Bigley gets Irish passport!

pickarooney

mike65 wrote:

I doubt he knows Aherns first name.

Actually, what is his first name? Robert? Albert? Cuthbert?

sovtek

And of course...."there's no dealing with tear-or-ests"

flogen

Superman wrote:

I'm sorry I can't stand the media and the way it is makng such a big deal about this eejit, At the end of the day all he is an oppurtunist (like any other crook) who went to a war zone to make excessive amounts of money for risking his life. He knew the risks and the dangers but still went, and shock! Horror! he was taken hostage.I think he got what was coming too him, ok its **** for anyone to die like that but we shouldn't really be that suprised.
Since his capture at least 250 civilians have being killed in Palestine and Iraq but we don't ever hear about that, let alone get an interview with the families. I think this whole Ken Bigley thing really highlights the problem with the media nowadays.
As for him being Irish I think its a sham, Ok he is entitled to a passport but he should have to apply like any normal person. I can't a refugee from some
african country getting a passport as quick. He is about as irish as a union jack.

I think the quicker they let him out or top him the better, either way I couldn't give 2 fu<ks.

That really is rediculous. While he probably is getting paid a fair amount more for his work in Iraq, that doesnt make him a crook. The fact is that without people working in the country Iraq would remain the pile of rubble the US and UK has made it. There is plenty to say some of the big companies are crooks, and some of the politicians are crooks, but not the workers.
As far as other deaths, there have been many many deaths in or around the region, but what could we have done? They wern't held hostage, they were probably just shot or blown up by either the US or by terrorist groups, with Bigley (and anyone else under kidnap) we have a chance of doing something, and I'm happy to suggest that that little something may be having an effect.
I agree that the passport thing is unusual, but I'm willing to overlook his "queue skipping" if it results in his life being saved. The reason why he is entitled to a passport over an african person is because he has an Irish parent, it would be legal anyway Ahern just sped up the process.

As Stark pointed out, knowning the risks of a situations doesn't mean you dont get sympathy when you fall into harm. He may have known being kidnapped was a possibility but any decent human would still be willing to do something, even an email to Al Jazerra, to help out.

flogen

sceptre

pickarooney wrote:

Actually, what is his first name? Robert? Albert? Cuthbert?

My money's on Blobert but I don't want to throw this any more off-topic.

Actually apparently his full name is Patrick Bartholemew Ahern. That should make it easier for degree-finding if any journos read this. Look under "Ahern, P" or "Ó hEachtairn, P" boys

uncivilservant

pickarooney wrote:

Actually, what is his first name? Robert? Albert? Cuthbert?

Bertram

A Dub in Glasgo

Bigley is entitled to an Irish passport because his parent(s) is/are Irish. Why he did not have one up to know is something I would ask.

My 2 sons (2 & 5) were born in Glasgow. They are currently on our Irish passports. I would imagine that they will get their own Irish passport when they are older. If they decide against this and get a UK passport that is their choice but for someone on here to say Bigley is not entitled to a passport is just plain wrong. You do not have to live in Ireland to be Irish.

mise

Thinking Ken Bigley getting an Irish passport is a bit of a joke. He is not an Irish citizen, he never asked for this passport, and he has never looked for one in the past. While all everyone wants is for him to be freed, Dermot Ahern saying that this would convince his captors that he is an Irish citizen annoys me. I know of someone who was born in Ireland and has been living in Englad for the last 40 years, (she was 18 when she moved to England) who has been trying to get an Irish passport for the past 15 years, with no luck. Its convenient now for his family to proclaim their Irish roots. Agreed if it aids in his release, it would be worth it, but seriously doubt they'll be fooled.

A Dub in Glasgo

Does the person you know have the long form of her birth certificate? If so, she will get an Irish passport.

mise

Im not sure why she hasnt been given a passport. I'm sure she has everything she can get, she has been applying for a long time.

100gSoma

FatherTed wrote:

It's funny how some kids born in Ireland cannot get a passport while the government bends over backwards to get Bigley one. Plus, how well does he know Amhrán na bhFiann? Still, if it gets him freed, it might have been worth it.

Jeeezzz.... Theres no bending over backwards! hs mother was born in DUBLIN!!! not Nigeria. Hei s more than entitled to one. And if it was my sibling over there, I'd want one coughed up immediately!

100gSoma

Deleted User wrote:

Hmmm... I wonder if we can hand out Irish Passports to any detainees that the US have and haven't charged?

What makes an Irish passport so wonderful? We don't have much political clout, and these Iraqi's are hardly afraid of our awesome army...

Personally, I think its a disgrace. He's not Irish. /Shrugs. Or is he going to come over here if he's freed, and swear allegience to the state in one of our courts? I don't think so.

I actually can't believe the attitude of some of you people. Such a fcuking xenophobic group of inbreds. Racism alive and well in Ireland eh? yeah off with his head. He's a brit. fcuk him.

If I emigrate to the USA and my american child is a hostage ever, I'd want an Irish passport for him. Does he not deserve one because I left.
The govt. sold 100s of passports to people with no connectino to this country in 1980s and 1990s? didn't hear much of you shout about it then. Rich arabs who wanted access to Europe, shady bolivian businessmen(drug dealers) etc. They all got Irish passports for cash. This mans mother is Irish. So stop bitching. "does he know the words to the soldiers song"? does 90% of Irish people? "will he pledge alligence to the state"? some of the most unintelligent things I have ever read. Ah but sure, god bless the Oirish. The silly peasants.

Why would they care if he's Irish or not? These people can see similarities in the Irish struggle against old imperialism, and their battle to get US and Brits from their lands...

An Iraqi cleric who met Mr Bigley on Saturday has been reported as saying that the kidnappers "clearly stated to me that they have no fight with the Irish people, but were unsure if he was an Irishman or an Englishman". Imam Syed al-Kareem said: "The Irish have fought like us to wipe the stain of English imperialism, murder and rape from their lands."

I wonder if it was anyones brother or sister or father or mother, would they change their tune? Or would they be like, "fcuk em, he's a brit"

Most of us have relations, cousins, family etc over in the UK. It's only 30 minutes away. Well Ken has an Irish relation. His MOTHER.

He is Irish. His mother is Irish, so by inheritance, he is too.

No. He's not Irish. If he was Irish he wouldn't have needed a passport, he'd already have one. His mother may be Irish, but that doesn't make him Irish in my eyes. I'm Irish because I was born, and contribute to Ireland.

He's British. Not Irish.

I actually can't believe the attitude of some of you people. Such a fcuking xenophobic group of inbreds. Racism alive and well in Ireland eh? yeah off with his head. He's a brit. fcuk him.

Where did I mention that its just because he's British? I feel the same if it happened to an Frenchman, or an aussie. Stop jumping to conclusions.

Most of us have relations, cousins, family etc over in the UK. It's only 30 minutes away. Well Ken has an Irish relation. His MOTHER.

wow. I have a brother living in the UK. His daughter is British. Does that allow me to claim that I'm british also? No. It doesn't. Nor should it.

100gSoma

I suppose I'll be upset if he comes over and pledges alligence..... and then signs on.

Typical Irish comment that. Surprised nobody said it yet. He's cleaning us out! arghh.... He'll have a medical card soon! aRGH!

be proud of your views.

Quigs Snr

No but it makes your niece Irish too. Legally if she wants an Irish passport she is entitled to one. That makes her Irish. She was born in the UK so it also makes her British. Call her a mongrel perhaps ?

Anyway, half the feckin Irish soccer team qualify for Ireland same as Ken Bigley does and I'll bet you cheer them on. So shut up. The Irish government is trying to help to save a mans life and use our 'neutral' position and anti brit heritage to do so. If they succeed, fair play. How can you have any problems with that ? I suggest you download those execution videos and tell me would you leave a man (even one who knew the risks), to that fate, you would like f***.

seamus

Deleted User wrote:

If he was Irish he wouldn't have needed a passport, he'd already have one.

So having a passport for a country makes one a citizen of that country? Better tell the millions of Americans who don't hold a passport to fúck off out of the US then.

By all definitions, by the Irish Constitution (the definition of everything our country is) he is Irish. Whatever you may like to think about not being Irish if you don't live here, you're wrong. Plain and simple. He may not be Irish in your opinion, but this is not a grey area, where opinion holds sway. It's black and white. He's entitled to Irish citizenship.

100gSoma

Deleted User wrote:

No. He's not Irish. If he was Irish he wouldn't have needed a passport, he'd already have one. His mother may be Irish, but that doesn't make him Irish in my eyes. I'm Irish because I was born, and contribute to Ireland..

Congratulations. you contribute! so your Irish. Wahoo... you earned your Irishness through contibution. I think its time to read the constitution there bub.

Deleted User wrote:

He's British. Not Irish.

Not anymore my friend. He is Irish as of yesterday morning.

Deleted User wrote:

wow. I have a brother living in the UK. His daughter is British. Does that allow me to claim that I'm british also? No. It doesn't. Nor should it.

No why should it? What has that comment above got to do with what we are discussing? Nothing at all. Your defferring attention away from your initial comments. your brother has a daughter so should that make you entitled to be british. eh no? who said it should? Keep your eye on the ball.
If your MOTHER! or FATHER! were born in the UK you would be entitled. Not your brothers daughter. You following this? I'll try and say it simpler. If either of your PARENTS!!!!! were born in the UK not your niece. you following.
Didn;t think so. Ah well.

The catcholic church has been thinking for Irish people so long now you have lost the ability to think for yourself. there should really be no 'negative' connotations from Ken getting the Irish citizenship he is ENTITLED to under our CONSTITUTION, if his family feel it will in some way help him live. NONE!

100gSoma

Quigs Snr wrote:

No but it makes your niece Irish too. Legally if she wants an Irish passport she is entitled to one. That makes her Irish. She was born in the UK so it also makes her British. Call her a mongrel perhaps ?

Anyway, half the feckin Irish soccer team qualify for Ireland same as Ken Bigley does and I'll bet you cheer them on. So shut up. The Irish government is trying to help to save a mans life and use our 'neutral' position and anti brit heritage to do so. If they succeed, fair play. How can you have any problems with that ? I suggest you download those execution videos and tell me would you leave a man (even one who knew the risks), to that fate, you would like f***.

Thank you Quigs Snr and Seamus. I retract my comments about all Irish people being xenophobes. Im Irish and I am not, and neither are you people. It just pains me to read certain other comments from 'Irish' people.
He's not Irish, he's british, blah di blah. He is fully entitled to be irish, and if it will save his life, absolutely its right to get it. nobody sees the bigger picture here! the man is on the floor in a cell for 3 weeks. he has family who miss him. "but he's not Irish!!! he's not!" idiots who say stuff like this.

Anyway, half the feckin Irish soccer team qualify for Ireland same as Ken Bigley does and I'll bet you cheer them on. So shut up.

Another assumption. I don't. Do you?

How can you have any problems with that ? I suggest you download those execution videos and tell me would you leave a man (even one who knew the risks), to that fate, you would like f***.

I've seen them. It doesn't make a difference to me.

So having a passport for a country makes one a citizen of that country? Better tell the millions of Americans who don't hold a passport to fúck off out of the US then.

No. But I believe that a passport describes your allegience. And until you swear or contribute to that nation you're not entitled to the passport. This is a belief. I'm not telling you to agree with me.

Whatever you may like to think about not being Irish if you don't live here, you're wrong. Plain and simple. He may not be Irish in your opinion, but this is not a grey area, where opinion holds sway. It's black and white. He's entitled to Irish citizenship.

Fair enough.

No but it makes your niece Irish too. Legally if she wants an Irish passport she is entitled to one. That makes her Irish. She was born in the UK so it also makes her British. Call her a mongrel perhaps ?

Call her a mongrel and I'll smash your head in. :mad:

She's British because she lives and has taken citiozenship in the UK. Its that simple. That's my opinion. And the thing is I don't see anything wrong with being British. Or French, or Irish etc. But I do believe that you're only entitled to a passport or citizenship if you're actively involved in that country.

A Dub in Glasgo

Deleted User wrote:

No. He's not Irish. If he was Irish he wouldn't have needed a passport, he'd already have one. His mother may be Irish, but that doesn't make him Irish in my eyes. I'm Irish because I was born, and contribute to Ireland.

He's British. Not Irish.



Where did I mention that its just because he's British? I feel the same if it happened to an Frenchman, or an aussie. Stop jumping to conclusions.



wow. I have a brother living in the UK. His daughter is British. Does that allow me to claim that I'm british also? No. It doesn't. Nor should it.

In your eyes, he is not Irish. In the eyes of the state he is Irish. I take it you will not be cheering for the non-Irish born players that are playing France this weekend. Only reserving your cheer for the Irish born players?

You do not have to live in Ireland to be Irish!!

100gSoma

Quigs Snr wrote:

I suggest you download those execution videos and tell me would you leave a man (even one who knew the risks), to that fate, you would like f***.

I'd also like to ad for the negative posters, that Ken Bigley is in Iraq over 20 years working! He was not over there for a quick buck in the past year etc.
And Im sure he knew the risks.

100gSoma

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

In your eyes, he is not Irish. In the eyes of the state he is Irish. I take it you will not be cheering for the non-Irish born players that are playing France this weekend. Only reserving your cheer for the Irish born players?

You do not have to live in Ireland to be Irish!!

Well said Dub in Glasgow. you do not have to live here or 'contribute' to be Irish. 95% of us in here got citizenship through paternity. When you wer e'born' you did not contribute anything! In fact you probabaly cost money, so forget this whole 'contribution' attitude. It's very 'Irish' as they say.

100gSoma

Deleted User wrote:

She's British because she lives and has taken citiozenship in the UK. Its that simple. That's my opinion. ... But I do believe that you're only entitled to a passport or citizenship if you're actively involved in that country.

Grand. Right thats that settled. It's your 'opinions' and your 'beliefs'. They have absolutely no bareing on reality in this case. but thats grand. no point in even discussing your posts now as they are 'beliefs'. not fact.

The FACT is you are entitled to a passport/citizenship REGARDLESS of how 'actively involved' you are in this country and most others too. Citizenship though paternity. Believe it. Tis fact.

My 'opinion' is I hope Bigley gets out alive. not because of what passports he holds, but because I have seen the execution videos, and Bigley is an engineer not a soldier. My 'opinion' is chopping heads off is not good.

Well said Dub in Glasgow. you do not have to live here or 'contribute' to be Irish.

Thats not the problem I have with this.

I believe to gain irish citizenship you need to be able to contribute to the country, but thats neitehr here nor there. However, your statements just support the idea that any african or refugee that has a child here in Ireland, can get a passport/citizenship for that child.

Sure, this is an extreme case (Bigley), however, the case remains, that we have recently voted to curtail open citizenship. Bit of a backtrack.

A Dub in Glasgo

The recent referendum was not about closing citizenship to people who have Irish parents/Grandparents.

100gSoma

Deleted User wrote:

Thats not the problem I have with this.

I believe to gain irish citizenship you need to be able to contribute to the country, but thats neitehr here nor there. However, your statements just support the idea that any african or refugee that has a child here in Ireland, can get a passport/citizenship for that child.

Sure, this is an extreme case (Bigley), however, the case remains, that we have recently voted to curtail open citizenship. Bit of a backtrack.

your missing this whole "Citizenship through Paternity" thing aren't you Klaz?
I'll try one more time only...

Bigleys mother was BORN in IRELAND and 'probably' contributed(a word you love) in some way or maybe her father did (Bigleys grandfather) etc etc

An african refugee whose mother arrived off a boat 9 months ago has 'contributed' nothing, and most likley has been an expence since shes been here. She was not BORN in Dublin. So how can her child gain "Citizenship through paternity" when the mother was BORN in NIGERIA.

Is anyone else having a hard time understanding how this works?

seamus

Deleted User wrote:

we have recently voted to curtail open citizenship. Bit of a backtrack.

The outcome of the referendum is irrelevent to this case or any like it, past, present or future. It would not affect Bigley even if he was born after the new consitution comes into effect.

Bigleys mother was BORN in IRELAND and 'probably' contributed(a word you love) in some way or maybe her father did (Bigleys grandfather) etc etc

An african refugee whose mother arrived off a boat 9 months ago has 'contributed' nothing, and most likley has been an expence since shes been here. She was not BORN in Dublin. So how can her child gain "Citizenship through paternity" when the mother was BORN in NIGERIA.

Okies. Thanks for the correction. I withdraw my original statement.

I misunderstood the Referendum a wee bit.

100gSoma

Deleted User wrote:

Okies. Thanks for the correction. I withdraw my original statement.

I misunderstood the Referendum a wee bit.

Thats ok, so did probably half the people who voted in it

mike65

Just an aside, did anyone see that Billy Connelly put it foot in it?
Saying he "wished they'd just get on with it" which I presume is reference to be-heading rather than handing Bigley over. Also I'm half-expecting Paul Bigley to announce he's running for Parliment on an anti-war ticket any day now...

Mike.

Superman

Stark wrote:

Uhm. Lots of people go into jobs "knowing the risk". It doesn't mean we should be apathetic to their plight when something goes wrong. By your reasoning, if you were getting paid to operate heavy machinery and you got a limb trapped or something, then noone should come and help you because "you knew the risks".

Exactly he knew the risk and got taken hostage, I don't think the news is so shocking that he needs a slot on every news channel on TV! To me him on the news is similar to Autotrader dedicating pages to crash victims!

flogen wrote:

That really is rediculous. While he probably is getting paid a fair amount more for his work in Iraq, that doesnt make him a crook. The fact is that without people working in the country Iraq would remain the pile of rubble the US and UK has made it. There is plenty to say some of the big companies are crooks, and some of the politicians are crooks, but not the workers...... there have been many many deaths in or around the region, but what could we have done?

I don't know where to start! your reply is full if gaping holes, for instance he may be a worker but i'm sure he could of still earned a living in England doing normal work, please don't try to project him as some sort of down trodden worker who has no choice in his job!
Was he made work in Iraq? or is he just there for the money? cause to me there seems to be shi+ all else in iraq at the mo.(note sarcasm)

Also I love the way you suggest we mail Al-Jazeera with out deepest heartfelt plea's for him to be safe, this is ridiculous! I wonder would you recomend I do the same about terror in palestinian refugees and express our disgust at Israeli terror.

Also it think would also be great if everyday you could put a post of with a tip about how to be a "decent human" as you seem to be an authority on the matter! :cool: