YUM! hehehehehehehe

cormie

dangerman wrote:

Quite. That sounds like one of those things one of those newbies who calls your 5 times the big blind raise with 2 3 and cracks ur aces with a bizarro-world card on the river would say afterwords. Maybe you should be working on roulette.ie? :rolleyes:

Maybe yeah.

Sure I'll give poker a chance. I like the colours on the carda and watching the dealers do the shuffles and stuff. Crazy.

Samba

Cormie, you are right, keep playing A5, give Kermit and Ms.Piggy my regards too.

I am not implying that you are a muppet, but that is muppet play and will land u in the ****s eventually.

I am going to ask this question again, do you want to make money online?

It's not a case of right or wrong it is a question of win/lose money.

If answer is yes, don't play A5o, not even on SB.

You got lucky, play A5o and come back here and truthfully tell us how many hands you won with it.

henbane

cormie wrote:

I really don't see your argument. It's quite simple really. I hyperlinked the word empire, to empire poker through poker.ie. It's hardly pimping now is it? Your saying there is nothing wrong with linking to empire poker but you don't think I should have linked it through poker.ie? I really don't understand why you think this. Why would I link it to empire poker and not through poker.ie? I really don't understand why you are so offended by this and why you are getting so worked up about it. I am hardly trying to leech off forum users. If somebody is interested in downloading the app, they can simply click "empire". Yes I will get rake %, I don't see how that bothers you. I didn't stick it in anyones face or anything similar. Also, thank you for your suggestion, but I have already arranged for a "paid" board of my own. Thank you.

You don't see my argument? You see nothing wrong with trying to make money off the people who visit this board? It's quite simple really. Not enough people go to poker.ie so you're under the impression that the people who read this poker board should be a source of revenue for you.

karlh

:eek: lol

DeVore

Ok Chalm down chalm down.

Link is edited to direct people to empire.com's front page. Cormie, direct pimpage is frowned on, a small image in your sig or a link in your sig is acceptible.
Can we get back to why A5 is a dodgy hand?

Is it dodgier then A6 which has no straight possibilities?
How would people play A5 on the button when its folded round to you?

DeV.

careca

DeVore wrote:

How would people play A5 on the button when its folded round to you?

DeV.

I would just call, as a raise could look like a blind steal and might be reraised, in which case you'd have to muck it. If an A flops and it got to me I would put in a medium bet but if a bet came around to me I would probably muck. I think what I'm trying to say is that I would certainly not muck them in the first place, regardless of how bad some people think this play is.

Hyzepher

Of course heads-up I would bet them ...

Hyzepher

Marq

On the button, folded around to me I will limp if it's suited. Yes, there is a good chance that you have the only ace, and if it flops you probably have the best hand, but, and this is important as far as your EV is concerned, if the ace flops, and you bet it, you're most likely either going to win the blinds right there, or get played back at by someone in the blinds who also has an ace, which much more often than not, has you out-kickered. So you're either winning a small pot or losing a larger one. I also try to remember cloutier's advice on playing marginal hands on the button: When everyone has folded around to the button, there's actually a much stronger chance that the blinds have a playable hand. A5 suited wants a flush draw, then it wants a flush, otherwise dump it unless you're sure you have the best hand. From any other position I dump it. Even in the small blind I'll pass it unless it's suited if there are lots of limpers (or ANY raisers) as if I hit, I'm most likely going to get into trouble, and lose money.

Better hands will come than ace-five, there's no reason to play it. Online ring games are so very different to tournaments, where in certain situations, A5 might be a playable (albeit not a desirable) hand. In cash games, particularly online, where you can play a few different tables at once, there's no reason not to wait for something better. Be patient, and try not to get involved in hands where you're likely to hit a second best hand if you hit anything at all.

I find it interesting that Cormie seems to think it's a good hand on the basis of one ridiculously lucky hand. If he were holding 5-2 he still would have had quads at the end and busted those aces out, but that still doesn't make 5-2 a good hand. The way I see it, Cormie won a big pot because he made two mistakes - limping utg with a sh1te hand and then calling a raise with the same sh1te hand. If you ignore the board and the result of the pot, you'll see that Cormie's Ace-Five was utterly dominated before the flop, the bullets are about a 90% favourite. The only thing that can help him here are two fives on the flop (just one and any decent player is going to be mucking his hand). He gets the two fives on the flop, and unless the case ace comes out on the turn or river, he has an unbeatable hand. Unbeatable hands pretty much play themselves - if anybody fails to extract all of an opponents money when their opponent as the aces and a full house and you have quads they should give up playing poker forever. But none of this luck makes playing ace five in the first place a good idea.

Having said that. The guy with the bullets is more of a fúcking eejit for giving pretty much everyone in the hand the implied odds to call before the flop. I always laugh when some idiot gets his aces cracked because he only made the minimum raise and let the maniacs in. I laugh a lot harder when I see people playing ace-five though - then I follow them around and take their money. Ho ho ho, it's a hoot.

DeVore

The table is 9-way but its folded round to you on the button. You have just the SB and BB left to act. How would you play A5?

I'd probably semi bluff a button steal and see where it goes. If I'm reraised then I'd call to scare him and since I have position I get to see the flop and the bet to me from him. Its a perfect place to pull the trigger again, but at that stage I might as well be playing 72o.

DeV.

Iago

DeVore wrote:

The table is 9-way but its folded round to you on the button. You have just the SB and BB left to act. How would you play A5?

I'd probably semi bluff a button steal and see where it goes. If I'm reraised then I'd call to scare him and since I have position I get to see the flop and the bet to me from him. Its a perfect place to pull the trigger again, but at that stage I might as well be playing 72o.

DeV.

Normally I would say that this should be played very aggresively, particularily if I'm playing against DeV (more to upset him than anything else..I love those flush draws!)

However since seeing the light and becoming "The new Rock"* I would probably limp in and see what the flpo brings, realistically I think you have to accept that in the majority of cases you'll be behind after the flop. Potentially you could hit enough to keep you throwing money at it without winning..I've given that up


[size=-12]*trademark pending[/size]

Hectorjelly

DeVore wrote:

The table is 9-way but its folded round to you on the button. You have just the SB and BB left to act. How would you play A5?

This question is meaningless without context, suffice to say if the blinds are small (as in most cash games) then there is no reason to play A5o anywhere. If its near the end of a tournament and your shortstacked, then A5 suddenly becomes good enough to go all in with!

Hectorjelly

careca wrote:

I would just call, as a raise could look like a blind steal and might be reraised, in which case you'd have to muck it. If an A flops and it got to me I would put in a medium bet but if a bet came around to me I would probably muck. I think what I'm trying to say is that I would certainly not muck them in the first place, regardless of how bad some people think this play is.

So if you hit top pair and somebody bets your going to muck your hand? Why not just muck it preflop?

Another probem with playing crap like this is, if you bet and get a caller you cant push push draws out of the way on the turn with a big bet as a lot of the time you will be behind to another A.

Lafortezza

Marq wrote:

I also try to remember cloutier's advice on playing marginal hands on the button: When everyone has folded around to the button, there's actually a much stronger chance that the blinds have a playable hand.

The *only* thing I'd disagree with in your post is this, I wouldn't say its much more likely, not even marginally more likely.There's a post on 2+2 forums about this I'll have a look for it, but it was concluded statistically that it negligibly more likely for the Blinds to have a better than average hand if everyone folds to you on the button.

Marq

the point here is about playing "marginal" hands on the button. simply because everyone else has folded doesn't make Ace-Five any better a hand. If the blinds have any sort of hand then they're at least likely to be on a par with Ace-Five, if not better than it. I suppose it doesn't really matter what the blinds have, the point is that Ace-rag is still a rubbish hand. A rubbish hand I went ALL IN with UNDER THE GUN at the final table of the free-roll on sunday after my jacks got busted by T-8. There you go. I'm a hypocrite.

proving my point from the post above- I went all in (needing to go to work anyway) with ace-five offsuit and found both a bigger ace and a pair of kings. It's a bollix hand, muck it.

cormie

Henbane, no I don't see anything wrong with making money from people who want to download empire.

Dev, ok if that's policy that is fine, I wasn't aware that such a thing was viewed as "pimping". Rules are rules.


A5:
Well as Dev (I know you all seem to trust his odd calculations) said, 80% of the time I'm the only one with an Ace. If an ace comes on the flop I'm much more likely to be the only one with an ace.

About it being online, people would be calling the same type of bets with cards like Q 4 etc just because they have a picture card. Most of the time I would imagine I am ahead pre flop.

There are many different possibilities. But as I have said, it's not all about hitting.

Hectorjelly

cormie wrote:

About it being online, people would be calling the same type of bets with cards like Q 4 etc just because they have a picture card. Most of the time I would imagine I am ahead pre flop.

This is pretty funny, there isnt much difference between A5 and Q4.

cormie

Hectorjelly wrote:

This is pretty funny, there isnt much difference between A5 and Q4.

Well if they hit a Q and you hit an A, you will get paid. And a5 is much better than Q4.

I just did this actually:

Pre flop
A5-23%
98-22%
22-18%
Q4-15%
K7-20%

all off suit.
A5 is favourite.

Above are typical hands people online call with.

Iago

cormie wrote:

Henbane, no I don't see anything wrong with making money from people who want to download empire.

Dev, ok if that's policy that is fine, I wasn't aware that such a thing was viewed as "pimping". Rules are rules.


A5:
Well as Dev (I know you all seem to trust his odd calculations) said, 80% of the time I'm the only one with an Ace. If an ace comes on the flop I'm much more likely to be the only one with an ace.

About it being online, people would be calling the same type of bets with cards like Q 4 etc just because they have a picture card. Most of the time I would imagine I am ahead pre flop.

There are many different possibilities. But as I have said, it's not all about hitting.

I think what DeV actually said was that on average 30% of the time someone else would have an A and out of that at least 20% of the time you were going to be behind to a higher kicker..

that's not counting the number of times that someone raising in this position will actually have a pair starting out, putting you even further behind, and the number of times that pair will flop a set either making you fold or worse again if you hit your A or even your A and kicker at the same time take all your chips...

as I said in another thread "even a broken watch is right twice a day" that doesn't mean that it's a good watch, no more than you winning a pot with this hand means it's a good hand. Anyway you won't be dissauded from your course so all I can say is I hope I find you or someone like you on every table I play

DapperGent

cormie wrote:

Henbane, no I don't see anything wrong with making money from people who want to download empire.

Dev, ok if that's policy that is fine, I wasn't aware that such a thing was viewed as "pimping". Rules are rules.

Jebus nobody cares if you have an affliate deal with empire or that you make money from it. They care that instead of linking to the main site of the empire poker you linked to your affliate page, a link to empire's main page (while totally unneccesary) just shows where you played the hand. A link directly to your affliate page is clearly an attempt to pimp. Why did you link to your own page rather than empire's main one unless it was an attempt to get people to download and make you money? This isn't rocket science, it's obvious and it's something you should have said "oops silly me" for from the moment it was pointed out rather than deliberately trying to obfuscate.

Who else on this board could have started a simple hand thread and have it turn into a bitching session about pimpage and a slagging match about tactics?

I've met you at the tables in real life and you don't seem like a bad skin at all but your skills at communicating with people online are woeful and you've been on this site long enough to have made some headway in improving them.

Hectorjelly

cormie wrote:

Well if they hit a Q and you hit an A, you will get paid. And a5 is much better than Q4.

I just did this actually:

Pre flop
A5-23%
98-22%
22-18%
Q4-15%
K7-20%

all off suit.
A5 is favourite.

Above are typical hands people online call with.

There is no typical hand online, I would think the typical hand at a 1c 2c limit game might be slightly different than at the 25 50 nl game that Spirit Rock currently crushes.

Do you really think you will make much money from someone with Q4 on a A Q x flop?

A more likely preflop combination would be

AJ 24.4
77 26.5
910s 28.10
45s 14.1
A5 6.3

Even if you leave out the AJ your odds are pretty slim

KQ 24.6
77 21.4
910s 22.5
45s 13.9
A5 17.4

You are behind everything bar the 45s.

cormie

So many people to reply to!

Iago, I was at the final table of the SA €50 tourny when you got €700 bills, I was in the last 4 when we decided to split it. The younger of the lot.

Rosso, Why I linked to my ID and not to empires main page is as obvious as it sounds yes. If people are interested in getting empire, they get it through poker.ie rather than all rake going to Empire. I don't see why people have a problem with that. The reason I didn't say "oops, silly me" is because I didn't realise it was classed as "pimping". I have been made aware of what pimping is and obide by the rules. Dev has pointed out that it is infact considered "pimping" and I'm not going to argue with him. But I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

Different tactics for different people. You're not a bad skin yourself, always thought you seemed pretty cool. Ahww:)


Ok there is no real way to know if your ahead pre flop or not. I think it was worth 0.5% of my stack at the prospects it could hold. and I then think it was worth another 0.5% of my stack givin that so many were in the hand.

DeVore

cormie wrote:

So many people to reply to!

Iago, I was at the final table of the SA €50 tourny when you got €700 bills, I was in the last 4 when we decided to split it. The younger of the lot.

Rosso, Why I linked to my ID and not to empires main page is as obvious as it sounds yes. If people are interested in getting empire, they get it through poker.ie rather than all rake going to Empire. I don't see why people have a problem with that. The reason I didn't say "oops, silly me" is because I didn't realise it was classed as "pimping". I have been made aware of what pimping is and obide by the rules. Dev has pointed out that it is infact considered "pimping" and I'm not going to argue with him. But I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

Different tactics for different people. You're not a bad skin yourself, always thought you seemed pretty cool. Ahww:)


Ok there is no real way to know if your ahead pre flop or not. I think it was worth 0.5% of my stack at the prospects it could hold. and I then think it was worth another 0.5% of my stack givin that so many were in the hand.

The affiliate part of this thread is over. Take it up on the "pimpage" thread if you must. Bans will follow since I've already warned about this.

Iago: The phrase is "Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day" and you stole it from me (albeit I stole it from Orbital).

Cormie: "Well as Dev (I know you all seem to trust his odd calculations) said, 80% of the time I'm the only one with an Ace. If an ace comes on the flop I'm much more likely to be the only one with an ace."

I presume you mean my odds calculations rather then my weird or unusual ones...
What I said was that I wasnt very good at doing Standard Deviations on a normal distribution in my head and that that was a guesstimate... turns out its not far off.
I was, however only calcing the odds of you being behind to an Ace better kicker.
I didnt include the split pot odds either (split pots are a lot more common when you play A-rag because the chances of both your rags not playing is high, particularly if the board pairs).

HJ: Yes, context is important. I meant to say decent stacked in the middle of a tournie etc...

DeV.

Hectorjelly

cormie wrote:

Ok there is no real way to know if your ahead pre flop or not. I think it was worth 0.5% of my stack at the prospects it could hold. and I then think it was worth another 0.5% of my stack givin that so many were in the hand.

You can make sure that you are normally ahead preflop by playing tighter than your opponents. This is the biggest advantage a good player has over a weaker one, the quality of the cards they are playing.

Your right about the second .5%

DeVore

A5 against 2 random hands turns out to win ~34% of the time.
Against 3 hands, ~25%
Against 4 hands ~20%
(are we seeing a pattern here?)
Obviously there is bluffing and reads to be considered, but in the cold light of stats, thats the horse you are riding on. Just about average.

I'll work out the odds of a second Ace 6-way and of the kicker being better 6-way during a slow period in work tomorrow. My gut says about 30% of the time with 20% as the prob of an ace AND a better kicker.

DeV.