Temple Bar Assaults

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I presume you've all heard about this.
Scumbags Attack in Temple Bar

Well, I saw it all.

I was in Eamon Dorans last night, for a friends birthday, five of us. When we left it, at about 02.40 or thereabouts, it was lashing rain, so we headed to Merchants Arch to get a bit of shelter, one of the girls with us had a pizza to finish off. As we were standing there, one of us looked back in the direction of Temple Bar Square. There was one man on the ground, obviously unconscious, or not far from it anyway.

Another man was standing over him, kicking him about the head. He kicked him twice before we realised what actually was happening. Once we did, we ran down to the Square, and for those who know it, this was all happening at the International Phone Box there on the Square, not a long way from Merchants Arch, where Abrakebabra is. In the time it took us to get down to the scene I'd say the prone man was kicked or stamped on his head about six or seven more times. Someone tried to come to his aid, but the was kicked and called a "Paki Bastard", and he ran off. Another person, possibly a woman, kneeled down beside him, and was promptly kicked in the face, more stamping ensued, this time on both parties lying on the ground, possibly by two people.

I dialled 999, and said get someone to Temple Bar Square - "could you be more specific sir?"....what?....how more specific do you want, it's Temple bar Square ffs...get an ambulance and police down here now, he's killing people here, get them down.

By this time, I'd say about thirty or so people were scattered around the general area shouting at these scumbags to stop. Anyone who dared approach one of them was lunged at and asked "Do you want to fight me, Do you want to fight me". He went back to kick and stamp about seven or eight more times. I'll never forget the river of blood flowing down the street, you can imagine the state of these peoples heads and faces, I'll spare you the details here.

I dialled 999, Police please...."your through to the police sir"....good, get down to Temple Bar Square now, he's killing people here, he's a psycho..."Who is sir"....Who is....ffs, the bloke I rang about three minutes ago, just get down here, where are you anyway?

Eventually the perpetrator(s) seemed satisfied, and headed in the opposite direction to I had arrived, up towards the Central Bank. Not before turning back once more, one last kick.

When they got to Pal Joey's, the one man I remember clearly turned on another unfortunate. Punched in the face, kicked to the ground, dragged, kicked, punched, dragged, stamped.

I dialled 999, get down to Temple Bar Square now, get down here, he's attacking everyone, get down here before he starts on me..."On our way sir"....just hurry up.

While I was on the phone, someone ran towards me. I don't know if it was one of these people doing the attacking or not, but I turned heel, and back around towards the bank machines. I turned around again, and a man beside me said it was crazy, I could only agree. There were about ten of us now, lads, and one of us said "If we all go together we can take this one down". So we started towards him, but then eventually a squad car arrived. One of them. The Guard got out of the car and grabbed one of the scumbags. While the Guard had him by the scruff of the neck, someone threw a punch, it connected, and the Guard grabbed this person, letting go of the scumbag. He took off around to the right, around past the Foggy Dew and on to Dame St. with two Guards and ten others in chase.

On Dame St. they got three men down on the ground. The two scumbags, and my friend. When I arrived on Dame St. I told the guard that my friend had nothing to do with it, and he was let up. They took the scumbags away, and everyone headed back around to Temple Bar.

Three ambulances, people on oxygen masks, a lot of Guards. They took our names and details and said they'd be in touch. We headed home.

This morning I woke up and checked the Aertel. I don't know how, but the first person being assaulted is not dead. This is unbelievable given the brutality he was subjected to.

I headed in to Pearse St. Garda Station, and spoke with a detective. I gave him a brief description of what I have just typed here. Fair enough, he had a file with him, and he looked through it, found my details, and said he would have been contacting me anyway. He asked could I wait until later in the week to give a full statement. Seemingly they have the second part of what happened, the part outside Pal Joey's, on video, but none of the more vicious first part.

I hope the people that did this are properly dealt with, and get a custodial term. I don't hold out much hope of that though.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

see, this is what happens when nightclubs are allowed open past 1.30 in the morning

seamus

Jesus, ****ing scumbags. Someone should have tried to get their hands on a weapon. Anything long, strong and metal, and whupped him over the head. Even if you don't manage to knock him down, if you swing hard enough, you'll break some limbs.

I know I'd probably still be raging this morning if I'd seen that.

okidoki987

Sounds like a horrific night but that is the way society is/has gone with the binge drinking and drugs.

OfflerCrocGod

Mordeth wrote:

see, this is what happens when nightclubs are allowed open past 1.30 in the morning

I do hope you are being sarcastic/clever Mordeth. If you aren't I would really have to question your intelligence. If you are.....I don't think this is the sort of thing you should be cracking jokes about

sprinkles

You gotta ask the question: Where were the Guards?

They want to close nightclubs earlier to stop drunken violence and yet on any night of the week you won't find one Guard anywhere near a night club or pub (unless its Copper Face Jacks and they're off duty). More guards on the streets at night when they are needed instead of babysitting film crews in templebar during the day would be a step in the right direction. Something needs to be done but the government and the Heads in the guards don't seem to care. How many beating need to dished out on the streets at 2/3 in the morning for them to grasp this idea.

quarryman

Any idea how it started? Were the victims scumbags aswell?

By this time, I'd say about thirty or so people were scattered around the general area shouting at these scumbags to stop. Anyone who dared approach one of them was lunged at and asked "Do you want to fight me, Do you want to fight me". He went back to kick and stamp about seven or eight more times.

surely someone could have done something at this stage?

djste

Jesus Christ, that's horrific.

I really hate that ****.

Thanks for posting.

gazzer

I'd love to think that if i was with a group of mates and saw that happening that we would go over... beat the living **** out of them and dump them in the liffey but in reality i prob would just stand there in shock at do nothing....

God almighty... what type of animals are going around the streets.??? it cant just be drink related....they will prob be out today and causing more mayhem tonight....

I heard on the radio the other week about some guy who was punched in the stomach in Grafton st... when he got up him and another guy follwed the scumbag and decided to ring the police... whilst following him another few people where kicked and punched.... the first victim was onto Pearse St garda station trying to get a guard down to deal with this madman... anyways the two guys where still following the madman and when they got to o'connel st the first victim was told that the guards in Store st would have to deal with it cos it was now out of the duristiction of Pearse st... i think some Ban Garda in O'connel st finally arrested the madman.

ro_chez

Mordeth wrote:

see, this is what happens when nightclubs are allowed open past 1.30 in the morning

Are you serious??

Third_Echelon

****ing scum... they should be hung, drawn and quartered and their heads stuck on spikes of every scumbag housing estate.... that would make them think twice perhaps...

Jesus, I hope they are sent down for it... :mad:

dark_knight_ire

go on the gardai

funny i saw one of you saying the guys who done it should get the crap beaten out of them, kinda would be thinking along the same lines, but if the gardai hit them they can be landed in trouble. Where is the justice in that. Those lads are on remand living cussy then will go 2 court get free legal aid which will cost u money, then get a few months inside. thats just wrong.

Bring back public flogging

Gyck

Sounds horrific. I hate being in town at that time of night, mainly because of what you mention: random violence with apparently no law in sight.

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quarryman wrote:

Any idea how it started? Were the victims scumbags aswell?

I didn't see the very beginning of it, so no idea how it started at all.

I don't know about the original victim, so I can't really comment on his scumbaggedness, and I don't want to either. According to the detective this morning he still hasn't woken up.

me wrote:

By this time, I'd say about thirty or so people were scattered around the general area shouting at these scumbags to stop. Anyone who dared approach one of them was lunged at and asked "Do you want to fight me, Do you want to fight me". He went back to kick and stamp about seven or eight more times.

quarryman wrote:

surely someone could have done something at this stage?

No way. After what happened to te first two people who had tried to intervene, there was no way on god's green earth anyone else was going to try and go near this psycho.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

ro_chez wrote:

Are you serious??

no.. god damnit I am not serious

*sigh*

seamus

gazzer wrote:

I heard on the radio the other week about some guy who was punched in the stomach in Grafton st... when he got up him and another guy follwed the scumbag and decided to ring the police... whilst following him another few people where kicked and punched.... the first victim was onto Pearse St garda station trying to get a guard down to deal with this madman... anyways the two guys where still following the madman and when they got to o'connel st the first victim was told that the guards in Store st would have to deal with it cos it was now out of the duristiction of Pearse st... i think some Ban Garda in O'connel st finally arrested the madman.

That's pretty accurate. He started at Portobello, and was randomly decking people as he walked along. Gardai received their first phone call when he was at Harcourt St station, and by the time a Garda reacted, he was, as said, on O'Connell St and "out of our area" according to Pearse St. Funny, I thought this was one unified country (the Republic anyway), and Gardai were Gardai, and had jurisdiction no matter where they were.

About the "rivers of blood", I'm reminded of something neuro-praxis said before. Her Dad brought her into the kitchen and poured a pint of milk on the tiled/lino floor, where it went everywhere. Huge puddle. He said something like, "A person can lose up to 3 times this amount of blood without being in mortal danger." The point being that if you come upon someone with blood all over the place, it's not necessarily as bad as it seems, so don't panic.

Funny that it stuck with me, cos I can imagine how a pint of milk poured on the floor could look like loads of milk.

quarryman

seansouth wrote:

No way. After what happened to te first two people who had tried to intervene, there was no way on god's green earth anyone else was going to try and go near this psycho.

true. also it probably happened fairly quick and people can can often just stand not knowing what to do.

your friend sounds lucky he wasn't collared by the police.

Canis Lupus

its depressing to hear **** like that.... my Ma.. (arent they great) has a story about a local fella where I live who when younger was a vicious bastard who everyone was scared of and he regularly beat the crap outta ppl... till one day he faced off against someone he shouldnt have. He lost a testicle (ouch) and was a very very quiet man after that. It's my belief that prison is not an answer for this sorta crime.. Personally the the crimals should have a bar taken to them around the head and body.... till they too are beaten to a ****... then treat them without painkillers. It's never ever likely to happen in Ireland but I think that would quieten down alot of thugs who happily walk about terrorising ppl.

ixoy

Well that's made me feel depressed Absolutely disgraceful. I can't remotely fathrom those minds, even if they're whacked out on drugs. Is there any way you can follow the events and see if they're prosecuted and what sort of sentence they get? Or is that all protected?

Beruthiel

Mordeth wrote:

no.. god damnit I am not serious

*sigh*

of course you're not
what I'm betting you mean is that the 1.30am closing proposal will make not a jot of difference to this type of scumbag

I really hope he is put away for a long time

McGintyMcGoo

Even reading about that night's events sickens me. Ohhhh why cant the gardai just grab every scumbag in dublin and take them for a little ride up to the mountains, never to return!!! The irony is that if a scumbag was ever killed, you'd hear at his funeral mass that how little "shambo" was a lovely misunderstood youth who had so much to offer his community. Kill them all I say! Inject them all with a slow death virus, stick them on a deserted island and make them listen to Daniel O'Donnell CDs all day. Watch them all kill each other live on TV. Now there's an idea!!!

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ixoy wrote:

Is there any way you can follow the events and see if they're prosecuted and what sort of sentence they get? Or is that all protected?

I'd love to know that myself, really would.

The Detective this morning seemed pretty interested in what I had to say about the first part of the assaults. Maybe he'll follow up on my statement.

Just sitting here in work, telling people this, one of my colleagues is mates with one of the "intervening passers-by". He was kicked fifteen times in the head. For trying to help.

Sick world.

Third_Echelon

McGintyMcGoo wrote:

... Inject them all with a slow death virus....

They are probably doing that all by themselves.....

Civilian_Target

Just a question, if there were 30 or so of you, why didn't you's help step in. 30 v 2, no matter how much of psycho he is...

gazzer

Watch them all kill each other live on TV.

Yeah... it could be like Battle Royale Ireland... If only we could do that..

Does anybody know how many guards are out patrolling at any given weekend night in Dublin city???

ferdi

agreed, i'd like to think that if i was there i'd have organised the 30 or so people to **** him up....its the first move though, someone has to attack him first and if he is a psycho, no-one is going to want to be the first one in.

i hope those guys experience some prison love/

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Civilian_Target wrote:

Just a question, if there were 30 or so of you, why didn't you's help step in. 30 v 2, no matter how much of psycho he is...

Fair enough point.

But let me paint a clearer picture.

It was 30 random people, scattered in a wide enought area all around this animal in the midst of half killing someone. Already two people have tried and failed miserabley to intervene.

Now, there is no communication between people, what with boyfriends trying to console hyterical girlfriends, others on the phone to Emergency Services, and different people screaming and shouting at this animal to stop what he was doing. It was a horrible scene, and it takes people time to react, come out of the initial shock of seeing something like this actually unfolding.

Eventually some coherency did ensue between different parties, and about ten of us started to make for this guy, but then the Guards arrived anyway. When the Guard let him go, we all chased him around to Dame St.

SprostonGreen

Filth like this, should be abducted, tortered and killed.

okidoki987

It's pity these scumbags wouldn't pick on a 6foot4 bloke built like a ****house.

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okidoki987 wrote:

It's pity these scumbags wouldn't pick on a 6foot4 bloke built like a ****house.

Now that you say this, the original victim seemed to be quite tall, and well built. Not that it makes any difference when your head is being stamped on over and over.

Anyone else that was attacked was at random it seemed, or else people that tried to help.

sliabh

Someone should have tried to get their hands on a weapon. Anything long, strong and metal, and whupped him over the head.

A few people had mentioned sentiments like this so I thought I'd comment on this. It would not happan because even though you can imagine doing it in your head, psychologicaly most people do not have the capacity for such violence in them. With the weapon in your hand you just would not have the capability to hit another human being with it in a lethal fashion.

There was a famous study after the second word war that showed less than 25% of combat soldiers had fired their weapons in a battle and only 2% had actually done any killing. And this is amongst those that saw combat. The reason being is most people just cannot carry out such an act of violence even against someone that they hate or fear. Those that do are the ones that lack a sense of empathy with other humans. (there was a good documentary about this on CH4 a few months ago about how Western armies have since learned how to train soldiers to overcome their inate feelings not to kill. But it really f*cks with the soldiers minds afterwards when they think about what they did)

I read an account in the biography of the mountaineer Joe Simpson where they were at a party and an uninvited scumbag pulled a knife and stabbed someone. These were ultra fit climbers and there were weapons to hand (ice axes hanging on the walls) but no one did anything, because they did not have the capacity for carrying out that sort of violence.

The problem is when you do encounter the scumbag who is in the 1 or 2% that is willing to resort to ultra-violence (because we are not talking about two drunks slapping each other around here). This is what seansouth ran into.

All the loose talk about taking a weapon to someone and beating them senseless is just that - talk. On the spot in that position, I can put money on it that you would not have the bottle to do it. (and can you imagine the consequences of flunking it, the scumbag would take the weapon from you and they would have no hesitation about trying to kill you when their adreneline is flowing)

What seansouth describes, a group gets together and using safety in numbers to try and swing things is as much as you can hope for.

Fair f*cks to you seansouth, I don't know whether I would have had the balls to do it.

shurl

seansouth wrote:

Seemingly they have the second part of what happened, the part outside Pal Joey's, on video, but none of the more vicious first part.

Strange, there is a camera pointing directly at / covering Temple Bar square.!
I'm sure I've seen the feed from it in Pearse St Station. So it is working.

S.

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I posted this exact same post on another forum, and apparently the Evening Herald want to talk to me about the incident.

What say ye?

Canis Lupus

fair point..... no one likes to cause violence and its hard to find someone witha real killer instinct but ive seen it before and ill see it again that all it takes is a group to make a stand..... unless u get it entirely wrong its not that hard to tackle a person down and sit on him... attacking the person with a weapon would be silly when it would be easier to just trip him through weight of numbers something a small group of lads can do and once others see that the thug is caught everyone will gladly help.... yur forgetting that in order to stop the situation no one is going to kill the thug just stop him. but ill definitely agree that no one wants to be a good samiritan without the knowledge of backup..... thats just being human

Boggle

I have to agree with sliabh in the last post re a weapon. But its also worth pointing out that if you stroll in with an iron bar, you had better be sure you can and will use it! Otherwise you'll only lose the weapon and basically have handed the pr1ck a new weapon and a new victim....

HelterSkelter

seansouth wrote:

I posted this exact same post on another forum, and apparently the Evening Herald want to talk to me about the incident.

What say ye?

I wouldn't talk to that rag, they sensationalise everything.

I witnessed a bad assault in town one night a good few years ago. Some guy was kicking the head off another guy outside Ulster Bank across from Trinity College. Nobody tried to break it up and when the scumbag was finished he started walking up Dame Street. I followed him at a distance hoping to run into a Guard along the way (this was pre-mobile phone days for me). Anyway I lost him half way up Dame street. When I returned to the scene another girl was there who witnessed it. She called the guards and we waited about 30 mins but they didn't show up, in the meantime the injured guy was taken away by ambulance. The girl witnness and I decided to go to Pearse street and give our contact details. The Guard behind the desk took our details but seemed uninterested. Never heard anything about it again. :rolleyes:

jebusmusic

there was another big fight outside eamon dorans on saturday night aswell, around the same time. these two groups of lads just started lashing out at each other with bottles and pint glasses and just hit anyone who got in their way or was walking on the street. my friend, for some unknown reason, tried to break it up and got a punch in the face and a bottle over the head as a reward and had to get stiches in his head. all the lads who were fighting then just ran off and noone was caught, not from what i saw anyway.

ixoy

seansouth wrote:

I posted this exact same post on another forum, and apparently the Evening Herald want to talk to me about the incident.

What say ye?

Even if the paper is a rag, I'd say talk to them. Your post was quite articulate so it might help drive home to others how horrific it was, trying to seperate it from the string of assualts we commonly hear about. It's only a more detailed report like yours that makes it more "real".

If asked for a criticism, levy it at the slow response and use the points already made here as to why people didn't respond. Tell us what you choose to do.

seamus

sliabh wrote:

All the loose talk about taking a weapon to someone and beating them senseless is just that - talk. On the spot in that position, I can put money on it that you would not have the bottle to do it. (and can you imagine the consequences of flunking it, the scumbag would take the weapon from you and they would have no hesitation about trying to kill you when their adreneline is flowing)

Agreed. I probably wouldn't. Although my ethos has always been disable as opposed to kill. Metal bar over the head isn't necessarily designed to kill, rather disable by rendering one unconscious/concussed. With a clear head I know I should probably aim for the side of his knees or his lower arm (swing it hard enough so that if he attempts to block it with his hand, he breaks his hand), because he's not going to feel the pain of a broken rib or a cut on his head, but in reality I'd probably freeze or do something stupid like try and poke him *really* hard, but lamely in the chest with it, in the hope that he'll stop.

The fact of the matter is, as you say, that the majority of people cannot carry out such an act for fear of doing some serious damage, and also for fear of retribution. People won't get involved because there is a very real risk to their own lives. You'd be surprised how easily and forcefully the human survival instinct completely takes over control in those circumstances.

okidoki987

I'd talk to them and make sure they report exactly what happened.
At least then being an eye witness means they can't make it up.

adjodlo

Bloody knackers. So this happened last night i.e. Sunday?

I'm so enraged by reading that story that I was saying to myself I would've definitely tried to help...but I suppose it's different when you're there. I suppose the moral of the story is if anything like this is happening just try to get a group together to subdue the guys. You have to be prepared to take a box or two to the face though, and deal with the possiblity that the gang of you could damage the little knacker and end up getting in serious trouble for it. Still though the gaurds should have been on the scene quicker.

Shad0r

okidoki987 wrote:

I'd talk to them and make sure they report exactly what happened.
At least then being an eye witness means they can't make it up.

You obviously have no first hand experience with tabloid papers. They will print their interpretation of what you say, which is basically anything they want, spin-wise. You will have NO control over what they report.

That said I think you should talk to them. Brushing sh!t like that under the rug isnt the way to go. Sure they may sensationalise it but if you push the slow garda reaction times with them, then maybe the gaurds will be forced eventually to do something about their prescence on the streets at night.

Shad0r

Mordeth wrote:

see, this is what happens when nightclubs are allowed open past 1.30 in the morning

Oh yeah, its the closing time of nightclubs thats causing all these problems. Its that extra hour and a half of drinking time that makes these people violent. Mordeth if you were 60 years old I could believe you said that.

Closing clubs earlier isnt a solution to anything except maybe for employers and people pulling sickies cause they're hung over. Close clubs earlier and people will just start drinking earlier.

It would be nice if these problems had a simple solution like that kind of naive one. In my opinion leaving clubs open all night and placing huge fines on clubs AND the barmen for serving people too much drink would be just as effective. But I dont think thats a solution either, because this problem is much bigger than just people drinking too much.

zt

Has anybody considered that the information in this thread, could bias a court case and result in the Gardai failing to secure a prosecution against those involved?

Very clever.

sliabh

zt wrote:

Has anybody considered that the information in this thread, could bias a court case and result in the Gardai failing to secure a prosecution against those involved?

Very clever.

It's unlikely. Most of what is here is opinion apart from seansouth's account. Which he could just as easily be telling to the papers. No one has mentioned the perps name either. So I think (and I am not a legal type) that we are on safe enough ground here.

Canis Lupus

zt wrote:

Has anybody considered that the information in this thread, could bias a court case and result in the Gardai failing to secure a prosecution against those involved?

Very clever.

Can u explain why anything said here would bias a court case??????...

i can just see the court case taken all the way to the high court.

and the judge throwing the case out because of the comments on an internet site of one shad0r (judge somehow managed to include the zero in the pronunciation) and one Mordeth and so one..... jeez

_blank_

So, I rang the Herald reporter anyway.

She seemed really pushy with me, saying the Guards would tell her nothing and things like that, she wanted me to tall* my story as it appears here.

She also wanted to use my full name in the report, and publish a photo of me, possibly with my friends who were there too.

I told her no way.

But she did ask me to ask my friends, so I have done that at least give them the chance if they want to.

* edit.

I was going to edit the typo, but I think the word makes more sense as we are talking about the Herald.

Canis Lupus

despite said thug never finding out who u were I wouldnt in a million years allow yur name or photo to be published.... ever...

Calibos

Shad0r, Mordeth already clarified that it was a sarcstic remark.

As to whether you would intervene. Its probably a lot harder to intervene when its someone you don't know, ie not friends or family. While you still feel massive empathy for the victim its hard for your conscious mind feeling the empathy to over-come the sub concsious survival instinct. Friends and family is another matter. Thats how the big brawls happen which was instigated by just two lads starting to scrap, but then his mate joins to help and then the other lads mate and then the other mates mate etc etc.

Personally I witnessed an attack on someone I didn't know and couldn't bring myself to intervene in any meaningful way other than shouting "leave him alone, he's on the ground FFS". I have never actually ever been in a fight in my life or inflicted violence on anyone or anything or thought myself capable of same. However when two lads armed with a 'de-commisioned' gun tried to rob our shop a few years ago, the guy with the gun got a 14Ib bowling ball in its bag swung with force into his back sending him flying and knocking the gun out of his hands...and into my fathers . Could have killed the f*cker but the thought never entered my head, just that he was waving a gun in my dads face. (I was young looking for my age at the time, so the scumbags scoping the place out thought, its only a kid with a schoolbag reading a magazine.....little did they know it was the shopowners 21 year old son with a bowling ball at his feet, just back from the bowling alley)

ie, I have delivered what could be considered 'deadly' force which I never would have thought myself capable of, but I also know that I couldn't have brought myself to use 'deadly' force in Temple Bar the other night unless it was my brothers or father etc getting the kicking. Don't beat yourself up about it

zt

The initial posting is basically a full witness statement. Witnesses are not allowed to discuss or compare versions before a court case. Anybody who witnessed the assualt can fill in any blanks with the very detailed account given by seansouth.

Since the information is now in the public domain, a defence lawyer could request that it is not allowed into evidence.

The judge wouldn't mention individuals posters. He would name and potentially issue proceedings against the operators of the web site.

Canis Lupus wrote:

Can u explain why anything said here would bias a court case??????...

i can just see the court case taken all the way to the high court.

and the judge throwing the case out because of the comments on an internet site of one shad0r (judge somehow managed to include the zero in the pronunciation) and one Mordeth and so one..... jeez

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zt wrote:

The judge wouldn't mention individuals posters. He would name and potentially issue proceedings against the operators of the web site.

Perhaps I should remove the Original Post then?