Was Elvis the greatest.....

Hairy Homer

...or was he a template for all that is bad in popular music?

The King? God? The founder of rock and roll, without whom it would never have happened?

Or a sad bloated drug-addled manufactured pop star who paved the way for the packaged boy bands and corporate whoredom so prevalent in the industry today.

I'm moved to pose this question by noticing the frequent appearance in an ad currently running on TV of Elvis peforming 'Suspicious Minds' from some stage act late in his career. And I'm left asking 'This man is a legend because...?'

The stage act: rhinestone jumpsuit and spasticated dance routine, awful Busby Berkely-style background setting?

The arrangement: Big brass band, dreadful pseudo-celestial chorus from female backing singers, undanceable rythm?

Is this what rock 'n roll was all about? Background music for Las Vegas high rollers?

Some might argue that this was the latter day Elvis. Very different from the young Elvis who really did create a revolution by bringing black man's music to white kids in the 1950s and kick starting a new genre of music from which everything of any import has been derived ever since.

To which I would reply:


1) Elvis was NOT the first white man to play black man's music. Al Jolson, Benny Goodman, Glenn Miller, even Frank Sinatra all made popular music forms that originated in African music long before Elvis ever bought his first pair of blue suede shoes.

American music is the great melting pot of styles from Africa and Europe. It's one of the great things America has given the world, but never forget that the ingredients came from elsewhere. Jazz and swing were American interpretations of African music long before rock 'n roll appeared.

2) Ever seen an Elvis impersonator who models himself on the young, sexy, dangerous Elvis in tight drainpipes, once considered so corrupting of teenage female minds that TV cameras were restricted to filming him from the waist up?

No? Neither have I.

Think Elvis impersonators now and it's some sad fat git in a ridiculous jump suit with fake chest hair and a highly implausible toupe, incorporating side burns singing bloody awful interpretations of songs that could have been great.

If that's the legend of rock and roll it's time to get back into uillean pipes, bodhrans, Mozart and Beethoven and all the other wonderful music that Europe gave the world.

The King is dead. Let him lie.

Sleipnir

Ah Elvis was great. His live performances were just electrifying.
I only wish I had been alive to go to one.....

magpie

Do you even need to ask? Watch the '68 Comeback Special if you need convincing.

Beerbreath

Well,I think it's a cultural thing. I mean, I'm not a huge fan of the music Elvis made...some great songs in the early years and few good ones later on but I've never listened to him at any great length. But I think that back in the 50's, of course he was seen as quite revolutionary because he was the first person that most people saw doing this raw, new rock and roll that parents were so worried about. I guess it was the beginnings of youth culture in a big way, and the first time a massive gap started to emerge between generations that followed through the 60's. You mention that Elvis wasn't the first to mix white and black music..well of course he wasn't, but the original pioneers sometimes are not the most widely recognised. It sometimes takes some figure to propell it to a wider audience, which Elvis did when he cam along. It's not really a bad or good thing, just the way it happens.
I would assume that seeing Elvis on tv or hearing his records back then for a young person would have been quite exciting and the equivalent of punk or whatever in latter days. It was just the impact that Elvis made and everything that followed which is the reason he is held in such reverance. It's up to individual listeners if they think the music itself stands up. Personally, I prefer Buddy Holly's stuff, but that doesn't negate my view that it was really Elvis who was at the forefront of rock and roll it's mainstream infancy.

The Muppet

He was not the founder of rock n roll as Bill Haleys Rock around the closk was the first Rock N Roll Number 1 way back in January 1956. He is the undisputed king of rock and roll and the greatest entertainer ever to grace a stage IMHO.

The King is Dead. Long Live the King

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

imagine, in 50 years time after justin timberlake has passed on for whatever reason, your childrens (or indeed, their children) will be watching videos of his performing live on stage (it was electrifying, grandad said.. to see him gyrate his hips so), singing classics like "... I don't actually know the names of any of his songs" etc etc and wondering "this was the king of music for my parents generation?"

elvis was ... a pop star. Just another one of many.

The Muppet

Mordeth wrote:

imagine, in 50 years time after justin timberlake has passed on for whatever reason, your childrens (or indeed, their children) will be watching videos of his performing live on stage (it was electrifying, grandad said.. to see him gyrate his hips so), singing classics like "... I don't actually know the names of any of his songs" etc etc and wondering "this was the king of music for my parents generation?"

elvis was ... a pop star. Just another one of man.

That will never happen Justin Timberlake and his ilk will be long forgotten in 20 years time, Just ask any twenty year old who's Luke Goss ? They will be unlikely to be able to tell you. Elvis's music is immortal and is still popular across the age brackets from teenagers to grannies and I dont believe that will ever change because he is a legend.

Elvis was a one off , He never was or never will be just another one of many.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

That will never happen Justin Timberlake and his ilk will be long forgotten in 20 years time

wishful thinking? I'd like to think.. but you'd never know..

irlirishkev

Hairy Homer wrote:

..
I'm moved to pose this question by noticing the frequent appearance in an ad currently running on TV of Elvis peforming 'Suspicious Minds' from some stage act late in his career. And I'm left asking 'This man is a legend because...?'

The stage act: rhinestone jumpsuit and spasticated dance routine, awful Busby Berkely-style background setting?

Some might argue that this was the latter day Elvis. Very different from the young Elvis who really did create a revolution by bringing black man's music to white kids in the 1950s and kick starting a new genre of music from which everything of any import has been derived ever since.

Unfortunately, like most of the general public, you've seen too many Elvis (barf) Impersonators.

The scene you're referring to was filmed in Vegas in 1970. Elvis didn't really start to 'lose it' untill 1974. Up untill then he was in great physical shape and cared deeply for what it was always about.. the music.

You refer to a 'spasticated' dance routine? He was moving to the music, and if you ever see the documentary it's taken from (That's The Way it Is), you'll see he's not the only one. For example, during that same song, Sammy Davis Junior is in the audience giving it socks!

Hairy Homer wrote:

Think Elvis impersonators now and it's some sad fat git in a ridiculous jump suit with fake chest hair and a highly implausible toupe, incorporating side burns singing bloody awful interpretations of songs that could have been great

Elvis impersonators are a sick cliché which they themselves have created. I mean come on, not one of them looks anything like Elvis, yet they all seem to look the same. Even in Elvis' lowest moments in the months before he passed away, as much as he looked nothing like his former self.. he still looked a thousand times better than those clowns you see at Elvis conventions.

As Mordeth said - Elvis was a 'pop star'. Very true. But the difference is, he was ground breaking. Nothing these days is ground breaking, because Elvis kicked it off, and everything since then has just been building on that.
Also, Nobody has ever sounded like Elvis, before or since. And that goes for Elvis' voice throughout his career. It was constantly changing, yet it was always recognisable. Even at 18 years of age, Elvis sounded fantastic.

I don't know where I'm going with this, so I'll stop ranting..
In a nutshell, Elvis was the best there ever was. Others have tried, and they'll keep on trying, but no-one will ever even come close.

Kev

Giblet

Watch Suspicious minds with the kick ass drum breaks at the end!

mobile04

love his music style etc
hated the films

sinatra another legend
im trying to get my elvis collection and sinatra beatles
collection complete.
if theres any big serious fans out there
id love to hear from ya.
just got let it be on dvd amazing. ground breaking doucumentry.
elvis is so age less
my kid thinks hes so cool . hes just 12 years old and still he thinks hes got the voice looks etc....
good acts are for ever.

Doctor J

What irlirishkev said.

Avoid the movies and the hype, get the Sun Recordings and the 68 Comeback Special and That's The Way It Is DVD's and feel privileged to be able to witness a true and justified legend.

Dr. Loon

Elvis is/was fúcking amazing. An amazing performer with a brilliant understanding of the music he was playing. He also had an amazing backing band at all times. The only voice IMO that I think is close/as good is Roy Orbison's. It's highly unlikely there will ever be another like him. A pop star yes, but todays pop stars don't have a patch on him.

Tusky

I wouldnt sit down and listen to his music...well the odd time. He is a legend though and one of a kind.... Mordeth feck off comparing him to Justin Timberlake

Dr. Dre

What doctor J and IrlirishKev said.

I'm a HUGE fan.
The Alloha from Hawaii Special in '73 looks to be the best concert ever.

Don't like his movies *cringe* but for me there hasn't been/isn't anyone even remotely near him, but that's just my opinion.

[EDIT] Incidently, as far as impersonators go, I do agree that there are some sh*te ones out there, however I would recommend an impersonator named Mark Leen (goes by the stage name 'Emerald Elvis') He really is very very good, he did a tribute to the Alloha concert in the Gleneagles in Killarney a few years ago and it was sensational.

Dr. Loon

Dr. Dre wrote:

I'm a HUGE fan.
The Alloha from Hawaii Special in '73 looks to be the best concert ever.

There's many more concerts out there where he performed better. He was very nervous at that show, and it shows. Even the two concerts used on the That's the way it is DVD have more energy and showmanship in them. There's also an awful lot of footage floating around of different concerts. Very difficult to come across, although I did manage to get his last show on VHS. Quite sad.

irlirishkev

Dr. Loon wrote:

There's many more concerts out there where he performed better. He was very nervous at that show, and it shows. Even the two concerts used on the That's the way it is DVD have more energy and showmanship in them. There's also an awful lot of footage floating around of different concerts. Very difficult to come across, although I did manage to get his last show on VHS. Quite sad.

Ebay is the place to go for live VCD's, from what I've seen.
IMO, his best documented 70's gigs are available (in part) on the 'Elvis On Tour' documentary, from 1972. Fingers crossed this film will get the '68 Special DVD treatment in the near future..

I also have his last concert. It is very sad, but he really does sing his heart out, and the audience never stop appreciating it.
He had it till the end.

Kev.

Dr. Loon

irlirishkev wrote:

IMO, his best documented 70's gigs are available (in part) on the 'Elvis On Tour' documentary, from 1972. Fingers crossed this film will get the '68 Special DVD treatment in the near future..

Yeah, I have the Elvis on Tour stuff as well... must look into eBay

irlirishkev

Dr. Loon wrote:

Yeah, I have the Elvis on Tour stuff as well... must look into eBay

I have the Pittsburgh New Years Eve gig '76/'77, which is up on ebay at the moment

I can recommend this, it's a really good gig, and the film has been overdubbed with a pretty good audience recording, so it's even better.

Kev.

irlirishkev

... Odds are Elvis will be number one this week with One Night. Originally a hit back in 1957.
Last week he was at number one with Jailhouse Rock.

Who would have thought.. 2005, and two Elvis singles in the Top 10.
Not bad..

Kev.

Dr. Dre

irlirishkev wrote:

I have the Pittsburgh New Years Eve gig '76/'77, which is up on ebay at the moment

I can recommend this, it's a really good gig, and the film has been overdubbed with a pretty good audience recording, so it's even better.

Kev.

Hmmm, that one slipped through the net! I don't have that pittsburgh one - I have everything else that has been mentioned - Hawaii still rules the roost for me as far as performances go.
There's some nice backstage footage in that 'Elvis on tour' - love the gospel stuff with the stamps quartet - 'I, John' etc...
Also a nice rendiditon of 'sweet spirit'

irlirishkev

Dr. Dre wrote:

There's some nice backstage footage in that 'Elvis on tour' - love the gospel stuff with the stamps quartet - 'I, John' etc...
Also a nice rendiditon of 'sweet spirit'

Agreed!

egan007

Mordeth wrote:

imagine, in 50 years time after justin timberlake has passed on for whatever reason, your childrens (or indeed, their children) will be watching videos of his performing live on stage (it was electrifying, grandad said.. to see him gyrate his hips so), singing classics like "... I don't actually know the names of any of his songs" etc etc and wondering "this was the king of music for my parents generation?"

elvis was ... a pop star. Just another one of many.

God bless you......lol

You don't seem to realise that Elvis played a 'black mans music' in a USA where the black man was oppressed and was considered a class below all whites.

His music provoked outrage and brought the little white man out screaming for his head - they knew that he was going to change something, they did not know what it was but they were afraid of it.
FEAR FEAR FEAR in the usa - sound familiar;)

Mr Timberpersonality would have to do more than break a few teenagers hearts to be even considered in the same light.

irlirishkev

He's a legend.
When he was alive he was a living legend.

He was an 18 year old boy who stumbled into a world that wasn't ready for him. He set the standards for all those to follow.
He set numerous records in his lifetime, and in death, he continues to do so.

Part of the reason no-one can live up to what he did in his lifetime, is because today, nothing is as shocking as it was back then; and why? It's because Elvis was the first to do it. He broke the mould.

"Before Elvis there was nothing" - John Lennon
"If Jesus Christ is alive and well, then how come John and Elvis are dead" - George Michael

Kevin.

Kingp35

Elvis DID NOT invent rock n roll he simply copied a black mans music so I dunno where you people are getting that from. Plus elvis DID NOT make music he didnt write any of his songs so tell how in the hell he is the king of rock n roll. The king or kareoke maybe!!!

The guy was a good entertainer in his time but that was it an entertainer not a musician. Simply like todays other rubbish artists he was given songs and he sang them simple as that. Im not taking away the fact he had good live shows back in his time but for gods sake people wake up and realise all the guy did was copy someone elses style of music and then copy someone elses songs.

King of rock n roll??? I F***ING DOUBT IT!!!

Dr. Loon

Kingp35 wrote:

The king or kareoke maybe!!!

King of rock n roll??? I F***ING DOUBT IT!!!

The amount of people in the world, including musicians that would disagree with you is amazing. They must all be wrong though. He has influenced generations of songwriters, bands and musicians.

He didn't write all of his own songs fair enough. He was a musician though, and it was an honour for songwriters to have their song sung by Elvis. He was a fúcking superb singer and a great entertainer.

Who do you think the King of Rock 'n' roll is?

BolBill

Dr. Loon wrote:

The amount of people in the world, including musicians that would disagree with you is amazing. They must all be wrong though. He has influenced generations of songwriters, bands and musicians.

He didn't write all of his own songs fair enough. He was a musician though, and it was an honour for songwriters to have their song sung by Elvis. He was a fúcking superb singer and a great entertainer.

Who do you think the King of Rock 'n' roll is?

Agree with you, he was a great singer and entertainer. but listen to the lyrics of "Fight the Power" by Public Enemy, some people have a very different opinion of him

irlirishkev

Kingp35 wrote:

Elvis DID NOT invent rock n roll he simply copied a black mans music so I dunno where you people are getting that from. Plus elvis DID NOT make music he didnt write any of his songs so tell how in the hell he is the king of rock n roll. The king or kareoke maybe!!!

Not all artists write their own songs.
Elvis may not have written songs, but as DrLoon said, he was a musician, and a good one at that. If you need examples, please ask. He also produced a lot of his own material.

Kingp35 wrote:

all the guy did was copy someone elses style of music and then copy someone elses songs

Actually, he didn't copy them, he made them his own. Compare the original Hound Dog to Elvis' version, and then tell me again that he 'copied' it :rolleyes: This applies to most of the songs Elvis covered.

K.

Kingp35

irlirishkev wrote:

Actually, he didn't copy them, he made them his own. Compare the original Hound Dog to Elvis' version, and then tell me again that he 'copied' it :rolleyes: This applies to most of the songs Elvis covered.
K.

Its quite easy to take something that is already there and change it to something else where as coming up with totally new and original material is alot harder.Even if he arguably made some songs better, without the original which he had absolutely nothing to do with, then he would not have been able to do this. So to say Elvis was founder of rock n roll is riculous all he did was change something that already existed.

Dr. Loon wrote:

The amount of people in the world, including musicians that would disagree with you is amazing. They must all be wrong though. He has influenced generations of songwriters, bands and musicians.

He didn't write all of his own songs fair enough. He was a musician though, and it was an honour for songwriters to have their song sung by Elvis. He was a fúcking superb singer and a great entertainer.

Who do you think the King of Rock 'n' roll is?

I dont dispute any of these facts of course he has influenced other artists and I have already said he was an excellent entertainer in his day but fact remains he didnt write his songs he just changed other peoples work. And yes true not all singers write their own songs but real artists do and all the truely great ones do. Elvis never came up with anything truely original and cannot be named the king of rock n roll. There were many rock n roll artists before so to say he invented the genre is also ridiculous.

And finally to answer your question n one is the king of rock n roll!!!

Kingp35

irlirishkev wrote:

Not all artists write their own songs.
K.

oh and kev an artist is someone who creates something new and original so yes all artists do write their own songs. Some singers and entertainers like Frank Sinatra dont.

Swarfboy

Sure enough Elvis was Great and I too love the 68 comeback....
But if you want to talk about Rockn'roll inventor.......look up chuck berry...
Also see even Elvis's comments on Chick Berry.... People know very little of chuck berry but he was the one with the riffs... a true musicans musican.!