Golf Course ruined

giftgrub

now i'm not much of a golf fan but i think this is a disgrace

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/1012/traveller.html

Dublin golf course damaged by vandals

12 October 2004 14:25
Gardaí investigating vandalism at a Dublin golf course are looking at a link between the damage and recent Travellers' protests over a road barrier.

The managers of Elmgreen public golf course in Castleknock say the vandalism caused damage of more than €60,000.

Staff at Elmgreen Golf Course discovered that 11 out of 18 greens had been dug up with pickaxes and shovels when they opened this morning. Slogans were dug into the grass.

Gardaí are investigating. The course is owned by Fingal County Council.

Pavee Point, which has acted for residents on Dunsink Lane, said the vandalism was out of order and was not part of their strategy.

just watched tv3 news as well...slogans included...OPEN ROAD GARDA SCUM and my own favourite EDDIE

i think theres better ways of getting your point across

ShiverinEskimo

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Now where is everyone going to play to golf.

But yea leave the road shut. Me no like knacker scum.

Seriously though, everyone has been saying "Feck them, they are all criminals". And they dispute that generalisation. You would think they would not dig up a golf course as that would just confirm the generalisation that they are all a bunch of low down dirty excuses for life and a whole big waste of food.

Naos

/awaits the user with the sig along lines of "Ireland had xxx playgrounds in 19xx, Ireland has xxx Golf courses..

GreeBo

Mear wrote:

/awaits the user with the sig along lines of "Ireland had xxx playgrounds in 19xx, Ireland has xxx Golf courses..

yunno I never really got the point of that sig, so what?
There are more golf courses than playgrounds.... there are more of lots of things than other things.
There are more car parks than golf courses, which would you prefer to live next to?

As for people digging up golf courses, stupid scumbags who need to be locked up. Or maybe the members should just go at their caravans with pickaxes and shovels?

Lenny

Its victors I think..
I think he is saying the goverment should do something about building more playgrounds for kids insted of letting people pump money into expensive golf courses?

GreeBo

Lenny wrote:

Its victors I think..
I think he is saying the goverment should do something about building more playgrounds for kids insted of letting people pump money into expensive golf courses?

Hmmm, why should the government stop people building golf courses?
Think about where most golf courses are being built, can you see the kids walking down to Straffan to play soccer?
Most golf courses need a lot of land, nowadays this land is getting further and further out, its not exactly residential areas that have golf courses being built.

ShiverinEskimo

Yep, I'd rather see more playgrounds for kids then fecking golfers taking up acres for the there personal enjoyment.

no blue jeans, i'll give them no ****ing blue jeans. Bastards!!!

Mind you, tourism brings money. Golf brings tourists.

SoupyNorman

Yep, I'd rather see more playgrounds for kids then fecking golfers taking up acres for the there personal enjoyment.

no blue jeans, i'll give them no ****ing blue jeans. Bastards!!!

Mind you, tourism brings money. Golf brings tourists.


sure what did the members do to deserve that....most golf courses are built by private investors,
how about you add up the number of PUBLIC courses and see does it out number the number of playgrounds. not friggin likely i tell ya.

Naos

aye but they take up VAST quants of land.. so think thats his point.

so getting victor in on this biach.

ShiverinEskimo

You build a playground the size of an 18 hole golf course and its called a feckin theme park. Ask anyone if they would rather play golf or go to alton towers. i reckon the golf course would be pretty quiet...

Build more parks.

Anyone ever see the film Falling Down starring Mike Douglas (of course you did). Remember the golfer's?
Thats what i think of when i think of gold clubs and their members. hehe.

GreeBo

Mear wrote:

aye but they take up VAST quants of land.. so think thats his point.

so getting victor in on this biach.

bring his biach ass on over here!
My point (well, one of my many points) is, where are these "VAST quants of land"?
middle of nowhere usually, just ask anyone who has to drive for 1hr+ to go play golf!

Golf courses are well maintained greenland, I really cant see how people can have problems with golf courses...?

ShiverinEskimo

GreeBo wrote:

middle of nowhere usually, just ask anyone who has to drive for 1hr+ to go play golf!

I have 3 golf courses within 10 minute drive. 6 within 30 minutes.
I live in Dundalk - not famed for its golf courses.

GreeBo wrote:

Golf courses are well maintained greenland, I really cant see how people can have problems with golf courses...?

What exactly are Parks if not well maintained greenland?

MisterAnarchy

That vandalism is a disgrace.
I hope the Gardai use rough justice to soften these scurillous knackers.

ShiverinEskimo

Oh, by the way folks. I prefer golfers to knackers any day. God i hate knackers.
Golfers just mildly annoy me. Especially bad golfers. ie. people who do it because it improves their social standing, rather than for the exercise and sport.

The_Conductor

Anyone draw the analogy with how the General (Martin Cahill) dug up the 4th green in the Garda Club in Westmanstown to protest Garda aggrevation (rather embarrassingly for the Gardai while he was under official surveillance).
Maybe some of the scumbags have good memories!

The_Conductor

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Yep, I'd rather see more playgrounds for kids then fecking golfers taking up acres for the there personal enjoyment.

no blue jeans, i'll give them no ****ing blue jeans. Bastards!!!

Mind you, tourism brings money. Golf brings tourists.

Want to know why we have proportionally so many more golfcourses being built than playgrounds? Golfers tend to be a lot less likely to sue you if they slip and fall than the parents of average children.........
We were forced to close a small playground we voluntarily ran off the Clonee Road a few years ago- when our insurance company refused to offer any type of cover whatsoever unless we did so. This was despite the fact that we had a qualified first aider on our staff, and supervised the kids playing.(We used to run the fruit farm just opposite St. Catherines.)

S.

RuggieBear

smccarrick wrote:

Want to know why we have proportionally so many more golfcourses being built than playgrounds? Golfers tend to be a lot less likely to sue you if they slip and fall than the parents of average children.........

I was just about to mention something similar. In britain, councils are closing their playgrounds due to the amount of litigation.

hacktavist

But the important question, how can a load of damaged grass cost €60,000?

MisterAnarchy

But the important question, how can a load of damaged grass cost €60,000

Hmm you obviously dont play golf.
11 of 18 greens were dug up.
The average cost of building a new green is about €60,000
The turf is specialised and costs a fortune.
The problem is the travellers are too well catered for here .
In the US they are ignored not rewarded with free houses and mod cons.

ShiverinEskimo

I thought a claim could only rise out of negligence?
If someone falls down a hole without sufficient warning around it then they can sue.
Surely someone who willingly climbs on a swing that is free from fault is not able to sue if hurt?
If its faulty fair enough.

My god, what is the world coming to. I suppose you can sue for anything these days.

"I went rock climbing and fell, think i'll sue the government for having loose rock on that cliff."

The_Conductor

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

I thought a claim could only rise out of negligence?
If someone falls down a hole without sufficient warning around it then they can sue.
Surely someone who willingly climbs on a swing that is free from fault is not able to sue if hurt?
If its faulty fair enough.

My god, what is the world coming to. I suppose you can sue for anything these days.

"I went rock climbing and fell, think i'll sue the government for having loose rock on that cliff."

More to the point - a claim can only fail if negligence on the part of the proprietor is not-proven. However- the legal proceedings themselves are normally so costly, regardless of the relative merits of the case, and insurance companies for the reason alone, tend to find it economically more viable to settle out of court (without any admission of liability).

There was up until lately no reprecussions from making a fraudulent claim- and given that they were largely met with a cash lumpsum, some people saw it as a personal cashpoint. One individual in Clondalkin achieved notoriety by successfully suing Dublin City Council on more than 50 seperate occasions.

Things are looking up with the recent redress board, but its going to be a long hard fight for the attitudes in this country to change.

S.

ShiverinEskimo

Well that is a lifeline.
If someone makes a claim though and fail. Are they not liable for costs to the other party? Why settle without being liable
(as you can guess, law is not my first choice subject when it comes to quizzes)

Victor

The point of my sig is that we spend vast sums of money on entertainment for adults, but not enough for children. There is a gang of local kids (about 8-14) at work that just cause nuisance (harassing shop staff, fireworks, running through traffic ....). Now I realise a playground or a mini-pitch won't keep them busy 24x7, but it would be a start.

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

I thought a claim could only rise out of negligence? If someone falls down a hole without sufficient warning around it then they can sue. Surely someone who willingly climbs on a swing that is free from fault is not able to sue if hurt?

As a judge put it recently, 'falling down is part of growing up'. Now, current playground design is for using rubber matting around play equipment (bark chippings can also be used, but is less hygenic, especially with younger kids). Some older playgrounds had concrete under swings, see-saws and roundabouts.....

seamus

Problem being that whatever Pavee Point's intention, there is a non-minority part of the travelling community with no respect for the settled community or the laws of this country. They think this country owes them, and they're free to do whatever they like because they're "special".

On top of that, a lot of the younger travellers socialise with the dregs of Finglas society, the dirtiest scumbags, who would happily act like this thinking that they're doing the travellers a favour.

Damaging golf courses, illegal dumping, joyriding, assault and criminal damage against people who drive down Dunsink lane does little to increase the credibility of Pavee Point, and is only going to force the State to come down harder on them. They're their own worst enemies.

Victor

Dublin City Council has 6 golf and pitch & putt course and 25 playgrounds. There are a further 4-5 private golf clubs in the city and I think the OPW have a pitch & putt course in the Phoenix Park. I suspect the land given between the two is a little unbalanced.

http://www.dublincity.ie/parks/search.asp?msg=1

GreeBo

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

I have 3 golf courses within 10 minute drive. 6 within 30 minutes.
I live in Dundalk - not famed for its golf courses.



What exactly are Parks if not well maintained greenland?

How new are these Golf Courses?
Is it likely that a play ground at these locations would be frequented by young (pre-teen) children?


Surely no one is suggesting that we remove existing (private!) golf courses to open play grounds???

You cannot even try to compare a golf course with a park on a maintenance basis!

GreeBo

Victor wrote:

The point of my sig is that we spend vast sums of money on entertainment for adults, but not enough for children. There is a gang of local kids (about 8-14) at work that just cause nuisance (harassing shop staff, fireworks, running through traffic ....). Now I realise a playground or a mini-pitch won't keep them busy 24x7, but it would be a start.

Who is the "we" you are talking about?
So you think people should not use private or public courses until we have enough play grounds?
Why not say the same for cinemas, bowling alleys, arcades?

GreeBo

Victor wrote:

Dublin City Council has 6 golf and pitch & putt course and 25 playgrounds. There are a further 4-5 private golf clubs in the city and I think the OPW have a pitch & putt course in the Phoenix Park. I suspect the land given between the two is a little unbalanced.

http://www.dublincity.ie/parks/search.asp?msg=1

If you mean the amount of land, then obviously a course is going to be bigger than a playground.
As I said earlier, most new golf courses are built in places where a playground would make no sense. If the space is near a residential area and big enough for a golf course, chances are it already has the JCB's in there!

Whats the beef with private courses? Why single out golf courses?
I just dont get your point I guess...

Oh, and doesnt your example just disprove your argument???

ShiverinEskimo

GreeBo wrote:

How new are these Golf Courses?
Is it likely that a play ground at these locations would be frequented by young (pre-teen) children?

Some around ages, some not so long. youngest maybe is 5 and the oldest is, well, very old.

What about their age? (I don't mean that in a bad way)

Also I never said golf courses should be converted and i don't think it matters where the existing golf courses are. My point is expenditure. how much urban/suburban land can be bought (if not already owned by the council) and developed into playgrounds for the cost of building one golf course. Obviously I don't know the answer, but i can have a good guess that you'd get more playgrounds.

ShiverinEskimo

GreeBo wrote:

Why single out golf courses?

Cos they be ****in HUUGE!!

Hard to find a bigger single use of land other than agricultural.

MadsL

Elm Green was a public course (still is, but won't be playable for a while) so Victors sig point is moot on this (kids play golf here too)

Well peed off about this, it was a smashing little course for the money. The travelllers did themselves no favours here.

GreeBo

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Some around ages, some not so long. youngest maybe is 5 and the oldest is, well, very old.

so its not like new land that could be converted into a playground is being bought up by golf courses?

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

What about their age? (I don't mean that in a bad way)

just that the golf courses that are being built (i.e. new ones) are usually not in a place where young kids are going to be able to access easily.
(a 5 year old popping off to play in the K Club)

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Also I never said golf courses should be converted and i don't think it matters where the existing golf courses are. My point is expenditure. how much urban/suburban land can be bought (if not already owned by the council) and developed into playgrounds for the cost of building one golf course. Obviously I don't know the answer, but i can have a good guess that you'd get more playgrounds.

How many public courses are there that the council own?
Most courses are privately owned, Im pretty sure you wont get many private people offering to spend money on building a playground if they dont have a way of recouping their cash, unless you are saying people should be more generous..... :eek:
My argument is that there is not much spent on public golf courses compared to playgrounds AND these courses earn money to help pay for themselves, unlike playgrounds.

GreeBo

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Cos they be ****in HUUGE!!

Hard to find a bigger single use of land other than agricultural.

and they be private!
Anyone can play on the public ones so whats the difference between that and a playground?

MadsL

how much urban/suburban land can be bought (if not already owned by the council) and developed into playgrounds for the cost of building one golf course.

Dublin city council/Finglas council don't build golf courses, they just maintain the ones they own (cue Carlsburg pun) - these I would suspect are self-financing through the green fees paid by players. Public course play an absolutely crucial role in golf - beginners, juniors, unemployed, retired etc. Or would you suggest that the only golf in Dublin should be Powerscourt at €80 a round.

I imagine that you would get a huge chunk of cash for the various GAA pitches around the country - trust me the GAA get quite a bit more public cash than the few bob put into public golf courses!!!

I would resist the pressure to build on every damn bit of green space in Dublin, in fact, they have recently sold off a chunk of Stepaside GC (and ruined the course imho) - Stepaside is turning into concrete hell - is there anywhere up there they are not building?? These public spaces do provide at least plenty of grass and trees for everyone...after all you can always walk the course if you have a bit of sense about where the balls are coming from..

narommy

Did anybody notice that they spelt road wrong.

The picture shown had road spelt raod

GreeBo

MadsL wrote:

I would resist the pressure to build on every damn bit of green space in Dublin, in fact, they have recently sold off a chunk of Stepaside GC (and ruined the course imho) - Stepaside is turning into concrete hell - is there anywhere up there they are not building??

I cant imagine the pain of having bought one of the first houses/apartments up there to "get out of the city" and all of a sudden, WHACK, they build the damn city all over that view you had of the mountain.

ShiverinEskimo

GreeBo wrote:

and they be private!
Anyone can play on the public ones so whats the difference between that and a playground?

Blue Jeans, an (expensive) set of golf clubs, and potential fatal injury from flying golfballs.
Also get me 100 kids and ask them all would you rather go play in a playground with swings etc. or play golf.
You have to agree that a playground caters for a lot more. Golfing is a select sport and difficult to get into. You can go to the playground for an hour or you can go play golf for a day.
I generally feel also that golf clubs will do anything to become and stay exclusive. Which includes membership 'selection'.
Here's an idea, playground, and pitch and putt side by side. Fun for all the family, (but no blue jeans allowed )

LegacyUser

I woulda thought it would be some form of neglect to raise a kid in a caravan on the side of the road, all the kids should be taken off these people, given a good wash and some elocution lessons, problem sorted in a generation

MadsL

Golfing is a select sport and difficult to get into.

In a word. Bollox.

Try talking out of some other orifice.

Slunk

Yeah I noticed the thick knackers spelt road wrong.But it just goes to show they can do what they like.You know the saying " Pikey Pikey do what we likey".Anything doesnt go well for them its discrimination.Another perfect example is the pubs.if they get refused they bring the pub to court on discrimination charges.If I was refused there'd be sweet FA I could do about it.

ShiverinEskimo

MadsL wrote:

In a word. Bollox.

Try talking out of some other orifice.

Aye, real valid argument you made there. God I was proved wrong wasn't I? :rolleyes:

Its expensive which in context of the conversation (RE: KIDS) doesn't make it as easy to get into as hmm, i dunno, football.
How much for the cheapest set of clubs, bag, balls, shoes, and then membership or public GC green fees.
If was so damn easy to pick up and play you reckon there'd be more kids playing it no?

Obviously a golf fan. If you have a point make it, otherwise save your insults for someone who gives a ****.

seamus

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

If was so damn easy to pick up and play you reckon there'd be more kids playing it no?

How easy it is to pick up and play has nothing to do with its popularity. Let's examine shall we?

Golf: Slow-moving game. Consists of attempting to use skill to hit and ball within a certain range, and then a short stroll to the ball to hit it again. Can easily be played when slightly tired.

Soccer: Fast-moving game. Involves running about constantly over a relatively small area and attempting to use skills to hold onto the ball and score a goal. Exacerbates any tiredness very quickly.

Golf: Played on a predetermined field, usually well outside of urban areas, requiring a certain amount of time to be set aside to play the game.

Soccer: Played anywhere. Streets, fields, hallways and bedrooms can all become footbal pitches at the drop of a hat.

Golf: Minimum cost of a set of clubs: €50. Out of reach of anyone under 16.

Soccer: Minimum cost: €5 for a crap football. €0 if the child improvises.

It's not that golf isn't easy to get into, quite the opposite in fact. It's that it doesn't suit kids. They get bored easily, they get frustrated easily. Golf is a game for adults. But it's not for the elite. Not by a longshot.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

"improvises"?

pickarooney

You have to include green fees/membership in any discussion about the relative elitism of football and golf, not to mention the dress codes and cronyism that are part and parcel of the game.
I used to play as a kid because my Da was a member of a local club, but I doubt very much if I would have had he not been.

MadsL

I learnt to play with a hand me down set of clubs I was given, in my runners, in a club that charged me a tenner for a whole years play. Balls I went looking for and found. When I didn't have chance to get to the course I practiced in a field.

Remind me again how much the latest replica Man Utd strip is....??
and how much are those Nike soccer boots....??

And I noticed that you completely ignored my point about how much public money is literally poured into GAA each year.

pickarooney

MadsL wrote:

I learnt to play with a hand me down set of clubs I was given, in my runners, in a club that charged me a tenner for a whole years play. Balls I went looking for and found. When I didn't have chance to get to the course I practiced in a field.

Remind me again how much the latest replica Man Utd strip is....??
and how much are those Nike soccer boots....??

And I noticed that you completely ignored my point about how much public money is literally poured into GAA each year.

If you were talking to me, sorry, I have no notion about how much monet is spent on GAA, I just caught the tail end of the jumpers for goalposts/hearthrugs for greens bit.

MadsL

Oh and a few facts about Golf and Ireland;

there are now approximately 220,000 golf-related visitors to Ireland each year. It is estimated that these visitors contribute approximately €144 million in 2000 to the Irish economy.

http://www.business2000.ie/cases/cases_6th/case2.htm

Tourism supported 145,000 full-time job equivalents in 2000 or 8.7% of the total number of employed people in Ireland that year.

http://www.oireachtas-debates.gov.ie/plweb-cgi/fastweb?state_id=1097706848&amp;view=oho-view&amp;docrank=13&amp;numhitsfound=863&amp;query=golf +employment&amp;query_rule=(($query1)<=DATE<=($query2)) AND (($query4)):SPEAKER AND (($query5)):heading AND (($query6)):CATEGORY AND (($query3)):house AND (($query7)):volume AND (($query8)):colnumber AND (($query))&amp;docid=425373&amp;docdb=Debates&amp;dbname=Debates&amp;sorting=none&amp;operator=and&amp;TemplateName=predoc.tmpl&amp;setCookie=1

Victor

MadsL wrote:

And I noticed that you completely ignored my point about how much public money is literally poured into GAA each year.

You are turning this into golf -v- other sports. My point is kids aren't given facilities to keep them occupied and end up in trouble.

GreeBo

Victor wrote:

You are turning this into golf -v- other sports. My point is kids aren't given facilities to keep them occupied and end up in trouble.

To be fair, you turned it into Golf -v- other sports when you made your sig and picked on golf.

GreeBo

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Blue Jeans, an (expensive) set of golf clubs, and potential fatal injury from flying golfballs.

versus latest Soccer Jersey, expensive boots and potential fatal injury from falling off the climbing frame?

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

Also get me 100 kids and ask them all would you rather go play in a playground with swings etc. or play golf.

I could find 100 kids who would all prefer to play golf, stand outside Marley Par3 and tell me is it adults or kids playing all summer?

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

You have to agree that a playground caters for a lot more. Golfing is a select sport and difficult to get into. You can go to the playground for an hour or you can go play golf for a day.

You can go play golf for exactly as long as you want to, if you get bored, just stop!
Golfing is as much a select sport as anything else is, you can go to a field and hit golf balls (albeit illegally!, though so are most "Ball Games") just as easily as you can play soccer.
You can play golf by yourself.

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

I generally feel also that golf clubs will do anything to become and stay exclusive. Which includes membership 'selection'.

Your point being? What on earth does a private club's (of ANY sport) membership policy have to do with the council spending money on Public Courses versus playgrounds?
And when you say "exclusive" what do you mean, that they wont let just anyone and everyone join?

GreeBo

ShiverinEskimo wrote:

and then membership or public GC green fees.

Again with the Private Clubs! the only valid argument here is Public Courses -v- Public Playgrounds
its apples and oranges to bring Private Clubs into the equation.