damn travellers

Now I'm not a racist person but hearing things like this really makes my blood boil. http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1264506&issue_id=11522

It seems since they havent gotten their way they have resulted to violent actions. How come I'm not surprised? We've all had run ins with travellers in the past and I'm sick of hearing them complain about lack of facilities for them etc..Hint buy a freakin house!
I don't think they should even have a say in any city councils plans considering the leeches dont even pay taxes. They are swimming in money,you only have to look at their cars and jeeps to see that!

KdjaCL

Article req registering.

kdjac

whoops!
here ye go:

Trouble flares at Traveller protest

GARDAI in riot gear were called in last night as the Travellers protest in north Dublin turned nasty.

A disused lodge was torched and passing cars were attacked with stones.

Traveller protests were mounted when Dublin City Council said it had to erect a wall across Dunsink Lane because of the dangers caused by illegal dumping.

During the day, roads were closed and long tailbacks built up on the city's main arteries as the protests kicked in.

Then, as darkness fell trouble brewed. Passing cars were attacked by mobs of men and youths throwing stones. Some garda vehicles had to pull back. There was an unconfirmed report that a woman had been injured.

Prof JA Meurs, director of the Dunsink Observatory, confirmed that a gate lodge at the entrance to the observatory had been damaged by fire. He said the building had been unoccupied since last spring but the observatory itself had not been damaged.

It is understood a car owned by a security man was also set on fire.

Cars travelling along Cappagh Road and Ratoath Road were targeted by gangs throwing stones. A number were damaged.

Nala

I've nothing against travellers but it always pisses me off when they ask for money, yet they've better runners than I do!

Jim

There was a thread about it on the Dublin City forum.
With discussions like this people tend to go on long rants about killing spree's etc.

StRiKeR

I dunno much about these matters you guys are talking about but I have heard nothing good about them, everytime I see them or hear people talking about them, it was always nasty!

let say my car was parked outside my friends pub, 2 travellers walked by, dont know who they are, they certainly dont know me, but why did they have to damage my car??

they were caught on camera, like last year it was, but yet nothing had been done about it!

woosaysdan

you do someting to them its a lawsuit, they do something to you it well we cant do much about that im afraid

StRiKeR

if you do something to them, there be more than a lawsuit!

more like a nice big hospital bill for you

ArphaRima

Now I'm not a racist person but hearing things like this really makes my blood boil

Only group of people I am freely and openly racist about. Cant help it. In my opinion it is common sense. If every 95% of the travellers I have ever met has tried to attack, intimidate, or steal either me or somebody close by, how can I not form this opinion?

We've all had run ins with travellers in the past

Even read the newspaper. Talk to neighbours. Talk to friends. I can tolerate their lifestyle, just not accept it.

therecklessone

Deleted User wrote:

Now I'm not a racist person but...

That old gem? :rolleyes:

Flukey

In fairness the road has been blocked up and is inconveniencing them, as well as others. It is being done allegedly because of the dumping. The travellers have accepted that they are responsible for some of it, but there are a lot more people involved in it than they are. Instead of blocking the road the council should clean it up and then do something to help avoid the problem in the future. There could be surveillance cameras put up, though they are likely to be broken. A better solution would be to do up the road. Widen it and make it into a proper road instead of leaving it like an old back lane, which is a magnet for dumping.

therecklessone

therecklessone wrote:

That old gem? :rolleyes:

works a treat everytime! lol

But seriously like fluffer said they dont exactly do themselves any favours do they?
And we're powerless! If a TD stands up and says anything he'll have the EU come down on him like a ton of bricks for being discriminatory!!
A line has to be drawn somewhere. These people have every right to live their lifestyle but until they pay taxes and start treating others with respect they can put up and shut up

KdjaCL

Flukey wrote:

In fairness the road has been blocked up and is inconveniencing them, as well as others. It is being done allegedly because of the dumping. The travellers have accepted that they are responsible for some of it, but there are a lot more people involved in it than they are. Instead of blocking the road the council should clean it up and then do something to help avoid the problem in the future. There could be surveillance cameras put up, though they are likely to be broken. A better solution would be to do up the road. Widen it and make it into a proper road instead of leaving it like an old back lane, which is a magnet for dumping.

So we the tax payer should pay for their mess? If they paid tax and didnt leave the places they stayed in bits i wouldnt mind them but jebus they wreck everywhere leaving the council to clean it up.

Dont mind them just the mess they leave is unreal.

kdjac

Dave

fluffer wrote:

or steal either me or somebody close by.

Jesus, kidnapping strangers aswell

nothing

As with all generalisations about people, they are based on the actions of a few trouble makers, if any of ye watched the news last night you would have seen that the majority of them had organised a peaceful protest and where not involved in the violence last night.

I live around the corner from both settled travellers, who had houses specially built for them, and a halting site. And to be honest they don't cause even half as much trouble as it's claimed.

FX Meister

If this was done to any other settled comunity their would be serious uproar. Fair enough the travellars are responsible for an amount of the dumping, But then I cannot remember driving past any halting site and not seeing their crap dumped along the side of the road. They have been responsible for a lot of the dumping along dunsink lane but witnesses are too scared to come forward. If they are complaing about lack of access to Finglas and are having to drive aroumd by blanch to get their, why not go to blanch instead.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Tusky

Travellers are the only group of people Im prejudice against.Purely because I have never had a good run in with one, Only bad..and Ive had quite a few. I know the road in question and travel by it twice a day. The most dangerous thing about that road is not the random things by the roadside but the travellers driving up and down it like madmen. They pull out onto the road without looking and at high speeds .I have almost been in a crash a half dozen times. I have seen kids as young as 11 or 12 driving cars up and down the road between sites and have been given the finger for no reason many times too.

What really anoys me though is the fact that they think the best way to protest is by attacking innocent people who have nothing to do with the road block, why throw stones at passing cars ???!!? thats just idiotic. I dont think the traveller life style should be accepted in a major city , Maybe down in the country where there is plenty of space to move around but it just doesnt work in a city like Dublin.

[edit] just like to add - of course there are many many travellers that are not like this - In my experience though the majority are.

StRiKeR

have to agree there are travellers who dont cost trouble at all or not as much, I've met a few before, which they have jobs, and they moved away from the rest, living in different area rather than with their family and dress like everyone else do, clean and tidy, but at the same time, the amount of them that cost troubles for no reason is still alot higher!

Blub2k4

Just a question, how many of you know a traveller to say hello to and by first name?
I know quite a few, in fact they were originally from the Dunsink site before they were thrown out of there for not paying their rent or something and ended up sleeping on Baggot St bridge for two years. Two of them are since dead of liver cirrhosis, two of them now live settled in Mountjoy Square and the rest are scattered between the streets and jail. In all honesty it was scary at first going up to them and talking to them but once I got over the initial fear they are nice people, even blitzed from Roches and vodka like they tend to be.
I work in Blanch and pass Dunsink twice a day too and have never seen what Tusky describes, the spokesman in fairness did say that there were actions in dunsink that have no place in a peaceful demo but then the good guy is not going to get his voice heard in all that white noise is he now?
Merc your cowardice is astounding, at least that other thing fluffer wears his swastika on his sleeve, you somehow wander off into inane baby talk, and yes you are a small person if that is what you were getting at.

JW123

StRiKeR wrote:

let say my car was parked outside my friends pub, 2 travellers walked by, dont know who they are, they certainly dont know me, but why did they have to damage my car??
QUOTE]

Because that's what they do, people have to bend over backwards to suit them and they just do as they please. If any stands up to them , some liberal starts ranting about racism and discrimination :mad: :mad:

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Canis Lupus

Dave wrote:

Jesus, kidnapping strangers aswell

that was gonna be my joke

anyway onto this outpouring of emotion.

I've met nice knac... travellers... quiet, minded their own business and even shock horror once they moved on dropped in money to the town heads to pay to remove the rubbish.

But as just about everyone else will say they unfortunately tend to be the exception. When travellers are the issue its the nice ones who tend to be in the minority and not just a few troublemakers giving the lot a bad rep.

The majority of travellers I have met just about fit the general stereotype.

Tusky

Blub2k4 wrote:

Just a question, how many of you know a traveller to say hello to and by first name?
I know quite a few, in fact they were originally from the Dunsink site before they were thrown out of there for not paying their rent or something and ended up sleeping on Baggot St bridge for two years. Two of them are since dead of liver cirrhosis, two of them now live settled in Mountjoy Square and the rest are scattered between the streets and jail. In all honesty it was scary at first going up to them and talking to them but once I got over the initial fear they are nice people, even blitzed from Roches and vodka like they tend to be.
I work in Blanch and pass Dunsink twice a day too and have never seen what Tusky describes, the spokesman in fairness did say that there were actions in dunsink that have no place in a peaceful demo but then the good guy is not going to get his voice heard in all that white noise is he now?
Merc your cowardice is astounding, at least that other thing fluffer wears his swastika on his sleeve, you somehow wander off into inane baby talk, and yes you are a small person if that is what you were getting at.

you pass by twice and a day and you have never seen them driving dangerously ? I find that very hard to believe. I do however commend you on making the effort to egt to know some of them properly.

fiacha

i was in the area last night (i had to walk home because the traffic was so bad) and it looked like there were groups of kids from finglas and cabra involved in the troublemaking. i recognised some of the faces from my area there aswell.
so not all the trouble was being caused by the travellers.

ArphaRima

at least that other thing fluffer wears his swastika on his sleeve,

At that I take offence.
I think you will find the majority of the population of this country have issues with travellers.

I for one have had the misfortune of having the entire brigade of horse people on stephens green chasing me and my friends around town, with weapons in hand (knives/hurleys/bricks/batteries) because we stepped in to help an aborigine who stood up for his girlfriend after a traveller punched her in the face to annoy him.
One amongst many experiences. If you want me to elaborate ask. But I think you'll find most people have similar stories.

fiacha

fluffer wrote:

At that I take offence.
I think you will find the majority of the population of this country have issues with travellers.

I for one have had the misfortune of having the entire brigade of horse people on stephens green chasing me and my friends around town, with weapons in hand (knives/hurleys/bricks/batteries) because we stepped in to help an aborigine who stood up for his girlfriend after a traveller punched her in the face to annoy him.
One amongst many experiences. If you want me to elaborate ask. But I think you'll find most people have similar stories.

scum are scum, doesn't matter if they are travellers or from wealthy families in foxrock. you cannot tar them all with the same brush

fluffer

fluffer wrote:

Only group of people I am freely and openly racist about. Cant help it. In my opinion it is common sense. If every 95% of the travellers I have ever met has tried to attack, intimidate, or steal either me or somebody close by, how can I not form this opinion?

Ditto. Added for my own experience, is growing up by "settled" travelelrs, and going to the same national school as them. I just don't like or trust them. A generalisation but for the most part true.

ArphaRima

scum are scum, doesn't matter if they are travellers or from wealthy families in foxrock. you cannot tar them all with the same brush

True. But what preconceived conception will I have of them when I first meet them, and whom would I rather meet?

stevenmu

Tusky wrote:

you pass by twice and a day and you have never seen them driving dangerously ? I find that very hard to believe. I do however commend you on making the effort to egt to know some of them properly.

I can back Tusky up on this, I used to go up and down their when the river road was closed off but ended up coming a completely different way instead just to avoid it. The dumping wasn't just bags of rubbish it was big solid stuff, fridges, blocks, timber and there was always bags of different stuff spilt around making the road slippery. Several times I was driving down and one whole side of the road would be blocked with crap, there'd be no oncoming traffic so I'd just pull over to pass it and some little b***ard barely able to see over the wheel would appear out of nowhere doing 60+.

On the subject of generalisations, some of them exist because they're true. The reason travellers have the reputation they do is because they generally live up to it. Not all do but from what I've seen they're the minority.

Hobbes

KdjaC wrote:

Article req registering.

kdjac

www.bugmenot.com

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Hobbes

Blub2k4 wrote:

Just a question, how many of you know a traveller to say hello to and by first name?

I don't know any offhand. The mother used to work with them though so I have bumped into a few who knew the mother.

While there are some muppets, the majority are actually OK.

The reason they have the reputation is because it is easier to label them.

Stark

I don't think it's just travellers these days. The general population is turning into scum.

I guess travellers just don't tend to grow out of it, as they don't have to worry about criminal records and employment prospects and the like. But god knows if the settled population had their checks removed, the majority of them would be just as bad.

It's sad, but there are only the select few special people who are nice to people for the sake of being nice, as opposed to doing it to receive positive society feedback. Since travellers exist outside of our society, there's no pressure on them to be civil towards us

monkeyfudge

Personally I've never had a problem with the traveller community.

And I've had to train large number of them in the IT Centre that I run. Lots of expensive equipment around... nothing has ever been stolen or broken. They also tend to take to the IT skills alot quicker than the other marginalised groups that I train.

ArphaRima

The reason they have the reputation is because it is easier to label them

Im sorry I dont follow.
Easier to label than whom?
Stereotypes exist everywhere.

The reason as a group they have a bad rep is because of their ACTIONS. A lot of people have some very bad experiences or have heard of others with bad experiences. That is why as a group they have a terrible name.

Flukey

A lot of the things that Travellers are accused of are being done by others too. A lot of the dumping in Dunsink is done by the settled community. So KdjaC at lot of "our" taxes are going to clear up "our" mess. There may be some dangerous driving in the area by the Travellers, but the vast amount of joyriders in Dublin, who cause far more problems, are not Travellers.

Some of us may have had problems with Travellers, but we have all had problems coming from other sections of the community. None of the tribunals of the last few years are dealing with Travellers. A lot of Travellers may not pay tax, but the biggest tax-dodgers in the country are all "respectable" people. The amount of tax lost by Travellers not paying tax or tax spent dealing with problems caused by them, is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of tax lost by tax dodgers, like our business people and politicians. Most conmen are not Travellers. Most bank robbers are not Travellers. The banks that are robbing their customers for years, are not run by Travellers. Take any crime or anti-social problem and most of them are not caused by Travellers.

Sure we hear a lot of bad things in the media about Travellers, but then as is always the case, the good things don't make the news. If there were 10 muggings in town tonight, one by a Traveller, that is the one we are most likely to hear about. If in some of the other muggings a Traveller came along and intervened and rescued the victim, you can be sure that we would not hear about that. We are more likely to see a headline like "Man mugged by Traveller" than "Traveller rescues man in attempted mugging."

Travellers are not perfect, but let's not pretend that we are. If any of you are mugged tonight, have your car wrecked or stolen, have your house broken into, read about a tax-dodger, have a girlfriend raped, have your dog mutilated, murdered or whatever, it is far more likely to be done by someone coming from the settled community than a Traveller. As with the settled community or with Romanians, Nigerians, refugees, asylum seekers, muslims and any other group that get a bad press, the majority are ordinary, decent, law-abiding citizens.

Blub2k4

fluffer wrote:

At that I take offence.
I think you will find the majority of the population of this country have issues with travellers.

You are entitled to, even expected to, but you write this and have a problem with me throwing it back to you formulated differently? VVVV

fluffer wrote:

Only group of people I am freely and openly racist about. Cant help it. In my opinion it is common sense.

I'd be careful voicing the opinion of the majority on such an emotive issue, I think you'll find there are some people who dont have these problems with people who are different like you seem to.
With regard to your experience with travellers I suspect that they sense your disdain and react accordingly, but then what do you care you are openly racist in your attitude toward them, like things are gonna improve there.

Blub2k4

Tusky may be right as may stevenmu, I said I had not seen it, and yes I do travel that road daily.

Flukey

Fluffer, racism is never common sense!

ArphaRima

I'd be careful voicing the opinion of the majority on such an emotive issue

Somehow I feel you havent had much luck convincing any of your relatives or friends otherwise. Have a conversation at the pub with people you know, see how lonely you will be on your side of the line.

A lot of the things that Travellers are accused of are being done by others too

Its called crime. Yes it seems it is well documented that travellers are not in fact the only group worldwide that commit crimes. What we are disputing is their proportional representation in the commmitting of said crimes.

like our business people and politicians

Our businesspeople and politicians havent threatened me with knives. And one word applies to them (eventually) that doesnt seem to apply or at least bother the travellers: accountability.

the_syco

Firstly, I'd like to say that once upon a time there was a group of travelers called the "Castletown Travellers", who stayed in one spot every year, for a couple of months, working in the area. No more tho.

=====
There are two types of itinerants;

• Travellers; nice people, easy to talk with, and rent skips to get rid of their rubbish.
• Knackers; horrible people. Prone to fights, wreaking stuff, and leaving behind large amounts of junk.

=====

In the last number of years, KCC has had to clear up numerous times at the Royal Canal car park @ Louise Bridge, Leixlip, and more recently, a newly built slip road to HP, for the motorway, after knack3rs made left behind mass amounts of junk. In Celbridge, the knack3rs took over a schools football pitch, soiling on it, and leaving a large amount of junk on it, when they left.

Whilst working as a lounge boy in a local pub, a group came in, which the pub owner knew were knackers, but served them anyway. One group had one or two pints. When one left (a woman), the husband grabbed her & pulled her back. She punched him. All hell broke loose. About 30 knackers started to kick the crap out of each other. Luckily, the manager was able to arrange for a few of the bouncers from the nightclub part of the pub to come in, and they were able to contain it, and get the knackers to move outside. 2 gardai riot vans and 3 squad cars took some of the trouble makers away. I had to mop up the pools of blood, caused by one of the knackers using a knife to carve a wound into one of the other knackers. All of this took place 6 meters from where I was serving drinks, so I know how they behave.

As much as I hate them, I agree that there should be a halting site for them, but when they do get it, they'll complain that they don't have certain facilities that "the settled community has". But hey, f**khead; we pay for them. Let’s see you do likewise!
Also, if one family goes in, it’s very unlikely another family will join them, due to ancient family rivalries.

In my area, there are 16 caravans/mobiles homes on one street (illegally), and 6 on another, and more keep coming.

=====

In summary;

IF I LITTER I GET FINED.

IF THEY LITTER, THEY GET A RENT FREE SITE, FREE RUNNING WATER, AND FREE ELECTRITY, WHICH MY TAX'S MUST PAY FOR.

ArphaRima

Fluffer, racism is never common sense!

Bloody great. Throw it on a bumper sticker will you?! Im trying to have a discussion here. If you want to throw buzzwords for 5 year olds around go do it elsewhere.

Blub2k4

fluffer wrote:

Somehow I feel you havent had much luck convincing any of your relatives or friends otherwise. Have a conversation at the pub with people you know, see how lonely you will be on your side of the line.

Funny enough my mother works on an adult education program in Roscommon with travelling families. My friends are mostly like minded or at least not openly bigoted like yourself, again you want to stop talking for people you dont know and stick to what you know.
Now here's a site where you will definitely find others who are openly racist where you can definitely get away unchallenged with the type of muck you are spouting www.stormfront.org

stevenmu

Flukey wrote:

Sure we hear a lot of bad things in the media about Travellers, but then as is always the case, the good things don't make the news. If there were 10 muggings in town tonight, one by a Traveller, that is the one we are most likely to hear about. If in some of the other muggings a Traveller came along and intervened and rescued the victim, you can be sure that we would not hear about that. We are more likely to see a headline like "Man mugged by Traveller" than "Traveller rescues man in attempted mugging."

People on this very forum, several of the other boards forums and other forums in general often post about the type of scum you've mentioned, muggers, rapists, corrupt politicians etc.. Just because other people behave like that doesn't excuse travellers behaviour. Certainly not all travellers live up to the reputation but, based on anecdotal evidence it seems a mjority of them do. Within this thread, and in general there are many stories of negative behaviour by the travelling community but the only things people can say in defense of them are that they never personally had a problem or else wave the racism flag.

Personally I think that at this stage they're raised to expect that the settled community will hate them and to hate it in return. If they want to be accepted by society they have to start behaving in a way more acceptable to it.

FX Meister

Similar to that recent post, my mother used to run a CE scheme in Ballymun, a problem turned up with one of the workers whereby she had not been on the dole long enough to be elligible for the CE scheme. But because she was a traveller she didn't have to wait. She didn't look, sound or act like the travellers we stereotypically think of.

ArphaRima

stop talking for people you dont know and stick to what you know.

What I know.

1. I have personally on a number of occasions had my life threatened by groups of travellers.
2. My friends on a number of occasions have had their lives threatened by travellers.
3. MY friend's relatives on an occasion have had to resort to threatening the lives of travellers.

1: I explained the general outline of the first point above.
2: Two of my friends on separate occasions have been threatened with knives outside the local camp. The attackers on one occasion then walked straight into said camp.
3. Travellers opened the fence on a his uncle's cattle field, and promptly moved 4 caravans into it, and refused to leave. The travellers demanded 2500 euro to be moved on. The same trick had been pulled the week before in a nearby town. The gardai said they were powerless.
10 local men with shotguns moved on the opportunistic caravans that night.

Blub2k4

stevenmu wrote:

Personally I think that at this stage they're raised to expect that the settled community will hate them and to hate it in return. If they want to be accepted by society they have to start behaving in a way more acceptable to it.

Your opinion is very exclusionist, you see the travellers dont really give a **** whether they are accepted by the public at large and I wouldn't blame them, at the end of the day the society that has been created excludes them by default so they have their culture and all that it demands is respect.
Building the wall there is akin to the Israeli wall at the moment, it is collective punishment for the bad actions of a few and is not right, that is what it actually comes down to.
Would any of you find it reasonable if the entrance to your estate that lead to your local shops was blocked off with concrete and you had to drive 7 miles to get to a go or the shops or school?
Tax etc are all BS human creations that fit within your nice framework that you may call life, humanity is not.
CONSULT NOT INSULT is what was written on the signs, that is the crux.

I am one of the few people in this thread who was held up an hour last night getting home cos our normal routes were blocked, I dont know what time I will get home this evening as there has been a threat to block the toll bridge that we used last night, are you affected, if not then you are bitter over something that has nothing to do with this issue and should be over at stormfront too, they have a platform for your sort. I still support their right to protest.

Zulu

I'm not racist - knackers aren't a race.

Zulu

Blub2k4 wrote:

Would any of you find it reasonable if the entrance to your estate that lead to your local shops was blocked off with concrete and you had to drive 7 miles to get to a go or the shops or school?

Are they settled? No? Your example dosen't work - it's not as if we can move our house.

Blub2k4 wrote:

I still support their right to protest.

Interesting, do you support their right to throw stones at passing traffic? Would you support that right if they caused a big crash and people died.

Do they care if they cause a crash?

Blub2k4

fluffer wrote:

10 local men with shotguns moved on the opportunistic caravans that night.

They're called vigilantes and they should be locked up. Man I thought you were having a discussion but you're only airing prejudice.

The Gardai were ****less, not powerless, that was trespass and should have been dealt with as such.

To be honest you're coming accross as a Timothy McVeigh type now, supporting gun toting people who no longer trust in the security provided by the state.