Fitzwilliam Business League - Boards.ie Team

Krusty_Clown

Evil_Bilbo wrote:

Another great performance from team Eagle Star last night. One guy came about 5th on his table. All remaining 4 of us came 2nd.

Well played.. Any Eagle Star players on table 1?

Iago

dirkey_wynne wrote:

I win some?

Of course, we all do, look we're all learning here and whiel some people are further ahead than others we all started at the same spot.

Some players are really good at the math and probability, DeV and Hector I'm looking at you here..

Some people are good at reading people KenCleary and Hyzepher for example

and some people are good at being lucky and hitting hands that they should never have been involved in, that would be me

The point is that as time goes on you'll improve your game and you should start to win more than you lose, I'm still at the early stages in this path, but due to a combination of luck and more balls than sense I've done ok so far.

You'll get more luck and better cards next time and you'll do better as a result, don't sweat it

dirkey_wynne

Iago wrote:

Of course, we all do, look we're all learning here and whiel some people are further ahead than others we all started at the same spot.

Some players are really good at the math and probability, DeV and Hector I'm looking at you here..

Some people are good at reading people KenCleary and Hyzepher for example

and some people are good at being lucky and hitting hands that they should never have been involved in, that would be me

The point is that as time goes on you'll improve your game and you should start to win more than you lose, I'm still at the early stages in this path, but due to a combination of luck and more balls than sense I've done ok so far.

You'll get more luck and better cards next time and you'll do better as a result, don't sweat it

I guess so...nice one coach! Nah, it's just I've been playing regularly in the Sng's after work for the last couple of months - I'm about even there, have taken money a few times. And I've placed in the Wednesday 20in twice last month. I would just like to translate some of that success to the BL! Not overly sweating as everybody is relaxed about the whole thing, but at the same time it's just frustrating - worse when you know yourself you've made a bad play.

DapperGent

Waylander wrote:

River came, rags again, I did not hit but only had 300 left in chips so I threw
them in, he called and showed J Q o. He did not even have a draw. He built my stack from 2300 to 4800 with nothing.

Those were all my chips too. That guy broke my brain.

DeVore

Its like me and the BSOP.
I've placed in tons of tournies and this month alone I'm up about €2K on a string of good results but you think I could so much as place in top 3 in what is essentially a Sit-n-Go! Once out of 8 tries... Thats worse then if we just flipped coins, I'd expect to have won ~2-3 times then! I'm beginning to think its a mental block... either that or I'm cursed!

Anyway, last year in the BL I went through something similar (though, to be fair, at least I wasnt first off my table ...fnarr ). My head was a total mess and Hyzepher was trying to talk me round and that night we got our first top slot (Luke and I both won that night). You'd swear I'd won the WSOP I was that feckin' happy.

The BL is a lottery, its like walking through a darkened room filled with syringes and teddie bears. You might get something nice and cuddly and you might get stuck. You cant even read half of them because THEY dont know what they have!

DeV.
ps: Evil Bilbo, I was dealing on your table (upstairs under the telly) until the real dealer arrived. Which were you?

Evil_Bilbo

DEV -

I was just on yer right. no offence but I was glad to see you go. that other dealer ALWAYS seems to bring me good luck (you kept giving me 83o!!):)

Bit of a ****e table (the table, not the players), but what the hell - it beats playing at home. And for all you "Boo-Hoo what happened, its a lottery, they're all shyte and dont know what theyre doing" blowhards. Get a life.

You were beaten fair and square - just coz they got lucky dosent mean they're crap, they're just more willing to gamble. Your superiority complex regarding poker (which is right in some instances - people calling with nothing etc) is a bit annyoing tbh. As far as I could see ye just play really tight.

bohsman

thats where the maths come into it, these people willing to gamble might have a 10/1 chance of hitting and be perfecly happy to take even money, I wish I was your bookie

karlh

Evil_Bilbo wrote:

And for all you "Boo-Hoo what happened, its a lottery, they're all shyte and dont know what theyre doing" blowhards. Get a life.

You were beaten fair and square - just coz they got lucky dosent mean they're crap, they're just more willing to gamble. Your superiority complex regarding poker (which is right in some instances - people calling with nothing etc) is a bit annyoing tbh. As far as I could see ye just play really tight.

Let the games begin......Dev can you get some dedicated server space for this thread!?

Waylander

Bilbo as I am the only one who has actually discussed a hand in detail I can only assume your little rant was directed at me. If so i am feeling a little hard done by as this is one of the few times I have criticised somebodies play on these boards. Also I won the hand so it was not sour grapes, it was a series of awful calls by a player who had none of the flop and no draws!

biteme

DapperGent wrote:

Those were all my chips too. That guy broke my brain.

Felt bad for you when he called all the way with T3o and filled his straight. I even went to push the chips to you cuz i didn't see he had hit

Evil_Bilbo

Waylander - you misunderstood me. I completely agree with you about that guy calling all the way with absolutely nothing. that was just odd. He musnt even understand whats good and whats not.

What I am giving out about is the constant comments by people such as "Oh, it was pretty good for business league standards" and that whole "holier than thou" attitude. The constant putting-down of the standard of play, the "he shouldnt have stayed in" thing, the "he got lucky" thing. Every second post in this thread has some of that laced into it. Fair enough, the lack of pre-flop raises with monster hands MAY be looked at as poor play, but I dont see you boards fellas doing it either. It seems yer afraid someone will stay in with rags and beat you on a lucky flop. Whats wrong with staying in with rags if the blinds are cheap?

All this complaining about the standards of play - if we're all so sh1te, how come boards and suited aces arent winning. And if ye were winning, would ye still think the standard was crap? (I dont think ye would). Its tough to win a table, and ye dont seem to be giving credit to those who do better than ye. Ye're too busy complaining.

Hyzepher

Evil Bilbo - your last post is a bit conflicting. One one hand you agree with Waylander and on the other you defend the standard of the BL.

For me, the standard of the BL is low. There are some good players - your team has many - but there are many bad players. Now as far as the BL goes that is to be expected. And we are a victim of our own ability - hard to play against 8 novice players who will call your pre-flop raise when you are holding AA - only to be outdrawn by 23o making 2 pair.

The point is that many BL players win pots purely by luck - something that we try and minimise in our games. Therefore as BL players generate large stacks by luck some will feel a little put-out. That's the nature of a freeze-out BL.

Hyzepher

dirkey_wynne

Evil_Bilbo wrote:

What I am giving out about is the constant comments by people such as "Oh, it was pretty good for business league standards" and that whole "holier than thou" attitude. The constant putting-down of the standard of play, the "he shouldnt have stayed in" thing, the "he got lucky" thing. Every second post in this thread has some of that laced into it. Fair enough, the lack of pre-flop raises with monster hands MAY be looked at as poor play, but I dont see you boards fellas doing it either. It seems yer afraid someone will stay in with rags and beat you on a lucky flop. Whats wrong with staying in with rags if the blinds are cheap?

All this complaining about the standards of play - if we're all so sh1te, how come boards and suited aces arent winning. And if ye were winning, would ye still think the standard was crap? (I dont think ye would). Its tough to win a table, and ye dont seem to be giving credit to those who do better than ye. Ye're too busy complaining.

I've never seen a SA or Boards player not raise with a good hand. I raised with my AQ yesterday, which was pretty much the hand that busted me out. But I'm not complaining about that hand - after that I played it badly and the guy who busted me out with AK did well. As for your other piece about whether or not ppl from boards or SA would be moaning should they be winning, you're wrong. I didn't play this last year. The boards team (now the SA team) did. Yet I was informed that teh standard isn't as good as that which you'll get in a tournie in the Fitz, such as the 20 in on a Wednesday etc. And what's wrong with saying someone "got lucky" if they did? Why have you a problem with that??

DeVore

Ok, time out.

EB: Firstly, take the heat out of it please. Civility is a requirement,
Secondly you are being very defensive about US and YOU. How do you know we dont consider Eagle Star to be good players? There ARE good players in the BL, I dont know the ES players and they could easily all be excellent players. That doesnt negate the statement (one you agree with) that there are a lot of poor players in the league too. Thats the way it goes and thats why the BL-experienced guys on the team arent taking it that seriously, its not a test of skill, its a bit of fun!

Fair enough, the lack of pre-flop raises with monster hands MAY be looked at as poor play, but I dont see you boards fellas doing it either. It seems yer afraid someone will stay in with rags and beat you on a lucky flop.

You've obviously never played against me mate heheheh... I'll raise with half anything!

All this complaining about the standards of play - if we're all so sh1te, how come boards and suited aces arent winning.

Please point me at any ANY serious post where its even implied that Eagle Star specifically are poor players. Just one. Please.
Why are you taking this as a slight on your team?

Have you played in the 100 game on Mon? The 50/50 game on Friday? The big game at the end of the month? Even the 20-rebuy game?

Are you honestly saying you think the standard of the BL begins to touch those tournies? its not a slight on the players in the BL, its just a fact that those tournies are populated by players who have been playing for decades and are very experienced. That makes a difference.

how come boards and suited aces arent winning

Also, do you seriously believe that the best player in the WSOP this coming year will win it? In fact do you think the best player in the world will EVER win a bracelet? He wont because noone can surive being called by 8000 people

Heres a shocker for you though, maybe... just maybe, we ARENT the best team int he league this year!
I can guaruntee you something though. We'll be in the running. We need some luck on our side or more specifically a lack of outrageous luck on the part of the T3 callers...

And if ye were winning, would ye still think the standard was crap? (I dont think ye would). Its tough to win a table, and ye dont seem to be giving credit to those who do better than ye. Ye're too busy complaining.

Er....Suited Aces team are the reigning champions (we played as boards.ie last time out). We stormed it last year, going into the final night 49 points ahead if memory serves. Ironically we were all FAR worse players then we are today!
So there you go, we won it outright by a country mile last time out, kinda blows a hole in your accusation neh? Ironically we thought the standard was low then too... but of course its low, its partly populated by complete beginners... none of us sprang from the womb as competent players! And if we were honestly deriding new players, WHY THE HELL WOULD WE SET UP A SITE DEDICATED TO THEM? Why run new-player-friendly tournies?

Personally I think you want to set us up as the straw-men so that you can fight the power.

Finally, not everyone who write here is in Suited Aces and I dont think you can refer to us all as "You Boards people". I mean, YOU write here... which group do you fall into then?

Could you please relax, chill out and take the chip off your shoulder. Noones seriously having a go at you or ES and you agree with us that the standard is highly mottled varying from people who have a seriously good record of wins behind them (and I recognise a few of them accross the teams) to people who dont seem to know what a big blind is.

You're tilting at windmills mate, you even agree with what we're saying but you perceive some slight on your poker play that simply isnt there...

DeV.

Marq

Worst poker I've ever seen, and as a dealer I see a lot of terrible poker.

"call", "call", "call", "call", "call" "check"
"check", "check", "check", "check", "check", "check"
"check", "check", "check", "check", "check", "check"
"check", "check", "check", "check", "I bet 50"
"fold", "fold", "fold", "call", "fold"

"Jack High?" "Yeah that wins."

Hectorjelly

Marq wrote:

Worst poker I've ever seen, and as a dealer I see a lot of terrible poker.

"call", "call", "call", "call", "call" "check"
"check", "check", "check", "check", "check", "check"
"check", "check", "check", "check", "check", "check"
"check", "check", "check", "check", "I bet 50"
"fold", "fold", "fold", "call", "fold"

"Jack High?" "Yeah that wins."

Loose passive, my favourite

mewso

If you were on Tom's right Evil b does that make you the one who knocked me out with pocket kings? Well done.

Krusty_Clown

Evil_Bilbo wrote:

Fair enough, the lack of pre-flop raises with monster hands MAY be looked at as poor play, but I dont see you boards fellas doing it either.

That would have been my comment you're referring to. I most certainly did raise any good hands I received pre-flop. All three of them. QQ, AK, and AJ and I won each of these hands (and many more besides!). Oh, and I didn't infer from my comment that anyone was playing poorly.. I quite enjoy the fact that my opponents don't raise good hands pre-flop, as it gives me a great opportunity to play mediocre cards for very cheap. I also like the fact that when I make a pre-flop raise, everyone folds.. Fellow Business Leaguers, keep up the good work! Come play some money tournaments too. I'll keep you a seat..

I don't think the standard is very good. I'm not saying everyone is a crap poker player (pot/kettle), I am suggesting however, that many of the participants haven't played much texas hold'em (or even much poker for that matter). Of the two tables I've played, they've been littered with string bets, out of turn calls/folds/raises, below minimum raises, people walking away from the table not realising they won their all-in hand, mis-read hands, etc., etc.

Hell, if I can spot it, it must be bad!

Lafortezza

I won my table. I think I'll win the WSOP too cos if I can win in the BL then I'm great.

<edit>: Just thinking about peoples comments on the standard of play in the BL, its terrible. Really really bad. But most of the people who play in it have only just begun playing the game so they're hardly to blame.
I find it really interesting having to adjust your game to your particular table and how each player plays.
Usually each table is characterised by
1) very loose-passive play. Everyone wants to see the flop and they want to see if for cheap. so If you have a reasonable hand like 78s or Ax suited you can usually limp and see what the flop brings. Pre-flop raises are rare and never that big.

2) People stay in and call your post-flop bets with a very very wide range of hands. If you're betting big on flop and turn, its sometimes better to slow down on the river and try to get a cheap showdown just in case you beaten by a hidden monster. I've seen people betting Top Pair Top Kicker and being called all the way, and then the caller checks behind on the river and reveals a full house or flopped straight. The game is all about survival not amassing chips.

3) If you fold every single hand and just get blinded away, you should finish 4th, 5th at worst. Something to remember.

4) I've tried playing 2 ways, limping to see many flops with reasonable hands, and playing very very tight and valuing position strongly. Bet your strong hands (even over bet them to drive out weak draws that'll cripple you if they hit). So far playing uber tight seems to work, but then again you need to get your share of strong starting hands.

We should all remember how bad we were when we started. My first time in the Fitz I flopped a poker and made a 1.5times the pot bet. Nobody called.

AmarilloFats

Oh it's all a bit heated in here..


If you truely wanted to beat the BL you should buy everyone there a ABC poker book - "Fold AJo in early position" etc. Then they would be easy to beat, you might actually be able to bluff them of a pair of 4's....

Just a point, I play 1-2 NL 6 Seater on laddies.. I have been a consistent winner for 12 months or so…. But I can’t win in the BL…4th and 6th . It’s a game of variables and once one of those variables in altered you must adapt.. Raising pre-flop with AK on the button and betting the pot on the raggedy flop is a –EV play against a calling station..Bets on the turn and river are much more effective….
It's hard to adapt to the BL game ..and it might even lead to acquiring bad habits...but the best players can adapt to any game texture and change there game accordingly.

Evil_Bilbo

Okay - I think it has got a bit heated in here.

My one point (which nobody seemed to get - which was a bit annoying) was that until now, ye seemed to be tarring everyone with the same (low standard) brush, which kinda got on my tits since ye werent winning - thats it.

But now I know what ye go in on (raising preflop with good position or two decent hole cards )

Evil_Bilbo

Just wondering - any news on the results?

Waylander

In fairness Bilbo I think you are being a bit over sensitive here. I do not think that anybody meant to imply that they thought every player in the BL was a poor player. But there are alot of players there that are of a poor standard. Team ES are obviously doing pretty well so they can be excluded form the generalisation. But there are also alot of players who are using the leaguee to learn the game, and as a result are making bad plays. I think allot of the players involved would admit this themselves.

Evil_Bilbo

What can I say? I'm the shy, sensitive type!

Krusty_Clown

Have you tried the 'personal issues' board?

DeVore

In engineering they have the concept of signal and noise. In a high standard game of poker, the signal comes through strongly. In a low standard game of poker there is so much "noise" that its almost impossible to perceive the signal. Its still there but its effect is far less.
In this analogy signal is you're likelihood of winning / your skill and noise is the amount of pure dumb luck that is introduced by the T3 callers...

DeV.

Imposter

DeVore wrote:

In this analogy signal is you're likelihood of winning / your skill and noise is the amount of pure dumb luck that is introduced by the T3 callers...

DeV.

So did I get this right:
Signal is the Suited Aces, Boards and possible Eagle Star teams this year.
Noise is the Boards team last year.

Hyzepher

DeV - clear and concise as ever

Hyzepher

Evil_Bilbo

Any word at all on the results lads?

kencleary

Ok guys tomorrows team (assuming everyone's available) is:

Kencleary
Golly
Waylander
Karlh
Dirkey_Wynne

I've almost got a proper roster drawn up so i'll mail that around soonand I have everybodys mobile too in case of emergenices.