New/second hand pistol wanted

benhurt1

I have been looking around on the net with a view to purchase a pistol. I am specifically looking for a 9mm with option to convert to .22lr or vice versa (2 guns for 1 license!). Planning to use it in competition. Can anyone recommend a site other than a U.S. one?

AND SPARKS.....I am thinking positively about the changes that have happenened so.....PLEASE DON'T RAIN ON MY PARADE!!

civdef

Talk to your local gun dealer. If it's legal, they can get it, with a lot less hassle for you. At least one of the big wholesalers has already arranged to import loads if permitted.

oldzed

Stick with the 9mm option , you can get the .22 conversions but you will not be able to put it on the same licence .you will have to licence it the same as a new handgun , I know its heartbreaking and makes no sense but its the same with rifles such as the sigs and blasers which can easily change calibres , each barrel in a different calibre needs a licence and plenty of my friends have blaser lrs's with several barrels , And before someone says it I know shotguns are different . Anyway most of the conversion kits dont work great anyway and are very prone to jamming, If you want a .22 the ruger is a great little pistol and the beretta 83 is also very good , if you want to spend more the walther gsp .22 is cracking but you are paying for it but will have it forever . If you are after 9mm's e-mail me and I can put you in touch with a dealer who can sort you out . I am currently waiting on my second pistol license at the moment . on the plus side for the 9mm is that its as cheap to shoot as decent .22 fodder. I know sparks will say you cant use it in issf but there are plenty of competitions you will be able to enter with it and they are a great plinker as well (ps you can shoot issf with the walther). If you can afford it get a 9 mm and a .22 , and I also recommend a .38/.357 revolver . thats my 2 cents

civdef

Oldzed, how did the first licence application go for you?

I'm waiting for gun details before submitting an app, any unusual hoops to jump through etc?

benhurt1

thanks guys, but has anyone got prices from a dealer apart from the major one?

Irishglockfan

The CZ will run you about 700 to 1000 Euros depending on what specs you want on it here.They are pre selling them.
Have used the ceiner conversions on both my Glock9mm and para ordanance45,with no bother.Ceiner is expensive BUT they do make proper functioning equipment.It usually comes down to keeping the kit meticously clean and making sure the springs are ok.
CZ does make a 22lr from the plant for their guns AFAIK it works very well.
The new Walther comes with a replacement 22lr top as well..
If you want a dedicated 22 I would go the Ruger as well.

There are deals aplenty out there folks in both the USA and Europe. I found a AMT longslide 45 which i couldnt get for love or money in the US,for E1000 in Europe or a Browning 9mm with 3rd reich proof markings for E 400. Just got to look for them.
Well I am off Monday to apply for my Glock license and then the DOJ.Keep you all posted on progress
Lets see how this will go with a 243 application as well by Dec.

Sparks

Rain-making's a bit outside my ability Ben, all I can do is know when it's raining...

oldzed

Sparks , This may be the perfect pistol for you , the Smith and wesson 500 in .50 cal , I had the pleasure of giving a while with this one 2 weeks ago at the smith and wesson academy in springfield ma . Kicks tremendously,plenty of muzzle flip , accuracy good :cool: if you can control it , 2$ a round and its perfect for black bear and cape buffalo , what more could you want????????????? :cool: . I am taking the piss of course even the instructors laugh at it and this one is tame compared to the 4 inch barreled version.

benhurt1

NOOO THANK YOU! HAD THE CHANCE TO FIRE A DIRTY HARRY MAGNUM IN HOLLAND A FEW YEARS AGO AND WAS SCARED OF IT, TOO!

"If you are after 9mm's e-mail me and I can put you in touch with a dealer who can sort you out ". DID YOU GET MY PM?

Irishglockfan

Ahhhh thats a cute little gun!
For those of you who like a 45 design in 50 cal. guncrafterindustries in arizona
make one in 50 GI[new cal this year] which is 12.7mm /.500in pushing out at 271m/sec at 714 joule.
Biggest I have fired is a 454 Casul. Hand cannon ideal for hunting moose or elephants but totally uncontrollable for quick follow up shots.Too much gun for me,but no doubt somone can find use for it.

"Mans gotta know his limitations" [ Clint Eastwood aka Dirty Harry Callahan, Magnum force]

Sparks

No thanks Oldzed - I saw a case only a few weeks ago in canada where some daft git give a kid a gun like that on a hunting party. Kid fires the gun, the recoil is far more than he can handle, the gun hits him in the head and resulting blunt force trauma killed the child.

I actually would like a pistol, y'know - just that I'm looking more at the Toz-35s, the IZH-35s and the FWB P40s than the "Dirty Harry" handcannons. I just don't have any interest in the sidearm side of things - I always figured they were designed to do something I have no desire to do or to practice doing.

gouda

Sparks wrote:

No thanks Oldzed - I saw a case only a few weeks ago in canada where some daft git give a kid a gun like that on a hunting party. Kid fires the gun, the recoil is far more than he can handle, the gun hits him in the head and resulting blunt force trauma killed the child.

I actually would like a pistol, y'know - just that I'm looking more at the Toz-35s, the IZH-35s and the FWB P40s than the "Dirty Harry" handcannons. I just don't have any interest in the sidearm side of things - I always figured they were designed to do something I have no desire to do or to practice doing.

Hmmmm. Sparks you now have me very curious as to what you would do with a Toz,IZH or FWB pistol. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the pistols you would like shoot designed to shoot bullets? The "handcannons" also shoot bullets. That is the primary design function of ALL firearms,they all shoot bullets. What did you intend doing with the Toz or the others you mentioned? I cannot think of any other use for a pistol,unless you had no bullets. Then you may be able to use it as a paperweight or ornament or something. Also why do you insist on calling handguns sidearms? They are handguns.Do you call your target or other rifles "longarms"? Doesn't sound right ,does it? Perhaps we should call them all "Sporting Arms", after all the ammunition and chamber dimensions for them are made to "SAAMI" specs. Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers' Institute to those who wish to know. I really do think the "sidearm" label should be dropped.
I also think there is a slight wrinkle of the nose from you towards other shooters who choose to do and practice what their pistols were designed to do i.e. shoot bullets at targets. I think you are referring to Practical disciplines when you say it is not something you want to do. I hope no other shooters out there have any sort of arrogant attitude towards other disciplines. I don't shoot target pistol or rifle but I am fully supportive of shooters who do. Please try to forget about your personal prejudices and moderate the board in an unbiased fashion. It's very off putting reading your disparaging comments about the practical disciplines.

Sparks

gouda wrote:

Hmmmm. Sparks you now have me very curious as to what you would do with a Toz,IZH or FWB pistol. Correct me if I am wrong but aren't the pistols you would like shoot designed to shoot bullets?

Yes and no. To use an analogy, that's like saying that all cars are designed to drive. It's certainly correct; but it's a rather minimal statement.

To be more informative, I would say that sidearms are designed to be reliable, rugged, and accurate to the level where you can hit a human target at the ranges that sidearms are normally used - ie, close range (say 30 yards or less). They're designed for use by soldiers and police in the field, and are used for self-defence in countries like the US. They are, in short, designed to be used on humans - I don't know of any which are actually designed to be used for self-defence against predators.

Target pistols, on the other hand, are solely designed for accuracy. You could, in theory, use a Toz-35 as a weapon - but it would be a very poor choice, and frankly might make a better club than a projectile weapon. The Toz is designed with the sole purpose in mind of putting a .22lr round through the center of the olympic target at 50m. So are the IZH and FWB pistols (though for the 25m and 10m targets, respectively). The design decisions made while making these pistols renders them unsuitable for use as weapons (though as with everything else in this world, you theoretically could use them as such). And they are not exactly designed to be rugged or reliable in the field - they are pieces of precision engineering and need care and cleaning and attention to function as designed.

What did you intend doing with the Toz or the others you mentioned?

Training for the ISSF olympic shooting events.

Also why do you insist on calling handguns sidearms?

I don't. Handgun is a term that (to my understanding) incorporates both target pistols and sidearms. Sidearms are a subset of handguns, and if I'm talking about that subset, that's the word I use. It's an attempt at linguistic precision, not propaganda.

Do you call your target or other rifles "longarms"?

No, I call them "target rifles" or "free rifles" or "air rifles" (the latter two being the ISSF names for my .22 cartridge and my .177 air rifle).

I also think there is a slight wrinkle of the nose from you towards other shooters who choose to do and practice what their pistols were designed to do i.e. shoot bullets at targets.

Depends on what the targets are! Remember, a Glock 17 is designed to be fired in "combat" conditions at a human - a Toz-35 is designed to try to win the Olympic Games. They're different animals entirely. One is a sidearm, one is a target pistol. That's not to say you can't shoot targets with a Glock - just that that's not what it was designed for.

I think you are referring to Practical disciplines when you say it is not something you want to do.

It's not something I have any interest in; and it's something I feel would do a lot of damage to all target shooting in this country if it came in here, as I've said here before, because of the negative PR it would attract.
But that's a rational, reasoned motive for not wanting to be involved in it; not a blind arrogance towards all the disciplines I don't shoot! By and large, if I'm not interested in something, I just don't spend time on it.

Also, it's not quite what I was referring to - I was specifically referring to the use of firearms on humans (which, as you know, is what the Practical disciplines were invented for by Cooper). Now IPSC shooting has deviated from the armed forces/police/self-defence training that Cooper envisaged; which is why he resigned from the IPSC recently; but it's still too close for my personal tastes, and I wouldn't enjoy it because of that. Likewise for IDPA and PPC/1500 shooting - the targets are just too humanoid for me to feel like I'd want to start shooting at them.

Please try to forget about your personal prejudices and moderate the board in an unbiased fashion. It's very off putting reading your disparaging comments about the practical disciplines.

Those comments do not constitute moderation; they are my personal beliefs and opinions. Here, even the moderators (and we have two on this board so far, myself and civdef, so this isn't my personal fiefdom!) have the right to express their views - even if those views are unpopular. (So long as basic civility and the forum's charter are adhered to, of course).

Optikus

jesus are you lot mad or what?? I'm intersted in getting a firearms legaly .. if anyone has any info on this please pm me.

Sparks

Optikus wrote:

jesus are you lot mad or what?? I'm intersted in getting a firearms legaly .. if anyone has any info on this please pm me.

We're not mad, just very dissappointed.

Seriously, if you're interested in starting target shooting, the best answer is to join your local target shooting club. They'll be able to answer in great detail all of your questions. On the specific one of obtaining a firearm, you have to apply to the Gardai for a licence. The form's available in your local garda station. It's €38 per annum for the licence, and you'll need the serial number of the firearm first. Usually, you'd go through a firearms dealer who can assist with the paperwork. There's a thread in the forum recommending dealers. Where you are in the country would be of help in recommending clubs or dealers, by the way...

Optikus

what are the reason for gaining a license .. im thinking they ain gonna give it to any tom who fils out a form

Sparks

Optikus wrote:

what are the reason for gaining a license .. im thinking they ain gonna give it to any tom who fils out a form

Do you mean what reasons are considered acceptable? There isn't actually a defined list. Target shooting and hunting would be considered to be legitimate; "home defence" would get you a rather unamused chat with the local garda

And no, firearms certs are not given out to anyone who applies, but it's not that onerous (and shouldn't be, to be honest - cars are quite a lot more dangerous than firearms so it should be far harder to get a car than a firearm. logically). In general, the laws are structured so that (in theory at least) anyone who applies and isn't known as a troublemaker by the local gardai, can get a certificate, so long as he or she has a legitimate reason for wanting a firearm and has a place to safely use it. In practise, that's how it goes for the most part but you do hear of cases where Gardai make arbitary decisions that shooters find illogical (for example, I've heard of people being told that you can't own more than two rifles, when in fact there's no limit on how many firearms you can legally own), or cases where other glitches emerge.

benhurt1

benhurt1 wrote:

I have been looking around on the net with a view to purchase a pistol. I am specifically looking for a 9mm with option to convert to .22lr or vice versa (2 guns for 1 license!). Planning to use it in competition. Can anyone recommend a site other than a U.S. one?

Think I need to remind everyone of the original Question!!

Irishglockfan

Certainly!
try www.cz brno.cz. they make a adaptor kit for their cz 80 in 22lr called the cadet.
www.oberlandarms.de have two glocks for sale in 22lr[english speaking] cheapish too
www.walther .de english speaking do both the walther p9 in 22lr and 9mm[ i think ]
Trouble is;you will definately need both 22lr and 9mm on your EU firearms passport.[our bit of paper is looked at askence and bemusement in europe]
conversion kits are generally looked as a seperate firearm.

handguns for hunting; Yes there is,try the Thompson center contender/encore
range,they are single shot and are in a plethora of big calibre interchangable barrells.Everything from 22lr up to 375 I think. you would be run out of any hunting camp by laughter alone if you showed up with a 45 or 9mm and said it was for hunting or defence against animals.Most camps that have to hunt dangerous critters in N America usually have either a 44mag "camp gun" or carbine in that calibre,also referred to as "the cooks rifle" or a short double barrell shotgun with double aught buck for any bears who are attracted to the camp for food.if you are hunting with a handgun it is minimal a 357 magnum upwards.9mm or 45 just hasnt got it to drop even deer sized animals not to mind dangerous game.no doubt somone has shot a bear or whatever with those calibres but it an exeption to the rule. Only person i have ever seen tote a 44mag as self defence against dangerous game was a white hunter in Zimbabwae.He used it for a coup de grace giver for elephants who had been downed but not dead.
BTW there is a Glock and a 45 style pistol specificlly for target work.
Glock 17L[longslide] appx 6in long adj target sitesAMT longslide 45[not made anymore,but plenty of copies in custom 45 shops available] 7in barrell

benhurt1

Glockfan: can you re-post the walther and brno links please? Thanks!

Sparks

Just a quick note for those interested in applying for a firearms licence; I've added a new FAQ to the NTSA website on this topic, here.

Optikus

thanks to all you guys you pmed me the revelent info ..but im thinking of taking the Gun cllub route as this is something im seriously interested in,, i was just wonder if anyone knows of any good clud in the midlands im living in athlone myself. and also is it easy to join these clubs is there any fees and regulations you have to meet/live up to.

Sparks

First one that comes to mind is the Midlands Rifle Club. It's a few miles west of Tullamore, not too far from you at all. An excellent facility.