A clampdown on Dublin's nightclubs

ro_chez

Necromancer wrote:

People will just drink more quickly
You soud like desperate alcoholics. Most people who go clubbing that I know go out with the intention of scoring not to get plastered.
The drink is far more expensive in many clubs.
Drunken yobs arent every girls fantasy.

Thats absolutely ****ing bull****, not everybody goes to clubs to score or get plastered. Some are actually interested in the music and the artists that are playing.

jd

seamus wrote:

This is obviously a stupid proposal put forward by a group who are aware of the problem, but have no idea how to solve it - the Gardai. Their intentions are good,

Their intentions are to make life as easy for themselves as possible. The "templemore mindset" needs to catch up with how most people want to live their lives.

STaN

Oh great, so you get all the pub and all the nightclub patrons, pouring onto the street within half an hour of each other. I'm sure that won't cause greater violence. What will the Gardaí do then?

They should be going the opposite and have staggered or even remove a lot of the time restrictions. You could have clubs opening from 2a.m. to 6a.m. for example which is common in nightclubs abroad.

GuanYin

I really think you need to broaden your horizons if you honestly believe this is the state of the nation.

Necromancer wrote:

Some of hat has been said in this thread has been nonesene. To start I consider the first post spam in the hope we'll help this petition.

I didn't notice any of it until you posted.

Necromancer wrote:

You soud like desperate alcoholics. Most people who go clubbing that I know go out with the intention of scoring not to get plastered.
The drink is far more expensive in many clubs.
Drunken yobs arent every girls fantasy..

You're confusing a social analysis with a declaration of intent. Since the curtailing of normal pub hours, the incidence of alcohol poisoning admittance due to excessive drinking in casualty departments has increased in the cities. This could be coincidence but its more likely due to people ordering large amounts of drink before leaving the cheaper pubs and going to the nightclubs.

Incidently, most people I know who go clubbing go out to enjoy the company of the friends they are with, not to get plastered or "go on the pull". So it just shows that your social model may not be the best/only one

Necromancer wrote:

This wont effect 90% of pubs, if you want to get plastered there is nothing stopping you. Drink cans before you go out and go to the club earlier, maybe even bypass the pub completly.

I fail to see how this won't effect pubs. People will leave earler which means pubs will lose in trade. Or people will bypass pubs, as you suggest, which means pubs will lose trade. Either way, this will effect pubs.

Necromancer wrote:

Gardaí want to work less hours, perhaps related to over time negotiations, or perhaps they are getting sick of a shít load of abuse they dont deserve. Its hard work.

Which they signed up for. You can't take a job which involves dealing with the public at their worst (which is in matters of crime and disorder) and then complain because its a bit nasty.

Maybe we shouldn't allow drunk people or drug users into casualty departments either, because after all doctors and nurses shouldn't have to deal with the abuse. They're just hired to look after sick people. Thats right, maybe that will stop them drinking and using drugs if they think they'll be refused medical treatment.... :rolleyes: Dear god, sometimes I wonder.

Necromancer wrote:

The truth is that most people dont want to do whats good for them. I dont. Because of this the State legislates for the common good. To impose restrictions or to put it more correctly to give responsibilities to people for every liberty they grant.
I heard an interesting interpretation of this at a recent debate, ill try to quote it.
I suppose it all depends on weather or not you believe you have a natural right to everything.
The notion of the Nanny State might make an interesting topic for the next boards debate.

Well lets see, the incidence of drunk and disorderly and alcohol poisoning is actually quiet small in comparison to the amount of people actually out drinking. So this suggests that its not the majority of people that are the issue.

Are you suggesting, that to deal with the minority problem group, we create a society where adults have no public place to socialise after 1.30am. You are in effect imposing a social curfew.

Now, I believe that anyone, who maintains a behavious withing the boundries of the law, has a right to go out in public in this country however late they want. Its basically up to the government to facilitate the people. The government is ther eto act on the wishes of the population, not dictate to the people how they can live.

Necromancer wrote:

I think last orders in a club is 2:30 or there abouts. Now the way I see it the problem is D&D when ppl leave at 3am. If you genuinely want to dance/score this new closing time is terrible. What if last orders were pushed back to 1:30 but the clubs stayed going till 3 as normal. Everyone bar the alcoholics are happy and there might be a rant about there right to get **** faced and ruin other ppls nights, but hey, theres always these new vodka sachets.:)

Whats the difference? All joking aside, what you probably will see is more drink being smuggled in, or people buying 2-3 rounds at 1.30am to keep them going til they are kicked out. What does that achieve? The best way to stop people getting hammered is to remove the need for them to consume large amounts of drink over short periods of time. Shortening the period of time they have to drink is not a sensible way to approach that as it effectively compunds the issue.

Necromancer wrote:

Seriously though I dont want to have to leave the club any earlier, if there was some way to stay open after last orders Id be happy.

The issue hasn't been pushed forward by the government of gardai as a drink issue in any case, its been pushed forward as a drunk and disorderly issue with the masses spilling onto the streets at night, which is why the Gardai, "on the spot" fines are also due to be implimented. this means that your arguements are at crossed purposes if we are to go soley on the content of your post.

gazzer

The likes of Sprit, Spy, Viperrooms and Gaiety (those that serve drink till 4am) are going to lose a fortune if this rediculous proposal is passed in the courts on Wednesday... How can anybody in a position of authority think that letting everybody out on the streets at the same time is going to solve the problem of violence on the streets. If i go out on a friday night to a late bar and say i leave at 1.30,, at least i have the option (at the moment) of going somewhere else if i want for another couple of hours... some weeks i do others i dont... i would say the vast majority of people who go into town would be the same. We are adults for gods sake... why are we being treated like kids just because a minority of people like to cause trouble at night.

It would answer the government better to get some of the 2000 extra guards out (as promised) into the city centre on weekend night and clamp down on all the violence... its not as if drink is the only factor in this violence anyway.. i'm sure drugs has a hand to play in it.

As other people have said on this forum... why not have clubs stop selling drink at say 2am and still be able to open till 4 or 5. I have been in Manchester and London where this happens and i think it is a good comprimise.

Dont know what is happening to this country.. as well as this rediculous proposal we also have the alter boy for health wanting to put move tax on drink to cut out binge drinking (which is apparantly having more than 4 pints)...


WIll the last person leaving this country please turn out the lights.

Stabshauptmann

Of course there are ppl interested in the music or there with partners but wouldnt these ppl fall into the subset I alluded to who go to clubs for reasons other than to get plastered (I mentioned those on the pull as the largest sector of this group) and so not contradict my point?
Ill happily stay in a pub or nightclub hours after ive stopped drinking. Unfortunatly there are ppl who cannot have a good time without alcohol and whose good time infringes on the rest of society and thus something needs to be done. As was said above, a few bad apples..
Yes 2000 gardaí would be nice but for ppl to behave themselves would be better. I dont believe this is an effort to solve the problems associated with drink, i think its an effort to deal with these problems during hours more acceptable/comfortable for the Gardaí

Ardent

gazzer wrote:

Dont know what is happening to this country.. as well as this rediculous proposal we also have the alter boy for health wanting to put move tax on drink to cut out binge drinking (which is apparantly having more than 4 pints)...


WIll the last person leaving this country please turn out the lights.

This is what you get when the people of this country follw each other like sheep and vote for the likes of Fianna Fail time and again. If you've had enough of this bullsh*t, you know what to do at the next general election.

Bri

syke wrote:

All joking aside, what you probably will see is more drink being smuggled in, or people buying 2-3 rounds at 1.30am to keep them going til they are kicked out. What does that achieve?

Exactly. Right on the button.

I also think it's pretty clear that certain clubs differ from others. Some never have 'artists' playing or try to attract serious clubbers. They're just meatfactories where muppets go to drink themselves silly and score the nearest thing to them. Unfortunately the law doesn't discriminate according to the music/crowd involved.

STaN

Necromancer wrote:

Ill happily stay in a pub or nightclub hours after ive stopped drinking.

That may be fine, and i'm sure a lot of people will be under some sort of 'alternative' stimulation in nightclubs and wouldn't mind. But they have to stop serving at 1.30 and be closed for 2am? No?

Frank Grimes

Necromancer wrote:

i think its an effort to deal with these problems during hours more acceptable/comfortable for the Gardaí

Do you really think that laws should be dictated so the Gardaí are kept happy? If they don't like their hours they should get another job, do you honestly think they didn't realise what the job would entail before they signed up?

ionapaul

Although I agree with some of the thinking behind this proposal (avoid having the large masses of violent idiots stumbling around at 3am closing time) and definitely hope we will someday, somehow become mature in regard to our national drinking habits, this proposal will just shift the problem 90 minutes earlier. Same number of drunken idiots, same masses of people pouring onto the street.
I say let the pubs/clubs stay open 24 (i'll be the first to invest in a pub chain if that happens) but charge the drunks an arm and a leg for using the A&E facilities (and put them at the back of the line for that matter).

Stabshauptmann

Frank Grimes wrote:

Do you really think that laws should be dictated so the Gardaí are kept happy? If they don't like their hours they should get another job, do you honestly think they didn't realise what the job would entail before they signed up?

Im saying I dont believe their motives for this new proposal but now that you mention it why shouldnt the Gardai be happy and satisfied in their jobs?

GuanYin

Necromancer wrote:

Im saying I dont believe their motives for this new proposal but now that you mention it why shouldnt the Gardai be happy and satisfied in their jobs?

You say this again, but don't address one point put forward by anyone else on the matter.

Shoudl the Gardai not have to deal with armed criminals or violent crackheads either? Because I'd say they'd take a drunken 19 year old over them anyday.

Maybe keep all teh Gardai away from teh nasty stuff.

What about Doctors, nurses and ambulance drivers. should we withhold emergency medical treatment from drunken people because the medical and paramedical profession might find them unpleasent tod eal with. Its exactly the same thing after all.

ixoy

Necromancer wrote:

Im saying I dont believe their motives for this new proposal but now that you mention it why shouldnt the Gardai be happy and satisfied in their jobs?

Them being happy is fine. Them being happy at our expense ... not as good.

Frank Grimes

Necromancer wrote:

Im saying I dont believe their motives for this new proposal but now that you mention it why shouldnt the Gardai be happy and satisfied in their jobs?

I not saying that, you said in your other post:

i think its an effort to deal with these problems during hours more acceptable/comfortable for the Gardaí

I don't think the Gardai should be allowed shut up shop after a certain time in the evening, do you?
Like ixoy said, they can be happy all they want - just not at the expense of the rest of us and our safety. It is their job to police the country after all.

spongebob

Its a silly proposal. Those of us who remember the 1980s just prior to the introduction of 30 mins or 1 hour drinking up time remember the 10 minute swill where pr1cko publicans would sell you a pint at 10:59:59 PM and would pull it out of your hand at 11:10:01 .

Change the licencing laws to any 12 hours out of 24. If someone wants to open at midnight and close at midday then they should be allowed as long as it was not a residential area. A residential area may choose 11am to 11pm .

Any 12 hours out of 24 , no extensions ever , and your hours printed on the door in bold letters so poeple know .

M

chewy

in one day thats not bad... well done sunil

adjodlo

ionapaul wrote:

I say let the pubs/clubs stay open 24 (i'll be the first to invest in a pub chain if that happens) but charge the drunks an arm and a leg for using the A&E facilities (and put them at the back of the line for that matter).

Yes, because drunk people love to be told to "go to the back"

arcadegame2004

Originally posted by Ionapaul I say let the pubs/clubs stay open 24 (i'll be the first to invest in a pub chain if that happens) but charge the drunks an arm and a leg for using the A&E facilities (and put them at the back of the line for that matter).

Spot on! I was going to say that but you said it for me thank you

I really am sick and tired of these irresponsible people who are clogging up the A+E wards at the expense of far more deserving cases! They share the blame, in my opinion, for this new law. They give young people a bad name!

gollem_1975

I don't know if I would go as far as saying that drunk people attending A&E's should be put to the back or that people attending a&e's while drunk should pay extra for the service as I think it would be unworkable in most cases ( I do agree with the sentiment .. similar to how insurance policies often make exclusions for people under the influence )

I do think that if publicans and niteclub owners are serving drinks to punters all night , and in particular serving to punters that are visibly out of their faces that they should make an additional contribution to the cost of security/policing in the city. ie: maybe they should pay more than a florists.
( I know there would be counterarguments to this .. its just a suggestion )

i think that if the niteclubs want to differentiate themselves from the late pubs perhaps they could become clubs.. ie: they have membership lists or perhaps they should as people have said earlier
let them serve alcohol up until a certain time and let them remain open for a few hours after the bar has been closed.

DadaKopf

Have the Gardai the power to make laws? I thought only the Oireachtas has the power to make these kinds of decisions.

sovtek

RuggieBear wrote:

Not sure that would work here....maybe if pubs stopped serving obviously drunk people it might, otherwise i think it would compound the problem and their would be violence throughout the evening.

Every country I've been to that has 24 hour drinking it's the same. People go out later, drink slower and less, there aren't millions of drunk people out on the road at the same time and you also don't all have to cram into a few open pubs after 23:30.
You've had decades of early closing hours...what's been the effect so far?

chewy

as i read on another list the gardai arn't making up a new law... there is no specific license for nightclubs an arrangement was made years ago to forget about the meal and let clubs close at 3 and its been slowly eroded since then nightclubs have to apply for a special exemption late licence every month at the courts and the judges have approved them at 3,.... 2,... 1:30....

so the guards arn't making up a new law but simply restriction the arrangement...

theres talk of a protest tmw... get off he web and the like...

ionapaul

adjodlo wrote:

Yes, because drunk people love to be told to "go to the back"

That why my hospitals would have the big men with cattle prods for the drunkards...:)

chewy

on this and the thumped thread it is descending into a discussion about how much people hate nightclubs and wittism about getting pissed?

doesn't this sorta law effect all late night entertainment, all types of gigs for ceili to trance?

people often complain about artist not playing sets for no long enough and then alot people don't turn up for supports if they start at liek 7 30 or 8.. depending on the venue...?

MadsL

All of you on your high horses about drunk people in the A+E clogging up the services and being put to the back..consider this..

A few years ago I was working in a bar in Prague. The manager was a complete cnut and took some sort of dislike to me. I finished my shift and sat down for a pint. I was knackered and was ready to go home after I had drunk my 'staffie' - free pint after work - he keep getting me to stay, and I slowly drank my way through four pints. After which I left to go home..

I was a bit wobbly on the way to the metro, but nothing more than a bit merry, by the time I had travelled 4-5 stops I had no further memory of what happened, although I had a vague memory of being in one part of a metro station covered in vomit. 2 hours later, I remember being put in the back of an ambulance, and then passing out. I woke up next as my clothes were removed and I was strapped down in the recovery position and given an injection in my ass. I woke up the next morning with a heart monitor on me in a hospital bed - the mother of all hangovers..

The doctor came around and asked me what had I been drinkking, when he was told four beers, he said "That's impossible - you had a massive amount of alcohol in your blood and you went into toxic shock - alchohol poisoning" I figured out after that, that I had been spiked. The Bar manager had deep sixed my pints (poured vodka into them for a six count)

Now, do you think that I deserved to be 'put to the back' or be regarded as 'irresponsible' because of it?? Medicine has always had a non-judgement ethos and any attempt to erode that should be firmly resisted.

Thanks to the dedication and care of Czech medical staff, I survived that little episode. Perhaps you think I should have been left in the gutter.....

adjodlo

how the hell did you not taste the vodka??

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

madsl.. you are not the majority. most people in a+e (for drink related stuff) put themselves there through their own foolishness and "love of the drink".

GuanYin

Mordeth wrote:

madsl.. you are not the majority. most people in a+e (for drink related stuff) put themselves there through their own foolishness and "love of the drink".

Yes and probably about a quater of them wouldn't make it through the night waiting for attention.

And then you have the ones who don't make it through the night.

So yes, let the drunk people wait and/or die in an A&E because they are drunk.

I was lead to believe this board was for informed opinion not just coming along and making up crap they know nothing about.

arcadegame2004

Now, do you think that I deserved to be 'put to the back' or be regarded as 'irresponsible' because of it?? Medicine has always had a non-judgement ethos and any attempt to erode that should be firmly resisted.

MadsL your situation is not typical of the problems caused by drunks in the A+E wards. The people I am talking about are the drunks who get spiked. I am talking about the hordes of drunks who voluntarily head off to the hospitals and clock up the A+E wards. I say force them to pay. See how many of them will turn up drunk in future then!