32-county Irish state - when?

Stabshauptmann

With stability NI could pay its own way just as much as the RoI can, economics proves how it is easier for smaller geographical areas to turn their economies round faster than larger ones.

definitly it wouldnt happen in a generation. Ppl need to built trust, it would take a long time, in fact interest might be totally lost by the time the time is right...

jesus_thats_gre

Hopefully never. The majority of the people are totally different and it would cost us way to much..

qwertyphobia

I think the more interesting question is Why?

Gurgle

Assuming the north has an established accepted parliament and the IRA, UVF etc are disbanded (or at least relegated to historical societies) by 2010, then a generation or so later (say 30 years) re-union is likely to appear on the cards. That would make it 2040 or so, maybe earlier if the EU continues to grow in relevance at a local level.

pickarooney

Fingal for the All-Ireland!

spanner

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Hopefully never. The majority of the people are totally different and it would cost us way to much..

that is what most people in the south and a porportion of nationlists in the north will say, that reunification will cost too much and it will cost, but not only in money but blood. the loyalists will never live with us weather we, changed our athiem and flag, and the british will not want to lord over the dog fight for long.
if when a majority of northerners want to join back with the south, and do this by violent means the south will rise as well. the south might seem dosile but as the old saying goes "scratch a irish person hard enough, you will find a violent republican"


unitied ireland=bosnia 1992-1994

luckat

Why is it assumed that it would have to happen through violence?

Many loyalists are looking for an Irish heritage - I've met loyalists who were learning Irish, learning about Irish history, which they hadn't been taught in school, learning about the archaeology of Ulster, and then of the other provinces - discovering the Presbyterian libertarian and nationalist tradition of Henry Joy McCracken, Wolfe Tone et al. Things are changing.

Cork

PH01 wrote:

Excellent idea. Cork, Kerry, Mayo and Donegal are too big. Split them up.

Cork is not too big.

The peoples republic will never be split. What do ye want? Civil War!!

Seriously, it is unfortunate that the troubles in NI happened. This is a factor that set the clock back regarding Irish unity.

I think, Unity will happen in a federal way.

We need a federal system of government with the abolishment of County and (God Help us) Town Councils.

DublinWriter

luckat wrote:

Many loyalists are looking for an Irish heritage - I've met loyalists who were learning Irish, learning about Irish history, which they hadn't been taught in school, learning about the archaeology of Ulster, and then of the other provinces - discovering the Presbyterian libertarian and nationalist tradition of Henry Joy McCracken, Wolfe Tone et al. Things are changing.

Well that is just basically the old 'Prods are just confused Irishmen' line that left-winger Republicans have been pushing for years. Unfortunately, the truth is a little more different than that...read Davy Irvine's biography.

In the meantime, some simple maths. ROI = 12,000 Gardi. NI = 20,000 PSNI plus 10,000 locally supporting members of the British Army. Do you think the ROI could economically afford that kind of level of Policing?

But you say, in a 32-county state all will be Nirvana and there won't be the need for those levels of police. 600.000 Loyalists may have a different idea and will take their struggle down south quick-sharpish.

To be honest, the question shouldn't be 'when', but 'why'. Apart from reasons of geographical neatness, why should we even bother thinking about a 32-county republic?

jesus_thats_gre

DublinWriter wrote:

read Davy Irvine's biography.

Good read it is too..

For anyone doubting that the North is basically a totally different country with totally different people, go to Lisburn..

Sand

Why would anyone want that god forsaken miserable dysfunctional society with its bitter hatreds and kulturkamps?

Maybe if a massive oil field was found under Belfast there might be some reason for the Republic to mire itself in a place where politics hasnt advanced since 1798, but until then it would be sheer madness.

omnicorp

luckat wrote:

Would have put up a poll, but I see that they're banned on the Politics forum (call no man free while his forum is in chains

So I'll just ask. Do you think there will be a 32-county Irish state:

Erm.. I got polls banned.
Don't ask how though.
And I don't want a 32 county state. More taxes etc... Terror moving to Dublin.

Capt'n Midnight

WRT to splitting 26 counties to get 32, Tipp already has a north and south riding, and there's Fingal, SDCC, DLR , And the Aran Islands seem to moved between Clare and Galway before so make them a county too..

OK the real reason why we won't have a united Island is the Unionists and it's simply a numbers game. Back in 1941 Dev was offered Norn Iron if he entered the war as an ally. He refused for the same reason the present leaders would refuse. The Unionists would have the balance of power as all the other parties would be roughly 50:50 eg: FF+PD+SF? vs. rest etc. Coalitions where small parties get to wag the dog can be good where they excersise a restraining influence on a larger extreme party (eg: in exactly the way the PD's don't). Where the small party is constantly threating stability to get it's own policies through may not be such a good idea.

marco murphy

In places the unionists are becoming extinct.Id say in 2016 area there will be unity.Its inevitable i think.

Lennoxschips

By 2020 we'll all be in a European superstate and nobody will care anymore.

That's my prediction.

marco murphy

What exactly do people mean ''superstate''

marco murphy

People will always care,look at history,generation after generation has stood up against the british in ireland.Iam sure republicans wont be gone in 2020

Lennoxschips

That's true, never underestimate the size of the collective chip on Irish shoulders.

marco murphy

Most top Leaders of the IRA have said they believe theyll see an armed resistance again.The ceasefire has happened before,and always there has been a phase afterwards,be it CIRA or whoever,therell probably be armed struggle again...

marco murphy

Or even....the south armagh brigade going on there own,i really wouldnt be suprised

Stabshauptmann

Economically

Many of the problems crippling our public services are simple supply and demand ones. The railway for example would make a smaller loss if it covered a larger geographical area.
Political stability is good for investment and industry.
Ireland could re-enter the market for low wage jobs.

Culturally

A lot of the modern renaissance in Irish culture has stemmed from the 6 counties. I feel that Ireland has become to Americanized. Its my opinion that this is just a fad, ppl becoming excited by what’s new and different. I think this is changing atm but we've took up this new ideology so fast we haven’t preserved our own distinct heritage. These traditions were not only preserved in the north but were strengthened as it became part of a social identity.
Ethnic diversity is something that has been lacking in Ireland and this has been shown clearly with the recent increase in racist behaviour. Reunification would certainly broaden the horizons.

Politically
Political stability. No more violence. A larger population and say in Europe. An end to a long outstanding problem.


I’m sure there are more as well.
The counter argument that we couldn’t afford the policing is unrealistic since reunification couldn’t happen if such violence and tension still existed as to call for such levels of policing.

marco murphy

I hate the westerized thing.In some cases iam sure its a good thing but i dont like it...

thejollyrodger

Ethnic diversity is something that has been lacking in Ireland and this has been shown clearly with the recent increase in racist behaviour.

Are you referring to the north ? Becuase the large increase in racist attacks has been reported in the 6 counties not the 26.

The Republic of Ireland has opened its doors to the east european countries, people who are highly skilled and highly motivated prepared to work for very reasonable prices. The south doesnt need labour from the north.

I feel that Ireland has become to Americanized

You mean like using z instead of s :P HAHA

I dont see any conflict of intrest, we have adopted american economic approach to business and commerce etc but we are culturally closer to Europe, eg football, arts, music, foreign policy et cetra. I hope Ireland continues this trend.

marco murphy

i believe ireland was a third world country till we joined the EU

marco murphy

We will get a 32 county state eventually,simple as that

gandalf

Not for 50 years at least. NI needs to flush a few more generations of bigots from both sides before they will be mature enough to join a united ireland. At the moment I would not want them, they would be a serious drain on this country. Also until the IRA has been disbanded fully and desists from "community policing" its political "wing" SF should not get near government anywhere.

marco murphy

I can surely see sinn fein of power in the 26 very soon....
Also.These racist attacks are very bad...
And there is also some vandals that need to be stopped

unme

Poblachtach wrote:

We will get a 32 county state eventually,simple as that

...they also say we are due a catastrophic meteor strike eventually too. Which comes first is anyone's guess.

As someone who has worked with many people from both communities in the North for many years, I honestly don't see any difference in them on the things that really matter. Indeed, I have come to understand and respect the beliefs of unionists as much as those of republicans, and count members of both communities among my friends.

While it is true that Sinn Fein is doing relatively well electorally in the South at the moment, it will need to be mindful of the more moderate views of people in the Republic if it is to hope for enough support to eventually share power here. They must have noticed that extremism has only polarised those they wish to unite.

The North and the United Ireland question is simply not a day-to-day concern for people in the South - and why should it be? From an economic, political and security perspective, it would simply not make sense. Why we should invite an all-island civil conflict that may last many generations is beyond my understanding.

Unity through a federal partnership between North and South is a more likely eventual arrangement. This would obviously not satisfy those who dream about a 32 county nationalist republic, but then again, in our democracy it is the wishes of the majority that should determine our future. Those not happy with the current political situation can console themselves with the fact that the huge cost and political burden of running the North is with their perceived foes in Westminster.

As a footnote, I spoke recently with a northern university student (who might consider himself a nationalist based on his religion/community background) and the subject of college fees came up. He considered himself 'fortunate' to be in the North, as his counterparts down South could not avail of the same arrangements. He detailed other similar differences where he enjoyed comparable benefits. Would he really want a 32-county Irish State? He suggested not.

pork99

Poblachtach wrote:

Most top Leaders of the IRA have said they believe theyll see an armed resistance again.The ceasefire has happened before,and always there has been a phase afterwards,be it CIRA or whoever,therell probably be armed struggle again...

The problem with that being that the constitutional arrangements on this island are underwritten by the democratic will of the Irish people and those arrangements can only be changed legitimately by democratic means.

Whatever we voted for in the GFA referendum it certainly wasn't that, the "armed resistance" you are proposing is armed resistance to Irish democracy and therefore an act of treason.

unme

Poblachtach wrote:

Most top Leaders of the IRA have said they believe theyll see an armed resistance again.The ceasefire has happened before,and always there has been a phase afterwards,be it CIRA or whoever,therell probably be armed struggle again...

A simple fact is that a common rule book, given to republican extremists on joining up as so-called "volunteers", explicitly states that their objectives include overthrowing the political systems in the south and replacing it with a socialist state run by the IRA (as they see themselves as the true inheritors of a united Ireland).

Many, though not all, people in the Republic are aware of this, so are much more concerned about the objectives of this extreme minority than they are about Northern Unionists or the British. Indeed we can live very happily and peacefully alongside both Unionists and British - though the thought of that may annoy certain agitators.

The fact that the vast majority of Irish people have no wish to see the country turn into another Cuba seems to be lost on a handful of people who still feel that they are fighting for a national cause. The distinction between "armed struggle" and "armed crime" has blurred to the point of being unrecognisable in the context of modern day Ireland.

Let's hope that all those who claim to fight for Ireland eventually come to accept the democratic views of the vast majority of Irish people - and that the activity they call "the armed struggle" is permanently a thing of the past.