Should the Army help the Gardai patrol our streets in order to tackle Crime?

monument

mycroft wrote:

Anyone else notice Omnicorp's posts are still basically poles, only y'know without the pole part anymore.

If you mean the boards equivalent of a tabloid making a so called ‘controversial’ non-issue or non-story into a huge thing, yes.

mycroft

monument wrote:

If you mean the boards equivalent of a tabloid making a so called ‘controversial’ non-issue or non-story into a huge thing, yes.

I was thinking more along the lines of both stupid and pointless, but yes you got the gist of it down.

Seriously they've no substance, don't argue the merits of either point of view, just sort of hang there.

As for the people who've graced this thread, while we may need more cops on the street, the army won't really prevent crime they'll merely diffuse potential public order situations.

Furthermore I doubt Omnicorp is old enough to remember how scary it is seeing miltary on the streets on northern ireland in real force

Boggle

mycroft wrote:

As for the people who've graced this thread, while we may need more cops on the street, the army won't really prevent crime they'll merely diffuse potential public order situations.

Well if a stupid suggestion was good enough to prevent some thugs from jumpin me on the way out of a disco then sound!!!! (public order - also a crime I may add)

Anyway lads, you shouldn't criticise people for floating suggestions on the board. I see plenty of references to the need for a heightened presence on the streets (particularly at night) and plenty of people bitchin about nothing being done, so I think its amazing that, when someone comes up with a constructive suggestion (right or wrong), they are so quick and so happy to jump all over it without even considering the topic properly.....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

omnicorp

Boggle wrote:

Well if a stupid suggestion was good enough to prevent some thugs from jumpin me on the way out of a disco then sound!!!! (public order - also a crime I may add)

Anyway lads, you shouldn't criticise people for floating suggestions on the board. I see plenty of references to the need for a heightened presence on the streets (particularly at night) and plenty of people bitchin about nothing being done, so I think its amazing that, when someone comes up with a constructive suggestion (right or wrong), they are so quick and so happy to jump all over it without even considering the topic properly.....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'm NOT talking about armed men in military uniform patrolling our streets, I'm talking about members of the army integrating Gardai training into their normal training and then, in times of peace, instead of doing nothing, they back up the Gardai, dress like them, have the same weapons as them.
I am NOT suggesting to do what they did in the North.

monument

Why not more just train more police? What makes you think that any one in the army, never mind the police, would agree?

You’re talking about an expensive, inefficient, and probably unachievable way of putting more police on the street. At the same time, your idea would take people away from the army where they are apparently needed.

marco murphy

FF should give more gardai as they said,thats all thats wanted.

mycroft

Should the Army help the Gardai patrol our streets in order to tackle Crime?

I'm NOT talking about armed men in military uniform patrolling our streets, I'm talking about members of the army integrating Gardai training into their normal training and then, in times of peace, instead of doing nothing, they back up the Gardai, dress like them, have the same weapons as them.
I am NOT suggesting to do what they did in the North.

And where EXACTLY do you say this in your orginal POST

If you're going to post this inane moronic comments you could at least expand on how you plan on this to work. There is nothing NOTHING in your orginal post about this plan, you just suggest that the army should compliment police, YOU MAKE NO REFERENCE to how it should work.

And you wonder why people ridicule your posts. Jesus...... :rolleyes:

sliabh

mycroft wrote:

Anyone else notice Omnicorp's posts are still basically poles, only y'know without the pole part anymore.

Yeah, and the quality of the questions are as lame as ever. They are about the level of a primary school civics class.

bonkey

<sigh>

I'm getting really tired of having to remind people how to follow the rules.

mycroft and sliabh - I'd suggest that you both re-read the charter before you find yourselves "victims" of it.

jc

sliabh

Apologies if I was out of line.

mycroft

My apologises for the tone but not the sentiment of my post

omnicorp

well, you can't train Gardai if there's NOBODY TO train.

monument

What do you mean there is nobody to train?

woody

Omni Corp you muppet do you honestly think the army do nothing but train, well pal your wrong get the sh1t out of your head and get real...


1. They give ATCP (Aid to the civil power) Cash escorts, prisoner escorts,explosive escorts and MSG (Mobile security Group )on the enitre border.

2. They are over streched over the world in a variety of hotspots and in about 16 countries.

3. The army provide soup kitchens in Dublin for the homeless and give them beds.

I could go on for ever.

The army are not the police and if you wanted the army to Police well implemment Marshall Law, but do not dare say they do nothing as they are with the cops the hardest working civil servants in Ireland.

Get your facts right or shut your mouth

sliabh

omnicorp wrote:

well, you can't train Gardai if there's NOBODY TO train.

THe biggest impediment to increasing Garda numbers that I have heard are cash and training facilities. The Government has said that they want 2000 new Gardaí but I belive there is a question mark about squeezing them into Templemore. It's felt that it would not be possible to train that many in the time frame they are looking at.

Even if it was a good idea to train the army to do this work there would be nowhere to train them.

And my two cents on this is that it's a pretty daft idea for a whole host of reasons, my personal favourite is: What sort of country (with a relatively low crime rate) feels it needs soldiers to enforce public order?

Answer: a miltary state

bonkey

One week ban for Woody for abuse.

jc

Corega

A person joins the Denfence Forces to train, and work as part of that organisation. If they wanted to police they would have joined the Gardaí in the first place.

In my opinion the only way the Denfence Forces in this country could be used as a supplement to policing is in situations such as the Abbeylara "siege", where a poorly trained, and unprepared Special Branch used anitquated tactics and weapons in a scenario that the Gardaí have never really catered for.

At the moment we have just over one hundred officers and personnel attached to the Army Ranger Wing, whose roles include counter-terrorism, V.I.P. protection, patrol of vital installations etc. Given their extensive training I believe the Ranger Wing could be used in conjuction with the Gardaí's Special Branch providing assistance on occasion for incidents such as Abbeylara, serious riot's and armed robberies.

That's the only way, in my opinion, that members of the Defence Forces could be used in a policing context.

On a different note perhaps members of the Army's Medcial Corps could be used to assist hospital staff on Friday and Saturday nights.

Rew

Corega wrote:

At the moment we have just over one hundred officers and personnel attached to the Army Ranger Wing, whose roles include counter-terrorism, V.I.P. protection, patrol of vital installations etc. Given their extensive training I believe the Ranger Wing could be used in conjuction with the Gardaí's Special Branch providing assistance on occasion for incidents such as Abbeylara, serious riot's and armed robberies.

Actually this already happens although no particular operation has ever been admited to publicly. They do train together on a regular basis and not just Special Branc and ERU but Drug Squad as well as far as i know.

The medic suggestion is intresting as practical eperience in a busy ER would be no harm for a medic but I personally dont know anything about what army medics get up to on a day to day basis.

sliabh

Rew wrote:

The medic suggestion is intresting as practical eperience in a busy ER would be no harm for a medic but I personally dont know anything about what army medics get up to on a day to day basis.

The nature of the injuries normally encountered and the training provided to army medics is quite different to that required by the civilian service in most cases. A bottle fight is a long way from a high velocity rifle wound.

Years ago I did see a news story talking about US military surgeons visiting hospitals in Belfast to learn about battle wounds and techniques for treating them. The reason being that many of the attacks there involved assault rifles and explosives with shrapnel injuries that they didn't see in the US. Gang bangers in the us tended to use hand guns or sub-machine guns with large calibre low velocity ammunition which are rarely encountered on a battlefield.

Sparks

I dunno sliabh - US field medics do get sent to LA hospitals for training in how to handle firearms-inflicted trauma. A bullet wound is a bullet wound, to the extent that a medic can help you (if you get hit with a .50 calibre shell and you can be patched up, the techniques learnt on treating .38 calibre wounds apply).

Rew

sliabh wrote:

The nature of the injuries normally encountered and the training provided to army medics is quite different to that required by the civilian service in most cases. A bottle fight is a long way from a high velocity rifle wound.

Years ago I did see a news story talking about US military surgeons visiting hospitals in Belfast to learn about battle wounds and techniques for treating them. The reason being that many of the attacks there involved assault rifles and explosives with shrapnel injuries that they didn't see in the US. Gang bangers in the us tended to use hand guns or sub-machine guns with large calibre low velocity ammunition which are rarely encountered on a battlefield.

On your first point thats not even close to being true. Army medics deal with all type of injurys from cuts, bruises, burns, broken bones and sprains to people being hit by APC's, shot by various waepons or blown up by others. Army medics work under a simlar circumstances to an ER/A&E as they dont know whats going to walk through the door. Gun shot wounds are rare in the Irish Army all the other injurys are alot more common.

Docs and Hospitals up North are experts in those kind of injurys as you said and are world leaders in knee surgery and reconstruction after all the knee cappings.

SAS medics are sent to major ER/A&E departments in the UK for hands on training. If it works for Brit Special Forces it must have some merit.

Rew

Sparks wrote:

I dunno sliabh - US field medics do get sent to LA hospitals for training in how to handle firearms-inflicted trauma. A bullet wound is a bullet wound, to the extent that a medic can help you (if you get hit with a .50 calibre shell and you can be patched up, the techniques learnt on treating .38 calibre wounds apply).

LOL i like the if bit, you would want to have some size of a dressing to cover the gapping hole a .50" left in sombody

sliabh

Sparks wrote:

I dunno sliabh - US field medics do get sent to LA hospitals for training in how to handle firearms-inflicted trauma. A bullet wound is a bullet wound, to the extent that a medic can help you (if you get hit with a .50 calibre shell and you can be patched up, the techniques learnt on treating .38 calibre wounds apply).

Ah, I didn't say they never visited LA. I am sure they visit there too. But the TV report was saying that years ago (before the US started two wars just so their medics could be better able to handle full battlefield casulties) the fancier stuff was relatively rare in the US so Belfast was a first world location to see it.

Sparks

Rew wrote:

LOL i like the if bit, you would want to have some size of a dressing to cover the gapping hole a .50" left in sombody

If you're hit by a .50 and there's a hole in you, and you're still breathing, odds are you could be saved. It's more when there isn't so much a hole as a missing limb or head that you're in trouble...

Rew

Sparks wrote:

If you're hit by a .50 and there's a hole in you, and you're still breathing, odds are you could be saved. It's more when there isn't so much a hole as a missing limb or head that you're in trouble...

LOL, very true!

omnicorp

yeah, but we're getting away from the topic.

Sparks

I thought the topic had been rather unanimously answered, no?

omnicorp

well, there are more people and why do people always think I'm wrong or crazy or evil?

well, there are more people and why do people always think I'm wrong or crazy or evil?

Dude, Don't worry abt it. I was thought to be the same when I first signed up (I was extremely Pro-Israeli, which wasn't well received by many here). Research your points (post supporting links), moderate your comments, and be selective in your starting threads, and you'll start loosing your bad rep.

Redleslie2

I'm surprised McDowell hasn't touted the idea of introducing a new paramilitary style force along the lines of France's CRS, who are without doubt the most thuggish looking coppers I've ever come across.