A Question about Import Licences

Micheal Wittman

Hey

Anybody know how long it takes to get a firearms importation licence?

Thanks

Sparks

That's a $64,000,000 question at the moment Michael. See the threads on pistols and the legislation changes in the forum at the moment.

GreenGun

For any thing other than a pistol you will have an import by registered letter in under two weeks.
Pistols will be processed from today on an individual basis.
(According to the DOJ as of friday...... Yea I know we have heard that one before!!!!)
If you have a Irish license you don’t need an Import.
My advice would be to get the import anyway!

civdef

GreenGun wrote:

Pistols will be processed from today on an individual basis.

Any word on what sort of slant they're taking on granting them?

GreenGun

The fact that they are looking at them on a case by case basis means they are looking for some reason (any reason) to turn down applications.
As far as I am aware they can’t legally turn down EU transfers.
GreenGun.

If any one knows different please quote the act or SI.

GreenGun

The DOJ are writing to applicants today looking for there reason for wanting the pistols they have applied for.
So nice long letters everyone!
GreenGun

civdef

GreenGun wrote:

The DOJ are writing to applicants today looking for there reason for wanting the pistols they have applied for.
So nice long letters everyone!
GreenGun

Isn't this a duplication of effort? The Gardai will have already asked this when deciding to grant/refuse a firearms certificate. It'd be understandable to people wishing to import in advance of receiveing a firearms cert, but otherwise...

GreenGun

Yep! It’s Duplication all right. Roll out the red tape!
The DOJ and the Gardai don’t seem to talk to each other on this one!

Sparks

GreenGun wrote:

If you have a Irish license you don’t need an Import.

Just in case Michael doesn't catch it in the other threads, so far as we know (having asked the DoJ directly), this isn't correct.
Section 17 of the 1925 Act says you cannot import any firearm without an importation order from the DoJ.

As far as I am aware they can’t legally turn down EU transfers.

Again, according to the letter of the law, this isn't correct. (And since McDowell was a barrister by training, the letter counts for a lot).

The DOJ and the Gardai don’t seem to talk to each other on this one!

So lets make sure that we don't get caught in the middle!

GreenGun

See section 21 of the 64 act

Sparks

There's a grey area in that one Green, as to when your firearms certificate comes into force. I'd want legal advice before entrusting my lack of a criminal record to it...
(Remember, you get one conviction for illegally importing a firearm, and that's it, no more target shooting for the next five years, as well as the hassle of having a gun-running conviction on your record...)

civdef

Fair play to you Green, I'd never heard of that one before (was importing under a dealers licence rather than in individual one), and it seems very clear to me.

Isn't it a great little country we have altogether when the Dept doesn't know it's own laws? Has this been confirmed in writing or is there any legal precedent to go on?

Sparks

Civ, I'm pretty sure from a first reading that that law says that Article 17 doesn't apply when you're travelling to and from competitions outside the state and that sort of thing, not that you don't need an importation order to bring in the firearm when you buy it. Those last few words in that article are what worry me:

"The restriction imposed by section 17 of the Principal Act on the
importation into the State of firearms shall not apply in relation to the
importation of a firearm by the holder of a firearm certificate in respect of
the firearm which is in force."

Again, get professional legal advice before risking it...

civdef

You're reading an awful lot into a paragraph that seems very clear. It says nothing aboiut buying or similar.

When you asked the DoJ, were you talking to someone in a position to know, or just a civil servant with the default "no" answer to everything?

Sparks

It's that last bit about the cert being in force that worries me Civ, I'd want to go see what they define that as. Don't get me wrong here - it certainly looks like it's exactly what we need to see - and that's what's bugging me. What looks too good to be true, usually is, after all. I mean, this would mean that the entire importation order setup has been illegal (except for dealers) for the past 40 years and no-one noticed...

civdef

That time limit thing is separate, refers to the relaxation of the previous time limit on an import licence.
Under the 25 act, an import licnece was only valid for a maximum of amonth (6 if a continuing licnece)

Sparks

civdef wrote:

That time limit thing is separate, refers to the relaxation of the previous time limit on an import licence.
Under the 25 act, an import licnece was only valid for a maximum of amonth (6 if a continuing licnece)

It's not the time limit on the import licence I'm thinking of Civ, it's when they define your firearms certificate as coming into force - that's where I'd watch for the other shoe to start dropping. But then, I'm a suspicious sod

civdef

How do you mean? Once you've paid for your cert, and it's been signed, it's valid, or am I missing something?

Sparks

That's exactly the question that's running through my head Civ. Common sense says it's when the cert is signed and handed to you. Unfortunately, common sense isn't. Especially in a court. And I'd rather not bet my lack of a criminal record on a legal opinion from someone who's not a soliciter or barrister.

civdef

I still don't see the problem. What doubts are there about when the licence is valid?

Sparks

The kind of "I don't trust the law to be that clear and easy to read" doubts civ. Which get rather significant when the penalty for a mistake is losing the firearms you already own, not being able to hold any for several years, maybe jail or a fine, and having a criminal record for the rest of your life. In short, I wouldn't be betting my morgage on my ability to correctly interpret legislation - I'd want professional legal advice first.