Moore the merrier.....

Pull!theother1

Watched "Bowling" last night and wondered what all the hype was about.
Moore was certainly anti "Old white guy" (Heston) and I felt sorry for the dude as he was a soft target and his treatment brought no glory on the interviewer..... catch me once shame on you and all that!
He was anti NRA. (Did his attempted linking of the NRA and the KKK go un-litigated in the land of the Free?)
He was anti fair play (use crippled and maimed kids to own purpose in blackmailing KMART into ceasing to sell pistol ammo? Come on, how low can you get?)
The fact that 10,000,000 homes in Canada had 7,000,000 firearms ( Moores figures) with neglible firearms deaths (if any death is negligable) compared to the carnage in the USA only goes to prove once more (or should that be "once Moore"?) that people kill people, not guns. And maybe the Canadians can afford to leave their doors unlocked because if you were a criminal would you break in where there was a 70% chance of meeting a gun toting resident?
America is a country under siege, real or imaginary, internaly and externaly.
We live in a state where we are relativly safe in our homes (midnight on the street is another story for another time) and we should be grateful for that and therefore do not have the right to comment on our US neighbours situation.
It has been proven, time and again that where guns or a class of gun is ciminalised only the criminals will possess them.............. (e.g. hand guns in UK and certain states in USA).
As shooters we have become a little paranoid ( perhaps justifably bearing in mind our treatment at the hands of various state agencies over the years and a media which is not dis-similar to the American model and thrives on FEAR) but let us give the non-shooting public some credit. Perhaps some may have watched last night and seen us all as "gun nuts" but the majority were probably watching other frankly more interesting programs and those who did watch are not all so innocent or naieve in this doubting age as to belive all or even a fraction of what they saw.
So let us extend to others the privilage to criticise us and our sport so long as in return we receive the privilage (after all in Ireland it is such to be allowed possess a firearm and not the right endowed in the USA) to pursue our sport, a ligitimate activity licenced by the state and harmlessly enjoyed by hundreds of thousands of law abiding citizens?
And let us keep the debate civilised, adult, non-personalised, non-emotive and reasonable, unlike our critics.............

Irishglockfan

Nicely put Pull!!



He was anti NRA. (Did his attempted linking of the NRA and the KKK go un-litigated in the land of the Free?)

Protected under 1st amendment rights of freedom of speech,press,and religion.
libel cases are almost impossible to fight in the US

The fact that 10,000,000 homes in Canada had 7,000,000 firearms ( Moores figures) with neglible firearms deaths (if any death is negligable) compared to the carnage in the USA only goes to prove once more (or should that be "once Moore"?) that people kill people, not guns. And maybe the Canadians can afford to leave their doors unlocked because if you were a criminal would you break in where there was a 70% chance of meeting a gun toting resident?

That was PRE 96[?] figures.Canada is now no better than the rest for gun confiscation and bans.Surprisingly[not] their crime figures are going thru the roof now as well for armed crime.their buy back scheme for ALL semi auto rifles [inc 22 and shotguns and handgunsof all types failed dismally and est was six times over budget]

America is a country under siege, real or imaginary, internaly and externaly.
We live in a state where we are relativly safe in our homes (midnight on the street is another story for another time) and we should be grateful for that and therefore do not have the right to comment on our US neighbours situation. THANK YOU!
It has been proven, time and again that where guns or a class of gun is ciminalised only the criminals will possess them.............. (e.g. hand guns in UK and certain states in USA).AMEN!!!

As shooters we have become a little paranoid ( perhaps justifably bearing in mind our treatment at the hands of various state agencies over the years and a media which is not dis-similar to the American model and thrives on FEAR) but let us give the non-shooting public some credit. Perhaps some may have watched last night and seen us all as "gun nuts" but the majority were probably watching other frankly more interesting programs and those who did watch are not all so innocent or naieve in this doubting age as to belive all or even a fraction of what they saw.

Unless they are of the nature because of Moores anti Bush stance,[which is OT and irrevelant to this].That makes Moore good and therefore all he says and writes and directs is good and truthful.It is very difficult to have a balanced judgement on anything if you are not given the other side of the story.
EG like nowadays you have to watch Al jazerra to balance that FOX or CNN is saying to get a relatively clear pic on what is going on in iraq So when are we going to see a "pro gun" film over here,like innocence betrayed.


And let us keep the debate civilised, adult, non-personalised, non-emotive and reasonable, unlike our critics.............[/QUOTE]

NUFF said on this

Barry Aldwell

Pull!theother1 wrote:

As shooters we have become a little paranoid ( perhaps justifably bearing in mind our treatment at the hands of various state agencies over the years and a media which is not dis-similar to the American model and thrives on FEAR)

Interestingly, Moore complains about media which thrives on fear, and then goes on to throw statistics around that make out that America is the worst place in the world to live, and scare the living bejesus out of a lot of people. Pot, kettle, black tbh

Pull!theother1

Barry Aldwell wrote:

Interestingly, Moore complains about media which thrives on fear, and then goes on to throw statistics around that make out that America is the worst place in the world to live, and scare the living bejesus out of a lot of people. Pot, kettle, black tbh

And that is why we as shooters have little to fear!

Moore and his ilk can peddle all the propoganda they wish, but any right minded person watching (presuming that they are in the majority and therefore the ones we most need to have on our side) who sees a sign of even one piece of spin or just plain outright lie will surely question the rest of the "FACTS" presented and thus the argument is lost?

We have to presume that the majority of the people who do not shoot are also sane inteligent individuals who have the power of reason. And thus the "Anti-gun nuts" will become as much a cause for derision as the so called "gun nuts".

By nature Irish shooters in general tend to keep a low profile so as not to draw the unwanted attention of undesirables and at times the authorities both to ourselves and our sport, and that is our weakest link.

All we realy have to do is ensure that the politicians get to hear both sides of the argument (and realise that we have votes in numbers also) and thus our biggest threat, legislation, can at least be met with reason rather than hysterics.

A bit naieve I know but is that not how the NRA holds such sway (Votes + Cash = Power/Attention/Influence)? And surely that is what the anti-gun nuts not so much fear but are most jealous of?

Sparks

Pull!theother1 wrote:

Moore and his ilk can peddle all the propoganda they wish, but any right minded person watching (presuming that they are in the majority and therefore the ones we most need to have on our side) who sees a sign of even one piece of spin or just plain outright lie will surely question the rest of the "FACTS" presented and thus the argument is lost?

Assuming, of course, that that spin or outright lie is actually seen. Most people here don't know enough about firearms or firearms law in the US to notice the errors, slants or outright falsehoods in the film.
That said, remember that Moore is basicly the left-wing version of Anne Coulter - and there are more than enough people on the other extreme to balance him out. So those who merrily bash people who have reservations about allowing anyone to own any kind of firearm without any sort of controls or training need to just accept that Moore is in effect, their anti-gun counterpart! It's a "let he who is without sin..." situation, at least in the US. (It's not quite so bad here )

By nature Irish shooters in general tend to keep a low profile so as not to draw the unwanted attention of undesirables and at times the authorities both to ourselves and our sport, and that is our weakest link.

Hear, hear!

A bit naieve I know

I do wish people would stop saying that Kantian philosophy is naive and that only a Hobbsian approach is realistic. It's pretty much the other way around in reality...

ferdi

moore is a pleb

but anyone who supports gun culture in any way is a dangerous fool.

Sparks

ferdi wrote:

but anyone who supports gun culture in any way is a dangerous fool.

Before the flamewar starts, fair warning from the moderator - it'll end very quickly if this thread starts down the personal insults road. Both sides should read the charter.

Ferdi, you need to define what you mean by "gun culture". And you should be more careful with your phrasing - that comment comes very close to being a personal insult.

Irishglockfan

Sparks,
Me smells a TROLL from the last post!1

Sparks

Irishglockfan wrote:

Sparks,
Me smells a TROLL from the last post!1

Ferdi's got a little over two thousand posts on boards.ie though Glock, trolls tend to have only a scant few. Benefit of the doubt and all that.