Buses on Strike

Giblet

Yeah so I'm standing out in the rain, cold, tired and I find out the buses are on strike. Well thats my project fúcked until next week, thanks guys.

15s, 49, 65 77 and 150, stay at home or get a lift. I couldn't.

Blub2k4

Yeah I saw them all outside the ringsend garage standing around at 6:45 this morning when I was leaving the house, was wondering what it was about.

jacko

apparently some driver got píssed on and the other drivers hopped on the bandwagon and started a strike... dont know how true this is but thats what i hesrd

CuLT

Yeah, it was ghey, I had to get a lift to the 19/A bus stop, just about made it.

AFAIK, it was one driver who was pissed off, and, being unionised, the other bus drivers didn't cross the picket line. I'd lynch the ****er, there's a process to go about if you're not happy with your pay, if you don't get anywhere and you're the only one, TOUGH ****.

stagolee

i was standin out there on dame street from 6.05 till 6.45 till some decent bloke delivering papers or something stoppped and told everyone, had to pay €20 for a taxi to work , tis a pain in the arse as this place wont reimburse for taxis so im down 20 squid , ah well i heard it was reasonably justified any way, one of the drivers got attacked and they werent willing to give him any time off

midget lord

jacko wrote:

apparently some driver got píssed on and the other drivers hopped on the bandwagon and started a strike

:rolleyes:


WTF?


A driver got pissed on for ****s sake, no wonder they have gone on strike if they have to deal with similarly disgraceful behavior on a daily basis.

seamus

midget lord wrote:

A driver got pissed on for ****s sake, no wonder they have gone on strike if they have to deal with similarly disgraceful behavior on a daily basis.

Please tell me you're joking, and haven't lost the ability to interpret local variances in language.

midget lord

Unfortunately not. I caught a snippet of this on the news this morning that a driver was pissed on a became sick as a result. He apparantly took a couple of days off work as a result and DB weren't too happy with this. The rest of the guys went on strike because of DB's reactions.

Jacko pissed me of with his jumping on the bandwagon jibe, this most certainly is not jumping on the bandwagon.

skywalker

CuLT wrote:

AFAIK, it was one driver who was pissed off,

jacko wrote:

apparently some driver got píssed on

cmon people, get your stories straight. was he pissed on or pissed off?

Third_Echelon

skywalker wrote:

cmon people, get your stories straight. was he pissed on or pissed off?

sounds like he was pissed off for being pissed on

Verdammt

Did he piss on himself ??, if so then he has no grounds for being sick.

skywalker

Verdammt wrote:

Did he piss on himself ??, if so then he has no grounds for being sick.

au contrare, id say you were pretty sick if you went around pissing on yourself.

Verdammt

skywalker wrote:

au contrare, id say you were pretty sick if you went around pissing on yourself.

Splash back my friend, splash back .....

It happens to the best of us.

I reacon he got a bit of splash back and went "oh somebody pissed on me, I'm so annoyed and I'm f*ckin off home".

He doesn't want to admit he has a leaky willy.

Suaimhneach

Hahaha, that's cheered me up slightly. I had to get a 54A today, which took an hour and a half. THen the bus broke down. THEN I got a taxi, ****it, didnt wanna be late for my second day of college. SO! I tell the taxi driver DCU, but he hears UCD and I don't notice til twenty minutes later, what with not knowing this side of the city to well.

SO all in all I'm an hour late for a lecture. AND I'm 10 quid down. AND iI'm tired.

But I'm an optomist[sp]. Things can only get better....right?

rainbow kirby

I was kinda lucky this morning. Getting the 75. Normally I hate that bus... They'd better be running by the time I'm going home, I'm not in the mood for waiting on the 17 at Belfield at night!

Kêrmêttê

The driver of a bus was peed on. He had to take sick leave from work to recover from whatever ailment he was left with after the attack.
Dublin Bus refused to pay him for his Sick Leave and this is what the whole problem is about.
Seemingly if a driver is attacked while on the job they are supposed to get some sort of "compassionate leave" with full pay to recover from the event.
The guy is down in wages even though he was attacked while doing his job.
It's not fair and not right. The Unions should have done something sooner.
They're there to protect the workers ffs!! :eek:

Winters

Bus servers are back to normal following the strike accorinding to breakingnews.ie

I hate unions. Its them that bring the country to its knees whenever they want. They seem to be doing a lot more harm then good. These things can be easier solved without going through the unions and having half the bus service crippled for a morning. Its not like we have a decent public transport system inplace where if there is a strike people can take another mode of transport.

CuLT

Winters wrote:

Bus servers are back to normal following the strike accorinding to breakingnews.ie

I hate unions. Its them that bring the country to its knees whenever they want. They seem to be doing a lot more harm then good. These things can be easier solved without going through the unions and having half the bus service crippled for a morning. Its not like we have a decent public transport system inplace where if there is a strike people can take another mode of transport.

Aye, but I'm sure there's reasons why it would suck more to have them not around.

btw, If anyone wants to tell me I'm right and have a reason why it'd be great .

Cactus Col

hey ... if you want to blame someboyd blame the tallaght scumbag that pissed on the driver, or blame dublin bus for not doing enough to ensure the safety of it's drivers...

and by the way Cult .. you're right ... unions are very important in trying to protect worker's rights .. without them we'd be getting less pay, and put up with bad conditions

Xterminator

Kêrmêtt&#234 wrote:

It's not fair and not right. The Unions should have done something sooner.
They're there to protect the workers ffs!! :eek:

Aye, and theres such a thing as due process too.

The first action shouldnt be to shaft thousands of commuters, that should be the last resort.

But because they have us by the short and curlies, they can take unannounced unilateral unoffical strike action, if they fell like it, and theres nothing we can do about it!

I have no respect for the Bus and Train unions. They prevent modern work practices, bleed the country dry, and strike at the drop of a hat.

I look forward to the day i can take my custom elsewhere.

X

Cactus Col

bikes are readily available

Winters

Cactus Col wrote:

without them we'd be getting less pay, and put up with bad conditions

Thats the Jim Larkin, early 1900's mentality in you! In this day and age there is no need for Unions. Back i nthe days of when workers had no rights and there was no minimum wage there was a need for a large group to stand up for workers. However, we have laws now to protect workers rights, courts for them to take their case to, we have minimum wage etc. What more use do we have for unions?

Unions are also partly to blame for the constant increase in prices. If wages were frozen and didnt stop kreeping up prices would be forced to freeze and/or drop. Simple economics.

So to recap, Unions bad in this day and age.

CuLT

Xterminator wrote:

Aye, and theres such a thing as due process too.

The first action shouldnt be to shaft thousands of commuters, that should be the last resort.

But because they have us by the short and curlies, they can take unannounced unilateral unoffical strike action, if they fell like it, and theres nothing we can do about it!

I have no respect for the Bus and Train unions. They prevent modern work practices, bleed the country dry, and strike at the drop of a hat.

I look forward to the day i can take my custom elsewhere.

X

Agreed, due to the numbers involved I'd say that he caused at least several thousands euro worth of loss of business etc with his actions.

I paid for it quite directly as did many others, so I'm somewhat biased.

Cactus Col

Minimum wage only came into effect in the last few years, and as Ireland becomes more and more like America it is essential that we have Unions to back up our rights.

I was also directly affected by the strike, also having to get the 19A into town, although I had to walk 30 minutes to that bus stop (no lift for me), and once I heard what happened to the driver all I could do was sympathise.

Kêrmêttê

Xterminator wrote:

The first action shouldnt be to shaft thousands of commuters, that should be the last resort.

Unfortunately, public service jobs have become dangerous because of the increasingly aggressive nature of the general public. People like bus drivers, nurses, post office workers etc, are literally taking their lives into their hands just going to work.
Historically, these people have not been well protected, be it in health and safety or in monetary matters... I remember many bus strikes as a kid because the drivers were on such low pay and they were constantly getting attacked.

There is such a ridiculous amount of procedures and red tape now involved in industrial relations that it takes a long time for action to be taken when an employee relates a problem to a Union representative. It never used to be so difficult, but this is the way of things in the modern age.
Therefore, underpaid, undervalued, frustrated and threatened workers, unfortunately, see only one way out of their plight... and that is to make the general public aware of their problems.
This is by having an all out strike.

If workers can make Joe and Jane Blogs complain to the govenment that they can't get to work because the busses aren't running.. maybe some result will eventually be seen. The government has to take notice of thousands of complaints and be seen to investigate and offer some form or resolution.

Remember, Joe and Jane Bloggs elect the government... and Bertie and Co. have to be seen to be keeping everyone happy.

I say fair play to them for having the guts to strike... they're only trying to get better working conditions after all and they probably won't even get paid for the time they were off.

Cactus Col

Winters wrote:

Unions are also partly to blame for the constant increase in prices. If wages were frozen and didnt stop kreeping up prices would be forced to freeze and/or drop. Simple economics.

for that to work supply and demand would have to be in perfect balance, which it never is.

can you blame the rise in the price of houses for the last few years on unionised jobs getting small increases in pay?

No you can't.

can you blame the costs of beer rising in the last few years on unionised jobs getting increases in pay?

No you can't.

What you can blame is that there is such a large demand for these goods that suppliers can up their prices as long as we keep paying them.

(those were just two simple examples)

ixoy

Kêrmêtt&#234 wrote:

.Therefore, underpaid, undervalued, frustrated and threatened workers, unfortunately, see only one way out of their plight... and that is to make the general public aware of their problems.
This is by having an all out strike.

Anyone got any figures on the take-home pay of a Dublin Bus driver? I seem to recall it was quite nice and most certainly not "underpaid".

I say fair play to them for having the guts to strike... they're only trying to get better working conditions after all and they probably won't even get paid for the time they were off.

Well it was an unauthorized strike so they're not remotely entitled to any sort of pay, even from their Union. If it was an authorized one that's different.

The procedures may take a while, but there's a reason that they exist - to stop strikes like this one in which nobody wins. If you have a legitimate grievance go through your union like everyone else. I won't say fair play when your actions cause such great upset and loss of business and there was another venue open to you.

Oh and as to those people who say the unions are helping us all out still - how do they protect us many thousands in jobs without any union? I'm in a non-unionised company and the only think I've gotten out of the various pay talks is having to fork over more of my frozen pay income to everyone else...

Kêrmêttê

Winters wrote:

Thats the Jim Larkin, early 1900's mentality in you! In this day and age there is no need for Unions. Back i nthe days of when workers had no rights and there was no minimum wage there was a need for a large group to stand up for workers. However, we have laws now to protect workers rights, courts for them to take their case to, we have minimum wage etc. What more use do we have for unions?

Unions are also partly to blame for the constant increase in prices. If wages were frozen and didnt stop kreeping up prices would be forced to freeze and/or drop. Simple economics.

So to recap, Unions bad in this day and age.

Your average worker does not have a working knowlege of the laws and rights regarding employment.
So, the Unions are still needed to oversee that Employers do not start "short changing" their employees and taking away their facilities or infringe on their rights.

Also in the matters regarding employment, renewal of contracts, disciplinary action, redundancy and termination of employment... a Union representative is needed to protect the rights of the employee. Again this is because the average person does not know what they are entitled to or the procedures involved.

Unions are not to blame for the rise in wages. Blame the Banks and other Financial Institutions for that. They are the ones who keep raising inflation.
The Unions are fighting on the behalf of the workers to keep the wages in line with inflation so that the poverty gap does not increase further.

Unions are still needed but their roles have changed somewhat since Larkins Lock-out!

Kêrmêttê

ixoy wrote:

Anyone got any figures on the take-home pay of a Dublin Bus driver? I seem to recall it was quite nice and most certainly not "underpaid".

Regarding the amount of danger that the bus drivers find themselves in these days, I would imagine that they, themselves, feel very underpaid.
Compaired to a data entry clerk, a bus driver probably receives a very nice wage, but is a data entry clerk running the risk of being stabbed with a HIV or Hep C infected syringe during an average working day?

The key words here are point of view. On paper, in black and white figures, a bus drivers job and financial situation might look very nice. In actual fact for the people concerned it a completely different situation.
Yes, they are innoculated for various diseases and they do have a health plan, but what good is all that if you are put out of work due to an attack to yourself during your working day and you don't even get paid for your sick leave??

Before anyone suggests that if the person concerned isnt happy with the conditions they should find another job... that is usually easier said than done.
Imagine a 50 yr old bus driver trying to find another career that giving the same wage and entitlements as he's already receiving as a 30 yrs experienced bus driver and ONLY qualified to drive a bus... It just wouldn't happen.
Some people have to take this type job and have to make the best of it that they can.

the_syco

Just look @ the builders wages. They used to be sh!t. Then they started to get a quid per brick. Prices have trebled in the last few years, because of this. Now, thanks to the unions, the builders get paid nicely. If this causes inflation to rise, to the point where tourists no longer come here cos of the tax's + high cost of living, so what? We got our great bl00dy unions...! :mad:
To teh person who said

What you can blame is that there is such a large demand for these goods that suppliers can up their prices as long as we keep paying them.

One thing you have to take in are external costs. If uo increase building cots, it'll be dearer for a company to build, but if they increase prices a little, they'll be abblt to cover it. If that company made bottles of water, the shop would have to then incrase the price. This type of thing goes around, and soon everthing becomes dear.

Cactus Col wrote:

Minimum wage only came into effect in the last few years, and as Ireland becomes more and more like America it is essential that we have Unions to back up our rights.

A couple of the major US compaines here are thinking of moving awa from Ireland, due to our unions!

ixoy wrote:

Anyone got any figures on the take-home pay of a Dublin Bus driver? I seem to recall it was quite nice and most certainly not "underpaid".

I don't know how it is now, but a few people I know had to do alot of ovetime to live decently. This may have changed in the last few years, but I don't know.

ixoy wrote:

Oh and as to those people who say the unions are helping us all out still - how do they protect us many thousands in jobs without any union? I'm in a non-unionised company and the only think I've gotten out of the various pay talks is having to fork over more of my frozen pay income to everyone else...

This is why I dislike unionised companies. BUT without unions, are you saying to me that you could complain to your employer, without the possibleity of getting sacked?

Kêrmêttê

ixoy wrote:

Oh and as to those people who say the unions are helping us all out still - how do they protect us many thousands in jobs without any union? I'm in a non-unionised company and the only think I've gotten out of the various pay talks is having to fork over more of my frozen pay income to everyone else...

A Union is not going to help just random people. They look after their members... that's why their members pay a subscription to them.

If you work in a company that has no Union and has unfair conditions, (like I did for many years), it's up to the employees to organise themselves.
All it takes is a few phone calls to a few of the Union Head Offices to get a representative out to talk to everyone. This can be done during a lunch time break.
If you are in a company and feel that you are suffering and do nothing about it... then it's your own fault. I along with other collegues suffered in this way and eventually could take no more, but we sorted things in the end.

Call a Union Rep to come out and inform them what the situation is within your company and get them to tell you what they can do for you.
Then it's up to the workers as a group to decide or vote which one they want to go with or whether they want to bother at all.
They really are very useful and it can mean that your working life becomes easier.

I don't usually agree with random flash strikes... but sometimes depending on the situation in hand its a necessary evil.

Cactus Col

the_syco wrote:

A couple of the major US compaines here are thinking of moving awa from Ireland, due to our unions!

yes ... but they are moving to countries with very few workers right as well ... would you prefer we allowed them to hire 10 year olds to make t-shirts at 50c an hour here?

The reason the house prices went through the roofs was because all of a sudden people in ireland had money enough to buy houses, the demand went up, so the supply of houses also went up, creating a demand for workers, resulting in labourers earnings going up.

as soon as the demand for new houses slows, wages in the building industry will drop fairly quickly.

stevenmu

Yeah, I remember the train drivers went on strike a few years back and they picketed the bus stations so they couldn't run either. If this guy didn't get his entitlements there's procedures he can take, he doesn't need to shut the whole service down. There wasn't even a threat of a strike untill 10:00pm last night, how many managers are going to be in a position to do something for him at that time of night ?

Cactus Col

they were in a position to do something every day since he was pissed on, but didn't.

stevenmu

Cactus Col wrote:

they were in a position to do something every day since he was pissed on, but didn't.

Does anybody know what steps he had taken before deciding to strike ? All I've heard is that management were told there would be a strike at 10pm yesterday, they deny they even knew about this. I haven't heard anything about how he tried to deal with it within the company.

What it comes down is that he didn't get money he felt he was owed. He wasn't striking for better safety or anything like that. He should have taken the matter to the HR department and then to management within DB. If he is contractually owed the money he could have then taken it to the labour court. If not he always has the option of leaving and getting a different job. What happened to him is very sad, and I personally think he should be compensated, but if he's unhappy with the response of his employers he should leave the company, or if he has a legal right to the money he should follow it up that way. He should not be jumping on the strike bandwagon. He's just demeaning what should be a last resort for people with no other choice.

shellspeare

I live in south yorkshire and our buses went on strike in june for almost two months, it was an absolute nightmare. The food supplies in local shops drastically reduced and three children had road accidents on their bikes.
I'm a firm believer in fighting for ones rights but two months was a tad too long, two people i know got fired from work for being late, taxi companies upped their prices. It's a shame when companies take advantage of situations like this.

Agent Smith

the bus's were on strike today?

didnt even notice, i got a 111 to dun laoighaire today and heard nothing about it

Victor

the_syco wrote:

Just look @ the builders wages. They used to be sh!t. Then they started to get a quid per brick. Prices have trebled in the last few years, because of this. Now, thanks to the unions, the builders get paid nicely.

Actually, union rates in construction have lagged behind market rates. It is the banks lending cheap money that has caused excess demand in the market. Excess demand shoves up prices.

billy the squid

Winters wrote:

Bus servers are back to normal following the strike accorinding to breakingnews.ie

I hate unions. Its them that bring the country to its knees whenever they want. They seem to be doing a lot more harm then good. These things can be easier solved without going through the unions and having half the bus service crippled for a morning. Its not like we have a decent public transport system inplace where if there is a strike people can take another mode of transport.

before my employer became unionised people were being forced into working 20 hour shifts five days a week.

I was witness to a heavily pregnant woman being forsed to work in a standing up work station for ten and a half hours until she collapsed and was wheeled off to hospital.

now we have union none of that **** happens now.

Some of the multinationals and national companies in the private sector would be coplete ****holes if it werent for unionisation. yeah some people take it too far and strike if the kettle in the canteen isnt boiling at break time, but there were companies here in Limerick, for example which used to flout the labour laws as late as 2000 and 2001, and their employees werent foreigners, they were irish.

as for unions being responsible for the rise in costs, let me put it to you this way on the last PPF installment I received a 10 euro pay rise. This put me above the amount you can get away with not having to pay PRSI, The PRSI i now pay is roughly 10 euros. meaning I got **** all. people on the dole got the tenner into their back pocket.

Blub2k4

Kêrmêtt&#234 wrote:

The driver of a bus was peed on. He had to take sick leave from work to recover from whatever ailment he was left with after the attack.
Dublin Bus refused to pay him for his Sick Leave and this is what the whole problem is about.

This is not the whole story, if that was it then it would be ok, but apparently the man was down for overtime on the Sunday that he took sick, the company paid him for the sick day but refused to add the extra money that the overtime would have added, he was being an arse basically, he didn't work ovetime but wanted it taken into account with sick pay, a clear case of abuse of work to rule.

Blub2k4

Kêrmêtt&#234 wrote:

The driver of a bus was peed on. He had to take sick leave from work to recover from whatever ailment he was left with after the attack.
Dublin Bus refused to pay him for his Sick Leave and this is what the whole problem is about.

This is not the whole story, if that was it then it would be ok, but apparently the man was down for overtime on the Sunday that he took sick, the company paid him for the sick day but refused to add the extra money that the overtime would have added, he was being an arse basically, he didn't work ovetime but wanted it taken into account with sick pay, a clear case of abuse of work to rule.

ixoy

Blub2k4 wrote:

This is not the whole story, if that was it then it would be ok, but apparently the man was down for overtime on the Sunday that he took sick, the company paid him for the sick day but refused to add the extra money that the overtime would have added, he was being an arse basically, he didn't work ovetime but wanted it taken into account with sick pay, a clear case of abuse of work to rule.

Apparently it's even worse than that according to the Irish Independent :

[font=Verdana, Arial] The row erupted over a driver's concern that having sought sick leave following an assault over the weekend he would have lost some overtime earnings. On Friday evening he was urinated on by three teenage boys.

Management contended the driver had failed to report the assault or follow procedures and, instead, opted for sick leave and obtained a medical certificate from his own doctor. He requested passengers to alight and returned to his garage, informing his controller of the unpleasant incident and telling him that he was going home to recover.

Yesterday five colleagues supported his grievance by placing an unofficial picket on the Ringsend garage. It was supported by most of the drivers rostered for the Tallaght and south-west Dublin routes.

A company spokeswoman said the driver should have reported the incident as an assault to the depot manager who would have contacted the State bus company's medical officer to assess his condition.

On assault leave, the driver would be entitled to full pay including shift allowances, but not overtime earnings. The driver had a medical cert effective from Saturday to yesterday but returned to work early.

So apparently he failed to report it as an assault and follow the procedures in place, from the beginning (let's not forget the fact he dumped all his passengers). It's a nasty business (even though the urine was from above him and not directly onto him), but his actions were wrong. And seriously - striking for the overtime when full pay was perfectly available? Noone else sees that as pushing it a little?


[/font]

Blub2k4

It was a classic case of the type of thing that gave unions a bad name, in any other job he would have been fired. I so dont want them to be privatised but stuff like this embarrasses the socialist in me and makes me think sometimes that privatisation would put them on a level playing field with the rest of us.

Victor

On Friday evening he was urinated on by three teenage boys.

Do I want to know the mechanics of this? :eek:

ixoy

Victor wrote:

Do I want to know the mechanics of this? :eek:

Yes you do

Yesterday the bus driver at the centre of the dispute told how he had to take a disinfectant bath after the three youths urinated on him. Les Hughes said that the boys, aged 15-16, urinated on his number 77 bus on Friday evening from Jobstown to the city centre. [font=Verdana, Arial] The incident happened as the bus was at the Half Way House on the Longmile Road. They were on the top of the bus.

"The urine came through and I was soaked from head to toe. The dash and cabin of the bus were too. They got off the bus and ran away. Every driver on that route has to deal with abuse daily," he said.

Interesting they didn't ehh urinate directly onto him which is a reasonably important point if it's being viewed as an assault.


[/font]

Blub2k4

ixoy wrote:

Interesting they didn't ehh urinate directly onto him which is a reasonably important point if it's being viewed as an assault.

[/size][/font]

But then he would have had to report it as such, but he was more interested in being a chancer.

Kêrmêttê

Kêrmêtt&#234 wrote:

The driver of a bus was peed on. He had to take sick leave from work to recover from whatever ailment he was left with after the attack.
Dublin Bus refused to pay him for his Sick Leave and this is what the whole problem is about.

Blub2k4 wrote:

This is not the whole story, if that was it then it would be ok, but apparently the man was down for overtime on the Sunday that he took sick, the company paid him for the sick day but refused to add the extra money that the overtime would have added, he was being an arse basically, he didn't work ovetime but wanted it taken into account with sick pay, a clear case of abuse of work to rule.

ixoy wrote:

Apparently it's even worse than that according to the Irish Independent :
So apparently he failed to report it as an assault and follow the procedures in place, from the beginning (let's not forget the fact he dumped all his passengers). It's a nasty business (even though the urine was from above him and not directly onto him), but his actions were wrong. And seriously - striking for the overtime when full pay was perfectly available? Noone else sees that as pushing it a little?

These details were not clarified on the radio news item that I heard on my way to work yesterday morning.
Interesting article... it wasn't really an assault after all.
I wish people, eg. this stupid driver, wouldn't react in such a ridiculous manner... another typical example of The Boy Who Cried Wolf :rolleyes: