dangerous driving - update

damo

Had a lovely tuesday which began with my alarm clock sounding at 7.30 am, leaving my house in drumcondra at 8am and arriving in arklow (where i was due in court) at roughly 9.45 whcih was nice and early for my 10.30am summons. Being a person not prone to violence, theft, drugs offences or any other criminal acts i had naeivly invisioned walking into the courthouse at 10.30 and being dealt with by the judge swiftly and efficiently, however i was wrong. it was 12.30 am before court began and another two hours before i came before the judge. Thats four and a half hours of sitting on my ass waiting, surrounded on all sides by the dregs of arklows society, at one stage i felt id scream if i saw another greasy little knacker with a gold earring, white baseball cap, cheap tracksuit and a large scar going across his face. Finally at around 2.30 i was called only to stand before the judge for no more than 30 seconds for the case to be adjourned til october pending some garda report or some bollox.
Anyway in reply to all those who have cast me as the anti christ for my hideous crimes against humanity the road i was caught doing 99 on was the arklow bypass dual carriageway which is a straight two lane road approx 10km long, there are absolutley no traffic lights and no junctions on it at all, hence motorway except for the name. I know what i did was wrong im not trying to weasel my way out of anything and believe it or not i have well and truly learned my lesson and wouldent dream of driving like that again, all im hoping for is a judge to be able to see that im not any kind of trouble maker, have a good job, have no previous criminal record, am only 20 years old(absolutely not a boy racer) and did a very stupid thing....surely 5 penalty points, an endorsement that will sky-rocket my insurance and a 1000eur+ fine is enough punishment for my first crime? people deserve chances dont they? if he disqualifies me the first thing ill have to do when i leave the courthouse is ring my employer and say "its been nice working for you, however im now gonna have to work in a factory for the next year because i no longer have a driving licencse"

anyway fingers crossed and just for the record myself and my lawer decided early on that the claim of not being used to the car was a very bad idea.

mike65

The court system is no joke or rather it is a joke but not a funny one. I know that myself. I used that road and yep its a very good piece of carriagway, as you say no junctions or other obsticles. Perfect spot for rozzers with a speed gun though.

I know what i did was wrong im not trying to weasel my way out of anything and believe it or not i have well and truly learned my lesson and wouldent dream of driving like that again

That says all that needs to be said I think.

Mike.

The Muppet

I know that road well and have definitly broken the limit on it but I have never seen a speed trap on it. As you say its a good road and with a bit of luck the judge will take that into account when passing sentence. Best of luck with keeping you licence when you are up again.

unkel

damo wrote:

surely 5 penalty points, an endorsement that will sky-rocket my insurance and a 1000eur+ fine is enough punishment for my first crime?

Afaik that is the max you can get for dangerous driving, no way will you loose your license over this

One thing I don't understand and you will be able to clarify: were you just doing 99mph with no other traffic around you or was there more to it than that?

99mph on a very good quality and empty dual carriageway with no exits for miles ahead is not dangerous driving imho

damo

i was doing 99mph at roughly 8am so there were other cars around, but not many, rush hour hadnt quite begun

RicardoSmith

Let us know how it pans out.

Stark

very good quality and empty dual carriageway with no exits for miles ahead

In other words, easy pickings for gardaí looking to boost their coffers with some speeding fines

damo

yeah exactly, heaven forbid they might get up off their corrupt arses and arrest a few criminals, or stop the real dangerous drivers on the windy narrow country roads

John R

That road is exactly as you said a motorway in everything but name. it is a regular spot for fish-in-barrel shooting, particularly the downhill section where even those who obsessively stick to the limit can drift over.

Dan_B

Have you thought about the "Written copy" defence?
Under current legislation you are entitled to a written copy of the speed you where caught doing to prepare your case.
As some of the equipment the garda use to detect your speed are unable to give printouts the case will collapse.
This has been used quite successfully by a number of people including a solicitor in Cork.

Not condoning this sort of thing though, the best defence is don't get caught!!

Blitzkrieger

Adjourned - wtf? So they completly wasted your time? I ****ing hate that.

I was in court once for not showing my license at the garda station within 10 days. I waited through over three ****ing hours of scumbags getting light sentences after the time my case was supposed to be heard, just to hear the judge say : "dismissed". Assholes. Wouldn't have the courtesy to give you a phone call to save you wasting a whole day, and would charge you with contempt if you look at them funny.

The Clown Man

Dan_B wrote:

Have you thought about the "Written copy" defence?
Under current legislation you are entitled to a written copy of the speed you where caught doing to prepare your case.
As some of the equipment the garda use to detect your speed are unable to give printouts the case will collapse.
This has been used quite successfully by a number of people including a solicitor in Cork.

Not condoning this sort of thing though, the best defence is don't get caught!!

True. I hope your solicitor has checked this already. There must be some form of physical evidence to when, where and how you were caught speeding and a garda's notebook does not suffice.

Our man in Havana

I woudnt think that the judge in Arklow would go too mad on you. He is a fair and reasonable man. I suspect you will get away with the benefit of the probation act. IE you will get away with it, a slap on the wrist.

damo

i have to say ive never heard of that written copy thing, when the guard stopped me he showed me the speed gun clocked at 99....can you give me any more info? do i ring the guards and ask them for a written copy? do they have any way of printing information off a speed gun?

Our man in Havana

damo wrote:

i have to say ive never heard of that written copy thing, when the guard stopped me he showed me the speed gun clocked at 99....can you give me any more info? do i ring the guards and ask them for a written copy? do they have any way of printing information off a speed gun?

Thats the scam, they cant print anything off. You will be aquitted as they require written proof which they won't be able to supply.

secret_squirrel

the other pefectly legal defence in the UK as well is to ask for a certificate of calibration of the speed gun. Literally hundreds of speeding cases have been thrown out because they havent been able to prove their equipment has been checked recently.

Dont know if this is a workable defence over here though...

damo

interesting....im gonna ring my soliciter tomorrow and ask him some questions about it....im just curious as to why he may not have suggested it before hand, is it generally frowned upon by soliciters? hes a big shot local soliciter in arklow (although ive been quite unimpressed by his handling of things so far) so maybe he doesent want to be associated with such a defense? might not want to earn a bad rep amongst the local guards and judge?

Our man in Havana

damo wrote:

interesting....im gonna ring my soliciter tomorrow and ask him some questions about it....im just curious as to why he may not have suggested it before hand, is it generally frowned upon by soliciters? hes a big shot local soliciter in arklow (although ive been quite unimpressed by his handling of things so far) so maybe he doesent want to be associated with such a defense? might not want to earn a bad rep amongst the local guards and judge?

That is indeed always the case. I would defend my self if I was going to use such a radical defense.

Seth Brundle

secret_squirrel wrote:

the other pefectly legal defence in the UK as well is to ask for a certificate of calibration of the speed gun. Literally hundreds of speeding cases have been thrown out because they havent been able to prove their equipment has been checked recently.

Dont know if this is a workable defence over here though...

with that set up they have to prove that the equipment is up to scratch. Here you have to prove that it isn't!

seamus

kbannon wrote:

with that set up they have to prove that the equipment is up to scratch. Here you have to prove that it isn't!

Indeed. Legislation specifically says that it does not have to be proven that the speed detection equipment is properly calibrated.

That piece is linked from the other thread about receipts from the guns...

cleareyed

Have been in court several times in recent years for various things (not on trial I hasten to add) and I am surprised by judges. District Justices are an idiosyncratic lot and like to rule the roost in their court. They seem to me to be keeping a weather eye on trends in society: there has been a noted leniency toward offences which ten or twenty years ago would have attracted severe punishment. In that light I think speeding is the offence du jour...you could be seen as the real baddie there. The judge will be looking at guys with baseball caps and earrings for years to come and he has to look out for himself. It might be the easy option to hammer you and know he'll never see you again...it will balance up in the newspaper reports of the day's sitting; you know, suspended sentences for local baseball caps and nice big fine for the real scumbag i.e. you the speeding motorist. If he likes/golfs with your solicitor you might do ok though.

Seth Brundle

I guess it is a case of being guilty until proven innocent!

the_syco

Doing 99 on the road? May I ask why? In a rush? Late for work?

And one last question; was there chicken wire, or metal barrier between you and oncoming traffic? If its the former, hope you get a big fine. Why? Because if it was wet, you'd be, or should I say the other guy, would be f*cked if you slipped on the middle grass verge...!

unkel

the_syco wrote:

Doing 99 on the road? May I ask why? In a rush? Late for work?

See previous thread locked by mike65 here

And tbh, no dual carriageway should have chicken wire medians, it would be a right joke if it weren't for the disasterous consequences. Remember the boy racers in their toyota starlet or something crashing through the wire on the M50 and killing a priest

the_syco

unkel wrote:

See previous thread locked by mike65 here

And tbh, no dual carriageway should have chicken wire medians, it would be a right joke if it weren't for the disasterous consequences. Remember the boy racers in their toyota starlet or something crashing through the wire on the M50 and killing a priest

Its sad to say, but you were doing 99 in a brand new car... The judge may see you as another boy-racer, doing about 100 in his new car. Mentioning the new car may not give you any brownie points. Best advice I can give you is to see if you went through different speeding zones (anyone that goes on the Lucan bypass will know what I mean), and also see if they had KPH or MPH signs. You mey get away if one of them says something close to 99.

Still hope you get fined, tho. All speeders should.

Victor

Dan_B wrote:

Have you thought about the "Written copy" defence?

Not sure if it applies as the charge is dangerous driving, not speeding, as such.

Boggle

unkel wrote:

And tbh, no dual carriageway should have chicken wire medians, it would be a right joke if it weren't for the disasterous consequences. Remember the boy racers in their toyota starlet or something crashing through the wire on the M50 and killing a priest

As a matter of interest, what would happen a biker if he was ever knocked off his bike and flew into this? Would he not e cut to ribbons??

victor wrote:

Not sure if it applies as the charge is dangerous driving, not speeding, as such.

Its dangerous driving because he was going 99mph, no other reason. If they cant prove (written copy) the speed he was doing then its not dangerous driving.

Seth Brundle

Boggle wrote:

As a matter of interest, what would happen a biker if he was ever knocked off his bike and flew into this? Would he not e cut to ribbons??

I would worry nore about the new cheese wire barriers the NRA are installing

secret_squirrel

kbannon wrote:

with that set up they have to prove that the equipment is up to scratch. Here you have to prove that it isn't!

Jeez talk about napoleonic justice - so there's an assumption of guilt on your part right from the start?

And I presume you cant request said speed gun for getting the calibration checked at your own expense?

Realistically that means there is absolutely no way to prove that the Guards havent got a gun that is deliberately set to read higher than true then. Fascists!

Canis Lupus

im shocked, surely yur not suggesting gardai are in any way corrupt and would do such a thing???

Osku-82

The law applies to everyone. If you do 99, you will be punished. It doesn't matter where you do. I hope your fine will increase. How do you know if something went wrong in that speed? You can't be sure about that in open traffic. That's why there's closed traffic for all you teen or inexperienced drivers with "fast" BMW's or Golf GTis... This thing you did is very serious, this kind of driving leads to many deaths. But the worst thing is when a rich kid destroys a fancy car, like a Porsche or an Audi! :mad: