Prize fund question

Terminator04

I posted a question under the Merrion €50 pay day site but got no reply.

Could you please get back to me

DapperGent

Ones there now. More complete one tomorrow.

Terminator04

Sorry you must think i'm a real pain in the arse but i looked at the results posted and it does not add up.
The guy working said there was 66 players which is €3300....

Help :eek:

DapperGent

As I said in the other thread it was nearer 60 than 66.

DeVore

The total number of seats allocated was 65. One was a spare stack for one more late comer. One was our internet winner. That makes 63.

63 = 3150 (which actually turned out to be 3125 as someone seems to have unintentionally stiffed us for 25 probably thinking that it was the same as the Fitz and we didnt notice in the commotion).

3125 is excluding the reg and as I explained at the break, we are raking (150) out of the pool for a free entry seat into the €500 big game we plan next spring. We will have something of the order of 3 seats up for grabs from the eventual winners.
We didnt expect to rake it this month for the seat (hence the surprise announcement from me) but with the number of runners we felt it was time to start. I made that decision and I stand by it.

The remaining 25 went on sundries (two taxi fares to pickup the laptop and a replacement plug and fuse if you must know).



So, now that I've been entirely clear and upfront with you, any chance you could do me the same courtesy because you just arrived, you know us, every single post you have made on this site is about the prize fund and is clearly the reason you signed up and to top it all off, I did some chasing on your IP and you wouldnt BELIEVE where it traces to (and I'm not about to reveal that information).

Only one other person has EVER used that IP and as luck would have it, its a regular poker poster on this site.

So why dont we drop the song and dance and you say whatever is on your mind and I'll explain as best I can...

DeV.

kipple

I have a number of things to say about this general topic:


1. I remember being told there was 67 people playing, you only accounted for 64?


2. Let me see if I got this right.
a) You get people to sign up to gaming club where you get a cut of their rake and offer one ticket to the 50 euro game to those who sigh up
b) Then you dont even pay for the ticket yourselves you get us the people who support you to pay for this
c) We get told after the fact


3. If I go to Tesco I expect to know how much an item costs. A poker tournament is no different. I expect the price pool to be the number of players by 50. Anything else is dishonest.


4. If you have expenses change an extra euro rake, or 2 euro just tell people


5. Publish the rules that you are using. Not publishing the rules is sloppy. For example the game has re-started after the break how long do you have to take you seat? If the rules are published you protect your selves from any unpleasantness .


T.

mewso

1. I honestly dont know how many players we had. I will asume that it was 63 as has been announced above. In any case who told you 66. Did you get their name? Was a black shirt?
2. These are valid points and we should look at this.
3. & 4. Agreed. We do have costs. Perhaps we should do something but would people pay an extra €1/€2 reg. fee?
5. We play the rules of the house be it the Merrion or the Fitz and interesting you should mention it we are getting a list of rules from the merrion and we will attempt the same from the Fitz.

The bottom line is that most players enjoy these tournaments and are happy with the way they are run. Feedback is welcome and constantly asked for.

kipple

Posts asking for people to post their names or other usernames should be off topic and deleted by the moderator. I have seen this happen a number of times here.


From the suited aces website:

7 full tables starting

By my maths:
7 full tables is 70 people. I saw people turned away because all the tables were full.
70*50 = 3,500
Prize money = 2950
Difference = 550 euro.


T.

Hyzepher

Kipple - I would ask you stop posting information of a 'challenging' nature without having any facts to back it up.

We organise these events and we ask for nothing in return bar publicity for our website. A fact that I am happy for you to quote is that the Merrion make more money on these events then we do - in fact the tip to the dealer at the end of the night far exceeds any money we get.

We have already run 3 prior events at the Merrion - at a loss and you don't hear any of us looking for money back.

In light of the confusion, we will now have a policy of announcing the exact headcount and prize pool BEFORE the event starts - the breakdown of the final table prizes will be given at that point.

We are not spending hours of our spare time to try and pull a fast one for a few bucks and I would ask you to take this into account when you post accusations towards us.

At every time we are trying to be up front and honest and sometimes things don't always go to plan. But we are still committed to bringing the right game to those who want it.

If you want any further details then simply OM me and I will endeavour to get it to you.

And once again I must thank you all for your support by attend this Suited Aces events, and I hope to see you at the Fitz on 16th

Hyzepher

mewso

I asked you if it was a black shirt that told you 66. i.e. answers to the effect of "No it was not a black shirt so I accept it may not be a reliable source" would suffice. Not looking for their address. Kipple if you are on some kind of mission then fine I can go post in a thread I'm more interested in.
There were not 10 players to a table. As I say I cannot personally confirm the number of players and thats why I accept the number given. If you do not accept the number of players that has been published here then we'll have to agree to disagree because it's fruitless arguing over that especially when it only serves your purposes to infer certain things.

For example I could say that I saw nobody turned away and someone told me there were 3 empty seats and someone else told me that there were 8 player s on 2 tables and 9 on the rest.
9*5=45
2*8=16
total=61
-3
total=58
58*€50=€2900
Prize money=€2950
Hang we are out of pocket €50

I wont say this because it's based on hearsay and does nobody any favours.

kipple

1. On your web site it says "7 full tables". Usually a full table is 10 people
2. I never answered your question about who told me there was 66 people
3. Did Tom make an announcement about the numbers at one stage?
4. My Table had 10 people
5. The Table opposite me had 10 people
6. I saw people turned away, I was facing the door
7. I did not post an "accusation" about the Merrion event
8. I think taking a rake from people who sigh up for gamingclub via Suited Aces is not "up front and honest" in my opinion
9. Sending invites to sign up for gamingclub via the emails you collected at the event previously is not "up front and honest" in my opinion and possibly illegal
10. Running a gambling event where the odds are not what was advertised is not "up front and honest" in my opinion and possibly illegal (I am referring to the 150)

It is like I bet on a horse at 10 to 1 but unknown to me I was only getting 9 to 1 but thats OK because this horse didnt win.

Good night

T.

mewso

kipple wrote:

1. On your web site it says "7 full tables". Usually a full table is 10 people

No a full table is 9 or 10.

kipple wrote:

2. I never answered your question about who told me there was 66 people

Didn't say you did. You said "Posts asking for people to post their names or other usernames should be off topic and deleted by the moderator. I have seen this happen a number of times here." and I said I didn't ask you that. Read my post again.

kipple wrote:

3. Did Tom make an announcement about the numbers at one stage?

I can't remember if he did or not. I'm sure he can answer that.

kipple wrote:

4. My Table had 10 people
5. The Table opposite me had 10 people
6. I saw people turned away, I was facing the door

My table had 9. I didn't see anyone turned away but I'll take your word for it.

kipple wrote:

7. I did not post an "accusation" about the Merrion event

See my post above and tell what purpose your calculations served other than to cast doubt. I won't call it an accusation but you know exactly why you put those caculations up there.

kipple wrote:

8. I think taking a rake from people who sigh up for gamingclub via Suited Aces is not "up front and honest" in my opinion

Fair enough. I won't repeat what I said above but you seem to want to re-iterate this even though I accepted this point already.

kipple wrote:

9. Sending invites to sign up for gamingclub via the emails you collected at the event previously is not "up front and honest" in my opinion and possibly illegal

As before we need to look at this. We are not experts on the law and we are not trying to be dishonest. We tried a few ideas. This is something Gaming Club provides and why they provide something like this if it's illegal I don't know.

kipple wrote:

10. Running a gambling event where the odds are not what was advertised is not "up front and honest" in my opinion and possibly illegal (I am referring to the 150)

It is like I bet on a horse at 10 to 1 but unknown to me I was only getting 9 to 1 but thats OK because this horse didnt win.

We'll probably have to say this 1000 times Kipple but we're trying different ideas. With negative feedback we are willing to rethink everything. Thats what it's all about. I think you have made your mind up. So be it.

henbane

I'm not a suited ace but as most of you are probably aware, I don't brook pimping on this forum where I spot it and take a pretty broad view of pimping so I will endeavour to address some of these points from that point of view.

Aren't lists great. You can make 3 points look like ten.

kipple wrote:

1. On your web site it says "7 full tables". Usually a full table is 10 people
2. I never answered your question about who told me there was 66 people
3. Did Tom make an announcement about the numbers at one stage?
4. My Table had 10 people
5. The Table opposite me had 10 people
6. I saw people turned away, I was facing the door

This is one point. I can only guess that lafortezza's tale on the website is full of boyish rhetoric/girlish enthusiasm. I wasn't at the event but have no reason to doubt dev's numbers given he was the tournament director for the evening.

8. I think taking a rake from people who sigh up for gamingclub via Suited Aces is not "up front and honest" in my opinion

I think taking a rake when someone signs up through your own site is normal and legit. I told cormie to fúck off back to poker.ie if he wanted to peddle affiliate links and thus far suited aces have kept their affiliate linking on their own site which is fine by me. Rakeback schemes are available elsewhere and anyone wishing to avail has that freedom.

9. Sending invites to sign up for gamingclub via the emails you collected at the event previously is not "up front and honest" in my opinion and possibly illegal

I think shouting "illegal" whenever you aren't happy with a business practice is the last refuge of someone without a valid point. You signed up for an email newsletter. You got emailed a link which would generate some revenue for them - shock horror. You ask for spam, it ceases to be spam.

10. Running a gambling event where the odds are not what was advertised is not "up front and honest" in my opinion and possibly illegal (I am referring to the 150)

This was fúcking stupid on their part, not illegal. Muso has acknowledged as much in this thread.

Just had a quick trawl through the board to make sure I'm not talking through my árse and apparently I am... What's with the affiliate linking here
http://www.myaffiliateprogram.com/u/pokersch/b.asp?id=1842? is not the base address of the pokerschool. On further investigation it seems that someone from suited aces has been a naughty boy... don't make me go off on one!

Hyzepher

I have rectified that oversight!

Hyzepher

DeVore

Kipple, this is Boards not SA.Com, I'll say what I f*cking please.

I have clearly explained what was done, you've decided to take umbrage with that, ok. But if you call me a liar again there'll be tourble. I dont lie, not to you, not to anyone.

If you dont like our tournament then dont come. Sorry but I'm fuming here and I dont care what you think of me you've been itching for this row for some time so come on, lets have it!

I seated the tables, I know how much I paid mages for reg, I accomodated the late comers, I did the maths.

If you've got something to say other then we should have been more on the ball about when we started the rake for the big game and announced it at the start, then say it.
Otherwise bark all day little doggie cos I take REALLY F*CKING BADLY To being called a liar.

DeV.

Terminator04

I do not like your tone. I'm glad you checked the ip address well done.
Yes i use the Bet fair terminals and i was confused about the prize money and you get the hump cause i dare make a queary....

I asked the blonde bird in the card room how many players their were and she said she got REG for 66 players.

So dont get the bone with me as it appears you really dont know what the hell was going on!!!!!!

DeVore

I paid Mags (I'll thank you not to refer to her as "the blonde bird" on my site). She wasnt in the room at all for the entire tournie.
I payed her the regs, I took the names on my laptop I did the maths on the prize fund and I still have the spreadsheet and the seating arrangement.

From the first post you made here you've wanted to have a go so drop the facade that you are a simple player come here to help us attract more players... you came here to make trouble for you own reasons, whatever they are. Every single post you've posted has been about the prizefund while two-facedly asking for information to help us "attract more players".

I dont know who you are or what you want to do here apart from make trouble but I've had enough of it. Feel free to fúck off any time you see fit.

DeV.

Terminator04

So who are we to believe?

The blonde bird oooh do beg my pardon Mags who you gave the reg money to or you..
And if you think i've got nothing better to do other than pull your tourney to pieces your mistaken.
FACT i asked a question
FACT you have the hump
FACT you run that tourney and yes you are answerable.

Kipple i will be speaking to some one in the Merrion i suggest you do the same.
Some one should get to the bottom of this JOKE

Hyzepher

Ok I think at this stage we are going around in circles. I wasn't there myself last Monday but I am going to take it upon myself to get to the bottom of it. If there was a mistake regarding the prize fund - and it would be grossly unfair to think that anything was done deliberately, then I will personnaly add funds to the next tournie to ensure fair play.

Hyzepher

Lafortezza

kipple wrote:

1. On your web site it says "7 full tables". Usually a full table is 10 people

In my report on SA.com the "7 full tables" refers to 7 tables of 9 players each, which as far as I know is the proper amount of people to have at at poker table. Those were as far as I know the starting numbers.

kipple wrote:

2. I never answered your question about who told me there was 66 people

Was it a Suited Aces person?

kipple wrote:

4. My Table had 10 people
5. The Table opposite me had 10 people

Was this at the very start of the tournament? The Merrion tourney director guy was shifting people around constantly to keep the numbers even.

kipple wrote:

6. I saw people turned away, I was facing the door.

As I remember it we had 6 tables ready to deal and DeV and Dapper had to rush to accomodate late comers in making the 7th table. I doubt they turned anyone away, more likely people assumed it had started and went away themselves. Or else they were just having a looksee at what was going on. Did you talk to these people?

Its great having this forum (and the new one on SA.com) for people to give us feedback. Positive or Negative its all good and will make the stuff we organise better. Keep the comments coming.

JohnJohn

I was in the merrion on Wen and when I asked the word was they received the reg for 66 players on Mon. I am the third person to say that there was 66 people ther on Mon and I see that there is a shortfall in the prize given out. It would be great if a person from the merrion could come and say what happened as anything that happens in their casino is their responsibility and we deserve an answer and I want an answer. I was ther and my table was full at 10 people.

I hope we are not going to get an "it was resting in my account" type of excuse and it would be very sad if one member of suitedaces was how will I say it not a team player.

See you in the casino,
John

DapperGent

What do you mean "the word"? Did you ask Mags or Dara?

The Merrion recieved €315 in reg equating to 63 players, ie the 63 players that were there.

There weren't 66 players there were 63. I don't know how many times we can say this.

Go to the people in the merrion. Ask them what their reg was. Ask the right people. Don't just repeat an tired bit of hearsay. They will say it was €315.

I for one am getting sick and tired of this.

Krusty_Clown

JohnJohn wrote:

I was in the merrion on Wen and when I asked the word was they received the reg for 66 players on Mon. I am the third person to say that there was 66 people ther on Mon and I see that there is a shortfall in the prize given out. It would be great if a person from the merrion could come and say what happened as anything that happens in their casino is their responsibility and we deserve an answer and I want an answer. I was ther and my table was full at 10 people.

I hope we are not going to get an "it was resting in my account" type of excuse and it would be very sad if one member of suitedaces was how will I say it not a team player.

See you in the casino,
John

Give it a rest.. Take it off-line.. It doesn't make for interesting reading..

I'm particularly glad to have an opportunity to play the games the SA guys have been organising for us.. I have no doubts about their integrity.. If you're not happy about the way these tournies are run, the answer is simple. Don't attend..

Hyzepher

Does no one actually read MY posts - I have already staed that I am looking into this. There is no point in posting any more 'hearsay' etc. and to be honest I resent to implication that one of SA is 'not a team player'.

Hyzepher

JuliusFranco

this is really getting silly

if yis have a problem don't come to SA events in future. I personally thought it was great and i've loads of respect for the SA people who in their spare time provide an excellent website, excellent forum, ran an excellent tournament (under quite a bit of pressure) and don't need to listen to the rubbish that's been posted on this site.

I read DeVore's explanation and it adds up. For the record, I was there and there were 9 at my table at the start. I saw people come in, have a look and then leave without talking to anybody, if that means anything.

Let's just see what Hyzepher has to say

Keep up the good work SA, I'm a better poker player because of you

DeVore

I'll say it again, there were 64 regs handed over. There were 63 runners in the prize pool because we gave a free ticket to our internet qualifier for whom we had to pay the reg. Beyond that I've explained it. Anyone who wants to meet me and go to the Merrion together is more then welcome to PM me and arrange it.

Isnt it amazing though, the bitterness and nastiness that comes out when you stick your head up and try and organise something for others.

You think I would pocket money from this? Do the fooking maths.
You're assertion (an incorrect one that is) is that 66 people paid in (no mention of our internet winner or the spare seat we put out either I note).

We say 63.

Thats 150 difference. Between 8 of us. For which I worked (and didnt even fooking PLAY in the tournie I organised) 6 hours while I had 'flu. So thats 20 quid each or about 3 Euro an hour (presuming I shared my ill gotten gains with my fellow conspirators, if not surely they'd be asking questions too? Oh yes, and I shared it with them even though I did the lions share of the work that evening.... yeah right).


I'd have made A WHOLE LOT MORE by going round to the Fitz and dealing for them as I do from time to time. I'd have made TRIPLE that in fact.

I charge 150 an hour as a contract project manager. WHY THE FOOK WOULD I BOTHER SKIMMING A TOURNEY AND PUT UP WITH THIS BULL****!

Thanks Julius and Karl and others who've expressed thanks etc.
As Hyzepher has said, next time we'll announce the total runners, prize pool and deduction for the big game at the very outset and you can get up and count the motherfnckers yourselves if you like.


DeV.

ionapaul

Hold on................................how many players were there again?

Just kidding - people get very worked up when it comes to their money and any real or imagined messing with it. It is ludicrous to suggest you or the other organisers did anything nefarious. You are right to be upset.

DeVore

I spoke to Dara the manager in the Merrion last night. Both she and I will make ourselves available any night next week for anyone who wishes to query this. She gave me her card but for privacy reasons I dont want to give her details out here.
PM me and we will both meet anyone any night next week.

From now on as Hyzepher said, right at the VERY START of the evening we will announce the runners, the prize pool, any reductions and at the break we'll announce the prize structure (that takes a some "a bit of there and on to there" so it takes us the break to sort it out). You can then check that it all adds up and if you arent happy you can get up and leave before a card lands and we'll refund your cash.

Personally, I'd rather you didnt come in the first place.


Thread closed.

DeV.