Sony NW-DH1 vs IPOD ?

Placebo

smallest 20gb player. EVER, to date. Litreally 30 hours battery life ! even when messing around with the light on ! weighs much less than ipod.
Dream come true ?

No, it converts the format you upload to ARTC , sound quality is apprently good but the conversion ? pain ? slowness.

i read the review here
http://www.the-gadgeteer.com/20gb-sony-walkman-review.html

good review, he seems to be happy with it. I wanna get something soon but i dont know what, this sony one looks good, battery life being a great pro.
Ipods battery is pissy, 8 hrs ? friends say youd get around an hour if you were to mess around on it with the backlight on ! they own ipods.

ipod mini = weight = 3.6
Sony nw dh1 = weight = 3.9

dont really want to get the other 20gb ipods, weigh 5.6 ounces ! but have a 12 hour battery life.

Ive looked at iriver, it looks big and bulky !
Only main issue with this new sony piece is the conversion ! ive read in the past that their conersion software is usually terrible and slow etc.

Bri

We were just discussing this (sorta): http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=187591

I have an iPod (3G) and I have to say that I'd rather (in theory anyway) sit around a little longer converting for a machine that actually has a proper battery. No point having a 'portable' player if it dies as you walk to the train station!

Maybe you can tell me what you'd think about the Sony HD vs. the Sony Hi-MDs?

Placebo

Bri wrote:

We were just discussing this (sorta): http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=187591

I have an iPod (3G) and I have to say that I'd rather (in theory anyway) sit around a little longer converting for a machine that actually has a proper battery. No point having a 'portable' player if it dies as you walk to the train station!

Maybe you can tell me what you'd think about the Sony HD vs. the Sony Hi-MDs?

i just read that, i think i will end up going with this new HD, due to the fact it sound and looks like a better machine, this conversion looks like aload of balls though, i hope their soft has ripping cd to ARTC. I always hated Sonic Stage.

Sony HD vs Sony Hi Md.

Ive never heard of "HI" MDs but i just checked up on it ! impressive -in an out dated way ! rather than changing discs etc id like to have it 1 please. As someone mentioned in your thread, the compression is basically the same and having your music on a hard drive would be believed to be less compressed than on a certain disc ? either way im not sure if you can transfer your music back to your pc.
Sony are asking to flunk with this conversion crap, honestly, drag drop mp3, quick transfer end. I guess this will take as long as transfering a song over NETMD, mind you thats a long time considering you have 20 gb.

Hmmmmm :rolleyes:

Bri

Cheers for the feedback. I've actually decided to just stick with the iPod (once I get the appropriate cable to update my songs!) and wait to see one of these Hi-MDs my friend just ordered. It only cost him 150eu though which is pretty impressive (if it arrives )

Personnally the iRiver seems to be the least corporate (i.e. annoying to use) and most powerful. At least the new 4G iPods are cheaper than the 3G and have better (!) battery life.

Good luck!

P.S. I've never used the Sony HD player but the remote looks the same as one I bought recently and it's kinda annoying. Too chunky because they put too many features on it! Annoying if you have to clip it close to your neck. But sure I guess the iPod remote sucks too so there ya go

Placebo

thanks, iriver = just seems abit bulky and the new ipods are heavy ! 5.6 ounces !? its a tossup betweem the mini and sony hd for me and apprently unless you have the new 4g the battery is piss poor, not exactly even 8 hours.
Might do a bit more research on how long it takes to convert to ARTC.

thanks

Bri

Placebo wrote:

apprently unless you have the new 4g the battery is piss poor, not exactly even 8 hours.

Well take it from me that unless you buy the 4G your condeming yourself to even less battery than they print. I look after my batteries as best I can (it's hard when they're so limited to begin with) and yet I get no more than 3-4 hours on my 15GB iPod...

I've more to read on the ATRAC/ATRACplus quality but if it's ok couldn't you spend a weekend converting your collection (presumably already ripped?) and after that, the odd rip wouldn't be the end of the world now would it?

ZENER

Er . . that's ATRAC - Adaptive TRansform Acoustic Coding !!

http://www.minidisc.org/aes_atrac.html for more info.

ARTC = Aer Rianta Technical Consultants !

There was a Sony REP on NT106 a couple of months ago waxing lyrical about Sony's new player, initially I thought it was great. That was until he mentioned that it only directly supported ATRAC compression. The thread BRI linked to highlighted the pitfalls with the format. Technically speaking it should offer superior quality over MP3 due to its 5:1 compression ratio compared to 11:1 for 128Kbps (CD Quality !?) MP3.

As it's highly unlikely we will ever see ATRAC files available for download on the 'net you are left with 2 choices.

1. Suffer the conversion from MP3 to ATRAC both interms of time taken and the resulting poorer quality.

or

2. Don't bother with downloaded music at all - buy CD's and convert them directly using ATRAC compression.

In my opinion option 2 defeats the purpose for buying a player of this type - freely (read illegally) downloading music or using the many online music stores e.g. iTunes Music Store. Either way you have to convert.

I think Sony will realise they are not going to take over the world with ATRAC and will relent and include MP3 in the players spec - albeit at a price premium to the consumer - watch this space !!

ZEN

Placebo

oops

ATRAC* sorry.
so it does reduce quality when converting mp3 to ATRC ? (how lossy are we speaking*)balls.
I dont know, i have broadband, i dont download much but there would be an odd album not available here or some rare beside tracks, remixes.

Sony nearly had us

But the weight and the size + battery = great bonus
conversion and price = let down.

rabbitinlights

The sony looks like a winner, Apart from the fact that the 80-90 GB worth of music on my Computer are MP3's, and there is no way in the world im gonna Convert all that just for sony, I get about 6-7 hours from my 3rd gen 30Gb so im gonna stick with apple, i bought a NetMD a few years back hoping for a crack to let me use MP3's instead of Atrac, but its impossible, so i just gave it to my girlfriend and even she's just after geting a 4th gen ipod............ Sorry Sony very close but not quite, just give up and let us Use MP3's on it, you will sell millions!

Sean

Bri

Has anyone actually converted the files with the (new?) software from Sony?

How long is 1 album and how tedious is the process?

Ciaran500

I was listening to some ATRAC conversions and on its lowest quality its it totaly unacceptable but on its highest setting its ok but theres a noticible difference from 160kps ogg. I was very dissapointed and sold my Minidisc soon after that.

Bri

Really? That bad? I'm not an ogg user so how would that compare with a 192mp3?

Can you point me in the right direction to read up on OGG?

Thanks.

Chalk

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/23/sony_supports_mp3/

shocking news just in
in an effort to actually make there portable music player business profitable , sony will be introducing native mp3 support

Bri

Wish they'd hurry the hell up!

Chalk

Bri wrote:

Really? That bad? I'm not an ogg user so how would that compare with a 192mp3?

Can you point me in the right direction to read up on OGG?

Thanks.

http://www.vorbis.com/

Bri

Thanking you.

Bateman

Going to be buying an iPod soon, and was wondering that are you really losing out that much by not getting the cover and dock bundled with the 4G model. Obviously a cover is a good idea, because I know it scratches like a bastard, but what does the dock do? Is it merely a case of having the iPod lying on it's back when charging/uploading, rather than having it standing to attention?

Placebo

Chalk wrote:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/23/sony_supports_mp3/

shocking news just in
in an effort to actually make there portable music player business profitable , sony will be introducing native mp3 support

**** it, im getting an ipod.

Bri

Bateman wrote:

Going to be buying an iPod soon, and was wondering that are you really losing out that much by not getting the cover and dock bundled with the 4G model. Obviously a cover is a good idea, because I know it scratches like a bastard, but what does the dock do? Is it merely a case of having the iPod lying on it's back when charging/uploading, rather than having it standing to attention?

I've a 3G and the dock came with it. Handy for charging sure but the easiet thing about it is the line out which can be left setup for your room. Otherwise not much to worry about!
:eek:

Thumper Long

for all your ATRAC haters but sony lovers, the hush hush word on the street is that Sony are to ditch ATRAC completely in the new year due to their eventual realisation that a proprietry standard has no place in the current market with ogg etc being freely available and of course the freely available itunes with AAC support. And also apparently Apple told sony to go **** themselves as they tried to join forces in the digital music market as they tried to sell them ATRAC for use on the iTunes website with a hope that it would be incorporated into the ipod through a software update. this came direct from a sony board meeting, they really are fools.

therecklessone

I love Sony products, but unless they adopt mp3 very quickly I'll be buying an iRiver or Creative player next.

I'm holding on to my NetMD (transfered my first mp3s onto it tonight, wasn't a bad transfer rate but was using RealOne rather than SonicStage) cos it will be handy to bring on my way to the pub, i.e. cheap enough to not be worried about losing when blind drunk. Other than that I'm moving on.

Placebo

how much does the quality decrease by when upload an mp3 onto this new sony hd,? i dont understand these ratio terms,, cant be too bad ? noticable ?

Bri

Read this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=187591 - it should explain.

But from what I've been told - basically MP3s are already compressed a fair amount (leaving out figures). So if Sony make you convert the file to another format it's compressing it again. Sony's compression works by taking out the inaudable higher and lower sounds to save space. Therefore if you have an mp3 from Kazaa (i.e. not ripped at huge quality) it's already compressing the audible music, so when Sony makes you do it again before you can it to the HD - there's no inaudible parts to compress, just the music quality!

Feel free to correct me on that all you like.

P.S. ATRAC's compression options are kinda limited too, and you can't have Variable BR so that's more limited again.

Placebo

ok thanks man, was just giving sony another chance, hell, going to order the new 4g, 20gb ipod today. Not sure if i will get the remote.

Bri

The remote is handy but if it's the same as the 3G it's badly designed and limited. If you used one before it's nice to have cos you could have your entire HD on shuffle and producing an iPod every 5 secs to change track is irritating!

Beware the battery limitations (however improved!)

ZENER

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9128G/A

I have one of the above here unused if you do decide to buy an iPod you are welcome to it.

ZEN

Bri

Oh just remembered that the iPod to remote part of the cable is stupidly designed to stick straight up out of the player. This way your clothes, etc. bend the cable and eventually you lose quality. I've replaced mine twice under guarantee and now have to wear it differently (off the belt). Apparantly it's so common Apple don't even question it and send it out straight away. I actually rang them just before my warranty was up and said it happened again so I won't have to pay loads for to replace a crap part of the product.

Placebo

ZENER wrote:

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M9128G/A

I have one of the above here unused if you do decide to buy an iPod you are welcome to it.

ZEN

really ? how much, thanks

Bri = u lose quality of what ?? the sound ? what if you turn your ipod the other way around ,... in your pocket.

Bri

Sorry that wasn't very clear. The stereo connection will get worn down and you'll end up with crackling, eventually leading to properly losing stereo and, I suppose, no music!

I keep mine in my pocket now (clothes permitting) because it protects the cabling sticking straight up out of the top of the iPod. Turning it on its head (if thats what you mean?) would only make it worse. I'm just saying be careful how you treat the weak spot of the cable!

Placebo

i know what you mean thanks for the head up was talking to a friend and discussing how the mini ipod also have only 8hrs and would merely last 2-3 hrs for me since i change songs alot and fiddle around non stop and that is why i was going for the new 4G but he just told me that, thats not the case with the minis, the last longer than 3G's ? ne one aware of this ?
because im looking for something light, rather 3.6 than 5.6 ounces.

thanks

ZENER

Placebo wrote:

really ? how much, thanks

As I said Placebo you are welcome to it - no charge just let me know if you buy the iPod and I'll send it to ya !!

ZEN