Bush Kerry Polls - Undecided Stats?

PH01

Anyone know that the percentage of undecided in those polls? It would be interesting to know if this figure is going up or down.

athena 2000

It appears to be around 7% at the moment.
Of those likely to vote, the hardcore undecided will probably wait until the last moment to make up their minds.

recent poll - Oct. 2 to Oct. 4

muffen

Polls look alright, although I cannot understand how Bush can have that many supporters. That man is bad for everything... enviroment, security, economy...

It's funny to see the opinions of other countries.. there was a poll in a Swedish newspaper just two days ago, and they asked the question: "Who do you wish wins the American Election". Results:
Bush: around 12%
Kerry: 85%
Don't care: 3%

I think 108000 people voted

PH01

athena 2000 wrote:

It appears to be around 7% at the moment.
Of those likely to vote, the hardcore undecided will probably wait until the last moment to make up their minds.

recent poll - Oct. 2 to Oct. 4

Increasing from 4% to 7% is quite a jump. I wonder who's support is more flacky?

chill

muffen wrote:

Polls look alright, although I cannot understand how Bush can have that many supporters. That man is bad for everything... enviroment, security, economy...

I agree. But he has succeeded in wielding the most potent political card of all... FEAR. He has the core Amercian public scared out fo their wits because of one attack.
It is incredible in hindsight. There have been no more attacks on the US, a land of 300 milion people. Yet the people are living in constant fear drummed up by the Bush admin and fed on a daily basis by the Elite Right Wing Media such as FoxNews.

snide

yea chill, i know what you mean, i mean geeze, it was only 3000 innocent lives, what's the big deal? dang that elite right wing media, like fox news and....um....er...wait...it'll come to me...

Memnoch

snide wrote:

yea chill, i know what you mean, i mean geeze, it was only 3000 innocent lives, what's the big deal? dang that elite right wing media, like fox news and....um....er...wait...it'll come to me...

yeah 3000 innocent lives, whose death has been used to justify the death of another 40,000+ lives? thanks to the likes of fox news and co

snide

40,000? I'm not sure what your number refers to, but according to antiwar.com, the number of Iraqi civilian deaths is estimated between 13,182 and 15,248 since the US invaded if we can believe antiwar.com. Any civilian deaths are unaccepatable and tragic, but these numbers pale in comparison to the number of Iraqi civilian deaths under Saddam, which are estimated around 600,000, or 70 to 125 per day during his regime. The Iraqi people have suffered mightily, but at least now there is hope for a democratic government and an end to tyranny.

SkepticOne

snide wrote:

Any civilian deaths are unaccepatable and tragic, but these numbers pale in comparison to the number of Iraqi civilian deaths under Saddam, which are estimated around 600,000, or 70 to 125 per day during his regime.

I think it needs to be pointed out that most of the 600,000 were not as a result of sanctions and the corruption of the Oil for food programme by Saddam.

Zulu

snide wrote:

The Iraqi people have suffered mightily, but at least now there is hope for a democratic government and an end to tyranny.

Yes - now that Saddam has gone, there is peace and prosperity on the streets! :rolleyes:

No one is saying Saddam was good - but life was better then than it is currently now. ....and as for your "democratic government" - where is that exactly? Currently there is a puppet administration, and talk of gerrymandering in the elections. "End of tyranny", two words, Abu Ghraib.

Hobbes

Where are people getting the figure from?

Zulu

Hobbes wrote:

Where are people getting the figure from?

Good question, since the american military refuse to count the civilian death toll.

<edited for spelling!>

RuggieBear

Zulu wrote:

Currently there is a puppet administration, and talk of gerrymandering in the elections.

But if it's good enough for the world's greatest democracy.....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3724372.stm

Sleepy

Interesting read RuggieBear...

RuggieBear

Sleepy wrote:

Interesting read RuggieBear...

Yeah it's scary stuff innit. :eek:

Actually studied american jusrisdictional conglomeration and fragmentation in one of my courses at college. You should see LA...it's so blatent and accepted. People are getting totally disenfranchised.....

Why it can't be done on proper geographical grounds is beyond me....

mycroft

Zulu wrote:

Good question, since the american military refuse to count the civilian death toll.

Really surprised Hobbes hasn't heard of Iraqi body count.net

snide wrote:

number of Iraqi civilian deaths under Saddam, which are estimated around 600,000, or 70 to 125 per day during his regime. The Iraqi people have suffered mightily, but at least now there is hope for a democratic government and an end to tyranny.

Theres little hope for a democratic government, and we could do the whole "US Administration of which some of whom were members of the administration who funded and armed Saddam" and how Bush's father screwed the Kurds over at the end of the last war, and then I suppose we could point out that many of the deaths were a direct result of the US sanctions even though we know now Saddam has inflated that figured, and I could point out those sanctions have now proven effective in stopping Saddam from making weapons of mass destruction, and how the "freedom of the iraqi people" was not the reason we were lead to war but rather the threat posed by Saddam, and finally we could point out the many regiemes across the globe breaching human rights left right and center (Pakistan, Burma, Indonesia) and how these brutal dicators are currently recieving US aid and support, and that makes a mockery of the hollow US shouts about wanting to spread freedom across the globe.

Like I said, I could say all that but we've heard it all before......

Hobbes

mycroft wrote:

Really surprised Hobbes hasn't heard of Iraqi body count.net

That is only for the current Iraq war. I am talking about the number of deaths under Saddam.

mycroft

Hobbes wrote:

That is only for the current Iraq war. I am talking about the number of deaths under Saddam.

Knew you wouldn't have let me down big guy.

This article here looks at statistics in Iraq.

But where does the claim of mass death or even genocide in Iraq originate? In short, with the Iraqi government itself. Saddam Husayn's government has since the mid-1990s claimed that United Nations sanctions had resulted in more than a million deaths. Surprisingly, Baghdad also prevented humanitarian organizations to conduct their own fieldwork to verify the claims. Unable to conduct their own large-scale surveying, some humanitarian organizations adopted Iraqi government figures, thus amplifying the claim. In 1995, for example, UNICEF estimated that more than 1.2 million Iraqis had died as a result of sanctions, while the US-based International Action Coalition claimed that by 1997, the economic embargo upon Iraq had killed 1.4 million people.(8)

It's simply unclear what the figure is. The US govt have often refuted the UNCIEF report but were incapable of coming up with figures of there own.

One thing is clear, sanctions did hurt and cripple the weakest and most vunerable members of Iraqi society. Saddam had a vested interest in keeping sanctions going and inflating the numbers in order to illicit sympathy.

We'll never know the true cost of sanctions.

daveirl

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