Crowd angered by Connolly's 'get on with it' hostage joke

Kone

Key points

• One joke too far for Billy Connolly?
• Comedian makes gag over hostage Ken Bigley's plight

Key quote
"Perhaps I shouldn’t be saying this ... aren’t you the same as me, don’t you wish they would just get on with it ?" - Billy Connolly - saying what he shouldn't

Story in full :

BILLY Connolly has carved a career out of his outrageous sense of humour, but the Scottish stand-up comic appears to have made a joke too far after touching on the plight of British hostage Kenneth Bigley in Iraq.

The 61-year-old comedian told a London audience during an on-stage live performance that he wished Mr Bigley’s captors, who have threatened to behead the British engineer as they have two Americans, would "get on with it".

The joke, made during a show on Monday night, was met with jeers from the audience at the Carling Apollo, Hammersmith. One man shouted: "You’re talking about a man’s life, Billy." Connolly apparently responded with a four-letter expletive.

During his routine, Connolly also touched on the subject of Bigley’s Thai wife, Sombat, remarking that she was far younger than her husband. Paul Bigley, who has been campaigning for his brother’s release, said that he was not a fan of the Scottish comedian’s material.

He said: "He’s a very charming chap. I’m not commenting. He’s not my type. Each to their own - if that’s what turns him on. I don’t like his humour anyway. If you want to be entertained by a person of that calibre, by all means go and queue up in the rain.

"That’s my comment; that’s all I’m going to say."

Connolly was also condemned by Bashir Maan, the Scottish representative of the Muslim Council of Britain, who said that at a time when people were doing all they could to secure Mr Bigley’s release the remark was "terrible".

He said: "That’s in rather terrible taste, especially when in their own way everyone is doing their bit to help ensure that Ken Bigley comes back safe and well. Across the country people are hoping and praying that he comes back alive, and I would expect people to behave with a bit more consideration and compassion.

"This is not a situation that is light-hearted in any way. I myself recently wrote to a newspaper that in the worst-case scenario if Mr Bigley does not come back alive it will be the fault of Mr Blair for blindly following Mr Bush, and even that upset some people. This comedian has gone too far by trying to make a joke out of a tough situation. The hostage images are difficult for Mr Bigley’s family, so this sort of thing does not help."

Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his Tawhid and Jihad fundamentalist group snatched Mr Bigley, 62, and his two American colleagues in Baghdad on 16 September.

The Americans have been beheaded and the British engineer has been seen pleading for his life on video footage released by his captors, with the British government insisting that it will not negotiate with terrorists.

The images of hostages being beheaded or pleading for their lives have provided some of the most harrowing of the entire conflict in Iraq.

Recent media reports in Kuwait claimed that the fundamentalist group were considering selling Mr Bigley to another militant group, who would demand a cash ransom. The more moderate terrorists are thought to be the same group that released two Italian prisoners last week.

Connolly is reported to have told the audience that he wished the captors would get on with the execution of Mr Bigley.

During his show, Connolly was reported to have told the audience: "Perhaps I shouldn’t be saying this ... aren’t you the same as me, don’t you wish they would just get on with it ?"

He went on to crack a joke about Mr Bigley’s Thai wife, Sombat: "What is it with him and that young Asian wife?"

At the head office of the Muslim Council of Britain in London, which sent a delegation to Iraq to call for Mr Bigley’s release, there was also indignation at the remarks.

Inayat Bunglawala, a spokesman, said: "I can imagine people getting upset about that kind of humour.

"This is the time when everyone needs to be showing solidarity with Ken Bigley’s family, to work for his release. The jokes can wait. When it comes to Ken Bigley we need to get the man free."

Connolly’s management declined to comment on the incident. The joke about Mr Bigley is not the first time that Billy Connolly has sailed close to the wind with his choice of sensitive subjects.

In 2001, the Scots comedian went into territory few would have thought accessible less than a month after the events of 11 September. During an appearance on Parkinson he said: "Imagine being the first Afghan to be killed, hit on the head by a food parcel. What are we going to do next - drop a huge Liquorice Allsort over the whole of Afghanistan?"

At the time the audience laughed at his attempt to make light of the scenario. This time the joke appears to have rebounded on the Big Yin.

kaimera

he only said what some people are thinking [perhaps a lot of people even]

hehehe..I laughed when I heard it

Spacedog

I'm sure Ken would have thought it'd be funny, I figure he could do with a bit of an auld cheerin' up eh? Good joke, the best part was when sky news were trying to get a comment from Billy in the airport, "Sky News! Your not even the real news!" Billy's one funny so'n'so

fragile

"Imagine being the first Afghan to be killed, hit on the head by a food parcel. What are we going to do next - drop a huge Liquorice Allsort over the whole of Afghanistan?"

lol

ARGINITE

Chop Connolly head off to, he's not very funny anyways!

Civilian_Target

I think that's actually quite funny. I don't think he meant it as offensive to the bigleys, I think he was aiming for the vast media circus that surrounds the whole thing, which is a bit mad really...

Fysh

Civilian_Target wrote:

I think that's actually quite funny. I don't think he meant it as offensive to the bigleys, I think he was aiming for the vast media circus that surrounds the whole thing, which is a bit mad really...

I agree 100%. I'm sick of the way tabloids show us in full detail exactly how humiliated the guy is, and beat us over the head with "NOW YOU WILL FEEL SORRY FOR HIM" rhetoric. Or what's even worse, the Irish papers that come out with "Don't kill Ken, he's Irish" - because apparently, killing him when he was English would be different, and not quite as evil.

We're going to end up with another Princess Diana situation here. Sure, if I was related to him I'd probably find it upsetting. But we're talking about a guy who accepted the risks involved in working there for extra cash, and a tabloid media circus set up to boost sales. Given Billy's general sense of humour, I imagine that's what he was mocking, since he didn't explicitly say "Kill the b*llox, I knew him and he was a w*nker".

At the end of the day, I refuse to feel guilty about avoiding the emotional manipulation that's being passed of as journalism surrounding Ken Bigley. I don't agree with Blair and his government's actions, nor with the kidnappers who think that their brand of violent fundamentalism is the right way to achieve what they want. But that doesn't mean I'm going to let some idiot tabloid editor or someone deeply emotionally involved dictate what I should think.

Canis Lupus

i also think its funny cept u always get folks who think that sort of humour is horrifying and then u DEFINITELY get a channel like sky news picking up on it and telling about everyones "outrage".

Anyway sky news should be taken off the air, it hypes every piece of news it can get its grubby hands on and usually mentions the word terrorism or Iraq at least 10 times every 15 minutes..
"a man was today arrested boarding a plane with a plastic butter knife which he had in his bag along with his bread and butter. While unconfirmed (we are making this up) police beleive the man intended to take the knife, bread and butter and create a trouser zip bomb with which he intended to blow his trousers off and cause a massive public indecency." Followed by interviews of ppl from obscure organisations and so on.....

sprinkles

How many people made joke about princess di when she died.

Come on! it was only a joke. Its not as if Billy is out there in Iraq with a cleaver in his hand.

Of course it was distastleful but the best jokes always are, or maybe we should give up our black sense of humour and settle for "knock knock" jokes!

Then we'd just end up like the americans with their love of "canned" humour.

sprinkles

Canis Lupus wrote:

"a man was today arrested boarding a plane with a plastic butter knife which he had in his bag along with his bread and butter. While unconfirmed (we are making this up) police beleive the man intended to take the knife, bread and butter and create a trouser zip bomb with which he intended to blow his trousers off and cause a massive public indecency." Followed by interviews of ppl from obscure organisations and so on.....

lol

I agree completely. Can't stand that channel.

Big Ears

sprinkles wrote:

lol

I agree completely. Can't stand that channel.

Its like Fox News without being funny , and quite as biased/balanced( )

N_Raid

I thought it was pretty funny. But then again I'm a Billy Conolly fan with no sympathy for Bigley anyway so I suppose I would.

And if you're going to a Billy Connolly show you should know there's gonna be some stuff that people might find offensive. What did they expect, a whole night of 'Take my wife - Please' Jokes? He tries to be on the edge and current and you see something about Bigley on the news practically every night so it was an obvious choice.

The images of hostages being beheaded or pleading for their lives have provided some of the most harrowing of the entire conflict in Iraq.

Yeah maybe in WESTERN media. But that's another topic and thread, it just pissed me off so I thought I'd mention it.

A Dub in Glasgo

Maybe an insensitive time for the joke but I thought it was funny and his retort to Sky News is a classic. Excellent comedian

Canis Lupus

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Maybe an insensitive time for the joke but I thought it was funny and his retort to Sky News is a classic. Excellent comedian

agreed

Doper Than U

I'm a Billy fan, think he's hilarious, but I did think that "joke" was in poor taste, and completely unnecessary. Meh.. but thats just me, maybe I just don't find it funny to joke about killing an innocent guy who's living in terror and on the brink of a pretty horrific death. And BEFORE people bring up the whole "Well, the iraqi's have suffered much worse at the hands of Bush" I know that! I don't think its funny to make a joke about that either, I don't see how people can object to innocent iraqis being killed, and not object to an innocent englishman being killed. And again, before anyone spouts the usual "but he knew the risks, he shouldn't have been there anyway"; point is, he's been there for years before the war, as was a relation of mine until she managed to get home just before the war started, she was a nurse, she didn't want to leave, as she knew she would be needed, but people insisted she go. Point is, one innocent life is no less or more valuable than another, whatever their nationality. Ken Bigley was not there as part of the war effort, just a guy trying to make some good money (which apparantly is worse in some of your eyes.. if you hate capitalism that much, go live in Russia or China)

thats my rant over.. sorry if I "offended" anyone, but if you didn't take offence over Billy's joke, surely you won't take offence at what I just said.

Canis Lupus

good point but ppl rarely do "care". Its not until it happens to them that ppl will usually tend to sit up and pay attention.

altho a poignant point is life is short :P ya may as well try to get a laugh out of whatever can before the end

wonder if kenneth will be whistling "the bright side of life" at the end....

*looks up* now that was tasteless

ShiverinEskimo

Billy Connolly is a legend. Maybe he went too far, but in some cases all his jokes will offend some portion of the public.
Fat ugly people for example.

I think he is the funniest man alive and i can think of no one better to have as a mate down the pub...legend.

GreeBo

Fysh wrote:

Or what's even worse, the Irish papers that come out with "Don't kill Ken, he's Irish" - because apparently, killing him when he was English would be different, and not quite as evil.

You dont think perhaps, possibly, the reason they are saying he is Irish is that there isnt the same level of resentment towards Ireland as there would be towards Britain/Tony Blair in Iraq?


:rolleyes:

TwoShedsJackson

I laughed. Comedy = tragedy + time etc. etc.

fragile

This guy went to Iraq knowing the risk he was taking, especially as a British citizen, because he wanted to make a few extra quid. **** happens, he got caught by a terrorist organisation, if he gets killed tomorrow I won't be losing any sleep over it.......hundreds of thousands of innocent people who in no way are involved or choose to get involved in these kind of risks get killed each year, it is these people I feel sorry for. The media coverage of this has gotten to the point where it is rediculious and annoying and Billy Connolly was illustrating this, fair play to him I say.

Fysh

GreeBo wrote:

You dont think perhaps, possibly, the reason they are saying he is Irish is that there isnt the same level of resentment towards Ireland as there would be towards Britain/Tony Blair in Iraq?


:rolleyes:

I take it you've completely ignored the way that Bertie supported the US/UK coalition for a good amount of the war and is still allowing the US military to use Shannon airport - effectively eliminating our supposed neutrality. And that we're talking about violent extremists who, in case it has escaped you, probably see an English-speaking man with a British passport and don't really give a damn beyond that. Because, if you suffer from this specific and localised form of blindness, then YES MY GOD YOU'RE RIGHT! Oh, wait...

Nick_oliveri

Fysh wrote:

I take it you've completely ignored the way that Bertie supported the US/UK coalition for a good amount of the war and is still allowing the US military to use Shannon airport - effectively eliminating our supposed neutrality.

I dont think the extremists know that.

Fysh wrote:

And that we're talking about violent extremists who, in case it has escaped you, probably see an English-speaking man with a British passport and don't really give a damn beyond that. Because, if you suffer from this specific and localised form of blindness, then YES MY GOD YOU'RE RIGHT! Oh, wait...

Why tf do all posts end up going this way? With the sarcasm/arguments? UNNESESSARILY.

Would we have cared about Bigley if they hadn't have reported it 24/7?
No..... not really. Billy was right, the assholes dont show the real news its all prescribed. Can of depression to wash it down. These are the cnuts that tell us its not safe to walk outside because of terrorism. Id be more worried about the local skanger jawing at me for a ciggarette. Or why we get charged so much for bull**** services and incompetence.

In thruth my heart goes out to the poor man. It also goes out more to Iraqi civilians rather than American soldiers. The media focus should be global rather than centralized on one country. But remember, these ignorant pricks make money off death and destruction, they made money off that poor bastard that was torched and dragged through the streets by chain and 4x4. I think thats insanly wrong.

Fysh

Nick_oliveri wrote:

I dont think the extremist towelheads know that.

So they'll know the difference between him being British and him being Irish *without* actually paying any attention to what Ireland's position was during the war?

Why tf do all posts end up going this way? With the sarcasm/arguments? UNNESESSARILY.

I didn't start the sarcasm, I just responded in kind to a post with an incorrect statement and a smart-assed tone.

Would we have cared about Bigley if they hadn't have reported it 24/7? No..... not really. Billy was right, the assholes dont show the real news its all prescribed. Can of depression to wash it down. These are the cnuts that tell us its not safe to walk outside because of terrorism. Id be more worried about the local skanger jawing at me for a ciggarette. Or why we get charged so much for bull**** services and incompetence. In thruth my heart goes out to the poor man. It also goes out more to Iraqi civilians rather than American soldiers. The media focus should be global rather than centralized on one country. But remember, these ignorant pricks make money off death and destruction, they made money off that poor bastard that was torched and dragged through the streets by chain and 4x4. I think thats insanly wrong.

I agree completely.

ven0m

Maybe Big Yin's joke was a step too far - but to be honest, the media coverage borders on 'sensationalism' & to be honest, the longer it drags out the more "free publicity" Bigley's hostage takers are getting.... either get on with it, or set him free....... if you choose to work in a 'war zone' you must accept the risk of capture, especially when you're the same nationality as one of the occupying forces.....

Billy Connolly's comedy is often a satire on social commentary & if people have a problem with that, f**k off - go live in your 'grey' dull miserable excuse for a humourless world & don't be bugging the rest of us!!!!

People should just be thankful we live in a democracy where we have free speech & not only make jokes like this & debate them after - if it were North Korea or some other hellhole on earth, well - we'd truly be victims of our own jokes & debates now wouldn't we???


::: ven0mous :::

Pigman II

Fair play to Connolly. I'm not a fan of the guys comedy in general anyway but I'd back his right to be able to say what he said without being made into a target for press vilification just because it suits their adgenda.

Doper Than U

Don't suppose it matters now.. they killed him yesterday (according to reports), Billy got his wish. R.I.P Ken Bigley, your last few days must have been hell on earth... hilarious :rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

Don't be so dramatic. Connolly is a comedian and at one of his shows he says what a lot of people are saying. A bit insensitive... yes but a lot less insensitive than Bush & Blair who killed thousands of innocent people when they decided that they wanted some action (not personal action as they would never dream of actually going there or sending their own kids there themselves).

Doper Than U

Never tried to say that Blair and Bush were somehow right, and that only Billy was wrong. Don't make that assumption.. Bush can rot in hell for all I care, he killed thousands of innocents, is it funny to joke about that? Apparantly not... still don't understand why people are justifying Billy's joke by using the "well Blair and Bush are worse" DUH! We all know that! No one's saying they're not. Still doesn't take away from Billy's insensitive joke. Why even compare them at all? They're not even anywhere near the same scale... all Billy did was make a "joke".. Blair and Bush .. well, we know what they did. The two hardly compare.. doesn't make the "joke" funny to me though... Either way.. the guy is still dead. No doubt we'll all see how horrible it was when his beheading video makes it onto tv...

A Dub in Glasgo

You were being overly dramatic on a point is hardly registers in the scheme of things. It is sensationalist nonsense to try and persecute or blame Connolly for something he said during a stand up comedy routine. Making out as if Connolly wished for Bigley to be kidnapped and beheaded is nonsense.

Doper Than U

Perhaps it was overly dramatic... sorry if I offended anyone.. didn't think anyone would care that much since they all found Billy's joke to be within the realms of "acceptable"; as for "persecuting" Billy.. now who's being dramatic. If Billy can't take the poison, he shouldn't provoke the snake.

A Dub in Glasgo

Sorry, I was referring to the media and newspapers. Total over the top response from them. Their response to this tiny incident is dramatic.

Doper Than U

Fair enough, there are far more important things to be focussing on, I agree. Can't say I'm surprised at the media attention for it though, timing was crucial for the "joke" to work, but also for many people to be upset and offended by it. As I said "if you can't take the poison, don't provoke the snake"... surely B.C. would have known a comment like this would provoke media interest? As such, he now has to deal with the "persecution". His tough luck.

(I still think the guy is hilarious, just hated this joke)

Hagar

Wether the joke was funny or not this isn't....

Sky News wrote:

The Foreign Office is checking claims that British hostage Ken Bigley has been murdered in Iraq.

The 62-year-old from Liverpool was reportedly killed despite pleas to the terrorists holding him to show mercy.


Militants in the Iraqi city of Fallujah say they believe Mr Bigley was killed on Thursday in the town of Latifiyah, 22 miles south-west of Baghdad.

The captive's family had begged Tony Blair to step in and attempt to secure his release.

Engineer Mr Bigley was abducted in Baghdad along with fellow construction workers Jack Hensley and Eugene Armstrong three weeks ago.

A news presenter in Abu Dhabi said on television: "We have learned from informed sources in the Iraqi capital that the kidnappers of Kenneth Bigley have killed him."

Mr Bigley's brother, Paul, said: "I have heard these reports and I am looking into them right now."

British embassy staff in Thailand said they were in "close contact" with his wife, Sombat.

The Tawhid and Jihad terrorist group beheaded the two Americans within a week and their remains were found in the Iraqi capital.

Abu Musab al Zarqawi, who ranks as one of Washington's most wanted men, is believed to have killed at least one of the Americans.

The men's kidnappers had initially called for the release of all women prisoners held in US-run prisons, but their demands later became more muddled.

The horrific alert comes just 24 hours after Iraq's interim prime minister, Ayad Allawi, said there were promising behind-the-scenes to secure Mr Bigley's release.

If the reports prove true, Mr Bigley would be the first British captive killed since Coalition forces invaded Iraq in March 2003.

Trade Secretary Patricia Hewitt said the Foreign Secretary Jack Straw and his colleagues at the Foreign Office were doing all they could.

She said: "Our top priority is to find out if the reports are true. We have to do everything possible and hope that they are not confirmed."

Ms Hewitt reiterated that the Government could not negotiate with terrorists.

the_syco

Fysh wrote:

I take it you've completely ignored the way that Bertie supported the US/UK coalition for a good amount of the war and is still allowing the US military to use Shannon airport - effectively eliminating our supposed neutrality.

Oh f**king gawd! You people piss me off. Sorry for going off topic, but the Irish goverment lets ANYBODY through. They let the soviet army through during the cold war. And they brought guns. They have let alot of the left-wing goverment troops through. And one right-wing goverment army goes through, and you call it a damn outrage???

Also, as for the Billy joke, fair balls to him. So the dude goes over, and gets rich quick, as any westerner over there gets paid lots of money for doing anything over there. When the people holding him were told that there was only 2 women in the Irai jails (and none in the jails they mentioned), they gave the guy to someone who'd demand money for him.
Now, these guys NEVER let ANYONE go alive. Everyone knows this, but refuses to believe this, so if anyone says something, its bad.

Final thought for the moment; even though he wasn't born here, Bertie bends backwards to get Bigley an Irish Passport. Shows you; it doesn't matter where your from, how many generations ago your family moved from Ireland (looks @ the Americans), EVERYONE wnats to be Irish! :cool:

fragile

Going off topic a bit, but if there is such a huge demand for this kind of sensationalist journalism reporting on torture and captivity (as there obviously is) then the journalists should be in Guantanamo bay not Iraq

Cindy Love

just thought id post this message its up on the hotmail message board that ken has been killed.(fingers crossed its a hoax)

simu

fragile wrote:

Going off topic a bit, but if there is such a huge demand for this kind of sensationalist journalism reporting on torture and captivity (as there obviously is) then the journalists should be in Guantanamo bay not Iraq

There's a bigger demand for it when the victims are white Europeans/Americans.

Sad but true.

Fysh

the_syco wrote:

Oh f**king gawd! You people piss me off. Sorry for going off topic, but the Irish goverment lets ANYBODY through. They let the soviet army through during the cold war. And they brought guns. They have let alot of the left-wing goverment troops through. And one right-wing goverment army goes through, and you call it a damn outrage???

No, I call it an outrage to let any army through and then claim that you had no involvement in the damn conflict. Especially when Bertie didn't claim to be opposed to the war in Iraq until after the reconstruction contracts had all been awarded and Ireland didn't get any of them. Letting another country's military use your facilities constitutes a tacit agreement with what they are doing - this is my point. Perhaps others have argued a similar case in a different way, but that's hardly my fault.

ven0m

The Irish government decides on our 'neutrality' & weighs it against it's own needs/desires as often as it needs & always demonstrates that we do not indeed live in a democracy, but a semi-facist state.....

What I ALSO find hilarious, is recently we all voted about the rights of 'who is considered irish' & the government tog over a passport - understandably, it was to save a man's life - fair enough - his own government left him to the dogs, but why must we dance along the fence - either we're neutral or not....& we stick by our guns on things or we change them & make it official....

As a side point - Bigley's hostage takers did say that "they had no quarrel with the Irish people & knew of our struggle to rid our lands of the rape, murder & imperialism of the British" - dunno how to take this statement TBH....

It's all a very f**ked up situation & to be honest, the media played a huge part in making it more messed up. As long as people remember that the media are NOT there to report the truth & their SOLE purpose is to shift units[i.e. papers, magazines etc etc], airtime & the rest - you'll understand the media are nothing more than glorified whores hawking their a$$es to the highest bidder in a disguised bid to pass off 'their truths' as fact & as an insidious form of entertainment, reminiscent of Romans feeding christians to Lions for entertainment of the masses....


::: ven0mous :::

segadreamcast

Kaimera wrote:

he only said what some people are thinking [perhaps a lot of people even]

hehehe..I laughed when I heard it

I'd understand if it was even funny - but Connolly was just going on shock value for this one. His outrageous, unbelievable, unreal stories are okay - sure, I'll listen to them with a pinch of salt. But this? Well, frankly, I find it disgusting.

Nevertheless, I also find the 'media circus' which engulfs the situation quite sickening too - why couldn't this have been left to those who would have an impact on the scenario.

either we're neutral or not....& we stick by our guns on things or we change them & make it official....

It's widely accepted that Ireland was hardly ever neutral. Talk to a history student about our stance on prisoners (German Vs. UK) in WW2 and see what they tell you...

Doper Than U

Well, why don't you just call me a Commie Pinko **** and get it over with? You're forgetting that the democracy your capitalism is based on gives me the right to dissent.

Lmao!! Now THATS funny. Wow, you gave me neg rep coz we disagreed? Why not behead me while you're at it. As for it being "my" capitalism, I was merely saying that making money is not a good enough reason to behead someone, and it seems this is ALL Ken Bigley is accused of according to those who say "It's his own fault". Thats it! Making money!! Even Iraqis want to make money! They don't deserve to be beheaded for that, and if you think they do, then YES I suggest you move to a regime that better suits your tastes. As for being a "Commie Pinko ****" :rolleyes: that's a rude and horrible thing to say, and you would never hear it from me, those are your words, don't assume you know what I would say.

It's just an opinion Fysh, just an opinion.. and people said I was being dramatic... :rolleyes:

Zombienosh

STATEMENT

STATEMENT REGARDING REPORTS OF REMARKS FALSELY ATTRIBUTED TO BILLY CONNOLLY ABOUT KEN BIGLEY

Billy Connolly is angry and disgusted by reports that he joked about Ken Bigley being harmed.

Billy's stage comments were restricted to pointing out the hypocrisy of some people including sections of the media faking concern about Mr Bigleys predicament while enjoying the drama of the tragedy and exploiting it for their own ends.

Billy is saddened by any distress these false reports have caused Mr Bigley's family and he hopes that Mr Bigley returns home safely.


Statement Taken From www.billyconnolly.com

kaimera

I think billy hoping he returns safe is a bit late dont ya think?

GreeBo

Fysh wrote:

I take it you've completely ignored the way that Bertie supported the US/UK coalition for a good amount of the war and is still allowing the US military to use Shannon airport - effectively eliminating our supposed neutrality. And that we're talking about violent extremists who, in case it has escaped you, probably see an English-speaking man with a British passport and don't really give a damn beyond that. Because, if you suffer from this specific and localised form of blindness, then YES MY GOD YOU'RE RIGHT! Oh, wait...

Whether or not Ireland are neutral or not makes no difference to the attempt.
The fact that the attempt might not succeed does not negate the effort.
You seem to miss the fact that the Irish Government were making an attempt to save the guys life.

Your initial post stated "because apparently, killing him when he was English would be different, and not quite as evil.", I merely pointed out why he was granted the passport.

Oh and maybe its just me, but I havent seen too may Irish flags being burnt out there.

Try not to be a dickhead *all* the time dude.

GreeBo

Fysh wrote:

Letting another country's military use your facilities constitutes a tacit agreement with what they are doing - this is my point.

Huh????
How exactly did you come to this understanding?
Looking out for your own interests and not pissing off a superpower (that can do more for you than you can do for it) is not agreeing with their policies IMO.

If we knew that giving a passport would save his life but decided not to as "we are neutral" would that be a tacit agreement with the captors?

billy the squid

Giving the passport was better than turning to paul bigley and saying "sory mate **** all to do with us we are neutral"

It was unsuccessful, but it was worth the try and the minister for foreign affairs has to be at least commended for that.