A clampdown on Dublin's nightclubs

spongebob

sovtek wrote:

You've had decades of early closing hours...what's been the effect so far?

In Ireland 11pm closing was introduced about 1916 to keep the British Army out of the pub . The law survived unmodified until the late 1980s , over 70 years later.

Sovtek is right, removing the fixed closing time reduces haste and reduces the swill effect at the end of the night which is what causes most of the hassle on the street in my opinion . It will not have an effect for 3 or 4 years in this country given our conditioning so any new regime must be ringfenced from interference for 5 years.

Every civilised society has areas where late opening is tolerated. Despite the UK still haing 11pm closing and 10mins drink up like we used to they nevertheless allow big extensions in certain areas . If you are outside an all night club at 8am in London or Manchester you see quiet tired people making their way home on public transport (its up and running by then) and not bothering anybody . Basically they are knackered.

M

spongebob

Have a look at this . At the time the hours in the Corpo area were more restrictive than the Hours in The County. Dublin County being countryside at this time.Therefore the yobbos terrorised Howth and Lucan and the Guards could not control them.........AT ABOUT 7PM EVERY SUNDAY

It is grotesque to suggest that a couple of dozen drunken louts, going out to Clondalkin, Lucan and Howth, have set the whole police force of this country in defiance and that the Guards threw up their hands and said: “We cannot manage them.” That is grotesque. If there are publicans in these places who are habitually co-operating with the drunken gang that upset the public peace, they ought to have their licence taken from them; they ought to be raided and raided, and raided, prosecuted and endorsed until they are put out of the licensed trade. Nobody in the licensed trade wants such a curse in the trade. Nobody would be better pleased than the licensed traders of this city or country if such persons were moved out of the trade. They are the kind of people who bring disrepute on respectable licensed traders in this country and nobody is interested in the fate that overtakes them.

There is no validity in the argument that the hours of opening should be altered simply because there is no other way of keeping the “drunks” from carrying on their capers in Howth, Lucan or Clondalkin. The right and only way is to arrest them; if necessary, to put them in jail; to close down the houses where the scandals habitually take place and, if necessary, to amend the law in order to make it possible to close down these houses.

That, along with more sh1te from our useless Guards and Politicians, is taken from the Dáil Debate on the subject in 1942 . Link with more of same is Here .I especially love the fact that the Dubs have not seemed to improve their behaviour since 1942 as evidenced here , and nor have the Guards become any more professional vis a vis the drunks and the issues arising from their activities .

I reject absolutely the suggestion that this microscopic minority of drunken rascals should persuade the gentlemen of Oireachtas Eireann as to the proper hours for opening licensed premises in the City of Dublin. We should decide that quite independent of the activities of these people and we ought to be delivered— and that at an early date—by the Gárda Síochána, from the continued nuisance of these drunken louts misconducting themselves in the outlying districts of Dublin and coming in and disembarking on the doorsteps of respectable citizens, singing serenades to the accompaniment of the jew's harp, to the great scandal of the respectable citizen's next-door neighbour.

M

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

excuse me.. where did I say anything about refusing treatment to sick people?

alcahol poisoning is a sickness, even if it is self inflicted. Anyone that would refuse treatment to a drunk person on the grounds that "it's their own fault", well they just wouldn't make a very good doctor.

AngelofFire

I say force them to pay. See how many of them will turn up drunk in future then!

I agree , but they should always be treated first, then after they have been treated they can pay for all or even part of the cost by having extra stoppages put on their income taxes/unemployment benefits/pensions for the next few months. I would normally be against this type of thing, but the cost to the exchequer is colossal.


In my view the government have no right to interfer with our natural liberties, if a nightclub wants to open until 6am then thats the business of the owner, if a premises wants to drop the price of drink for an hour every night then thats their own business, not the governments. if a person wants to go out and get buckled thats his/her own business, the only time the government should intervene is in the event of them causing harm to themselves or anyone else.

arcadegame2004

Mordeth wrote:

excuse me.. where did I say anything about refusing treatment to sick people?

alcahol poisoning is a sickness, even if it is self inflicted. Anyone that would refuse treatment to a drunk person on the grounds that "it's their own fault", well they just wouldn't make a very good doctor.

But do you agree that drunkards stumbling into our A+E wards every weekend should be forced to pay for their treatment so as to act as a deterrent to those who habitually do this?

MadsL

So do you think that they should take a breath test to see a doctor? One pint, two pints, ten. Where is the line?

I agree that abuse or violence should not be tolerated, but given that we already charge people to use A+E (which is a fúcking disgrace in itself) do you really think that someone out celebrating, who then gets beaten up by some scumbag, should have to pay more because they are 'to blame'.

You completely missed the point of my post.

MadsL

adjodlo wrote:

how the hell did you not taste the vodka??

I smoked. A lot. For many years.

Sparks

arcadegame2004 wrote:

But do you agree that drunkards stumbling into our A+E wards every weekend should be forced to pay for their treatment so as to act as a deterrent to those who habitually do this?

Perhaps you missed the point behind the word "addiction" Arcade. Deterrents don't work with addicts.

Stabshauptmann

Ive said lots of things.

*I dont believe alcohol is the primary incentive to go to nightclubs

*IMO The Gardaí arnt being truthful when they say this is an effort to combat D&D, I think this is an effort to make there job earlier. They arent blind to the problems of this legislation, there is a good chance there will be as much D&D just at an earlier time.

*Laws which ppl label restrictive and make ppl feel we live in a "Nanny Sate" are made because there are those in any society unwilling/unable to act responsibly.

*My prefered solution would be to close the bar earlier yet leave the clubs open for those with other interests than alcohol. At 1:30 most ppl have had enough to drink.

Drinking more than 5 pints of alcohol a night is considered irrisponsible, something I disagree with, but like I said, I like many others dont always want to do whats good for myself / believe something to be wrong. There are many examples in society of ppl with similar beliefs : Those who steadfastly believe there is no harm in driving above the speed limit or under the infuence. Those who believe there is nothing wrong with smoking dope. These ppl (I hope) are in the minority but laws are made for all to abide by.



PPl are saying that with 24 hour drinking ppl go out later and drink less. Why not go out earlier, you'd have just as much time, and drink less?
I can see the many merits of 24 hour openings but we'd need a comprehensive late night transport system and during the first few months I think Ireland would experience more cases of alcohol poisoning untill ppl adapt and start to pace themselves better, it would be like being a beginer all over again

Should drunks be refused medical attention. No I dont think so, why do you suggest syke that they should?
Ive never worked in an A&E department and Ive never been there at night so I dont know how bad it is. Perhaps Gardaí should be posted there (I dont know if they are there already). Then the question arises what duties would the gardaí have? To protect the medical staff obviously. An earlier closing time for public houses would reduce the number of late hours being worked by medical staff in A&E too would it not? Or at least the numbers needed to staff those hours?

What you're getting at is my stance on the gardaí, no? I'll outline my opinion in easy to follow bulliten points

*They are overworked, the 2000 promised gardaí never arrived

*Ppls expectations for the gardaí are very high.
Its there job! If they dont like it get a new one!!
1) Is there any reason why we should make someones job any worse? After a match should we just dump all our rubbish (bottles, cans, rappers) under our seats and walk off because somebody else is paid to clean the stadium anyway? I dont agree with that. Bins are provided, please use them. Many hands make light work. Likewise I believe that with a little bit of maturity and social conscience the gardaí would have a considerably reduced workload.

The reason I view this as a desirable thing is that then, in theory, gardaí would have more time for more imortant things (IMO) such as traffic enforcement.

2)What would happen if conditions of work became so bad that we found it impossibel to recruit a sufficent level of gardaí? Imagine a society where as things become more lawless those enforcing the laws were becomming more scarce. Just use it as an extreme hypothetical to illustrate the futility of the statement "If you cant handle the job just change"

*Do I believe we have a perfect legal system, no, but Ive iscussed that elsewhere. Do I believe our gardaí are perfect, no.

You accuse me Syke of repeating a point, I needed to clarify my stance because it was being misinterpreted.

What we have is an attempt to move the problem earlier in the day, this is to accomade the ppl in A&E and Gardaí who have to deal with the problem. Dont these ppl deserve consideration? Not at our expense you say, well then at whose expense?

The ideal solution is to solve the problem, make nobody have to sacrifice anything. Maybe this is only the first step in such a move.

Stabshauptmann

I had to write that rather quickly if there is something unclear about it just ask

GuanYin

Mordeth wrote:

excuse me.. where did I say anything about refusing treatment to sick people?

alcahol poisoning is a sickness, even if it is self inflicted. Anyone that would refuse treatment to a drunk person on the grounds that "it's their own fault", well they just wouldn't make a very good doctor.

You didn't, but the thread (which has meandered wildly offtopic) was discussing sending them to the back of the queue at the time.

The fact is, Gardai know the pitfalls of their job and if they have any qualms about going out at 2am and dealing with drunk abusive people they should resign and become a parking inspector or something.

The government and the Gardai are here to serve the people, not to impose ridiculous laws because they don't have the brains to handle the situation. I really hope Fianna Fail and the PD's are hammered in the next elections and don't see government again for decades.


This is just the same typical "pass the buck" attitude IReland always has, noone tales responsability and does what needs to be done. They just find someone or something to blame and passs it off. Thats why we have such a poor infrastructure.

GuanYin

Necromancer wrote:

Ive said lots of things.

*I dont believe alcohol is the primary incentive to go to nightclubs

*IMO The Gardaí arnt being truthful when they say this is an effort to combat D&D, I think this is an effort to make there job earlier. They arent blind to the problems of this legislation, there is a good chance there will be as much D&D just at an earlier time.

*Laws which ppl label restrictive and make ppl feel we live in a "Nanny Sate" are made because there are those in any society unwilling/unable to act responsibly.

*My prefered solution would be to close the bar earlier yet leave the clubs open for those with other interests than alcohol. At 1:30 most ppl have had enough to drink.

Your beliefs are irrelevent. The issue here is public demand. If the public want to socialise in night clubs drinking til 3am, who are the GArdai to deny them this?


Regarding your views on the Nanny state, you're using the secondary school teacher approach of, "if one of you mis-behaves, all of you get punished". This doesn't wash when you run a country. In fact, outside of schoolrooms, terrorists and dictators are the only ones you find using it.

Necromancer wrote:

Drinking more than 5 pints of alcohol a night is considered irrisponsible, something I disagree with, but like I said, I like many others dont always want to do whats good for myself / believe something to be wrong. There are many examples in society of ppl with similar beliefs : Those who steadfastly believe there is no harm in driving above the speed limit or under the infuence. Those who believe there is nothing wrong with smoking dope. These ppl (I hope) are in the minority but laws are made for all to abide by.

You have no right to judge other peoples behaviour so long as they with hold the boundries of the law. You can decide its not for you, but to each their own. Again, you sound like a dictator, other peoples values should never be pushed on those who remain law-abiding.

Necromancer wrote:

PPl are saying that with 24 hour drinking ppl go out later and drink less. Why not go out earlier, you'd have just as much time, and drink less?
I can see the many merits of 24 hour openings but we'd need a comprehensive late night transport system and during the first few months I think Ireland would experience more cases of alcohol poisoning untill ppl adapt and start to pace themselves better, it would be like being a beginer all over again

And this is a bad thing? It may well be true that initially it would be tough, however, with 24 hour opening you need tougher laws in place, Its very simple, give the people what they want, but make sure if they break the law they are punished. This doesn't happen now.

Again its passing the buck. You either take responsability and fix the problem, or you pass it off and try enforce a stupid law like this one.

Necromancer wrote:

Should drunks be refused medical attention. No I dont think so, why do you suggest syke that they should?
Ive never worked in an A&E department and Ive never been there at night so I dont know how bad it is. Perhaps Gardaí should be posted there (I dont know if they are there already). Then the question arises what duties would the gardaí have? To protect the medical staff obviously. An earlier closing time for public houses would reduce the number of late hours being worked by medical staff in A&E too would it not? Or at least the numbers needed to staff those hours?

Wow, you don't drink and you don't understand sarcasm! How do you survive?


Seriously though, I was be very very sarcastic. No, earlier closing times would not reduce A&E staff significantly. People still do stupid things at night, regardless of how drunk they are. As many people come in from alcohol poisoning in the home so I don't see a staff reduction at all.

Necromancer wrote:

What you're getting at is my stance on the gardaí, no? I'll outline my opinion in easy to follow bulliten points

*They are overworked, the 2000 promised gardaí never arrived

*Ppls expectations for the gardaí are very high.
Its there job! If they dont like it get a new one!!
1) Is there any reason why we should make someones job any worse? After a match should we just dump all our rubbish (bottles, cans, rappers) under our seats and walk off because somebody else is paid to clean the stadium anyway? I dont agree with that. Bins are provided, please use them. Many hands make light work. Likewise I believe that with a little bit of maturity and social conscience the gardaí would have a considerably reduced workload.

The reason I view this as a desirable thing is that then, in theory, gardaí would have more time for more imortant things (IMO) such as traffic enforcement.

2)What would happen if conditions of work became so bad that we found it impossibel to recruit a sufficent level of gardaí? Imagine a society where as things become more lawless those enforcing the laws were becomming more scarce. Just use it as an extreme hypothetical to illustrate the futility of the statement "If you cant handle the job just change"

*Do I believe we have a perfect legal system, no, but Ive iscussed that elsewhere. Do I believe our gardaí are perfect, no.

You accuse me Syke of repeating a point, I needed to clarify my stance because it was being misinterpreted.

This is the governments doing and responsability for this lies soley and totally in the their hands. What has happened though, is that the responsability is being passed to the every day person. Pass the buck mentality. Instead of fixing the problem, they curb the workload. That makes no sense for an organised fiorst world government.

As for "making their job worse" Do you actually know what the gardai's job description entails? Jesus. They sign up to it knowing what the job is,

Necromancer wrote:

What we have is an attempt to move the problem earlier in the day, this is to accomade the ppl in A&E and Gardaí who have to deal with the problem. Dont these ppl deserve consideration? Not at our expense you say, well then at whose expense?

The ideal solution is to solve the problem, make nobody have to sacrifice anything. Maybe this is only the first step in such a move.

Thats utter bollix. Noone has ever gone near an A&E or any of the staff on this issue. Nothing has been said. So if it lies anywhere its soley at the Gardai.

Its not about consideration at our expense. They have a job to do and they have to do it. You don't impose draconian rules o people so the people enforcing the rules can have an easier night. Christ thats just about the most ludicrous argument I've ever heard.

seamus

Necromancer wrote:

Drinking more than 5 pints of alcohol a night is considered irrisponsible, something I disagree with, but like I said, I like many others dont always want to do whats good for myself / believe something to be wrong. There are many examples in society of ppl with similar beliefs : Those who steadfastly believe there is no harm in driving above the speed limit or under the infuence.

I'd say five pints per night is pretty irresponsible. Five pints in one night though isn't bad. The problem is that everyone likes to quantify. "This much is bad, this much is ok". It gives us set boundaries so that we can feel proud of ourselves for not having to use our own judgement. But we all know that an irresponsible amount to drink depends on many factors. I think most people would be agreed that an irresponsible amount to drink is about the time when you have trouble articulating yourself, and stumbling is frequent. For some this may come at more than five pints, for some less.

Those who believe there is nothing wrong with smoking dope.

Well, let's not throw that in there with those other actually destructive offences. That's a debate for another day.

PPl are saying that with 24 hour drinking ppl go out later and drink less. Why not go out earlier, you'd have just as much time, and drink less?

Nothing is that cut-and-dried. For the same reason as shops stay open late and open Saturdays and Sundays - everyone works off of a different time. Some people finish work late, and appreciate being able to go out for a few beers after work. If you finish at 12, you still have 2.5 hours to go out for a laugh.

I can see the many merits of 24 hour openings but we'd need a comprehensive late night transport system and during the first few months I think Ireland would experience more cases of alcohol poisoning untill ppl adapt and start to pace themselves better, it would be like being a beginer all over again

I'd actually think the reverse would happen. For a few months, people would be working from the old clock, and most would fade around 2-3 o'clock and head home. Then you'll see a sharp but brief rise in alcohol poisoning cases as people get used to the new times. Then it'll drop again, as people become more aware of the ability to keep drinking and learn to pace themselves. Nobody wants to wake up in a hospital. IMO anyway.

Should drunks be refused medical attention. No I dont think so, why do you suggest syke that they should?

I don't think syke suggested that. I don't think anyone did in fact. I would be in favour of billing people for the full cost of their overindulgence to the hospital/state though.

An earlier closing time for public houses would reduce the number of late hours being worked by medical staff in A&E too would it not? Or at least the numbers needed to staff those hours?

What difference would that make? I don't think any hospital staff mind working the late hours, it's the **** they have to deal with and see that's the problem. Earlier closing time means same amount of ****, just earlier.

*Ppls expectations for the gardaí are very high.
Its there job! If they dont like it get a new one!!
1) Is there any reason why we should make someones job any worse? After a match should we just dump all our rubbish (bottles, cans, rappers) under our seats and walk off because somebody else is paid to clean the stadium anyway? I dont agree with that. Bins are provided, please use them. Many hands make light work. Likewise I believe that with a little bit of maturity and social conscience the gardaí would have a considerably reduced workload.

The reason I view this as a desirable thing is that then, in theory, gardaí would have more time for more imortant things (IMO) such as traffic enforcement.

I agree completely. People can tend to just stay out of things and "let the Gardai deal with it, that's what I'm paying them for", when social order is everyone's business, not just the Gardai's. The problem is that the prescence of the Gardai (should) encourage order. People aren't going to start fights if there's a Garda walking 5 feet from them. But the Gardai want to make it so that we have to fit around their schedule, so that they don't have to mantain that prescence so late. They're here to service us, it's their duty to fit around and suit the public's schedule, not the other way around.

What we have is an attempt to move the problem earlier in the day, this is to accomade the ppl in A&E and Gardaí who have to deal with the problem. Dont these ppl deserve consideration? Not at our expense you say, well then at whose expense?

At no-one's expense. They get paid extra for working those extra hours. They chose a public service job, so their job is serve the public, whatever and whenever that service may be (within the confines of their role obviously). A & E and Gardai are 24 hour services. They always have been and always will be.

Imagine if the Fire Brigade demanded that the country's Electricity and Gas networks were shut down at 12am every night to minimise the risk of fire, so they could work on a skeleton crew. That's essentially what you're proposing here - inconveniencing the public for the convenience of public servants. It's illogical.

Stabshauptmann

Not sure what gave you the impression I dont drink, I even said I dont view 5 pints a night as irresponsible. I do drink, I drink in what I view as a responsible fashion. I judge it to be responsible on the basis that I never infringe on anybody elses rights be they other drinkers, garda or hospital staff.

You say it is unfair to paint everybody with the same brush and to legislate for the many on the actions of the few. How else can we claim to be an equitable society unless everybody is help to the same standards.

What we have is a problem being caused by a minority. Actually lets get this straight, do you agree that there is a problem? I got the impression you did so ignore this part if you dont, someone else might find it interesting.
We have a group of ppl who see nothing wrong in drinking themselves into a state where they become a burden on others. On the dance floor they take up more than their fair share of room, they knock into others, harass members of the opposite sex and threaten other ppl. Outside the club (possibly after being removed by the bouncer) they continue to harass others.

Now the gardai have to put up with this shit, you believe that the should since they get paid for it, I dont. Your opinion is totally opposite to mine but I dont label it "utter bollix". Its a fundamental view as far as I'm concerned as to how we treat other ppl that is seperating us. The gardai arnt saying they wont put up with it, just that they'll put up with it at hours more convient for them: a compromise (if we assume they dont like being abused ).

You say there is public demand to stay drinking till 3am in nightclubs. Well ofcourse there is otherwise clubs wouldnt stay open so late. But this comes back to my first point that ppl dont always want/do whats good for them. BEcause they want something isnt enough to say they get it.
Now you've labeled me a dictator, just for the record I dont agree with having to leave a club earlier from now on (if thats what the courts decide), Im not in favour of the proposal because I dont believe it will tackle Irelands problem with alcohol, so Im not trying to force ppl to accept it.

What I am saying is that I dont blame the gardai for this new proposal, I blame those who act irresponsibly and cause the problem.

You only have a right to do something so long as it doesnt encroach on someone elses right (rather simplistic I know but more or less accurate). Now if some ppls "good time" prevents another group from enjoying their night out then there is a problem. In many ways its not too dissimilar to the smoking conflict in pubs.
You said 2 things. Its not fair to punnish us all for their misbehaviour like we were still in school and that its unfair to impose further restrictions/judgements on ppl so long as they obey the law.
On the first account I agree with you, I cant seem to get this point accross, I want to be able to stay in a club or a pub longer than I can at present and am annoyed at the shortening of opening hours, I like the idea posted before of 24 hour public houses (although I have some reservations). Please suggest a way of tackling the problem posed by this minority, I d be interested to discuss the merits of any suggestion you make.
On the second point this comes back to our fundamental difference I alluded to earlier. You seem to believe that if its not againt the law its ok, if thats your job you do it, you have a very....Im not sure how to express this...technical mind. Ive a more...social view (I will search for better words). I view things with regard to their social and ethical contexts and with consideration for others.

I have to go somewhere now, Ill finish this point later, sorry, just to finish do you understand my position. Im not in favour of the proposal but am blaming the imature ppl who already spoil other ppls nights for this proposal, not the gardai who have had enough of there ****. In fairness so have I.

Stabshauptmann

and I do believe A&E staff are relevent to this proposal

Stabshauptmann

sorry seamus your post wasnt there when I started typing, but i really have to go

gandalf

Hmm here is what I posted in the After Hours forum on this.

Well the problem is simple and its been identified here already. Throwing so many people out on the streets at the same time is crazy. The idiot brigade will still drink the same amount as they did before except they will do it in a shorter period of time. The transport system will be stretched further with more people queueing for taxi's at the same time. Basically more people hanging around pissed at the same time, aggro will increase not decrease.

What would make more sense is to issue licenses to allow pubs have staggered opening hours, so let say a superpub could open from 9pm thru to 5am and a more traditional one can open from early evening thru to Midnight. With nightclubs allowed to open until 7am in the morning. That way everyone will be catered for, the people who want to go out for a quiet pint, some one who wants to get some serious drinking in and the dedicated clubber. (of course this would depend on the residences close by as well!!)

We in Ireland also need to mature with regard to our drinking habits as well. Why do we need to go out and get totally tanked up at every opportunity (and I am not getting on my high horse, I have bought the tee-shirt, worn it and pucked all over it !!!), a little more relaxed attitude from us is whats needed.

seamus

Necromancer wrote:

We have a group of ppl who see nothing wrong in drinking themselves into a state where they become a burden on others. On the dance floor they take up more than their fair share of room, they knock into others, harass members of the opposite sex and threaten other ppl. Outside the club (possibly after being removed by the bouncer) they continue to harass others.

While some would be drunk, I would say that the vast majority of people who start rows aren't completely hammered, rather they've had a few pints, are pissed off and out to cause ****. Hell, plenty of scumbags (and I've talked to people who've said this) don't consider a night out to be good unless there's been a fight.
The key is that these people were angry before they went and had a few beers on them. Alcohol doesn't cause the fights, it's just a catalyst, an uninhibitor which allows people to unleash their problems.
That's the problem that needs to be addressed.

Now the gardai have to put up with this shit, you believe that the should since they get paid for it, I dont. Your opinion is totally opposite to mine but I dont label it "utter bollix". Its a fundamental view as far as I'm concerned as to how we treat other ppl that is seperating us. The gardai arnt saying they wont put up with it, just that they'll put up with it at hours more convient for them: a compromise (if we assume they dont like being abused ).

I actually don't think that this is so Gardai can get home earlier. I think it's twofold: First of all, some kind of crazy belief that earlier closing will mean less violence. Secondly, it's Garda management coming up with a strategy to reduce the cost of overtime. Cold hard money once again comes into it.

Ask any Garda on the street if he'd prefer to work in a relatively quiet beat till 6am, or put up with drunken scumbags and morons until 1am, and they'll choose the 6am. As with hospital workers, the main issue for Garda Plod isn't how late he has to work, it's the ****e he has to deal with. Every Garda would much prefer working through the night to working till 2-3am if it meant there was less drunken violence to deal with.

You say there is public demand to stay drinking till 3am in nightclubs. Well ofcourse there is otherwise clubs wouldnt stay open so late. But this comes back to my first point that ppl dont always want/do whats good for them. BEcause they want something isnt enough to say they get it.

When we legislate for things that the public must do, it's usually something that is for the public good, and generally has no major day-to-day effect on the public at large. Seatbelts are a good example. They protect everyone, and are inconsequential to the everyday driving of a car.
The smoking ban is another. It protects employees, and has no effect on the majority. It can be argued that it forces some to smoke outside, but they have the choice to smoke or not to smoke, nobody's forcing them to do anything.
This is entirely different. The only people it benefits (and I use that term loosely), are the Gardai, but it affects the rest of the population adversely. It has a negative effect on people's choices, and certain freedoms. If it helped curb our drinking culture, then maybe it would be worthwhile, but it won't. And we know it won't. Opening hours are completely exclusive to that problem.

Stabshauptmann

seamus wrote:

I'd say five pints per night is pretty irresponsible. Five pints in one night though isn't bad. The problem is that everyone likes to quantify. "This much is bad, this much is ok". It gives us set boundaries so that we can feel proud of ourselves for not having to use our own judgement. But we all know that an irresponsible amount to drink depends on many factors. I think most people would be agreed that an irresponsible amount to drink is about the time when you have trouble articulating yourself, and stumbling is frequent. For some this may come at more than five pints, for some less.

I suppose I really showed my mindset there, I didnt mean it the first way. I usually only go out once a week, sometimes twice. I know everyone has there own limits, I was thinking about the definition of binge drinking being more than 5 pints in one night.

seamus wrote:

While some would be drunk, I would say that the vast majority of people who start rows aren't completely hammered, rather they've had a few pints, are pissed off and out to cause ****. Hell, plenty of scumbags (and I've talked to people who've said this) don't consider a night out to be good unless there's been a fight.
The key is that these people were angry before they went and had a few beers on them. Alcohol doesn't cause the fights, it's just a catalyst, an uninhibitor which allows people to unleash their problems.
That's the problem that needs to be addressed.

Is there anyway to deal with this problem. I suppose even if you take away the alcohol completely from the equation if someone wanted a fight they'd start it sober.

Opening hours are completely exclusive to that problem.

Well I dont know. I started with the opinion that if you could stay in the club for hours after the bar closed ppl would be happy. Those only interested in the drink can go home, those interested in everything else stay on and everyone seems happy. But Im really interested now in this idea of 24 hour public houses. Nobody is in any hurry to get drunk 9although Im not sure ppl will have a responsible enough attitude towards this for some time after its implemented).The stream of ppl entering the strets is staggered more than in my scenario and what you were saying above, about the lads out for a fight, if they cant find anyone to row with they cant have a row. But there would be logistical problems with this set up and I've a feeling it might be a serious inconvience to some ppl in residential areas.

Boggle

Haven't read the whole of this thread so apologiess if what I say proves completely redundant or has already been said but anyway, here goes...

Will ye ever cop the hell on when it comes to talking about hospitals please? If a man arrives into a hospital at 4am on a sat night/sun morn are you seriously saying that he should be put to the back of the cue??? What if he was walking home minding his own business and got jumped? What if he simply slipped and fell? What if a car, through no fault of his own, hit him? What if some scumbag decides he dont like the look of him?

I appreciate that you all think that these emergency wards are full of drunken louts but just because an injury is drink related doesn't mean it was self inflicted! Fair enough, you could argue that if someone drank way too much and passes out then its self inflicted - but you could also say that about alot of food-poisoning incidents! Or what about if someone took some medication and misjudged its effects on his drinking or if hemisjudged his tolerance for a certain drink??? Guess what - sometimes sh1t happens!!!!

I dont have the figures about these numbers but I will tell you that while there are drunken fights - most of the people that end up in hospital are not the instigators they are more often the victims. (After all your most likely to pick a fight with someone you can beat up)

.... Probably haven't put this across too well but short on time so please feel free to tell me your right!!!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

you're right. that post was pretty redundant.

arcadegame2004

Will ye ever cop the hell on when it comes to talking about hospitals please? If a man arrives into a hospital at 4am on a sat night/sun morn are you seriously saying that he should be put to the back of the cue??? What if he was walking home minding his own business and got jumped? What if he simply slipped and fell? What if a car, through no fault of his own, hit him? What if some scumbag decides he dont like the look of him?

I never said that they shouldn't get treated. But they should be forced to PAY for their treatment so as to deter them from placing themselves in that situation in future! I cannot condone drunks competing for beds with the victims of car-accidents and those needing lifesaving operations.

GuanYin

arcadegame2004 wrote:

I never said that they shouldn't get treated. But they should be forced to PAY for their treatment so as to deter them from placing themselves in that situation in future! I cannot condone drunks competing for beds with the victims of car-accidents and those needing lifesaving operations.

Apart from alcohol poisoning and perhaps drug reactions, alcohol related cases are accidents such as falls etc, I don't think they plan to end up in casualty on a regular basis.

Alcohol-poisoning is a pretty horrible experience for the patient and to be perfectly honest, if the experience itself doesn't deter them from repeating the mistake, I sincerely doubt that 100 Euros is going to make a difference.

Victor

Nobody wants to wake up in a hospital.

People in hospital do!!!

arcadegame2004

Alcohol-poisoning is a pretty horrible experience for the patient and to be perfectly honest, if the experience itself doesn't deter them from repeating the mistake, I sincerely doubt that 100 Euros is going to make a difference.

Only one way to find out!

MadsL

I cannot condone drunks competing for beds with the victims of car-accidents and those needing lifesaving operations

Would you ever cop-on. Ever heard of triage? No. thought not. Look it up. And stop posting garbage until you know what the hell you are talking about.

Do I know what I'm talking about - I'm the son of a 40 years served nurse.

Boggle

arcade wrote:

I never said that they shouldn't get treated. But they should be forced to PAY for their treatment so as to deter them from placing themselves in that situation in future! I cannot condone drunks competing for beds with the victims of car-accidents and those needing lifesaving operations.

I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry at this....

...seriously though, who are you saying should pay? Joe Soap who goes out for a few and then gets jumped on the way back? Maybe your right - how dare he expect to be able to enjoy himself in peace. MAKE HIM PAY. If you cause trouble the gardai should handle you not the bloody hospitals.

mordeth wrote:

you're right. that post was pretty redundant.

Thanks mate....

Boggle

... oh and arcade, you saud that they should pay as a deterrent to them puttiong themselves in that situation - Does the same apply to sports injuries?

gurramok

Its Wednesday night, the papers reported that the gardai were suppose to lodge their objections today...anyone heard anything or was the proposal all a hoax ?
Anyway the petition got nearly 15,000 sigs, not bad in 2 days

chewy

"I just heard from someone who was in court and they did not object but the percieved wisdom is they might on friday when the annual licence is up and or Monday??"

GiveUsTheNight.com needs you!!!

howdy,

we've now gone live with the site. tis a bit rough'n'ready but we'll be
adding/sharpening
things up over next few days.

as you may have seen, the petition we set up has reached over 13,000 signatures ( as of 16.40 Wednesday 29 Sept), with little or no advertising, or media attention, just word of mouth. also, in the space of less than 3 days , that is quite a staggering number. Our aim is to get that number as high as possible , as quickly as possible , in order to present to the Gardai and also the overnment the magnitude of displeasure at the recent proposals to curtail nightclub opening hours.

We are looking for people to help us the signature list up as high as possible and you can do so by ...

1) letting people know about the website and the petition

2) following some of the links on the website and get in contact with various people in the press, politics, civil service agencies and the
gardai.

3) we have posters ready that can be put up all over town and in colleges.
Anywhere really that you can think of. if you can help put a few up , please do . They'll be made available from Selectah Records from approx 5pm Wednesday 29th September. we'll also have a downloadable version of the
poster up later tonight.

4) Many people dont use the internet or have an email address so you can also download a pdf.file from our site (www.giveusthenight.com) to get written signatures. Again you might know someone who's involved in the nightclub business , or indeed feel passionately about it yourself. Every signature helps.

5) We'll hopefully have about 10,000 flyers ready by Friday, so again if you could distribute them in colleges around town etc please do. Again these will be made available from Selectah records.

Basically we're doing this to help clubs ALL over Ireland , so the more people who help out, the better the momentum we get, and the more influence we will get - it needs to have a snowball effect.

so let as many people as you can know about the website and the petition, and lets keep at it....

cheers,

http://www.giveusthenight.com/