YUM! hehehehehehehe

cormie · 17-09-2004 7:13pm #1

So I was down to $6 on this table after a $25 buy in. NL cash game on empire Gradually built it up to $105 (very nice in itself) and then this happened. I'm eirewoodchip.

I was accused of "cheating" because of my comments. It can be a vicious game alright.

***** Hand History for Game 957444548 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Friday, September 17, 13:48:25 EDT 2004
Table Table 14057 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 8: FatFingers ( $27.7 )
Seat 6: eirewoodchip ( $105.73 )
Seat 3: bakedog666 ( $0 )
Seat 1: jimmyj2 ( $20.25 )
Seat 5: chambers258 ( $26.38 )
Seat 10: vjarch ( $15 )
jimmyj2 posts small blind [$0.25].
chambers258 posts big blind [$0.5].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to eirewoodchip [ Ah 5s ]
eirewoodchip calls [$0.5].
FatFingers raises [$1].
jimmyj2 folds.
chambers258 calls [$0.5].
eirewoodchip calls [$0.5].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 5c, 8d ]
chambers258 checks.
eirewoodchip checks.
FatFingers checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5d ]
chambers258 checks.
eirewoodchip checks.
FatFingers bets [$0.5].
jimmyj2: needed that flop last time
chambers258 calls [$0.5].
eirewoodchip calls [$0.5].
** Dealing River ** [ Ad ]
chambers258 is all-In.
eirewoodchip: Ive a high K!
eirewoodchip: dont believe u
eirewoodchip calls [$24.88].
FatFingers calls [$24.88].
chambers258 shows [ Ac, As ] a full house, Aces full of fives.
eirewoodchip shows [ Ah, 5s ] four of a kind, fives.
FatFingers doesn't show [ Qd, Jd ] a flush, ace high.
eirewoodchip wins $77.39 from the main pot with four of a kind, fives.

Hectorjelly · 17-09-2004 11:34pm

cormie wrote:

I was accused of "cheating" because of my comments. It can be a vicious game alright.

If someone limped utg with A5o & called a raise with it Id accuse them of cheating as well.

cormie · 18-09-2004 4:02pm

6 players, pot odds, welcome to the weird world of poker. There are no rules to say what you should and shouldn't call with.

Iago · 18-09-2004 7:37pm

personally I would call it cheating as well, but if a player is dumb enough to beleive that you've declared your hand then they deserve to lost whatever money they have! I mean seriously, in what world would you declare you had nothing with players still to act...

cormie · 18-09-2004 8:10pm

Personally I feel the only way you can cheat in poker is to interfere with cards be it hiding one up your sleeve or taking a peak at your opponents hand. Anything else is just psychological phuckery. It's not all about cards.

Drakar · 18-09-2004 9:00pm

I agree. Pushing your chips in excitedly, is another form of communication, but it's not cheating if you do that when bluffing.

Hectorjelly · 19-09-2004 12:10am

cormie wrote:

6 players, pot odds, welcome to the weird world of poker. There are no rules to say what you should and shouldn't call with.

Wait, Is this a joke? If you want to make money/win then there are quite a few rules you should folllow.

bohsman · 19-09-2004 1:46am

Grea tourny today by the way one of the best tables ive ever played at.
Too tired to try an remember the lineup but there were 5 rocks then myself an Juan Pablo an the aggresive hector jelly

Game #88358373: Texas Hold'em No Limit (US$2/US$5) - 2004/09/18 - 03:47:26 (GMT)
Table "Upland" Seat 1 is the button.
Seat 1: Nabber (US$721.50 in chips)
Seat 2: oscarf (US$487 in chips)
Seat 3: kodiak (US$586.50 in chips)
Seat 4: MuckYOU (US$388 in chips)
Seat 5: Brummie1 (US$546 in chips)
Seat 6: Bora40 (US$424.50 in chips)
oscarf: posts small blind US$2
kodiak: posts big blind US$5

HOLE CARDS

dealt to oscarf [2h Ah]
MuckYOU: folds
Brummie1: folds
Bora40: raises to US$20
Nabber: calls US$20
oscarf: calls US$18
kodiak: calls US$15

FLOP

[4c 3h Th]
oscarf: checks
kodiak: bets US$15
Bora40: calls US$15
Nabber: calls US$15
oscarf: calls US$15

TURN

[4c 3h Th][5h]
oscarf: checks
kodiak: bets US$35
Bora40: folds
Nabber: calls US$35
oscarf: raises to US$80
kodiak: calls US$45
Nabber: calls US$45

RIVER

[4c 3h Th 5h][Ks]
oscarf: bets US$200
kodiak: calls US$200
Nabber: calls US$200

SHOW DOWN

oscarf: shows [2h Ah] (A Flush, Ace high)
kodiak: mucks hand
Nabber: shows [9h 7h] (A Flush, Ten high)
oscarf collected US$977 from Main pot

SUMMARY

Total pot US$980 Main pot US$977 | Rake US$3
Board [4c 3h Th 5h Ks]
Seat 1: Nabber (button) lost
Seat 2: oscarf (small blind) showed [2h Ah] and won (US$977) with A Flush, Ace high
Seat 3: kodiak (big blind) mucked
Seat 4: MuckYOU folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Brummie1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Bora40 folded on the Turn

cormie · 19-09-2004 3:42am

Hectorjelly wrote:

Wait, Is this a joke? If you want to make money/win then there are quite a few rules you should folllow.

Not quite. It's texas holdem remember.

DeVore · 19-09-2004 3:47pm

I have come to hate A5 or in fact any kicker up to about 8. I fnck them away usually. There are only two times when I'll play them.
When I'm on or near the button, no callers before me and Im well aware I'm on something of a semi-bluff!
When they are suited and the blinds are very low. the later is simply because Irish people over bet ridiculously as far as I can see. If I hit my flush/flush-draw the EV of A-small suited is large and its worth a limp. A raise wrecks those odds and I'd just throw it away then. On an active table I'll toss Ace small off-suit without a seconds thought.

DeV.

cormie · 19-09-2004 7:55pm

Do you think I was wrong to call the bb and then the re-raise?

henbane · 19-09-2004 8:23pm

cormie wrote:

Do you think I was wrong to call the bb and then the re-raise?

I reckon UTG is not a good place to call with A5o. 6 handed that puts you in middle position postflop. You're looking for two pair minimum and half the table are to act after you postflop.

As for calling the raise. What would you have done if you had hit an Ace? Even two pair at that stage is running a risk.

A5o is a hand that is going to get you in trouble. You hit the perfect flop. If you hadn't, I'm guessing you have enough sense not to chase with a paired Ace or middle/bottom pair into a raised pot. It's a waste of blinds that can be put to better use in other hands when you compare it to the amount of times you're going to hit that kind of miracle hand.

cormie · 19-09-2004 8:51pm

A5 six way is not actually that bad. There 12 cards out of 52 with 6 people in, chances are most of the other 3 aces will be in the 40 rather than the 10. Plus there is also the aspect of others folding their hands. The blind and the re-raise were hardly damaging my stack.

Plus.. its not all about hitting.

henbane · 19-09-2004 9:12pm

cormie wrote:

A5 six way is not actually that bad. There 12 cards out of 52 with 6 people in, chances are most of the other 3 aces will be in the 40 rather than the 10. Plus there is also the aspect of others folding their hands. The blind and the re-raise were hardly damaging my stack.

Whilst it's true that 6 handed makes it less likely that another Ace is out there, it's not short-handed enough to make it a smart play. If there's another Ace out, there's a very high possibility it has you dominated. If everyone else on the table takes your attitude, no Ace is going to end up in the muck preflop either.

As for damaging your stack. Any blinds leaking away from your stack is losing you equity in better hands than this. If your attitude is that limping in almost all circumstances is sensible, your stack will dwindle long before you start hitting these perfect flops. If I'd seen this hand, I would have happily sat down at the table hoping you would continue to play like this.

Plus.. its not all about hitting.

It's not all about hitting but if you're going to use that as justification for playing A5o UTG then why not play any two cards and see where you are postflop.

DeVore · 19-09-2004 9:14pm

Its not all about hitting but when its NOT you should be consciously aware that you are playing a bluff and act accordingly. In that case your cards are immaterial unless they happen to hit hard!

You have 3 aces remaining. randomly distributed between 50 cards unseen. Thats an average of 1 in 17 cards. You have 5 opponents, holding 10 cards. so I'd estimate about ~30% of the time someone else is holding an Ace. Of that 1/3rd of the time they will be holding a weaker or equal kicker so about 20% of the time you are playing into an ace with a better kicker. OW!
(I'm not very good at doing "normal distributions" in my head but that would be my gut feeling).

DeV.

cormie · 19-09-2004 9:37pm

so 80% of the time I'm right to call.

henbane · 19-09-2004 9:42pm

cormie wrote:

so 80% of the time I'm right to call.

If you choose to read it like that, I think I'll be getting an empire poker account soon.

cormie wrote:

NL cash game on empire Gradually built it up to $105 (very nice in itself) and then this happened. I'm eirewoodchip.

http://www.empirepoker.com/Downloads/1701957/EmpirePokerSetup.exe Would I be correct to say that your affiliate ID for empire is 1701957? Seems a bit sleazy to include your affiliate ID in a link on the board without saying you get a percentage of rake for poker.ie if I download the software through it? Or am I just being suspicious?

DeVore · 19-09-2004 9:49pm

80% of the time you may have the only ace at the table.

How exactly do you make this pay? Particularly how do you make this pay for the times when you lose to A6 or better? You will lose more then 4 times the blinds I bet too!

What do you do when an Ace doesnt come on the flop?
What do you do when it does and you are first to act?
What do you do when it does and you are bet at?
(serious questions!)

DeV.

henbane · 19-09-2004 9:53pm

DeVore wrote:

80% of the time you may have the only ace at the table.

How exactly do you make this pay? Particularly how do you make this pay for the times when you lose to A6 or better? You will lose more then 4 times the blinds I bet too!

What do you do when an Ace doesnt come on the flop?
What do you do when it does and you are first to act?
What do you do when it does and you are bet at?
(serious questions!)

I thought you were charging for lessons in the basics these days?

cormie · 19-09-2004 10:00pm

When such situations occur I will take into account the amount bet etc. As I said, it's not all about hitting.

You are correct Henbane but I don't see how it is "sleazy". Empire is simply hyperlinked to our id. Better for you to keep it in the Irish economy and what not;)

henbane · 19-09-2004 10:06pm

cormie wrote:

You are correct Henbane but I don't see how it is "sleazy". Empire is simply hyperlinked to our id. Better for you to keep it in the Irish economy and what not;)

I would class it as sleazy to include your affiliate ID without having the basic manners to advise people. I would have thought it was better not to give you or poker.ie anything on foot of that, thanks.

cormie · 19-09-2004 10:18pm

henbane wrote:

I would class it as sleazy to include your affiliate ID without having the basic manners to advise people. I would have thought it was better not to give you or poker.ie anything on foot of that, thanks.

I started this thread to tell people about the hand. Not to advertise poker.ie.

As "pimping" and other such methods are not looked well upon boards, I feel

"NL cash game on empire Gradually built it up"

would sound better than

"NL cash game on empire (click here to download empire poker now through poker.ie as we will get a percentage of the rake you would usually be giving 100% of to empire poker) Gradually built it up"

I do not see anything wrong with hyperlinking the word empire to empire poker.

henbane · 19-09-2004 10:29pm

cormie wrote:

I started this thread to tell people about the hand. Not to advertise poker.ie.

Yet you somehow managed to find a method to include a possible revenue for poker.ie?

As "pimping" and other such methods are not looked well upon boards, I feel

"NL cash game on empire Gradually built it up"

would sound better than

"NL cash game on empire (click here to download empire poker now through poker.ie as we will get a percentage of the rake you would usually be giving 100% of to empire poker) Gradually built it up"

So you know pimping/advertising/profiteering is not allowed but thought that it would be appropriate to include your affiliate ID?

I do not see anything wrong with hyperlinking the word empire to empire poker.

Nothing wrong with linking the word to empire poker but you didn't need to include your affiliate ID.

If you were so keen on including your affiliate ID and getting a percentage of the rake why not mention it in small writing at the end and let the rest of us decide if we felt like giving you a percentage of our rake. How about you pay for a hosted board like the rest of the people looking to make money off boards people and stop trying to leech off people who use the poker board?

cormie · 20-09-2004 6:54pm

henbane wrote:

Yet you somehow managed to find a method to include a possible revenue for poker.ie?
So you know pimping/advertising/profiteering is not allowed but thought that it would be appropriate to include your affiliate ID?
Nothing wrong with linking the word to empire poker but you didn't need to include your affiliate ID.

If you were so keen on including your affiliate ID and getting a percentage of the rake why not mention it in small writing at the end and let the rest of us decide if we felt like giving you a percentage of our rake. How about you pay for a hosted board like the rest of the people looking to make money off boards people and stop trying to leech off people who use the poker board?

I really don't see your argument. It's quite simple really. I hyperlinked the word empire, to empire poker through poker.ie. It's hardly pimping now is it? Your saying there is nothing wrong with linking to empire poker but you don't think I should have linked it through poker.ie? I really don't understand why you think this. Why would I link it to empire poker and not through poker.ie? I really don't understand why you are so offended by this and why you are getting so worked up about it. I am hardly trying to leech off forum users. If somebody is interested in downloading the app, they can simply click "empire". Yes I will get rake %, I don't see how that bothers you. I didn't stick it in anyones face or anything similar. Also, thank you for your suggestion, but I have already arranged for a "paid" board of my own. Thank you.

Hectorjelly · 20-09-2004 7:09pm

henbane wrote:

I reckon UTG is not a good place to call with A5o. 6 handed that puts you in middle position postflop. You're looking for two pair minimum and half the table are to act after you postflop.

As for calling the raise. What would you have done if you had hit an Ace? Even two pair at that stage is running a risk.

This is exactly right, the reason A5 is a crap hand is that you will almost never make money from someone calling down with a worse hand. In fact it will be you who will be making the second best hand repeatadly. You shouldnt be calling the blinds hoping to hit two pair, as you dont hit two pair often enough for this to be a worthwhile strategy. You cant make the nuts straight with this hand, and you arent going to be paid off with an A high 1 card flush.

If you are calling in order to bluff, then utg is definitely not the place you want to be.

cormie · 20-09-2004 7:31pm

Hectorjelly wrote:

This is exactly right, the reason A5 is a crap hand is that you will almost never make money from someone calling down with a worse hand. In fact it will be you who will be making the second best hand repeatadly. You shouldnt be calling the blinds hoping to hit two pair, as you dont hit two pair often enough for this to be a worthwhile strategy. You cant make the nuts straight with this hand, and you arent going to be paid off with an A high 1 card flush.

If you are calling in order to bluff, then utg is definitely not the place you want to be.

I disagree. I cannot say why;) but I do disagree. haha.

Hectorjelly · 20-09-2004 8:54pm

cormie wrote:

I disagree. I cannot say why;) but I do disagree. haha.

If anyone believes that then send me a pm.... I have a bridge I want to sell you

cormie · 20-09-2004 10:18pm

pm sent:)

DapperGent · 20-09-2004 11:22pm

cormie wrote:

I cannot say why;)

It doesn't matter why. You're wrong.

cormie · 20-09-2004 11:37pm

DapperGent wrote:

It doesn't matter why. You're wrong.

There's not really a definitive right and wrong in poker.

dangerman · 20-09-2004 11:56pm

There's not really a definitive right and wrong in poker.

Quite. That sounds like one of those things one of those newbies who calls your 5 times the big blind raise with 2 3 and cracks ur aces with a bizarro-world card on the river would say afterwords. Maybe you should be working on roulette.ie? :rolleyes:

YUM! hehehehehehehe

Comments