Want to vote to get rid of VRT??

ambro25

Suit yourself - Signed: some bloke who's french, has lived in the UK for the last few years and posts on Boards.ie

BTW... you gonna vote or keep picking my hair over nothing? (just 'thought it'd be a good idea to get back on track, here).

impr0v

Did hear the words 'VRT', 'eight', and 'billion' on the news this evening? it was one of those quick bulletins on TodayFM and only registered after I had heard it. Does anyone know if this figure refers to a single year?

mike65

With the budget now only days away this sticky has been unstuck. Somehow I don't think Cowen or indeed any finance minister is going to make changes. They just know the motorist will keep buying car regardless.

Mike.

impr0v

980 odd million made from VRT in 2003 according to today's Tribune. They speculate about a 1% change being possible in the taxation rate, but also say that the 1% translates to approx 600 euro on a 40k car

Victor

impr0v wrote:

but also say that the 1% translates to approx 600 euro on a 40k car

1% x €40,000 = €400! Stupid journo.

ambro25

Victor wrote:

1% x €40,000 = €400! Stupid journo.

That's €400 before 50% taxation, which makes it €600...

impr0v

VAT is added on after VRT afaik, which brings it closer to 600.

ambro25

It's dis-gus-ting. No ifs, buts or whats. VAT is a tax - whay can't they leave it at that, like most other European countries?

I know how much it's netting them but does Ireland really need all that cash to run, with all the other taxes levied? There's only 3 millions people for f***'s sake :mad: It's not as if there's an indigeneous car industry to protect, is there?

Victor

ambro25 wrote:

I know how much it's netting them but does Ireland really need all that cash to run, with all the other taxes levied??

Apparently, they borrowed money last year to balance the books, have done so again this year and will next year. The money has to come from somewhere.

ambro25 wrote:

There's only 3 millions people for f***'s sake :mad:

Well www.cso.ie says 4 million.

ambro25 wrote:

It's not as if there's an indigeneous car industry to protect, is there?

So. Its a tax on imports, which improves the balance of trade. It means the car industry gets to pay the rest of the country in exchange for the problems it causes.

Boggle

Apparently, they borrowed money last year to balance the books, have done soa gian this year and will next year. The moeny has to come from somewhere.

So whats ur point? Do you reckon the average motorist has to pay for all the countries problems?

Seth Brundle

Boggle wrote:

So whats ur point? Do you reckon the average motorist has to pay for all the countries problems?

No, but the government do and they are able to do it because the motoring lobby is non existent in Ireland!

Stephen

Jesus Christ Victor, never have i seen anyone so anal retentive as you.

Victor

Stephen wrote:

Jesus Christ Victor, never have i seen anyone so anal retentive as you.

You should try Azezil, he loves his anal.

ambro25

You know... I would love (and maybe even pay) to know:

1) if Victor drives
2) how long has Victor been driving
2) what Victor drives
3) how many miles a year Victor drives
4) if Victor has points on his/her license

Just to be satisifed in my mind that Victor (Meldrew? ) is 'qualified' (by experience, we understand one another) to be dispensing so many lessons on the topic of motoring

Stephen

As far as I know, he's a cyclist with a massive chip on his shoulder about motorists.

ambro25

Lol

Seth Brundle

Stephen wrote:

As far as I know, he's a cyclist with a massive chip on his shoulder about motorists.

still - I don't think this renders his opinion invalid!

Corben Dallas

Yeah come clean Victor are u a militant Cyclist?

as i said VRT should be abolished Tommorrow without any replacement.

"...pay for all the problems that irish Cars cause." 980million every year from VRT jebus wept. :mad: The Irish Motorist is roylally been milked by the Irish Govn. and it needs to stop.
I sure that 980million a year had been paying for a lot of Hospitals , their Gravy Train Health boards, or i wonder does this cover paying for the Guards, Emeregency Services all road building programmes and all Public Transport on a yearly basis.

Sometimes i think a group of recently released morans could run the country, because Taxation in Ireland is so highly geared on everything.

Seth Brundle

I actually believe that they should amend other motoring taxes before this one. Principally, the annual road tax system should be overhauled using a more fair consumption tax.
At least with VRT people have a choice as to whether they are willing to pay for a new car with its high taxes. With road tax they don't have any choice. (I still think VRT is an unfair tax!).
However, were the government to remove the VRT system then this would leave a hige hole in the annual tax take. To fill this the govt would have to increase income tax (someone mentioned 4%) or alternatively increase corporation tax. I reckon either move would make Ireland less competitive globally and would end in a loss of jobs bringing us back to the crappy old situation where most people couldn't afford new cars!

Victor

ambro25 wrote:

You know... I would love (and maybe even pay) to know:

OK, money to the Santa Strike Force. How much?

ambro25

all my affection, and there's lots to be had if you're female, 6ft, blonde with all the correct bits in the right dimensions and places .

...but you're not, are you?

Boggle

However, were the government to remove the VRT system then this would leave a hige hole in the annual tax take. To fill this the govt would have to increase income tax (someone mentioned 4%) or alternatively increase corporation tax. I reckon either move would make Ireland less competitive globally

Again, I have to say so what? Why are motorists expected to pay for every problem the country has?

If the taxes collected by means of PAYE are insufficient then you know what needs to be done. I have no problem paying my taxes in a case where it is fair but I do resent being screwed just because I might want to own a new car...

That bit about raising the corp tax is wrong though. They never HAVE to do anything...

Victor

Boggle wrote:

Again, I have to say so what? Why are motorists expected to pay for every problem the country has?

Corben Dallas wrote:

980million every year from VRT

The government is spending €45,000 million in 2005.

ambro25

Victor wrote:

The government is spending €45,000 million in 2005.

Ha! My turn to play anal-rententive: source? and on what, (reasonably) precisely? It sure ain't on the roads - and unless they're f***ing hopeless at negotiating anything, it sure ain't on Luas either...so?

EUR 45 bn for a 4m country? F***ing hell ! :eek: They must live well, 'round here

Victor

ambro25 wrote:

Ha! My turn to play anal-rententive: source?

€43,577,738,000 if they manage to spend it all.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=2711&CatID=13&StartDate=1+January+2004&m=f

Page 7 http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/public%20expenditure/aevspcp2005.pdf (large file)

Borzoi

Victor wrote:

€43,577,738,000 if they manage to spend it all.

http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=2711&CatID=13&StartDate=1+January+2004&m=f

Page 7 http://www.finance.gov.ie/documents/public%20expenditure/aevspcp2005.pdf (large file)

On which there will be a quiz later.....................

ambro25

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You guys are properly unbelievable

Boggle

The government is spending €45,000 million in 2005.

What part of...

Again, I have to say so what? Why are motorists expected to pay for every problem the country has?

If the taxes collected by means of PAYE are insufficient then you know what needs to be done. I have no problem paying my taxes in a case where it is fair but I do resent being screwed just because I might want to own a new car...

.. do you not get?

There is an excessive taxation on cars. Plain and simple. Fair enough the country needs a large sum of money to pay the politicians each year but that should come from general taxation (PAYE) so that we all pay our fair share. I dont believe you should be unfairly burdened with excessive taxation just for the privilege of buying a new car.

impr0v

It's naiive to think that all the population is as forgiving as you. You forget the fact that taxing the car buying public is effectively taxing the adult working population, with some weighing to ensure that those who can best afford it, pay more. If the government raise the rate of income tax they suffer politically and those without cars suffer in their quality of life, especially those in the lower income brackets, i.e. those that don't even know how much a new car costs. You might still vote for them, as you're happy for the moment with your new car, but that's only temporary.

As has been explained a number of times VRT is in the system already, only those buying their first car and upgrading a large number of rungs on the automobile ladder suffer substantially from it. It's a fallacy to believe that if VRT is removed the country will become some sort of motoring nirvana where everyone can get that DB9 that they so desperately want, English motorists are driving broadly the same cars as us, if the relative strengths of the economy are taken into account. If VRT was abolished in the morning the car manufacturers, used to operating in the current environment would absorb about 10% of the decrease straight away. You and you fellow lobbyists then go out and buy that car that's just frustratingly out of your reach now and it's happy days. Then the next time you go to upgrade, you're back in the same situation. The overall prices are lowever, but the gap between your resale value and the new car price are very similar.

You could also stake your house on the fact that the budget that removes VRT will place a hefty amount on petrol prices, to tie in with the theoretical notion that the motorist pays tax to look after the motorist. And take some looking after they do, between infrastructure costs, pollution, the medical cost of carnage, enforcement, administration of all the above, etc. You'll no doubt argue that none of the above are of sufficient quality in this country, but that certainly dosen't mean they don't cost a lot.

In short, it's much easier for the govenment to leave it in place, and it's much of a muchness to the taxpaying population whether it's in or out.

Boggle

So what your saying is that the purchase of a new car is for society's elite only and that, as they can afford it, they should pay a tax lump sum everytime they buy a car - just for the good of society...

abolished in the morning the car manufacturers, used to operating in the current environment would absorb about 10% of the decrease straight away.

I thought that the base price of cars all across the EU had to be the same...?


If these taxes go into the general exchequer and are not specifically set aside for roads then yes they should be in the form of extra taxes... Maybe not nice to hear but that's how it should be. (Of course the could just cut expenditure/ politicians wages etc...)

In short, it's much easier for the govenment to leave it in place, and it's much of a muchness to the taxpaying population whether it's in or out.

Actually it's quite a big deal if you happen to want a new car.