What think ye of the SU?

Syth

What do you think of the SU?

{{edit: Umm.. turns out I wasn't aware of certain events and some of this post is umm.. wrong.}}

I think they are hypocirtis and a bit silly. Why hypocrits? Remember coke? That evil empire which we must get rid of? Remember the carrers fair this week? UCD was giving an honourary scholarship to a former CEO of coke in the o'reilly hall. The carrers fair had to rescheduled so they could honour the coke CEO. As a result of that some companies couldn't come to the new carrers fair. Some students had less carrer information due to a coke CEO. What did the SU do? Did they protest? Did they block the entrance to the o'reilly hall like they did with the education minister when he mentioned about bringing back fees 2 years ago? They did sweet **** all. Nada. Nothing. Hypocirits.

AngelofFire

eh, are you blind or something, we were over there the other day but the man never showed up.

http://www.ucdsu.net/newswire.php

Support what you are posting with evidence instead of just coming up with ignorant crap.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Syth how do you get away with writing **** in your posts

Syth

Well I feel like an idiot. I didn't know there was any protest. It really should have been advertised, I never saw any signs or posters. Normally there are loads of posters and signes up whenever there is anything interesting going on. I had no way of knowing any protest was on. Most of the articles in the newswire thinge only opposed it on their opposotion to coke, nothing about student's job prospects. To many students getting a job is very important, so the fact that it was rescheduled to suit someone (whether they were a CEO coke or a nobel prizewinner) is a disgrace in itself. Was that the focus of the protest, or was it the fact that a coke man was there? Why was no-one in or near the oreilly hall on carrers fair day telling people that it had to be resheduled?

I still think the SU is hypocritical because they only think free speech applies to them, not everyone. As well as their silliness on protesting. They are so confrontational. Conflict should be avoided if possible. If you can get what you want with a petition or letter or meeting then that's what you should do. You shouldn't march in with a loudspeaker on day one. However that's what the union has been doing. I don't feel like the union is representing me. Do many feel represented by the union? Support them? Oppose them? Don't know about it?

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

Syth how do you get away with writing **** in your posts

I'm so damn cool.

m1ke

I think the SU are doing a very good job. Yes they have made mistakes but they pro-actively pursue their objectives. Whether they be ideological or practical. Which is really a move away from the current student mindset that sits on the side-lines and points out the flaws and hypocrisies without ever accomplishing anything.

Gileadi

doesnt really bother me what they do once they are there to gimme some support if the collage throws crap at me really which is pretty much their main reason for being there as i understand it

the political action is secondary and doesnt really impact on any of our daily lives

AngelofFire

still think the SU is hypocritical because they only think free speech applies to them,

When did the union ever try to suppress the freedom of speech of others? examples?

As well as their silliness on protesting

We dont protest for the sake of it, we do so for a good reason. The Gov think students are a soft touch, therefore they arrogantly slash our funding in order to maintain the massive tax concessions for the boys up in fairyhouse.

OfflerCrocGod

We have an SU?


:eek:

Syth

AngelofFire wrote:

When did the union ever try to suppress the freedom of speech of others? examples?

The union newswire thinge has a specific policy against letting fascists post articles. I'm not a fascists and would hat to live in a fascist society/country, but I'm a strong supporter of free speech. I think one should be allowed to express oneself in almost anyway on wants to. I don't want this to turn into a flame war on the mertits of said policy, but one must admit that the union has different policies on what it will carry depending on what you are saying or what you believe in. I think that is hypocritical and bad for society. One of the reasons why I don't use the union newswire thinge.

AngelofFire wrote:

We dont protest for the sake of it, we do so for a good reason.

Sometimes there is a need for protest. Sometimes you don't have to protest. One should always try other less confrontational means of conflict resolution first.

uberwolf

SU does support free speech, except for Aidan O' Regan who apparently said at the Barret debate - "I believe in free speech, but... [that man should not be allowed]" wonderful stuff, but he is last years news.

The Uni Observer is an SU publicatiom with free speech written into the constitution.

As for the coke guy he was conferred in Carysfort believe it or not... to dangerous in light of the barret incident.

edit: not so much free speech as editorial independence. Which in teh context is the same thing, the union doesn't control the content of the paper, the contributors do.

RE*AC*TOR

In all my time in ucd (6 years now), I've never been impressed by anythign done by the SU. My endurign memories of them are infighting and blunders. This arises from potential SU officers wanting the post for their CV rather than wanting to accomplih anything for the student body. I recognise their presence is required for backing up student rights should they / we be become opressed, their remit has grown to large though.

AngelofFire

The union newswire thinge has a specific policy against letting fascists post articles. I'm not a fascists and would hat to live in a fascist society/country, but I'm a strong supporter of free speech

We have a thing in this country called the incitement of hatred act, the reason why facists aren`t allowed organise is because they advocate violence against minorities, giving them a platform in the observer would be endangering foreign students in our university. Free speech is important in a democratic society and should not be tampered with lightly, but a line has to be drawn somewhere particularily if that free speech is letrent to advocating violence against another human being. If we allowed complete free speech with no strings attached then paedophiles would be able to write articles in newspapers about raping children.

Sometimes there is a need for protest. Sometimes you don't have to protest. One should always try other less confrontational means of conflict resolution first.

Since when is peaceful protest too ''confrontational'', on your logic the civil rights movements in america and northern ireland would have been ''confrontational'' :rolleyes:

uberwolf

AngelofFire wrote:

We have a thing in this country called the incitement of hatred act, the reason why facists aren`t allowed organise is because they advocate violence against minorities, giving them a platform in the observer would be endangering foreign students in our university. Free speech is important in a democratic society and should not be tampered with lightly, but a line has to be drawn somewhere particularily if that free speech is letrent to advocating violence against another human being. If we allowed complete free speech with no strings attached then paedophiles would be able to write articles in newspapers about raping children.

freedom of speech means you can say you want. But you have to be willing to accept the responsibility for the repercussions of saying them.

However print is different, the editorial team would be responsible for preventing inciteful stuff going in, i.e preemptive. So free speech doesn't apply at all to the observer, but editorial independence does. So the union allows the observer print what it wants within legal bounds and can have no complaint (theoretically ). If you follow.

OfflerCrocGod

You see, I believe in freedom, Mr Lipwig. not many people do, although they will of course protest otherwise. And no practical definition of freedom would be complete without the freedom to take the consequences. Indeed, it is the freedom upon which all the others are based. -- Terry Pratchett, Going Postal.

My ( and it seems uberwolf's - if I'm wrong fell free to correct me! ) thoughts exactly. Free speech, yes but free speech with consequences.

Red Alert

The SU are out of touch with the main student body. Their ents office in particular needs to move away from the Beers & Guitars philosophy it currently employs, more and more people have more diverse music tastes and the SU ents in the bar seems only to play host to the same old stuff again and again. Thank god Jazzsoc etc. exist.

Syth

We have a thing in this country called the incitement of hatred act ... {{snip}} ... advocating violence against another human being.

I don't want to get into a flame war here on this, but I think there should be freee speech for all including fascists and peadophiles (descriptions of child rape should be banned for obsenity reasons), so ad far as I'm concered the SU doesn't support free speech. You're definition is probably different.

Red Alert wrote:

Their ents office in particular needs to move away from the Beers & Guitars philosoph

Agreed. Not all of us rate a night good night in the number of times you vomitited.

AngelofFire

I don't want to get into a flame war here on this, but I think there should be freee speech for all including fascists and peadophiles (descriptions of child rape should be banned for obsenity reasons), so ad far as I'm concered the SU doesn't support free speech. You're definition is probably different.

What if paedos were writing articles in the newspaper condoning and encouraging child rape?, or if racists were writing articles encouraging people to go out and beat 7 shades of sh1te out of the next black person they see

Alana

Who is the SU president this year? What the hell does he look like? At least with last years lot, they were constantly around Dillion seemed to be everywhere, maybe its just my opinion but he did canvas a good deal of campaigns before lectures and himself and the vice president attended a fair few debates too..actully i seem to remember him attacking (verbally) a TD at a debate last year....
Anyway i'm rambling, at least last years guys did something, when they had a coke demonstration you knew it was coming.

Last week,thursday i think, i was walking by the O'Reily Hall on my way to get a bus and there was like a gathering of 12 people sitting on the steps of the o'reily hall...?whats that supposed to do...?how big is the ucd student body...?what does that say about the student body...? ok granted i only passed by and i didnt stay fo the duration of the protest but going on what iv heard hardly anyone seems to have known anything about it..

As for the whole freedom of speech thing if you want to express yourself in print there is another paper in ucd...the tribune...? however i dont think they'd b v happy to c anything about paedophiles in there newspapr eithr...but if u want to get ur pt across to the masses about the SU there is another way....

I just think the SU need to get in touch with the peeps get a feel for whats on the ground, their hearts probably in the right place..but would a few bob spent on foto copying some sheets last wk and mayb canvassing bit more in lectures and that, would those things av broken the bank or taken up to much of their precious time....?

Red Alert

Glad to see someone thinks along the same lines - I was at the Almos Funk Band gig in the forum on thursday - an example of how it should be done. Thursday Night Live is a great idea, but it should maybe be changed to fortnightly or even every 3-weeks and then really go for it with bigger bands etc.

The SU present this year is old man scully - haven't seen him all year!

Chinafoot

Red Alert wrote:

The SU present this year is old man scully - haven't seen him all year!

think i've seen him once.

personally i know absolutely nothing about the SU or those involved. i would recognise yer man scully but thats about it.
i never knew about any protest either and it was the same with all of my mates.

that, however, seems to be typical of UCD though. for example, i was sittign in History last week and this girl came in at the start of the lecture and reeled off some speech about voting for her as class rep that day. we never saw anybody else though! how are we supposed to make educated decisions when we are rarely given the necessary information???
and then they moan about poor turnouts when it comes to the vote!

Syth

peachypants wrote:

i was sittign in History last week and this girl came in at the start of the lecture and reeled off some speech about voting for her as class rep that day. we never saw anybody else though! how are we supposed to make educated decisions when we are rarely given the necessary information???

I'm in science and I don't think there was any election at all.

rainbow kirby

Believe it or not, every class rep position in science was unopposed....

Red Alert

Grand total of useful decisions taken by the su = SFA

(where SFA = sweet **** all)

jellymonster

I think they should concentrate more on doing stuff for the students instead of concentrating most of their efforts on protests about the war etc... i do believe in fighting for all that as well but a students union should be more about that. They could start with the lack of any type of spirit or craic around campus this year.

Red Alert

indeed, this crowd are letting the place go to pot while they're protesting about whatever in town.

Waestrel

The students union is a joke. Why exactly is there an "ents officer"? When tthere are students unable to partake in this funderful college experience, because they dont have the money for books, accomadation etc, we have not only a flimsy excuse to piss money up against a wall, but a whole office of the union devoted to just such a cause.

When the union gets
Fees,
Price of living on campus
Price of books on campus
Accomadation and its associated ripoffs
The presence of alleged "missed words winner Rosanna something" on campus

then you can devote a office to the frivolous pursuit of inebriation. Until then, it is an exercise in decadence.

But, in retrospect, I remember that 50,000 euro was wasted on my freshers ball. It would have been mush better spent building a large drain on campus and then throwing whatever is left down it.

Syth

But, in retrospect, I remember that 50,000 euro was wasted on my freshers ball

Did they lose money this year? When I was in first year (oh so long ago... 3rd yr now BTW) theb Freshers Ball lose €70,000. Last year it actually made €15,000! Don't really know about this year. Wouldn't suprise me.

The student's union must have a freshers ball. It's in the consititution. As was once said "20 people upsairs in the forum bar would do..."

Chinafoot

Waestrel wrote:

The students union is a joke. Why exactly is there an "ents officer"? When tthere are students unable to partake in this funderful college experience, because they dont have the money for books, accomadation etc, we have not only a flimsy excuse to piss money up against a wall, but a whole office of the union devoted to just such a cause.

well i wouldnt really agree with this. as somebody already pointed out, there is no craic on campus this year so surely there should be somebody to get the fun going.
whether Cashman manages this or not remains to be seen.

Waestrel

Syth wrote:

Did they lose money this year? When I was in first year (oh so long ago... 3rd yr now BTW) theb Freshers Ball lose €70,000. Last year it actually made €15,000! Don't really know about this year. Wouldn't suprise me.

The student's union must have a freshers ball. It's in the consititution. As was once said "20 people upsairs in the forum bar would do..."

that is the same freshers ball I am referring to.

Well, in that case, the constitution sucks. Change it I suggest, although that would probably need some kind of referendum, which goes against the current college culture of .

Yeah

Syth

Waestrel wrote:

that is the same freshers ball I am referring to.

Well, in that case, the constitution sucks. Change it I suggest, although that would probably need some kind of referendum, which goes against the current college culture of .

Yeah

A referendum? God we never have them... :rolleyes:

As for whether or not there should be an ents officer, I think people and societies are well able to organise events.

uberwolf

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

My ( and it seems uberwolf's - if I'm wrong fell free to correct me! ) thoughts exactly. Free speech, yes but free speech with consequences.

Just to clarify I meant legal repercussions.

alana wrote:

As for the whole freedom of speech thing if you want to express yourself in print there is another paper in ucd...the /snip*/...? however i dont think they'd b v happy to c anything about paedophiles in there newspapr eithr...but if u want to get ur pt across to the masses about the SU there is another way....

If you have something to contribute PM me, be it a letter, article etc. It is not a closed shop. Letters are especially likely to be published. Include your full details with the PM so I can corroborate who you are. This is for the Observer btw.

Alana

plug plug plug...

uberwolf

you complain you can't air your views, I say you can and how to do it and I'm plugging?!? FFS. You'd have prefered it if I'd said F off I guess, that way you could have retained your views. Apologies.

Offer stands though. For what it's worth.

Alana

Hold on mate, one whats with the agro...? I just found it somewhat..interesting...and selective... that in your post that when you quoted me you cut out the name of the name of the other news paper that i mentioned...that being the Tribune of course...dont take things so seriously....

I'm all for freedom of speech.

But i hardly think that your paper would be likely to publish something extremely anti-SU would it...?maybe im wrong, and feel free to correct me, i was just giving people another option...

uberwolf

the /snip*/ was an inhouse joke. The paper isn't pro SU and genuinely tries to be balanced. If they F up we're all over it. The SU msg boards have alter egos of the current SU exec bitching about us being anti union. Last years editor and SU pres weren't on speaking terms. I know you were trying to give people another option - but it was based on the presumption that the regular and larger paper [/plug] on campus wasn't interested. That really isn't the case I can promise.

As I say PM me a letter or email universityDOTobserver AT ucdDOTie with a comment on some pertinent matter or some observation and see. If you pop into the office and ask if you can help out you will not be turned away.

Alana

Or otherwise contact the smaller newspaper-smaller but equally important and informative...with excellent music reviews


so tribune at campus .ie (all small case,all together, or call into the office near the trap in the arts LGs) mhe, alright il plug the lads too..call it a civic duty...

give people freedom of speech and freedom of choice



wait Dillion didnt talk to your editor last year...?madness