Immersion Heater Setup

orange247

Just moved into a new gaff in the last week and am trying to get used to using the timed immersion electric water heating thingy.

We have a Horstmann E7 quartz timer, with the standard boost function. This is attached to a twin immersion (i.e. 2 seperate elements, one at the top and one at the bottom) As far as I'm aware the regular timed immersion should be connected to the bottom element and the boost connected to the top element. However when the timed immersion comes on the top element is used (I can feel the heat). I haven't tried the boost function yet but I'm guessing its connected to the bottom element.

The reason I ask this is cos the hot water seems to run out a little too quickly for my liking. Generally in the morning my girlfriend has a shower first. When I have a shower generally towards the middle or end the hot water runs out.

I know its not the lagging cos its one of those industrial lagged tanks, so it must be the way the immersions wired right?

Any information would be great cos I'd like to get on to my landlord to sort it out but I'd don't want to be wasting his or an electricians time if I'm wrong.

Cheers
Dave

BTW Its a Goldshield apartment so will the ESB be any source of information?

narommy

Yip, It sounds like you have awiring problem. The boost should work on the top because it heats less water faster.

The way they're wired could depend on circumstances tho and the landlord could argue that the the current way used less electricity. The way it's wired would suit those with electric showers cos they only need small amount if water to wash face etc. and only need a boost for a long hot bath.

You probably don't need to get an electrician in. Just make sure it's turned off at the fuse. Use a quaility phase tester screwdriver and open up the box. Test the wires with the tester and then just swap the two red ones. It's easy once you're careful

ZENER

The obvious suggestion here is to shower together - much more fun er I mean economical !!

Anyway !! How confident are you with electrics ? Considering this is a newish apartment I'd guess that Brown and Blue are for used Phase and Neutral respectively and not Red and Black as was the case years ago.

How long does the clock switch on the Immersion for ?
Have you tried lengthening the on time or have it come on earlier?
Does the Immersion use the night rate power like the Storage heaters ? If so this ends at 8 AM I think, how is the clock set, does its time overlap this ?

Just some suggestions that may help. I'd strongly recommend getting someone who is qualified to look at this if you are in any way unsure, you could potentially make the whole water system in your place live. If you must check,take the caps off the immersion heaters and check them while changing the state of the timer. Let us know the results.

ZEN

orange247

Thanks for that. I'm gonna test the boost tonight, but what you've said sounds right, timed for the sink(at the top) and boost for the bath etc. We have a simple mixer tap/shower and rarely have baths. The two elements are both rated at 3kw so power consumption should be the same, but obviously heat distribution is different cos of their positioning, plus we're on nightsaver. To be honest I'd rather have a nice warm shower even if i had to pay a euro more for it. The elements are in two seperate boxes, so I'd have to swap all the connections? (as per sketch?)

Cheers
Dave

orange247

hi zen

The Horstmann E7quartz doen't seem to have user changeable timer, It comes on about 2am and goes off at about sevenish(I think). It uses nightrate alright.

It has a basic clock and a boost switch as per below:
http://www.horstmann.co.uk/pages/water.html

Not much info on their page though but i did find this elsewhere:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Technical/DataSheets/Horstmann/E7Q.htm

Dave

Borzoi

orange247 wrote:

. The elements are in two seperate boxes, so I'd have to swap all the connections? (as per sketch?)

You have the choice of switching the wiring over at the timer, or at the two element terminal boxes. It won't make any difference, but one may be more convenient for you.

Having a similar system I find 3-4 hours on the timer is enough for a few showers in the morning with some hot water left for evening dishes or w/machine

orange247

Hi borzoi

with your system though i'm guessing your timer heats with the bottom element right? Giving you plently of water as opposed to my two showers worth with the top element

Dave

narommy

I'm colour blind but i suppose you are right about red actually being brown. Haven't done any electrical damage yet tho. Done alot of electrical work tho.

Those wires really do need swapping. If it's on night saver it should be heating the whole tank from the bottom at night using the cheaper night rate. the boost at the top is just for heating up the water that is already warm from the night time. It would be daft to be using the boost to heat the full tank using expensive day time electricity.

orange247

Thanks lads for everything, gonna try the boost tonite and i'll report back tomorrow. anybody with a similar system i.e. horstmann on twin immersion let us know how its setup

Thanks
Dave

Borzoi

orange247 wrote:

Hi borzoi

with your system though i'm guessing your timer heats with the bottom element right? Giving you plently of water as opposed to my two showers worth with the top element

Dave

Yes, absolutely. Just giving the info as a guide for when you do switch.

Stoner

Just as a quick note, if its a new building (after 1998) you are entitled to a user Operation and Maintenance manual. The electricians who did the house are ment to give this to the builder who inturn issues it to you, so by contacting the architect involved in the project you can have them request the manual for you cos architects are top of the ladder in most cases. In the case of the house with storage heating its usually the E7 and the slow release vent on the storage heaters that you need info on, the combined storage/panel heater in the livingroom is another confussing box of tricks. All you get is the documentation that was in the box , but its enough. I also really recommend that if you are unsure then stay away from it, an error might go unfound untill the night rate supply kicks in at night or something. and dont bother with the ESB, they are involved at the design stage only and instruct on what heaters to put where etc, what you need is a housebashing electrician.

Carobar

I too have a Hortsmann Economy 7 Quartz timer (with a 2 hour booster dial). The thing is the timer in it is broken - i.e i haven't been able to avail of the nightsaver rate yet. As soon as i switch it to the "timed" position the booster turns itself on in about 10 minutes or so! so basically i just have to leave it off completely all night and just use the booster solely on its own for a couple of hours during the day. the booster dial itself is also broken - its supposed to turn itself off after 2 hours but it just stays in the one spot all the time. its really annoying as i never have hot water in the morning.
i have been talking to someone about this problem and they said that i'll need to get a new one. the thing is do i need to get an electrician to fit it or is it possible to fit it myself (bearing in mind i'm not the best at DIY)?? Or is it possible to have the timer I have now fixed?

orange247

Got the leccy round to swap the leads, and now have oodles of hot water sweet.

As to your problem Carobar, I'd probably go get an electronic timer as opposed to replacing the E7 with a new one. The E7 timer only works off-peak and can only be changed from a 3 to 7 hour cycle as opposed to an specific time.

Secondly there's DIY and there's electricity. You can mess around with a bit of wood and some screws but not with electricity, if your not confident don't attempt it. As previous posts have mentioned you could end making your whole water system live, which is a lot worse than an ould tingle down the arm!

Carobar

Thanks for the tip Orange247!
Just wondering - would i need to go to an electrical shop to buy the electronic timer or do i contact the electrician and get one off him?? I'm completely new to all this sort of stuff which is why I'm clueless!

orange247

Shop around for the timer, your electrician may or may not get it for you at trade prices i.e. ex vat. Check with them or any decent hardware/builders suppliers store