Keep FAI & IRFU out till the work physically starts at Lansdowne

kilkennycat2004

Now that the GAA have at last been given the 40 million promised in 2001 it is more likely that soccer & rugby will be used stop gap to stage games if this work ever starts at Lansdowne.
I predict that the Lansdowne Road redevelopment will not start at all if they are not kept out till the JCB's cranes start knocking the old stands at the rugby venue.
This is exactly the scenario I personally worry about & one that a lot more attention should be given to.
If these guys get in, & I attend all soccer matches in lansdowne since mid 1970.s by the way, they will never start the redevelopment at the rugby venue.
That would be true to form of both IRFU & FAI.

jesus_thats_gre

Oh joy... here it goes again so..

egan007

YAWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNn

thejollyrodger

landsdown road will defintely go ahead. It remains to be see where IRFU and the FAI will play their games. I wouldnt start expecting it will be Croke Park just yet

mike65

I think the IRFU and the FAI should not sully themselves by playing superior sports in a bigots stadium....onto Cardiff!

Mike.

thejollyrodger

Fúck Cardiff,

lets ask Real can we use the Estadio Santiago Bernabeu

galwaydude

its a joke, why should ireland play their matches abroad when we have the best stadium bar none here in dublin in good old croker.Its time to stop living in the old days and cop on and open croke park as the GAA are 100 million in debt and badly need the money.

kilkennycat2004

galwaydude wrote:

.Its time to stop living in the old days and cop on and open croke park as the GAA are 100 million in debt and badly need the money.

Its 60 million owed well doable in 10 years.
Particularly with the new hotel coming on stream also.
However once the rugby/soccer stadium starts they should be accommodated as a temporary measure.

galwaydude

where will the gaa come up with 6 millon a year over the next 10 years.Im all for playing at croker while lansdowne is been developed.After that leave croker to gaelic/hurling.Im not slating the GAA afterall i come from a hurling stronghold in galway.

thejollyrodger

Its great that Croke Park is there but the fact that one end doesnt have a covered and is a terrace is going to kill any atmosphere generated.

galwaydude

thats no different than lansdowne where there are only 2 sides covered.Imagine 80,000 people cheering on ireland against france next season. The GAA should be proud in making croke park one of the the best stadium in europe if not the world.

kilkennycat2004

galwaydude wrote:

where will the gaa come up with 6 millon a year over the next 10 years.Im all for playing at croker while lansdowne is been developed.After that leave croker to gaelic/hurling.Im not slating the GAA afterall i come from a hurling stronghold in galway.

The 2 all ireland's alone are worth 8 galwaydude.

galwaydude

i doubt that very much as everyone else has to get paid, all the ppl that work in croker on match days, and that doesnt even include the money they sent back into development.Im just saying they could do with the extra money thats all.Hardluck about the all ireland im sure ye will be back next season, shame my own galway team arent a bit more like kilkenny or even cork to that matter.

eirebhoy

galwaydude wrote:

thats no different than lansdowne where there are only 2 sides covered.Imagine 80,000 people cheering on ireland against france next season. The GAA should be proud in making croke park one of the the best stadium in europe if not the world.

Terraces are not allowed in football anymore and this is the last campaign that bucket seats will be allowed so the whole of Hil 16 would be closed.

daveirl

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Pigman II

daveirl wrote:

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Ireland have played almost exclusively at Lansdowne since 1970. We've played 114 times at Lansdowne since 1970 compared to only 17 times (10 of which were friendlies) at Dalymount.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

kilkennycat2004

thejollyrodger wrote:

landsdown road will defintely go ahead. It remains to be see where IRFU and the FAI will play their games. I wouldnt start expecting it will be Croke Park just yet

I wouldn't be at all convinced about this given the FAI history of incompetence & the IRFU one of sitting on its assets.
Croker is not suitable at all for most soccer games & say rugby ones v Argentina, Italy, Romania, Japan.
Look at the lack of atmosphere yesterday for the women's gaelic final up there.
I hope the GAA attitude is get the work started & we won't see ye stuck.

Big Nelly

mike65 wrote:

I think the IRFU and the FAI should not sully themselves by playing superior sports in a bigots stadium....onto Cardiff!

Mike.

Why does thread about tis always end up like tis?????? just close it now before it goes on for 5-6 pages for soccer people slagging off GAA when they havent a clue and just read the Sun quotes about what they are doing and not doing and the FAI are great! why not just look at FAI! how many years is it now they are talking about a stadium and where are they????? no where! quit slagging off the GAA because they got off there asses and built a stadium while the FAI sat around and did nothing! just because they are starting to ban bucket seats is the only reason why they have decided to build the stadium!! if that didnt happen we wud still have nothing from them!

eirebhoy

kilkennycat2004 wrote:

Croker is not suitable at all for most soccer games

Why is that? The Stade de France has a capacity of 80,000 and it'd be lucky to get 40,000 in. Croker minus Hill 16 is only an extra 20,000 more than Lansdowne, I'd say 50,000-60,000 is a certain for any qualifier.

Imposter

eirebhoy wrote:

Why is that? The Stade de France has a capacity of 80,000 and it'd be lucky to get 40,000 in. Croker minus Hill 16 is only an extra 20,000 more than Lansdowne, I'd say 50,000-60,000 is a certain for any qualifier.

Are you saying croker only holds 50-60k without Hill 16? If you are I think you are wrong. It holds almost 80k without the hill.

eirebhoy

Imposter wrote:

Are you saying croker only holds 50-60k without Hill 16? If you are I think you are wrong. It holds almost 80k without the hill.

I'd say around 60-65 thousand without the hill but the stadium doesn't need to be full every match to be worthy of opening.

por

eirebhoy wrote:

I'd say around 60-65 thousand without the hill but the stadium doesn't need to be full every match to be worthy of opening.

Capacity is about 69,000 without the Hill, anything over c35,000 is a profit.

Hairy Homer

KilkennyCat why do you like stirring **** so much? Is it because you found some of the mouse variety in your meat pie at Croke Park a few years back, for which transgression the caterers at the -oh-so-professional-outfit-amazing-that-it's-all-run-by-amateurs GAA headquarters were prosecuted and fined. (see bottom of post for main points)

Why are we having this debate at all? Why is it necessary? Why should it even be an issue if one sporting body wants to rent out on a commercial basis at a mutually agreeable time, an expensive piece of infastructure from another?

Seen the Sunday Tribune yesterday? Now I don't always agree with Diarmuid Doyle, in fact most of the time I think he's a complete arse (from Kilkenny I believe. Go ponder) but his sentiments yesterday that both the FAI and IRFU should,in their best Teresa Heinz Kerry accents, tell the GAA to go and shove it if they offer Croke Park on restrictive terms meets with my full approval.

Croke Park is NOT the issue. The Irish soccer and rugby national sides don't NEED Croke Park. What's the worst that could happen? That Dublin-based fans will have to fly to Cardiff, Manchester or Liverpool for a couple of years to watch their 'home' games? The expense involved is about the same as that incurred by supporters from down the country every time they want to go to LAnsdowne Road.

Other small countries had to play outside their borders while their stadia were beeing built. Wales did it. The Faroe Islands did it. Why are we any different?

The real sin that the GAA commit is their refusal to co-operate on infrastructure projects ANYWHERE in the country with organisations they don't control.

Take Limerick. Munster Rugby need a bigger stadium than Thomond Park. They could fill it several times over for their Heineken Cup games, but now the ERC is making noises that for the knockout games, which Munster usually qualify for, stadia of 20,000 seats minimum will be required.

So they could extend Thomond (which may or may not be possible) or they could build a new stadium in the back arse of nowhere (MAllow has been mooted) or they could co-operate with the GAA to refurbish and improve either or both of PArc Ui Caoimh in Cork or the GAelic grounds in Limerick. But this is not an option because of the GAA's crappy, outdated, exclusivist rules.

The effect that the GAA has had on people who play other sports, it once termed 'foreign and fantastic' has been terrible. This 'let them build their own 80,000 seater stadium before we share a sports hall in Bally go Backwards with them' attitude is reminiscent of Marie Antoinette without the good looks.

And you know what happened to her don't you? The 18th century equivalent of appearing on a Webcam in an Orange Boiler Suit.

Allah u Akbar.




First pars of IRish Times story January 97
Croke Park food outlet filthy and mice infested, court hears

CAFETERIAS and food outlets in Croke Park were filthy, Dublin District Court was told yesterday. One had become infested with mice, which left droppings beside, breadboards used for hot dog rolls.

A separate prosecution by the Eastern Health Board against the GAA is due to come up on January 23rd.

Yesterday, in an Eastern Health Board prosecution against Mr Michael Lawlor, trading as Concessions Ireland Ltd, which operates the food outlets, more than 30 infringements of the food hygiene regulations were outlined.

Ms Anne Marie Part, a health inspector, said a shop operated by the company at the Canal End was inspected on September 15th last, the day of the Mayo and Meath All Ireland final.

Imposter

Hairy Homer wrote:

The real sin that the GAA commit is their refusal to co-operate on infrastructure projects ANYWHERE in the country with organisations they don't control.

Take Limerick. Munster Rugby need a bigger stadium than Thomond Park. They could fill it several times over for their Heineken Cup games, but now the ERC is making noises that for the knockout games, which Munster usually qualify for, stadia of 20,000 seats minimum will be required.

So they could extend Thomond (which may or may not be possible) or they could build a new stadium in the back arse of nowhere (MAllow has been mooted) or they could co-operate with the GAA to refurbish and improve either or both of PArc Ui Caoimh in Cork or the GAelic grounds in Limerick. But this is not an option because of the GAA's crappy, outdated, exclusivist rules.

From just this part of your little tirade a few points. Is that 20k limit in? If so a lot of the ERC teams will be in trouble.

The GAA has already refurbished The Gaelic Grounds. It is now a 50k modern stadium.

And finally, you seem to be forgetting that provincial rugby is professional. They have decided that they will pay their players before bulding stadiums. Now I know i'll probably get the argument that they had to because everyone else was back but they could have developed differently and perhaps have weaker teams but a strong stadium, which no doubt would benifit them in the long term but they chose to go the other way.

The GAA have their rules and their priorities. So do Soccer and Rugby. Noone in the GAA is trying to tell the FAI or the IRFU how they should run their organisations.

Hairy Homer

Imposter wrote:

From just this part of your little tirade a few points. Is that 20k limit in? If so a lot of the ERC teams will be in trouble.

Not yet. And it's only for knockout rounds. Eg the quarter finals that Munster have qualifed for in all of the competitions since 2000.

The GAA have their rules and their priorities. So do Soccer and Rugby. Noone in the GAA is trying to tell the FAI or the IRFU how they should run their organisations.

Nobody in soccer or Rugby is trying to tell the GAA how to run the minutiae of their organisation. But paying public money (mine as much as yours) to an organisation that demands exclusive use of major infrastructure and insists that everybody should have their own 50,000 seat stadium in every small town is wrong.

And yeah. It's a tirade. Damn right it is. You want to put up a 'No Blacks No Dogs No Irish' sign mutated into 'No soccer No rugby No cricket' you can't expect others to like you for it, can you?

Imposter

Hairy Homer wrote:

Nobody in soccer or Rugby is trying to tell the GAA how to run the minutiae of their organisation.

You are right, they are not, but the soccer fans especially seem to be very quick to diss the GAA every time this argument raises it's head. They seem to forget everything that has happened in the last 20 years in irish sport and the GAA always gets the blame and not the FAI, the IRFU, or the government. I include the media in this label of soccer fans and if anything they are most at fault, as they have a voice that is listened too and what do they do, they constantly spew this biased and bigoted thrash whilst claiming that it is the GAA who are the bigoted ones.

But paying public money (mine as much as yours) to an organisation that demands exclusive use of major infrastructure and insists that everybody should have their own 50,000 seat stadium in every small town is wrong.

I've said it before and i'm sure i'll say it again but blame the government if this is how you feel and not the GAA. I do not think the GAA would have accepted the grant if there was strings attached. The government are going to grant money for Lansdowne as well and if anything this project will get more that Croker has (definitely more as a percentage of the total cost). I've no problem with them getting this money provided both the FAI and the IRFU cotribute a substantial amount as well.

And yeah. It's a tirade. Damn right it is. You want to put up a 'No Blacks No Dogs No Irish' sign mutated into 'No soccer No rugby No cricket' you can't expect others to like you for it, can you?

Yes you mightn't like it, and I don't agree with the rule myself, but it's their rules. Are you saying organisations can't define their own rules? I can see the rule being changed soon but that doesn't mean that anyone that wants can play there, which is only right as it is the GAA's stadium. They made the decision to build it and invest in their future by building the stadium and nobody but themselves should be alloweed to decide what to do with it.

daveirl

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Imposter

daveirl wrote:

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If a club/province pays it's players more than it can afford it will never be able to invest in something like a stadium. It may be good for short term results but will limit growth as having a small stadium takes away significant earnings from the club. If a club pays it's players an amount which means it can afford a stadium (over a number of years) then in the long term it will be better off. Surely the trick is to have a team that will have enough supporters to fill your stadium while building another rather than paying for a much better team which costs you money as you can't physically get any more supporters into the small stadium. What's wrong with that opinion?

kilkennycat2004

eirebhoy wrote:

Why is that? The Stade de France has a capacity of 80,000 and it'd be lucky to get 40,000 in. Croker minus Hill 16 is only an extra 20,000 more than Lansdowne, I'd say 50,000-60,000 is a certain for any qualifier.

Games of low capacity are played in regional venues but can't see any friendlies been played at flancare park, turners cross, waterford rsc etc....
The FAI stood idly by while milltown was sold for housing & the GAA bought the flower lodge.
I'll be in lansdowne wednesday nite eirebhoy, i'm not anti soccer at all but the fai are to date wasters personified.
As my thread says "Keep FAI & IRFU out till the work physically starts at Lansdowne ".

Pigman II

kilkennycat2004 wrote:

.
The FAI stood idly by while milltown was sold for housing & the GAA bought the flower lodge.
.

When Bohs were going thru tough times in late 80's it looked like Dalymount would have to be sold to commerical developers. However the FAI bought the ground (for what at time was lot of money for FAI) and leased it back to Bohs in order to save it. So sure they messed up with Milltown but at least they learnt from it and stopped it happening again to the true home of Irish football.