M3 Clonee-Kells route selection and archaelogical info

murphaph

thejollyrodger wrote:

I think the motorway should be eventually extended all the way to the border for economic development. People in Derry and Donegal have a better chance of working there with a if there is high quality road going to the border.

I disagree. Firstly, Derry is in a different jurisdiction and I would have a BIG problem with my taxes being spent to allow Derry folk to work close to home (note that the DRD doesn't even want to extend the motorway from Belfast to Derry!!). As for Donegal, what is the population density there? it must surely be one of the lowest in the state and why have we got this fixation of allowing everyone to work close to their bithplace? Cities work! Civilisation has been around for thousands of years and it works! Look at ANY other country in Europe/US and you'll find that peeps have to move to bigger towns and cities to efficiently exchange their labour for goods and services (cash). People living and working together in cities has been a natural progression of humankind for millenia, now many peple in Ireland seem to think it's a bad thing. My $0.02, let he flames begin....

Didn't Cavan town get a high quality bypass a few years ago? I distinctly remember driving on it on my way to Enniskillen, no?

Crossley

thejollyrodger wrote:

I think P11 or someone should be demanding a bridge be built to accomadate 2 railway lines. The cost of the bridge wouldnt be a lot and would save a huge fiacso in the future.

Bit difficult at the moment when no route for the railway has been decided on (or even considered).

we do build our roads to a high standard (i.e what Is built as opposed to whats not built)

You are joking I hope. What about the lack of motorway median barriers? Trees growing on the outside of barriers where they do exist (central median of M50 nr N3 jct), trees planted as roadside landscaping right up to the edge of the shoulder (M50 nr N81 jct), poor road markings, poor surfaces, etc.

thejollyrodger

well, the motorways in belgium and Germany are ugly messy things. One straight line in germany with little landscaping (generalisation). Lots of overgrown stuff in the median in Belgium. The M1 is a decent job, but ok our roads arent that great.

IE or P11 should have a provisional route that can be put to government for the Navan rail line, even if it doesnt go ahead this decade. It cant be that hard to decide on a rail line (IMO).

The future M3 is going to service a lot of people in a lot of counties. Business can operate cheaper even with tolls, road deaths will decline. Towns like cavan and navan can prosper instead of everyone living in dublin

murphaph

thejollyrodger wrote:

well, the motorways in belgium and Germany are ugly messy things.

Yeah, the Autobahn is a real can of p*ss. :rolleyes:

thejollyrodger

no, not the autobahn, its a different class of road. I was on about the motorways, landscaping and straightlines

utopian

thejollyrodger wrote:

IE or P11 should have a provisional route that can be put to government for the Navan rail line, even if it doesnt go ahead this decade. It cant be that hard to decide on a rail line (IMO).

They know that any rail line will need to be built using a PPP, so no rail line will ever be built. All this talk of rail lines is strictly for the election.

thejollyrodger wrote:

The future M3 is going to service a lot of people in a lot of counties. Business can operate cheaper even with tolls, road deaths will decline. Towns like cavan and navan can prosper instead of everyone living in dublin

I think the problem is everyone working in Dublin and living outside it, rather than everyone living in Dublin. I wish I could share your optimism about the effect of the road of Meath, but I think the traffic will keep flowing in the same direction as currently.

BrianD

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Yeah how often do you travel on the N3? Not very often by the look of things... :rolleyes:

I lived off it for 25 years and use it once a week.

BrianD

Metrobest wrote:

I wonder was it true, what a guy in the Questions and Answers audience was saying about the M3 route slicing through the rail-line. If that's the case then, please, build a bridge and avoid future mayhem.

Building a bridge over the road is not a major problem at a later stage.

Metrobest wrote:

I have less sympathy for those who moan about tolls. Anyone unhappy with the toll can use the existing N3. My guess is most people will pay to avail of the quality road. Pay up, or shut up, is my feeling..

I have no problems with tolls per se but why this road? It's like shooting fish in a barrell. Lets build a road that will generate loads of commuter travel and then franchise out the tolling to make someone some easy money.

Metrobest wrote:

Nothing - and nobody - should now stand in the way of Meath people getting the road they deserve. It's quite clear the vast majority of people are delighted with the chosen route. Over 90 percent has given it the nod. Notice how the shrillest voices in the "Save" Tara group, principally Mr Safira [plus Mr McGrath- who has a strange opinion on the Third Reich] speak with Dublin 4 accents. Oh yeah, and I forgot about Stuart Townsend, who lives in .. Hollywood.

You are right. This monument to bad planning will go ahead no matter what any sane person says. There is no public demand for it and the electorate have indicated that they know very very little about the project. There is no silent majority. They.ve been sold a pup of a project on the pretence that it will improve their lives. Clearly this is not the case. It's the same bad planning and development that has forced them to live in meath in the first place and commute in Dublin.

Metro you have also got to realise that while the enviromentalist oppose it on the Tara issue many people oppose it because it is plain bad piece of infrastructure. We are told that this is a "national project" so anybody anywhere is entitled to comment - its apparently not just being built for the people in Meath!

crossley wrote:

Can anyone explain to me the purpose of the Blundelstown Interchange which is to be situated in the Tara-Skyrne valley? It's not to access Navan as the Kilcarn junction further on does that. If the Blundelstwon Interchange didn't exist I'd be far less concerned about eventual commercial development in the area.

It's close to Garlow Cross - one assumes that it is for people who want to visit Tara. Others say that the new outer ring (or M51 as its called in another post) will intersect the M3 here. Retail and suburban housing at this point is only a few years away.

thejollyroger wrote:

I think the motorway should be eventually extended all the way to the border for economic development. People in Derry and Donegal have a better chance of working there with a if there is high quality road going to the border.

Doubt if there are any plans to. The road is allow urban development close to Dublin. The N3 officially terminates in Ballyshannon of all places. This is a town that truely needs a motorway to Dublin.

thejollyroger wrote:

The future M3 is going to service a lot of people in a lot of counties. Business can operate cheaper even with tolls, road deaths will decline. Towns like cavan and navan can prosper instead of everyone living in dublin

Highly unlikely especially for Cavan and Navan. The road will open these towns up for more dormitory homes justified by the existence of the M3. Truck drivers avoid tolls so they won't use these roads so it makes no odds to business. it will be a safer road in the long run. A more imaginative road system for Meath would have opened up the county for development within but this was never thought of or even considered. Dublin can only really expand in two ways - north and west hence the roads that are of "national importance".

mackerski

thejollyrodger wrote:

no, not the autobahn, its a different class of road. I was on about the motorways, landscaping and straightlines

?????

Explain. "Autobahn" is the German word for "Motorway", yet you seem to want to distinguish the two, as though they were different things and Germany had examples of each.

Believe me, German Autobahnen are of widely variable quality, and many would be considered substandard in Ireland.

Dermot

Andrew Duffy

Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant:

http://www.meath.ie/Roads/M3_EIS/volume1/description_of_scheme.htm

... rejoining the existing N3 alignment in the townland of Pace and running parallel to the disused Clonsilla-Navan Railway through the townland of Piercetown ... Pace Grade-Separated Junction ... is also designed to provide the necessary clearance over the existing disused Clonsilla-Navan Railway line to accommodate any future plans to reopen the railway along its present alignment at this location. ...

For the record, I think the intercity roads should be completed and the public transport in Dublin and the other cities sorted out before schemes like the M3 are considered.

thejollyrodger

The Autobahn with the no speed limit and 4 or 5 lanes each way. Like Hamburg to Berlin. But they also have ordinary motorways with 2 lanes either side.

Good to see they have taken the rail line into consideration. I'm personally in favour of this new road.

Crossley

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant:

But if (and it's a big if) the railway is to go all the way to Navan at some stage it will have to cross the motorway at a further two points at least (i.e. Pace P&R will be on the eastern side of the road so it will need to cross back to the western side and also it will need to cross the Navan By-Pass element of the motorway as well. I assume it's these crossings that people are highlighting.

mackerski

thejollyrodger wrote:

The Autobahn with the no speed limit and 4 or 5 lanes each way. Like Hamburg to Berlin. But they also have ordinary motorways with 2 lanes either side.

What are you on about? It's an Autobahn the minute you pass sign 330 as shown here:

http://verkehrsportal.de/stvo/stvo_42.php

If it has 2 lanes, it's an Autobahn with 2 lanes. If it has a speed limit sign, it's an Autobahn with a non-default speed limit. There's no special classification for the nice wide derestricted ones.

Dermot

BrianD

Crossley wrote:

But if (and it's a big if) the railway is to go all the way to Navan at some stage it will have to cross the motorway at a further two points at least (i.e. Pace P&R will be on the eastern side of the road so it will need to cross back to the western side and also it will need to cross the Navan By-Pass element of the motorway as well. I assume it's these crossings that people are highlighting.

The railway is only conjecture at the moment and it is unlikely to follow the original route. I am not aware of any route that has been specifically highlighted. Nearly all of the land of the original route has been sold to adjacent farms at £40 a pop. Some of the former stations are private residences.

It's no big deal if there are no bridges for a rail line included in the M3. Rail bridges can be built over the road in due course. The new outer relief road that was built over the N7 at Baldonnell didn't cause a whole lot of inconvenience during construction.

The important thing is to identify a route and make sure it is reserved.

Victor

Provision is made for an overbridge over the existing railway alignment. Hovever this alignment no longer matches the development pattern along it's corridor.

Metrobest wrote:

principally Mr Safira ..... speak with Dublin 4 accents.

Lives near Tara and based on the two times I've spoken to him isn't exactly D4.

thejollyrodger wrote:

People in Derry

Use the A5 to get to the N2 (M2)/M1.

A Rail corridor could eventually be extended to Cavan as well

Cavan already has a railway and they don't use it.

murphaph

Victor wrote:

Cavan already has a railway and they don't use it.

I presume you mean the Kingscourt branch. Not a hope in hell it'll see passenger traffic anytime soon either, sure it runs through Navan to Drogheda via the Tara mines line (in very bad nick). The Kingscourt branch closed to traffic when cement manufacturers found a clay substitute to Gypsum which is cheaper. Gypsum used to be transported from Kingscourt but the line was in a bad way at closure a few years back.

Crossley

BrianD wrote:

I am not aware of any route that has been specifically highlighted.

There's a diversion from the original route shown in the Meath County Development Plan which leaves the old line roughly where Pace P&R is to be and loops around the western side of Ashbourne, through Ratoath and Dunshaughlin to rejoin its original path. This would take in the main urban areas where development is likely to be most intensive.

BrianD

Dunboyne-Ashbourne-Ratoath-Dunshaughlin-Navan?

That can't be right? Bit of an odd routing!

thejollyrodger

Originally Posted by thejollyrodger

People in Derry
Use the A5 to get to the N2 (M2)/M1.

M2 ? where is that ?

the m1 to the border is a good road at the moment, but not all traffic northeast bound can travel on it indefintely. Another motorway to the northweast is needed

BrianD

The N2 is being upgraded to the same standard as the M3 but it is not being designated a M-way. Possibly because people would look at a map see three parallel blue lines in Meath and go "What the hell!!"

Crossley

BrianD wrote:

Dunboyne-Ashbourne-Ratoath-Dunshaughlin-Navan?

That can't be right? Bit of an odd routing!

Have a look at the route map at http://www.meath.ie/devplan/rural_detail_maps/dunsh_infra.html

It's not as odd as it sounds. By rough calculation the distance from Pace to the point where the deviation rejoins the original alignment is 10mls as against 6mls by the original route. So for a 4ml deviation you pull in three large and rapidly expanding towns. Stick to the original line and it's greenfield all the way to Navan.

thejollyrodger

The N2 is being upgraded to the same standard as the M3 but it is not being designated a M-way. Possibly because people would look at a map see three parallel blue lines in Meath and go "What the hell!!"

Wow, a third 3 motorway/dual carriageway even ! That part of Ireland must have the highest concnetration of motorway in all of ireland !

BrianD

Had a look...the route must have drawn on April foolfs day or somebody with a great sense of humour!! That is the most ridiculous routing I have ever seen ... perhaps they go between every village in co. meath with the rail line!

Would be wiser to route east of Dunshaughlin so a park and ride could cater for Dunshaughlin, Rathoath and Ashbourne.

murphaph

wtf is option C all about? Is that for the sunday shoppers to the Blanch centre???

I still think the original alignment is most likely to be chosen for speed of railway order approval as well as construction. If I lived in Ashbourne however I could see how it might seem like a missed opportunity to me.

Victor

murphaph wrote:

I presume you mean the Kingscourt branch. Not a hope in hell it'll see passenger traffic anytime soon either, sure it runs through Navan to Drogheda via the Tara mines line (in very bad nick). The Kingscourt branch closed to traffic when cement manufacturers found a clay substitute to Gypsum which is cheaper. Gypsum used to be transported from Kingscourt but the line was in a bad way at closure a few years back.

Gypsum is used for plasterboard and plaster products. Cement is, well, different.

murphaph wrote:

wtf is option C all about? Is that for the sunday shoppers to the Blanch centre???

Not just that, it also serves the industrial estates in Ballycoolen and makes the centre of Blanchardstown more 'holistic'.

murphaph wrote:

I still think the original alignment is most likely to be chosen for speed of railway order approval as well as construction. If I lived in Ashbourne however I could see how it might seem like a missed opportunity to me.

But who would it serve? Dunboyne and Navan and nothing in between? While "loose" the suggested routes have some merits. Another possibility would be Navan-Dunshaughlin-Rathoath-Ashbourne-Finglas-Cabra.

murphaph

Victor wrote:

Gypsum is used for plasterboard and plaster products. Cement is, well, different.

Quoting from Gypsum Industries Ireland (link):
"Raw gypsum is mined from our quarry at Knocknacran. The rock is loaded by tracked mass excavators and transported to a crushing plant. After passing through primary and secondary roll type crushers, where the material is reduced in size, the rock is blended in a homogeniser, where its quality is controlled using data obtained from laboratory analyses of automatically controlled samples. The crushed rock is conveyed from the homogeniser and then transported by road to the plaster and plasterboard factory near Kingscourt. Cement rock is supplied to the cement manufacturing companies in Ireland where it is used as an additive in the manufacture of cement." The website is out of date because they no longer supply Irish Cement with 'cement rock'. Hence Kingscourt no onger needed a rail connection.

Victor wrote:

Not just that, it also serves the industrial estates in Ballycoolen and makes the centre of Blanchardstown more 'holistic'.

But it would only connect to the national rail network at the Navan end (that's how it looks on the map anyway and if it's supposed to connect at Porterstown then good luck to the engineers!

Victor wrote:

But who would it serve? Dunboyne and Navan and nothing in between? While "loose" the suggested routes have some merits. Another possibility would be Navan-Dunshaughlin-Rathoath-Ashbourne-Finglas-Cabra.

Dunboyne and Navan directly, many hundreds of P&R users from Kells, Trim, Athboy etc. and Dunshaughlin and even Ratoath can be served with a shuttle bus. This would be very similar to Naas & Sallins station on the Kildare line. I believe Ashbourne & Ratoath can be better served with a DART extension from Liffey Junction via Finglas. Failing that a simple spur could be built at Pace which could serve Ashbourne & Ratoath without snaking all over the countryside. If you went Navan-Dunshaughlin-Rathoath-Ashbourne-Finglas-Cabra then you lose Dunboyne but more importantly the SDZ at Hansfield and close by Ongar village. Unless you've seen these places you'd never believe the scale of developments up there.

D'Peoples Voice

Victor wrote:

No, if you look at the maps, the route they have chosen is longer, further away from Trim *and* causes more archaelogical disturbance.

How about we build a motorway between the Pyramids, but not actually on the Pyramids?

Victor,
I have finally come around to your way of thinking. If you asked me this time last year, should the change the route of the M3, I'd say no way, bearing in mind all the work that has been done on the EIS/CPO, and how long it would take to re-do all this work if they changed the route.
But the more I look at a map of Ireland as opposed to just Meath, I believe for the benefit of the country/midlands, the route of the M3 should now be changed. Before I say what I'm going to say, I take on board someone's point about the Ardee turnoff on the M1 is not being used for people wishing to go to Monaghan, and how Slane is still crowded each day, and therefore would a similar solution work for Navan!(My answer to this is that over the next few years as Navan continues to grow, they may extend the proposed train from Clonee to Navan.)
Anyway, looking at a map of Ireland, between the M50 and the N51, the N2 is too close to the N3, when you consider the gap between the N3 and the N4. (And, no i'm not suggesting build a road because it looks pretty on a map, I'll explain my line of thinking)

What they should do is build the M3 OVER the "R154" from a place called "Black Bull" on the current N3, bypassing Batterstown,Trim and Athboy(to the right). Then continue the M3 over the "R164" bypassing Kells(to the left) and it will bring you back onto the N3.
If you look at this map, you will see Meath county council are already proposing updating the R154, in which case a EIS/CPO may already have been done, albeit not assuming a motorway was being proposed!
http://www.meath.ie/devplan/rural_detail_maps/dunsh_infra.html
Obviously there could be a problem because of people living on the R154 & R164, but thats why we have CPO.
THEN build the outer Dublin bypass/M50, OVER the N51, except where the current N51 goes from Navan to Athboy, redirect it to Navan to Trim(M3) and onto to Kinegad(M4-M6), Kildare(M7-M8), Kilcullen(M9) and finally Wicklow town(M11).
Then what you will have is good transport for people commutin from Trim to Navan, and because the new N51 will be a high class road (relatively speaking), people from Navan could tolerate making the short journey to Trim to get on the M3 or to Slane to get on the N2.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=trim+%2B+ireland&ll=53.629982,-6.806030&spn=0.776741,1.925629&hl=en
(Looking at the map, it would look like a quicker/more direct route for people driving to Cavan from Dublin)
Finally, it would be closer to the current disused railway line, which suggests that future park and ride facilites would be available if that line was ever re-introduced (as part of a Dublin - Cavan - Derry/Letterkenny route) .
But that's just an opinion, and I'm sure the experts in the NRA would have looked at this route, and not chose it for a very good reason, thats why they design roads and I don't.

gerrydublin

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

THEN build the outer Dublin bypass/M50, OVER the N51, except where the current N51 goes from Navan to Athboy, redirect it to Navan to Trim(M3) and onto to Kinegad(M4-M6), Kildare(M7-M8), Kilcullen(M9) and finally Wicklow town(M11).

you may have a point here!
Just checkecd
http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1898&CatID=48&StartDate=01+January+2003&m=
Some of the towns that are to be the recipients of decentralised Departments are Drogheda, Navan, Trim, the Curragh/Newbridge and finally Arklow.
This N51 may do more for Decentralisation that anything else this Government ever do!
It would seem strange though the Irish Government decentralising people to Trim but then purposely avoiding routing the M3 near Trim especially when it would be easier to use the R164/R154 or whichever road you were proposing!

Methinks we are not being told the whole truth!
According to that map, Meath CoCo are to get tax payers money to do up the R154 ANYWAY, seems like a case of wasted resources that could be badly diverted to Kilmeaden in Waterford!

BrianD

Given the discussion about the Dublin-Navan rail line and that it is unlikely to built within the next decade it would be certainly be a good idea to establish the routing and fence it off (not literally). This means the unecessary M3 can bridge it and rational and sustainable development can be planned.

D'Peoples Voice

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0301/tara.html
Court rejects M3 injunction bid

01 March 2006 16:04

The High Court has rejected an application for an injunction which would effectively have stopped work on the M3 motorway.

The injunction would have possibly led to its re-routing from the Tara/Skryne Valley in Co Meath.

In his reserved judgement today, Mr Justice Thomas Smith rejected the application by campaigner Mr Vincent Salavia on all grounds.

The judge ruled that Mr Salavia had delayed in taking his legal action and that he did not have the legal standing to take the action in the first place.

The judge also ruled that the Minister for the Environment, Dick Roche, did not err in granting licences to allow archaeological works to proceed on 36 sites in the valley.

Maskhadov

Great news. Just a shame it cost us all €150million for the delay

NavanJunction1

Maskhadov wrote:

shame it cost us all €150million for the delay

Don't think there was a delay, but I may be wrong. The archaeological digs didn't stop at any stage.. The reports in the local papers were that work was continueing apace since whenever it was last summer when the digs started..

Maskhadov

The first sod still wont be turned for another year according to the print media

NavanJunction1

It will be interesting to see what comes out about it in the next while.

There is no excuse for not having work started on the first phase to Dunshaughlin as the Blackbull Junction (Trim Rathoath Fairyhouse N3 junction) is a disaster, and Dunshaughlin a mess.

murphaph

Was the draft toll scheme published yet? Anybody got any ideas on how much the two tolls will be?

NavanJunction1

murphaph wrote:

Was the draft toll scheme published yet? Anybody got any ideas on how much the two tolls will be?

No. But NRA have a price of €1.06 for 2001 prices on their site. 2 tolls at that rate. Tolls won't be split.

Irish Indo said E1.25 per toll today but I don't know where that came from..

Maskhadov

the indo has turned into a rag and i wouldnt belive any of what they print

murphaph

I can't see each toll being as expensive as the M4 but combined they probably will be. If they try to charge €2.50 or anything like it for Kells-Navan, people will just sue the old road, Navan having a relief road at least. Dunshaughlin is another matter. In France these toll roads are free between the north and south exits around towns they bypass and tolled in between. Not here though :rolleyes:

Maskhadov

The tolls are a major case for a commuter rail service for Navan to Dublin.

NavanJunction1

Well, consider how things stand in terms of the prospect for developing jobs in Meath.

Compare Navan with Naas. If you are a business looking to set up in A) Kildare or Meath would you go to to Navan with 2 tolls and no rail link, or Naas with no tolls and a rail link.

Navan needs rail more than ever now

D'Peoples Voice

thejollyrodger wrote:

Wow, a third 3 motorway/dual carriageway even ! That part of Ireland must have the highest concnetration of motorway in all of ireland !

Well Jollyrodger, they need a third dual carriageway/motorway, after all just because all the traffic from Kilkenny,Waterford, Cork, Kerry and Limerick can fit on the one approach to Dublin (N7) does not mean that Slane, Navan and Belfast don't need their OWN dual carriageway/motorway on their approach to Dublin.:D

PORNAPSTER wrote:

I live in East Cavan and I use both the M1 and N3 to get to Dublin. So people who do not travel this route, please stop arguing against it. It is needed for the people of Meath, Cavan, Fermanagh and alot of Donegal.

Metrobest wrote:

As much as for Meath, the M3 will benefit all the Northern counties.

thejollyrodger wrote:

I think the motorway should be eventually extended all the way to the border for economic development. People in Derry and Donegal have a better chance of working there with a if there is high quality road going to the border.

BrianD wrote:

A dual carriage way accross from say Navan to the M2 and M1 would achieve exactly the same results and tap into two under utilised roads. This would ease pressure on the existing N3 south of Navan while more than serving Navan residents and those north of it. It also opens up a corridor from east-west accross the county.

The people of Cavan, Fermanagh and a lot of Donegal will want to avoid Clonee & Blanch and will therefore travel on the M1 or N2, not on this new M3 as soon as the outer ring road(N51) between Drogheda and Navan, via Slane is completed. Until then, they will use the backroads between Kells and Slane until then, rather than pay the toll at Pace.

Hence what we should be looking at is building a motorway from Dublin to Letterkenny; feeding Cavan, Fermanagh, Monaghan, Tyrone, Armagh, Donegal & Derry, in a similar fashion to the way the N7 braches out to Kilkenny,Waterford, Cork, Kerry and Limerick. Using a starting point of Dublin city, we should ask ourselves, is it better to direct all the traffic from the north west through the Blanch/Cabra axis or Ashbourne/Finglas axis. Then build the road. However it looks like the developers are just saying, there was a road so it's needs to up upgraded. Have they really assessed the numbers! Thankfully it's a PPP and the Gov are not footing the whole bill. But the people of the North West deserve better.

murphaph wrote:

Build the Interconnector (as well as completing Spencer Dock Station) and at the same time reopen Navan line completely including a multi-storey P&R at Pace and anywhere else that's deemed appropriate

thankfully this is being done in T21.

I've nothing against road transport if it carries enough freight transport to justify it, but if it's carrying commuters who will simply dump their cars in a car park between the hours of 10am and 4pm, then the road is underutilised for most of the day. What they need is a 'reliable' & 'cheap' train service as you say!
I'm hoping any P+R at Pace will remove MOST of the traffic coming from the North West and not inconvenience the Blanch-Cabra axis too much, but I don't think this is realistic.

NavanJunction1

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

if it's carrying commuters who will simply dump their cars in a car park between the hours of 10am and 4pm, then the road is underutilised for most of the day. What they need is a 'reliable' & 'cheap' train service as you say!

My personal worry about the M3 coming on stream without the railway is that nobody will be able to travel to Dublin for hours in the morning because Blanch will be a no go zone even more badly gridlocked than at present.

As it is, for half the year it can take 2.5hrs to get from Navan to Dublin CC. Blanchardstown is a nightmare as it is, without the increased traffic volumes which will accompany the growth envisaged for Meath in the coming years.

The entire Navan line will take 8,000 cars per hour (peak hourss) or so off the N3 which in my mind means that I could zoom to Dublin in 50 mins (as I can do during the builders holidays during the summer) more often if I decided to keep driving to work.

As a daily commuter to Dublin from Navan I think the M3 without the railway is transport suicide for county Meath.

D'Peoples Voice

http://www.irishtrucker.com/news/2006/july/1707063.asp

Opponents of M3 may face prosecution

A group of protesters against the M3 motorway have been told by the Garda that they could be prosecuted for setting up a 'solidarity camp' on the Hill of Tara.

Acting at the request of the Office of Public Works (OPW), Garda officers visited the site on Saturday, July 15th, warning campers that they could be charged under the 2002 Housing Act. This criminalises trespass on public or private land.
Tara Watch is campaigning against plans to route the M3 past the Hill of Tara. The group argues that people had camped there for decades and none had been prosecuted.

Those taking part in the protest said it was “a people’s solidarity camp”, independent of any campaign or political party. According to Tara Watch, the campers have stated that they intend remaining on the hill to “complete a religious ceremony” which would finish on August 2nd.

A spokesman for the OPW said it normally did not allow people to camp on heritage sites, but made an exception for those who wished to camp on the Hill of Tara for the solstice on June 21st. They stated that they notified the gardai when the campers would not move.

We can kiss the 2008 completion date goodbye!

mackerski

D'Peoples Voice wrote:

We can kiss the 2008 completion date goodbye!

Not clear - if they stay on the Hill of Tara they should be well clear of any road works.

Dermot

spacetweek

mackerski wrote:

Not clear - if they stay on the Hill of Tara they should be well clear of any road works.

Dermot

True - the new road will be some distance from the hill.

Navan Junction

I'm not sure if the state has purchased the land yet.. The route could still be in private ownership..

westtip

Metrobest wrote:

The "Sava Tara" campaigners are getting desperate. So are the Irish Times journalists who seem determined to slant their coverage. We never hear from the silent majority, the people who want this motorway to be built ASAP. I hate the way the Save Tara green goblins are hijacking this issue, pretending they have public support. The commuters of Navan, Dunshaughlin and Dunboyne need this motorway.

Something has got to be done. The senseless "Save" Tara campaign is causing immense suffering - to taxpayers, to commuters.. and to newspaper readers bored out of their trees by this ridiculous protest. I feel that if the "Save Tara" group delays this project any further, they should have to pay the costs. That would soon silence them!

Remember the hippies who hugged the trees in the Glen O'The Downs? Who now would seriously contend that that road was a mistake? Maybe the Irish Times should take a look at its own Trees supplement, published Tuesday, in which options for tree-lined roads were discussed. It was stated that there are now MORE trees on the Glen than ever!

What this means for Tara is this. Screened by trees, miles away from the Hill, twice as far away as the existing N3, the new M3 will be completely unobtrusive.

The Save Tara campaign is being run by exactly the same kind of visionary people who tried to stop Dublin City Council pouring concrete over the finest Viking heritage site many moons ago to build the concrete bunker which now stands on Wood Quay - this could have now been one of the greatest tourist attractions in Ireland (The Yorvik centre in York is one of the UK's leading tourist attractions) - instead the city councillors are parking their fat backsides on it monday to friday. Thank god there are people prepared to sit up and say Tara shoudl be protected and is important. The merits or need for the M3 have been much debated on these boards in several different threads, and what is said will probably have absolutely no effect on the final outcome.

The M3 built to Motorway standard is IMO, completely unnecessary, because of duplicity of the N2/n3 both upgraded to dual carriageway/motorway within spitting distance of each other - parish pump politics I am afraid, It is a joke I know transport planners and transport economists who just scratch their heads and say why? Navan will get its motorway, the flabby white boys will puff out their chests saying look what I did for you, and that is what it is all about.

Many people have argued against the M3 on the rationale that three motorways running north south through meath is overkill, and it is, Anyone with an ounce of intelligence and a map of Ireland on the office wall could see that traffic should be funnelled towards one radial route to the M50,notwithstanding all issues re Tara. With regard to the M3 being an axial route to the north west (cavan, Leitrim, Fermananagh, Derry and Donegal) no one in the NRA or other bodies has ever suggested as an alternative the trans-border route option of a good quality dual carriageway from Sligo to Dundalk via Enniskillen and Monaghan as an alternative route to Dublin from the North and North West. It would be no hardship for a driver from Donegal to swing East on such a route at Enniskillen and join the M1 at Dundalk, the additional mileage would be negligible based on travelling at motorway speeds - it would certainly be a better route to the airport. Such a road would also contribute greatly to the economies of the border counties on both sides of the border. A good fast road link between Monaghan and Dundalk (ie upgrade N2 and n54) would also alleviate some of the problems in that region with dispersed medical (hospital services), if this route were dualled the travel time from Monaghan to Dundalk would be about 25 minutes (it is about 25 miles - an ambulance at full pelt would do it it in between 15 to 20 minutes. Of course such a piece of infrastructure would require a great deal of cross border planning and co-operation - which in spite of the stuttering Agreement is something I am sure could be achieved. There are billions waiting to be spent on infrastructre projects in the North if the politicians could sort themselves out.

The greatest pity about the way our new motorway system has been planned is that politicians were ever allowed to become involved. Once that happened the flabby white boys justwanted to be able to puff out their chests and say look at the new motorway I bought to town. The whole thing has been based on copying the old radial routes instead of planning the system in a holistic manner.

D'Peoples Voice

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0430/m3.html

First sod turned for M3 motorway
Monday, 30 April 2007 14:37
The Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen, has turned the first sod for the M3 motorway just outside Navan, Co Meath.

Organisers kept the event low key to avoid opponents to the project turning up.

It is expected construction work on the motorway, which is estimated will cost between €800m and €1bn, will begin in a matter of days.

AdvertisementDescribed as the largest project of its kind ever undertaken in the country, the scheme will see 49km of motorway being built from Clonee in Co Meath to just north of Kells in addition to several access roads.

It is expected the motorway will be open by July 2010.

The motorway will bypass the towns of Dunboyne, Dunshaughlin, Navan and Kells.

However, it remains hugely controversial as it runs through the Tara/Skryne valley and objectors say it will damage the archaeological landscape of the Hill of Tara.

At the ceremony Minister Cullen denied the project is a gamble, as a case is being taken to the Supreme Court by An Taisce which could halt the scheme.

The minister said the people of the area had waited long enough for the motorway.

Today's move has been criticised by those opposed to the project.

spacetweek

Unbelievable... almost too good to be true. It's taken so, so long. They've announced the "imminent" start of construction of this road every single year for about the last 5 years.

FTR this road was originally supposed to be finished last year, according to the first NDP.

The residents of Meath need to keep pushing for the Navan rail line - with this new road link and the rail, transport in Meath could finally enter the 21st century.

Victor

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=9093&lang=ENG&loc=2126

Cullen turns sod on 59 kms M3 national road project
30 April 2007

Transport Minister, Martin Cullen, TD today (Monday, 30 April 2007) turned the sod on the M3 Clonee to North of Kells national road project. The project is being funded through private finance, the Government's investment programme Transport 21 and the National Development Plan. With a route length, including connecting roads of 59 kms, it is the longest stretch of new road to go to construction in the State to date. The main contractors working on the project are the Eurolink Consortium (CINTRA, SA and SIAC) and the main engineers are M3 MeathConsult. The project is due to be completed in summer 2010.

The scheme will bypass the towns of Dunboyne, Dunshaughlin, Navan, Tara, Kells and other smaller communities in the area.

Speaking at the sod turning ceremony, Minister Cullen said: "Once completed, this road project will aid the competitiveness and efficiencies in the economy of county Meath and other counties served by the N3/M3 route, particularly through reduced transport costs and improved journey time predictability. The quality of life of the thousands of people who use the route and those living along or near it, will be enhanced through an improvement in road safety, air quality, and journey times. Significant reductions in travel times will be delivered along the route for commuters and business people travelling into and out of Dublin."

This major investment in the physical infrastructure of the region forms part of a series of other road projects also under the Government's investment programme Transport 21, some of which are already underway or in planning, including the Virginia Bypass, the Belturbet Bypass and Ballyshannon to the border. When completed, these projects will link together to provide a high quality route between Dublin and the Border as well as south Donegal and Leitrim.

Mr Peter Malone, Chairman of the NRA said: "Today is hugely significant in road building terms with work starting on the longest road contract to go to construction in the history of the State. At almost 60 kms in length, the M3 Clonee to Kells scheme is indicative of the magnitude of the current national roads programme and the significant contribution the Public Private Partnership element is delivering. This project will open up the Northwest by improving access from Dublin to Donegal resulting in greater commercial and tourism opportunities. The pace at which the roads programme is being rolled out is set to continue with construction to start in three days time on the second largest road project to date the N6, Galway to Ballinasloe."