"Irish Independant" letters do it again. Sexist or wha' !

Sleipnir

"We'll Print Anything you want, even you Oddball!"

Come on ys feminist ninnies, get your pens out!


Sir - We should welcome the EU directive that the lower motor-insurance premiums offered to women should be withdrawn (World News). Presumably this benefit afforded to women drivers was predicated on the fact that they have fewer accidents than men.

What has been ignored is that women cause more accidents than their male counterparts, through their general indecision, unpredictability, poor anticipation and slow reactions.
Alan Healy,
Collins Avenue, Dublin 9

narommy

Who cares, really????

Feminism!!! We should have manism, or whatever. All the generalisations that are made about men are scandalous. But we don't care. Get on with life. The same would apply to some racism, once it is not abusive.


Btw, us poor men can't win on the roads

ShiverinEskimo

narommy wrote:

Btw, us poor men can't win on the roads

I love the way you snuck that in at the end.

I agree with you though.

My uncle ahas one son who just passed his driving test and a wife who has never been behind the wheel of a car in her life.

He priced Insurance: Son: €2100 tpft
Wife: €30 fully comp.

My Uncles response: Damn you, I know who i'd rather have behind the wheel of a car anyday!!

I just moved home from england where myself and the gf paid 590 sterling fully comp for both of us.
Now i'm home I am unable to get insured on our car because they want 3000 for me. 22, full clean license, 1993 Rover Mini.
Makes me sick....

stevenmu

Has anybody else noticed how the huge rises in car accidents has coincided with similar increases in the percentage of female drivers on the roads ? It's as unfair to say that all women are bad drivers as it is that I have to pay huge insurance because of all the boy racers out there but it's worth thinking about all the same.

seamus

I've figured a mantra for it.

Bad Drivers who are male are arrogant and pushy, while still being technically competent and intelligently observant.

Bad drivers who are female are just awful drivers.

Maximilian

I once saw a woman parallel park a Ferrari. Incredible!!

The Corinthian

My understanding is that women do in fact have more accidents, however these tend to be less severe than those that men have, and thus overall cheaper to cover. Of course, this is just hearsay, so don’t take my word on it.

Of course, if someone believes that there should be equality between the sexes, that costs and incomes should be treated equally, then preferential treatment based upon gender, such as this, should be abolished regardless of which gender is prone to more or more expensive accidents.

luckat

stevenmu wrote:

Has anybody else noticed how the huge rises in car accidents has coincided with similar increases in the percentage of female drivers on the roads ? It's as unfair to say that all women are bad drivers as it is that I have to pay huge insurance because of all the boy racers out there but it's worth thinking about all the same.

Thought about it, Steven. I think the accidents were caused by all the boys turning round to scream "stupid bitch!" at women and turning around to say: "EEEEEEEEEKKKKKK" as they crashed.

ShiverinEskimo

Flipside to luckat's:

All the really fit girels walking along looking great, you turn, you say something like "Jaaaaysus" or "Giver her one" and look back around to be staring at a close up of the rear axle of the lorry you thought wasn't stopped.
Damn fine women...you know our weaknesses and you exploit them so so well.

dudara

I honestly think that your gender doesn't come into how good or bad a driver you are. There are plenty of unobservant, flighty, stupid, inconsiderate people of both sexes out there.

What I find amazing is that they published the authors street at the end of the letter. I'd nearly head along there tonight to cook some marshmallows at the bonfire that once was his house!

pickarooney

Good luck, Collins Avenue is about 18 miles long.

Ok that's a slight exaggeration and you may be able to spot it from the flames.

Not angry e-mails, mind.

Flukey

Feminists are always arguing for equality and that they should be treated exactly the same as men, but, as in lots of cases, this is one of the cases where equality means being different. We get women arguing that they should be allowed in golf clubs or mens clubs because they should be allowed in the same place as men, but once they get in there they want their own toilets on the grounds that they shouldn't have to go into the place as men! So maybe, in the interests of equality that they fight so strongly for, women should pay the same car insurance as men. Instead of thinking how many accidents men and women cause, it should be how many accidents people cause as men and women are equal.

Sleipnir

The only problem I can see is that man are expecting that the insurance companies will lower their premiums to that of women's.
More likely is that womens' premiums will probably increase to the current level of men's premiums.

Flukey

Well that goes without saying. Even if they did reduce prices to the rate that women pay you are still being totally ripped off. I don't drive and while there are a lot of drawbacks, I save an absolute fortune for my travel, compared to all the expenses of running a car.

Calibos

Anyone read the papers today in relation to the fatal car crash where the family of the victim in the other car forgave the woman driver and hugged her!

She was on an N road down the country and thought she was on a dual carriageway and was driving in the 'fast' lane....before plowing head on into an oncoming car. FFS did she not notice the lack of a median and the lack of the other two lanes on the other side of the non existant median.

We have to share the roads with these morons! Most women drivers are ok but there seem to be a higher percentage of moronic women drivers than men. The only other demographic capable of making the same type of mistake as this woman seems to be the over 70's. I can't imagine a bloke evet making this kind of mistake, although our gender is capable of many other types of moronic driving behaviour.

I just know that if I am ever fatally injured in a car crash, my last words to the paramedic when he asks, "What happened son??", before I expire will be, "...ARRGhh Gurgle.....FU€KING...cough...WOMEN.....DRIVERS.....wheez ummph...ahhhhhh........"

Tommy Vercetti

I'm not even gonna start making a contribution here, I will sum it up with

men+cars=
women+cars= :rolleyes:

stay in the friggin kitchen playing with makeup and cakes you weirdos

jill_valentine

FFS...It's not about feminism, lads, sorry. It's about car culture. How many girls get body kits, and tinted windows, and bloody furry dice? Blokes tend to be more competitive about their cars, and aggressive when they drive, because of the traditional Boy+Car=Alpha Male thing that starts way back in 5th year. When I get a lift with my mother, I have to plan 3 hours in advance. If I get a lift with my dad, I sit into the car knowing I'm taking my damn life in my hands... he drives like he has something to prove. But, if they'd both started off driving in an environment where Woman=Crap Driver, Man= THE BEST DRIVER EVER! wasn't the thinking it might be different.

So, the day I can sit into a blokes car and know for a fact that I am just as not likely to end up painted around a telegraph pole as I would be if it was a bird, is the day I'll happily pay equal insurance. Sure, it's not fair to guys, but insurance isn't fair. (I just got a quote for 7,000 euro for bog standard motorbike insurance...)


"Wimmen! Noo your limmits!"

seamus

jill_valentine wrote:

How many girls get body kits, and tinted windows, and bloody furry dice?

A hell of a lot more nowadays, and they have even worse taste than the men (I never thought that was possible).

From experience, young women drivers are starting to drive faster and more dangerously than young men.

jill_valentine

Yeah, and maybe some day statistically we'll kill as many people as guy drivers do. But we've got a little bit of catching up to do before that happens.


So whats the arguement at the minute, are we driving too cautiously or too recklessly?

jesus_thats_gre

You women are becoming more like young men all the time.. Computer games and footie and no longer just for fellas anymore.. Young girls know their cars quite well and are more than capable of "doing it up" just like the boys do.

Fellas tend to be better drivers but in general seem to drive faster, thus are involved in more severe accidents. Girls tend to be worse"r" on the road but drive slowly so the accidents they are involved in are only minor. Pretty mush as Seamus said so..

If we could get the stats, I would be fairly confident that women would be the cause of considerably more accidents in urban areas than men, while men would probably pip it on national roads or motorways.

Boggle

All a load of balls..... (bearings)

Remember reading somewhere that while men do have more fatal car crashes, they also tend to do a hell of a lot more mileage. Of course the ins companies deemed this not relevant at the time. Handy eh? By the way outside of suicide hours (pissed drunk a fter a disco), when is the last time you saw a boy racer (not a civic-kid, someone who actually spends money on his car) wrapped around a lamppost?

And why the hell should all safe male drivers be paying for the few muppets who cant drive their daddy's car... I'm driving 8 years w no speeding tickets, no crashes and I'm still treated as a lunatic!

jesus_thats_gre

By the way, why do insurance companies not have to release the statistical information that they base the difference between the premiums for men and women.

Interetsting theory.. They are just using this as an excuse, the real reason for it is that there are far more men on the road than women and they know that young men would be far more willing to pay a high premium while young women would be willing to just do without the car..

Boggle

well any lad working as an apprentice probably doesn't get the choice...

jill_valentine

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

By the way, why do insurance companies not have to release the statistical information that they base the difference between the premiums for men and women.

Interetsting theory.. They are just using this as an excuse, the real reason for it is that there are far more men on the road than women and they know that young men would be far more willing to pay a high premium while young women would be willing to just do without the car..

It's a good point...

"Handy eh? By the way outside of suicide hours (pissed drunk a fter a disco), when is the last time you saw a boy racer (not a civic-kid, someone who actually spends money on his car) wrapped around a lamppost?"

In the last two years there have been four fatal or very nearly fatal car accidents within shouting distance of my house. All four involved young male drivers, two in modded cars. But, in fairness, I live in the country, so maybe that supports Jesus_Thats_Gre's theory...

Boggle

Yup, conclusive proof there. It's funny though - the brothers been a fireman 5 years and while he's cut prob over a hundred people out of cars he only cut his second boy-racer out a few weeks back.... But you'r probably right.

jill_valentine

Is your brother in Limerick town...? My dad's a fireman in a fairly rural area, and he gets mainly Boy Racer Wannabees and crazy van driving Deliverance rejects...

gom

I'm not going to stand on my soap box and have a sterotypical rant.
The fact is stateing your sex on an insurance form means that you will pay more or less depending on what sex you are.

In the case of Health Insurance:
Females pay much more for cover than males as females generally fall ill and claim more from their Health Insurer than males.

In the case of Car Insurance:
Males pay much more for cover than females as Males generally end up making the claims(if 3rd party cover its their fault, if comprehensive it was messy).

No thats not just sexual discriminiation. Its Generalisation on a mass scale and it doesn't take individuals into account. Just your peers. This prejudice is a keen to charging giving gardai the right to stop and search black people on the street as they may be more statistically inclined to committ a crime or be an illegal immigrant.

I don't just think that Men and Women should be treated equally on insurance. I think insurance companies should redirect their assesments to how risky a person is based on the history of that person. Not on the general catagory they fit into.
e.g. Just cause I'm from south dublin and attend doesn't make me a wealthy middle class posh git...

Prejudice has the power to destroy our society. Rise above the Feminism critics and just look at it in pure prejudice basis...

gom

The older you are more likely to get sick due to old age and need medical care so should they pay more PRSI as a result?

Fat people are more likely to need medical treatment for heart disease so should it be possible for insurance companies to bar fat people from getting health insurance on the grounds of their wieght?

gom

Should a Muslim be charged higher Life Assurance than a Christian as Muslims are expected to go to Mecca once in their lifes where it is possible he/she will die in a crowd crush???

Should a Gay man pay more PAYE as a result of the extremely unlikely event of him becoming pregenent. Therefore he will not contribute offspring to society and in turn will deprive the exchequer of future taxes???


Keep them coming

jill_valentine

Insurance is based on probability. The assessors can't follow you around for a 6 month trial period, and get to know your favourite colour before they set a premium. They have to use a profile they've already built up from prexisting statistics. I'm not saying it's a perfect system, I'm saying that as yet it remains the most workable from the insurance companies' point of view and from the Governments. It's not the same as the Gardai stopping somebody based on colour - that's a civil liberty issue as opposed to insurance, where the company can argue a take it or leave it attitude. If there was a more credible sense of competition, maybe that would work better for us...

Boggle

Gom, good points well delivered (the first one anyway - got dizzy after that!!!)

Jill, my brothers based in clonmel so its a mixture of townies and country people(excuse the term) that he'd encounter.

[QUOTE-jill_valentine]Insurance is based on probability.[/QUOTE]
Its more about what they reckon they can get away with. They back this up with stats but the problem is those stats are incomplete and skewed to say pretty much what they would like it to say. Believe me, those same stats could be twisted to say pretty much anything they want them to depending on what factors they choose to include or remove and what questions they ask.

You say its the most workable system - why? If we're going for an accurate representation of peers then why dont we as more questions like education, career, wages, working patterns, colour, religion, sexual orientation, garda records, annual mileage etc... These questions might give more of an insight into who actually ends up in a ditch rather than the simplistic male/female branding currently in operation. And it would also be a useful start if the gardai actually started investigating the causes of accidents rather than dismissing them as speed. The reason no-one ever bothers is because as long as its young males - no-one gives a toss and because we generally dont bother to vote, the politicians dont feel inclined to do anything....
The stereotype of the lunatic young driver is so thoroughly ingrained that people only see what they are told to see. (SLOW DOWN ?!BOYS!?...wtf)

Victor

Boggle wrote:

Remember reading somewhere that while men do have more fatal car crashes, they also tend to do a hell of a lot more mileage.

Doing more mileage is irrelevant to your annual insurance premium. It's down to "how likely is this person to have an accident this year"

gom wrote:

The older you are more likely to get sick due to old age and need medical care so should they pay more PRSI as a result?

But those people are more likely to have paid more PRSI over their lifetime also.

jill_valentine wrote:

The assessors can't follow you around for a 6 month trial period, and get to know your favourite colour before they set a premium.

I'm not sure if they ask the question, but car colour and temprement have been linked, at least anecdotally.

gom wrote:

Should a Muslim be charged higher Life Assurance than a Christian as Muslims are expected to go to Mecca once in their lifes where it is possible he/she will die in a crowd crush???

But what about Mary and Biddy at the Bingo Hall / Jumble Sale?

GuanYin

An actuary friend of mine maintains its a very complicated system used to work out the insurance quotes but admits the fact that there are more men on the road increased the likelihood that men will be involved in a car accident. He reckons as female drivers are rising in number it would be due to balance out.

Boggle

Doing more mileage is irrelevant to your annual insurance premium. It's down to "how likely is this person to have an accident this year"

Wat I (think I) was referring to was the myth that women are inherently better drivers than men.
More miles per year - more likelihood of crashes.... Sounds like they should be taking more heed of that mile per annum box on the ins form. Definitely a better yardstick than whether I'm a bloke or not!

I'm not sure if they ask the question, but car colour and temprement have been linked, at least anecdotally.

In Japan (I think - but I'll check this out and get back) they actually penalise you for the sportier colour cars.

Swarfboy

Don't know anything bout the gender divide ......all I know is this...
A friend recently....female (whom everybody called responsible) tried to get a taxi late one night... realised it was going to be a long wait and got in her car... Drove down a bad road (bog road) and hit the ditch flipped the car and killed herself.... Stupid b*tch.!
Now she's gone ............
So what does any of this crap matter about.......
All people are stupid at some time and we all hopefully will reach the conclusion that we just don't understand anything....if we live long enough..
I certainly don't anymore.!

rainbow kirby

Insurance companies base their premiums on their statistics from previous years. And statistically, women have fewer accidents. Young men have more. Therefore the company puts a higher loading on the young male driver, as the probability of him having an accident is higher, ie. the company is more likely to have to pay out.
It's all probability. Simple as that.

jor el

jill_valentine wrote:

Insurance is based on probability. The assessors can't follow you around for a 6 month trial period, and get to know your favourite colour before they set a premium. They have to use a profile they've already built up from prexisting statistics.

Indeed, however, when you pass your driving test it's supposed to mean you are a competant safe driver, so you should then get an insurance quote based on this assessment. But the insurance companies don't seem to take that into consideration and they'll still generalise on a man/woman, under/over 30 basis. I think the real issue is the fact that we don't really have a working driving test system in place in this country. This is why Hibernian do their own driving test because they know the offical test is a joke.

Seanie M

Whether you're male or female, I think provisional drivers have to be taken into account too. I know some of each sex, and the men are far far more confident behind the wheel. BUT, that confidence can sometimes be their demise. Men sometimes do have a poor attitude to driving. Thus, an inexperienced provisional male driver may have a greater chance of getting into an accident because of his cockiness and eagerness to get out there. Whilst I also believe that a female provisional driver can be the cause of accidents due to slower reaction speed, inability to judge distance and some other things that men are (according to the brains) more superior at.

We men do travel more mileage, react quicker, may like faster driving when the road is good, and collectively become experienced better than females, who think they should be thought of the same after less mileage, slower reaction speeds and wrong judgements.

I think men do make better drivers, but because our brains/bodies allow for it. Sorry ladies, but its true - you do beat us on brain power/memory at times mind you!

Also, as an immature side note - if the likelyhood of getting into an accident is based on probability, then the probability rises the longer you are on the road (no matter what the cause). I say speed up and get the hell off the road quicker, and the probability lowers!



Seanie.

daveirl

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