damn travellers

monkeyfudge

Zulu wrote:

I'm not racist - knackers aren't a race.

But they are an ethnic minority and you've just used a very derogatory term to describe them.

Gurgle

monkeyfudge wrote:

But they are an ethnic minority and you've just used a very derogatory term to describe them.

In what way are the knackers an ethnic minority ?

Tusky

Gurgle wrote:

In what way are the knackers an ethnic minority ?

Aye , aint they just people who live in caravans ? If I went into a field and set up a tent and lived there....had kids who lived in tents....who had kids who lived in tents....would we then be an ethnic minority ?

One more thing - How is it that we can tell a traveller just by the look of them , im not talking about clothes - im talking about apperance..as in the face... they all look similar... This is soemthiing Im genuinely ignorant and curious about so if someone could shed some light on it twud be great thanks.

Blub2k4

Zulu wrote:

Are they settled? No? Your example dosen't work - it's not as if we can move our house.

My example doesn't work cos you say so? So they should all just pack up and move from where they live? They live in Dunsink, 80 families should just go where exactly, stupid question innit cos you dont care, so wont even give it a thought?

Zulu wrote:

Interesting, do you support their right to throw stones at passing traffic? Would you support that right if they caused a big crash and people died.

You didn't read the whole thread did you now, well despite your willingness to jump in uninformed and all lazy like I will answer with this:

Blub2k4 wrote:

the spokesman in fairness did say that there were actions in dunsink that have no place in a peaceful demo but then the good guy is not going to get his voice heard in all that white noise is he now?

Zulu wrote:

Do they care if they cause a crash?

They didn't cause a crash, and in any case here's the view of a local who knows some of the faces involved:

fiacha wrote:

i recognised some of the faces from my area there aswell.
so not all the trouble was being caused by the travellers

Well said Stark.

ArphaRima

Man I thought you were having a discussion but you're only airing prejudice

This discussion is about prejudice. I am telling you what lengths some people are going to. I never said I supported their actions. However I cannot decry them.

Blub2k4, all you have done so far is throw a tree hugging politically correct line at everybody's argument so far.
Tell me how I should react to travellers when I meet them on the street or see them on the side of the road. What has EXPERIENCE taught me? If I should be reacting differently tell me why.

that was trespass and should have been dealt with as such

Could a landowner or someone who knows a landowner explain to him the process for removing travellers from land?

Explain it to the county council and the residents near bushy park in dublin.

Blub2k4

Tusky wrote:

Aye , aint they just people who live in caravans ? If I went into a field and set up a tent and lived there....had kids who lived in tents....who had kids who lived in tents....would we then be an ethnic minority ?

One more thing - How is it that we can tell a traveller just by the look of them , im not talking about clothes - im talking about apperance..as in the face... they all look similar... This is soemthiing Im genuinely ignorant and curious about so if someone could shed some light on it twud be great thanks.

The reason you recognise them is because they are an ethnic minority and not just people who live in caravans, and that's the nice version of the answer only cos you admitted ignorance.

JW123

Gurgle wrote:

In what way are the knackers an ethnic minority ?

They are not an ethnic minority, they are Irish, always have been always will be. That tag is just been thrown around to let them get away with all the crap thats been going on for years. In the same way the racism tag has only entered the discussion for travellers over the last few years, because they know if it's banded about a bit people won't be allowed to criticise them with out been denounced.

Blub2k4

fluffer wrote:

Blub2k4, all you have done so far is throw a tree hugging politically correct line at everybody's argument so far.
Tell me how I should react to travellers when I meet them on the street or see them on the side of the road. What has EXPERIENCE taught me? If I should be reacting differently tell me why.

Thanks I like being called a treehugger by racists.
You should not react any different to them, that is the whole thing with treating people the same. How would you deal with a settled person at the side of the road, the question is of such hugely ignorant proportions that I really dont know how to answer it.

Blub2k4 wrote:

Could a landowner or someone who knows a landowner explain to him the process for removing travellers from land?

That wouldn't be because you dont know now would it? Doesn't stop you spouting your ****e and parading your ignorance though.

fluffer wrote:

Explain it to the county council and the residents near bushy park in dublin.

Where you dont live right?


if it quacks like a duck .....

the_syco

Blub2k4 wrote:

The Gardai were ****less, not powerless, that was trespass and should have been dealt with as such.

Have you seen this happen? Ever? Thought not. Why? Its becasue they don't have the manpower to move 16 caravans.
Also, as they "have nowhere to move to", they won't move, unless you pay them to.

Blub2k4 wrote:

My example doesn't work cos you say so? So they should all just pack up and move from where they live? They live in Dunsink, 80 families should just go where exactly, stupid question innit cos you dont care, so wont even give it a thought?

So far you've not given a way around it. Please state how we should treat the massive problem, realisticly. And don't just use one exaple. Your idea has to, realisticly, be viable in all parts of the country, as this isn't just some little problem. This probelm is widespread. And by problem, I mean that when they leave, they leave a big mess. Surely they couldn't have used up 2 cars, 10 fridges, 2 baths, countless tires, in 2 months? But they leave this behind.

Also, the idea of providing halting sites may sound nice, but who will pay for them?

Blub2k4

JW123 wrote:

They are not an ethnic minority, they are Irish, always have been always will be. That tag is just been thrown around to let them get away with all the crap thats been going on for years. In the same way the racism tag has only entered the discussion for travellers over the last few years, because they know if it's banded about a bit people won't be allowed to criticise them with out been denounced.

http://sca.lib.liv.ac.uk/collections/gypsy/travell.htm
Irish Travellers belong to a distinct ethnic group within Ireland. They have their own language, beliefs and social customs which have been made stronger over time due to their exclusion and marginalisation from mainstream "settled" society.

Is there such a thing as a font of ignorance, cos a few people here are quaffing deeply from it?

Blub2k4

I dont have time to respond to you all nor the inclination really, you can all continue with whatever line of ****e you like, remember karma.
Have a nice weekend.
(now I hope I get home early enough this evening)

ArphaRima

It seems you find yourself rather lonely on that side of the line this afternoon anyway.

If you could please answer questions with something other than:

the question is of such hugely ignorant proportions that I really dont know how to answer it.

Then I welcome continuing this discussion.

And no. I dont live near bushy park. But I will add it was closely followed by the media as one of the worst environmental cleanups required in dublin in years, costing over 100,000 euro I believe. (cant find the article) if anyone can help, do.

Boggle

Tell you what - if I had kids and subjected them to the living conditions that most travellers subject their kids to the dept of social services would have them kids taken away from me. Why should they be allowed to ruin their kids lives by making them live like that? (I'm waiting for all the bleeding hearts living in fairyland to tell me I'm a racist)

JW123

Maybe with all the negative remarks travellers receive off people they are just reacting back

Boggle

To Blub: Would you live beside a halting site? Would you leave your kids play outside with bloody 12 year olds racing around the place in their cars? You can tell me that it doesn't happen all you want but the fact of anyone who has lived around or near nackers jnows this to be the case. You say they have been nice to you which is great but dont forget you are giving them training for nothing and even an idiot wont bite the hand that feeds him.

You can say what you like re being racism but unfortunately it is realism that prompts my hostility toward the community. You can argue with me when you have had copper stolen from your workshop or dogs stolen from your garden and are really seeing what these 'people' are like. Who else goes around and parks up on someone elses land refusing to leave unless payed. If they want to stop somewhere then let them buy plots collectively and be responsible individually for the maintenance of those plots. Just like I am responsible for my home. At least that way they are not just a leech on society.

ArphaRima

leaving one with bite marks on his arm and ear,

The victims had disembarked at their bus stop but were followed by the youth and his friend. The youth then attacked the two boys.

This was not a reactionary attack nor self defence. They had an argument on the bus. He then followed them and attacked and bit them.

JW123

Blub2k4 wrote:

Is there such a thing as a font of ignorance, cos a few people here are quaffing deeply from it?

Ok, apologies. They are without doubt the most law abiding people on the planet, in fact probably on a par with the Dalai Lama. Once again the problem is with the Racist, bigoted, non tax paying, non working, law breaking Irish settled community.

ArphaRima

JW123

Not a single member of my family has a criminal record. Not one. Not anyone from my grandmother to my cousins, my uncles, my parents, and my brothers and sisters.
Maybe thats rare. I dont know.

But how many traveller families do you reckon can say that? Or even say that the average amount of offences averages one per person?

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

JW123

fluffer wrote:

JW123

Not a single member of my family has a criminal record. Not one. Not anyone from my grandmother to my cousins, my uncles, my parents, and my brothers and sisters.
Maybe thats rare. I dont know.

But how many traveller families do you reckon can say that? Or even say that the average amount of offences averages one per person?

I know, I was been sarcastic

vector

Boggle wrote:

Tell you what - if I had kids and subjected them to the living conditions that most travellers subject their kids to the dept of social services would have them kids taken away from me. Why should they be allowed to ruin their kids lives by making them live like that? (I'm waiting for all the bleeding hearts living in fairyland to tell me I'm a racist)

Why do members of the travelling community have so many children?

Where do members of the travelling community get their money from
(to buy petrol, food, clothes etc)?

BuffyBot

much in the same way I dont like knackers and I dont like bagels.
.

Mmmm, racist is a rather stupid word to be bandying around in these sorts of threads, but on boards you tend to have a high proportion of people posting anecdotes and experiences about one group of bagels and holding it to be true of all bagels..sorry, travellers.

ArphaRima

Dont like bagels. Never have.
I guess I never will until somebody introduces me to one I do like.

Gurgle

AFAIK the 'ethnic' group of travellers were the ones who, in pre-famine centuries, moved around the country as general handy-men. The fixed stuff, they made a contribution to their society. The current ones are decended from the peasants who became homeless during the famine & couldn't get the fare together to leave the country. They aren't an ethnic group, they are alcoholic violent wasters.

Are there any of the old type left ?

OfflerCrocGod

Tusky wrote:

Aye , aint they just people who live in caravans ? If I went into a field and set up a tent and lived there....had kids who lived in tents....who had kids who lived in tents....would we then be an ethnic minority ?

Yep you'd be Tuskiet scum....I already hate all of you :mad: Damn you Tusky!!!

Tusky

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

Yep you'd be Tuskiet scum....I already hate all of you :mad: Damn you Tusky!!!

hehe - I wash me bleeden-self with a child on a stick.

nlgbbbblth

Tusky wrote:

One more thing - How is it that we can tell a traveller just by the look of them , im not talking about clothes - im talking about apperance..as in the face... they all look similar... This is soemthiing Im genuinely ignorant and curious about so if someone could shed some light on it twud be great thanks.

Do gay/lesbian travellers exist?
Would their community be accepting towards them?

Do Protestant travellers exist?

billy the squid

on second thoughts i thing i will restrain myslf from commenting please ignore, the thread was quite emotive..

the_syco

Gurgle wrote:

AFAIK the 'ethnic' group of travellers were the ones who, in pre-famine centuries, moved around the country as general handy-men. The fixed stuff, they made a contribution to their society. The current ones are decended from the peasants who became homeless during the famine & couldn't get the fare together to leave the country. They aren't an ethnic group, they are alcoholic violent wasters.

Are there any of the old type left ?

Yes. But the old type are hard to find. If you see the old type, you'll think theyre just a family gone camping, as theres no heaps of rubbish nearby, and they get on well with the locals.

billy the squid wrote:

on second thoughts i thing i will restrain myslf from commenting please ignore, the thread was quite emotive..

Please tell.

billy the squid

Please tell.

if you insist

JW123

Not a single member of my family has a criminal record. Not one. Not anyone from my grandmother to my cousins, my uncles, my parents, and my brothers and sisters.
Maybe thats rare. I dont know.

But how many traveller families do you reckon can say that? Or even say

My parents were members of the travelling community, and they had no criminal record. Yeah there are travellers who I would like to see wiped off the face of the earth, but then there are settled people whom should suffer the same fate too.

How many threads have been posted on this very website about people being robbed mugged assaulted. What percentage of them were travellers and what percentage of them were just corporation estate scumbags and drug addicts.

that the average amount of offences averages one per person?

do you have a link ?

Lest we not forget that there was rubbish belonging to settled people being dumped in that area which prompted the corporation to block off that road. And yes I do know the first names of some travellers, however I donk know many which have washing machines plumbed into their caravans, so where did the ones in that field come from............It couldnt be..........settled people?

Mayshine

billy the squid wrote:

How many threads have been posted on this very website about people being robbed mugged assaulted. What percentage of them were travellers and what percentage of them were just corporation estate scumbags and drug addicts.

To be honest I think you wll find that most people on this thread basically dislike these two groups of people about as much as each other. Scum is scum whether it lives in a house or a caravan.

To be honest travellers are a very strange group of people. In this day and age their lifestyle is pretty redundant. I can understand in the past the need for people like handyman to do DIY jobs for people at the like but these days there is no place in the 'real' world for travellers. They are now effectively skillless and useless, and as such that is pulling their 'lifestyle' under threat

Maybe it is time that these people realised this and started to move their "race" into the twenty-first century like most other "races" are doing. You know by doing things like hmmm, getting an education or maybe even a job.

If not then they are I believe effectively destined to a life of crime and boozing and with any luck their eventual extinction..

Quatre Mains

Mayshine wrote:

In this day and age their lifestyle is pretty redundant. I can understand in the past the need for people like handyman to do DIY jobs for people at the like but these days there is no place in the 'real' world for travellers. They are now effectively skillless and useless, and as such that is pulling their 'lifestyle' under threat.

thats a good point. Some of the travellers' woes are self-inflicted. There was a documentary on rte a while ago called Scrap Lads, which basically followed a couple of teenage male travellers who were trying to make a living out of scrap metal. Eventually the older lad decided he had to try getting a regular job, but he had no skills because he never finished school. While I'm only guessing on this, I'd say I wouldn't be too far off in saying at least 90% of travellers wouldn't have a leaving cert. Unless more kids from the travelling community complete their education the current problems will never abate, because in this country no leaving cert means exclusion from the vast majority of jobs no matter what your background.

Gurgle

billy the squid wrote:

My parents were members of the travelling community, and they had no criminal record.

Fair play to them!

Were you born into the travelling community or had your parents settled and joined mainstream society by the time you were born ?

billy the squid wrote:

Yeah there are travellers who I would like to see wiped off the face of the earth, but then there are settled people whom should suffer the same fate too.

Agree, 100%.

billy the squid wrote:

Lest we not forget that there was rubbish belonging to settled people being dumped in that area which prompted the corporation to block off that road.

When I use the word 'knacker', I mean it to include those scum too, even if they have no travellers in their ancestry. Not all travellers are knackers either.

billy the squid wrote:

And yes I do know the first names of some travellers

Any of them make any contribution to society ?

Mayshine

from independent.ie

Mother-of-two Bernadette McDonagah, a resident of Dunsink Lane, said: "It's like the Berlin Wall. This protest won't stop until it's down."

If only it was like the Berlin Wall......

Canis Lupus

arent there some rumours in some of the papers that the wall is also there to prevent some fuel landering thing going on?

Dancing_Priest

When I hear these arguments it just reminds me of watching interviews with white trash made in the 40's and 50's and listening then talk about Black people.
This is exactly how this all looks to anyone who has never had a few experiences with travellers.
I personally do know a few travellers through work and when they come in they are decent and for the most part pay in cash without much bother (or rather they did, but thats beside the point now). I've had conversations with them and chatted away with them. But the fact of the matter is that if they don't likeyou they are very violent people. One of them got in a fight in school and after he had knocked the other guy to the floor he kept on kicking him in the face.
When I was about 11, I was in a market and 3 travellers started to hastle me, for no reason whatsoever, apart from he fact I wouldnt give them money. I would have got a beating If I had'nt picked up the smallest (about 6) and ****ed him into a stall and ran for my life.
All in all Ive had a few bad experiences with travellers and a few where I came off no worse the wear. but with travellers I've never had a positive experience.
On the other hand I have had plenty of fun experiences with what are considered skangers, I've smoked up with a few and a lot of them are very intellegent and very funny guys who have learned a lot about people and human nature and the ways of the world. Ive talked to ex heroin addicts who have some really terrible stories to tell and have went through so much that they can just chill out and be mellow because they know that It cant get any worse than It was.

OfflerCrocGod

Canis Lupus wrote:

arent there some rumours in some of the papers that the wall is also there to prevent some fuel landering thing going on?

Yes there were also weapons ( firearms ) being dumped there. This points to the fact that this place could have been a nice little spot for the IRA/Drug Dealers/Criminal Elements to use to get rid of stuff and to hide materials. The fact of the matter is that the area was lawless the ESB and An Post have stopped servicing the area because of attacks on their personnel even backed up by the Police environmental officers were threatened at knife point for doing their jobs. Cameras were set up and within 24 hours they all disappeared without a trace. What was going on in there was not just some "dumping" of fridges but large-scale, varied and criminal activities. It had to be tackled by the Council and this was the only reasonable way of doing that, this will hopefully bring back law and order to this "Wild West Of Finglas". The travellers don't want law and order to be brought to were they live, at the moment they live like they want and do what they want.

Tusky wrote:

I know the road in question and travel by it twice a day. The most dangerous thing about that road is not the random things by the roadside but the travellers driving up and down it like madmen. They pull out onto the road without looking and at high speeds .I have almost been in a crash a half dozen times. I have seen kids as young as 11 or 12 driving cars up and down the road between sites and have been given the finger for no reason many times too

They don't want to change that state of affairs.

billy the squid

Gurgle wrote:

Fair play to them!

Were you born into the travelling community or had your parents settled and joined mainstream society by the time you were born ?


Agree, 100%.


When I use the word 'knacker', I mean it to include those scum too, even if they have no travellers in their ancestry. Not all travellers are knackers either.


Any of them make any contribution to society ?

Actually they settled down after say their fifth child, for whatever reason it was felt by both of them that it would be more suitable to bring up small children in a house than a cold caravan.

myself and a few others in my family have gone to thrid level, most of us work and pay taxes. Other relatives of ours are still living in the travelling community, and we still have some really decent friends in the travelling community. I also have family members working in other countries

I have noticed that when people use the word "knacker" they are refering to the type of people that would put a syringe to your throat for a fiver, whether they be settled or not. It is like alot of words in the english language, its use has changed over time.

X-Dawg

The main thing that pisses me off about travellers is the damn mess they leave behind. Why is it NECESSARY to burn out cars? I always drive past the caravans at the "Clare Hall" side of the M50 (near Bewleys) and the friggin' mess is ridiculous. If they want to be treated with respect, then why live like filthy pigs?
If anything, they get special treatment that I don't get - free horses, they don't have to go to school, they don't have to pay tax, no road tax, no car insurance, Gardai are afraid to hassle them, they don't have to read books, and I couldn't even afford a swanky caravan like they have if I wanted one!

Mayshine

X-Dawg wrote:

The main thing that pisses me off about travellers is the damn mess they leave behind. Why is it NECESSARY to burn out cars? I always drive past the caravans at the "Clare Hall" side of the M50 (near Bewleys) and the friggin' mess is ridiculous. If they want to be treated with respect, then why live like filthy pigs?
If anything, they get special treatment that I don't get - free horses, they don't have to go to school, they don't have to pay tax, no road tax, no car insurance, Gardai are afraid to hassle them, they don't have to read books, and I couldn't even afford a swanky caravan like they have if I wanted one!

Sounds like you are jealous

Slunk

Begin long Rant:
Ok, first of all, I live across the road from dunsink lane.I have seen these travellers the last few nights since the wall was put in place.I have been standing on the field watching the gardai drive by in their vans and cars as they get everything and anything hurled at them.Eventually the gardai stopped coming down.The travellers were actually wanting them to come down and then when they seen them they charged towards to gardai cars. On RTE news the other night one woman said she has to walk an hour and a half to the nearist chemist. :rolleyes: I believe its five minutes at most as there is one beside dunnes stores.They cant send their kids to school. :rolleyes: They can see the school from dunsink lane.They cant drive thier cars or vans. :rolleyes: They have no tax or insurance for them anyway.They are also selling dielsel fuel and fireworks from one of the sites on dunsink lane.If I were to try sell diesel from my garden id be jailed. The road was closed because it is dangerous for road users.it was in the evening herald about the guy who swerved to avoid rubbish and his car crashed resulting in over 100 stitches to his head.
The travellers had a digger out last night with one of those mechanical hammer thingys drilling into the wall to try knock it down.Thats damage to govermnt property.If I done that Id be jailed.They cant get away with this.Anything goes wrong for them they just say that it is an attack on the travelling comunity.Its discrimination and it always works for them.
End of rant.

Tusky

Slunk wrote:

Begin long Rant:
Ok, first of all, I live across the road from dunsink lane.I have seen these travellers the last few nights since the wall was put in place.I have been standing on the field watching the gardai drive by in their vans and cars as they get everything and anything hurled at them.Eventually the gardai stopped coming down.The travellers were actually wanting them to come down and then when they seen them they charged towards to gardai cars. On RTE news the other night one woman said she has to walk an hour and a half to the nearist chemist. :rolleyes: I believe its five minutes at most as there is one beside dunnes stores.They cant send their kids to school. :rolleyes: They can see the school from dunsink lane.They cant drive thier cars or vans. :rolleyes: They have no tax or insurance for them anyway.They are also selling dielsel fuel and fireworks from one of the sites on dunsink lane.If I were to try sell diesel from my garden id be jailed. The road was closed because it is dangerous for road users.it was in the evening herald about the guy who swerved to avoid rubbish and his car crashed resulting in over 100 stitches to his head.
The travellers had a digger out last night with one of those mechanical hammer thingys drilling into the wall to try knock it down.Thats damage to govermnt property.If I done that Id be jailed.They cant get away with this.Anything goes wrong for them they just say that it is an attack on the travelling comunity.Its discrimination and it always works for them.
End of rant.

very well said...I can concur about the school being close... when driving by that area I see the traveller children WALKING to school...its literally about 3 minutes walk... same with the shops.

gurramok

I concur with Slunk.

The school is called Patrician College and it's straight across the road, less than 1 min walk.
I live in Valley Park Est. which is right beside the barrier, the response of the travelling community to this barrier has been a disgrace, there must be legal means to follow if they feel they are hard done by. Using violence on a nightly basis is not on.

If that was me as a settled person blocking roads, firing stones at parked cars, setting fire to the barrier constantly, I would be carted off in a Garda van with truncheon wounds.

The Garda response to all this is disgraceful, I have rang them 3 times so far this week about ongoing violence on Ratoath road and all i get is advice to stay out as its too dangerous even though I live here !!

Also the illegal traveller encampents on left hand side of Dunsink Lane are still there after 30 yrs, travellers should be integrated in all areas for social inclusion not just placed at huge halting sites like St Marys Park.

billy the squid

does 100percent of the traveller children go to the same school, where is the next secondary school?

I know that on the street i am now living not all the kids go to the same school.

RicardoSmith

Its very likely that dumping on Dunsink has been by both travellers and non travellers, but building a wall was moronic. It was only going to provoke one kind of reaction and resolve nothing. I'd love to know how they built in the first place though. That said the travellers part of the lane has been a disgrace for decade. Much like all traveller sites I've ever seen. I've never known one to enhance the area, or indeed add anything to the local community. I'm sure there must be exceptions, but they are exceptions, and thats the main point isn't it. Personally my experiences of travellers have been largely negative and pretty much stereotypical. Thats the sad reality.

RicardoSmith

billy the squid wrote:

does 100percent of the traveller children go to the same school, where is the next secondary school?

I know that on the street i am now living not all the kids go to the same school.

Why should the travellers conform to the settled community patterns?

gurramok

billy the squid wrote:

does 100percent of the traveller children go to the same school, where is the next secondary school?

I know that on the street i am now living not all the kids go to the same school.

Patrician is the boys secondary school, the girls secondary school is near Cappagh hospital, a 5 min walk. Most go to either.

After that add another 10 min walk if they go to another sec. school in the area

Tusky

RicardoSmith wrote:

Why should the travellers conform to the settled community patterns?

Because their way of life is moronic in this day and age, never mind the fact that its impossible in a city, specially a capital city.The way they expect to live is unacceptable if you ask me.

nlgbbbblth

nlgbbbblth wrote:

Do gay/lesbian travellers exist?
Would their community be accepting towards them?

Do Protestant travellers exist?

to be honest I believe that the vast majority of travellers are religious - strong Catholics. No unmarried mothers there and possibly not very much sex before marriage. If that is the case I would surmise that they would not be very tolerant of same-sex relationships within the community.

still waiting guys...

can anyone confirm the above?

The_Conductor

According to the Customs and Excise Officers, who raided the place on Wednesday with an armed Gardai escort- there is a massive diesel laundering operation in place there. The Bollards were put in place to disrupt deliveries of agricultural (and marine) fuel to the site, and to prevent removal of acid treated fuel oil from the site. The confiscation of two handguns was a peripheral operation on the day. Traders in the area report to be in terror of the "Princes" (whoever they are), and dispute the garda asertain that the area is not "reknowned for being lawless".

S.