N11/N25 - Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour [route options published]

dubhthach

Looks like Leo has pulled the plug on this.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/1101/1224306845607.html

Planned Wexford carriageway shelved
FRANK McDONALD, Environment Editor

THE CONTROVERSIAL dual carriageway planned for south county Wexford, running from Oilgate to Rosslare, has been shelved by Minister for Transport Leo Varadkar.

In a letter to opponents of the route, he said: “Given the budgetary situation, the NRA [National Roads Authority] does not propose to advance this project to the next stage at this time.”

Wexford County Council, which has already paid consultants Mott McDonald €2 million for a route selection report, has yet to be notified officially that the scheme is no longer on the NRA’s agenda.

The Joint Communities Committee, representing people living along the proposed route, said it expected the council would drop the road from the county development plan, now being revised.

A committee spokesman said: “Nothing more will be done on this proposed project for the life of the next county development plan and it is now up to our county councillors to act for the people.”

Michael Carroll told the Wexford Echo newspaper: “We are delighted that the NRA is at last seeing sense in relation to this project”, as the route selection report was “unacceptable”.

It “completely ignores the far cheaper option of upgrading the existing road where necessary” and even made the “farcical and completely unacceptable claim of benefiting traffic congestion in the UK midlands”.

A county council spokesman said the route selection report had been forwarded to the NRA in September, together with a request for approval to provide “appropriate funding” to proceed.

Of the course the guy talking to local newspaper doesn't get it. They aren't going to spend any money upgrading the existing road as there is none.

spacetweek

Since current policy is to shelve everything until our budgetary situation improves, this is non-news.

Also writing a letter to the opponents telling them that they've won is cynical because the real reason is financial; the opponents didn't win anything.

dubhthach

spacetweek wrote: »

Since current policy is to shelve everything until our budgetary situation improves, this is non-news.

Also writing a letter to the opponents telling them that they've won is cynical because the real reason is financial; the opponents didn't win anything.

Indeed I also think it's a bit farcical that Leo told the opponents first before Wexford County Council were informed that it was no longer on the NRA list! Sounds like a bit of political messing if you ask me.

jd

Carroll says the report

even made the “farcical and completely unacceptable claim of benefiting traffic congestion in the UK midlands”.

That's not what is said. It said that traffic from the South and East that use the Rosslare-Wales ferry routes avoid having to use Dublin Port and also avoid congested midland routes in the UK.

Nor does it totally ignore

the option of upgrading the existing road where necessary

Looking at section 6:1 on , do-nothing, do-minimum and management options are considered.

Sponge Bob

The preferred route will probably go to a confirmation vote in the council and will then be inserted in the County Development plan to protect the alignment. However I cannot see any detailed design or EIS underway for a loooooong time.

The Wexford County Manager is on the board of the NRA is he not, I'm sure he knew ages ago. Just wait till they drop the Enniscorthy Bypass or push it back to 2018 or so next week in the capital programme.

And yet Leo will find cash for projects NOT in any national programme such as misc.3 lane widenings in Dublin...mark my words.

jd

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/01/12/00018.asp

Deputy Mick Wallace asked the Minister for Transport; Tourism and Sport if he is concerned that there are a number of serious inaccuracies (details supplied) in the Route Selection Report for the proposed Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour, County Wexford road upgrade project; the action he proposes to correct these inaccuracies in a report which fails to justify the proposed project, which has so far cost the taxpayer in excess of €2 million; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [41465/11]

Deputy Leo Varadkar: This question relates to the route selection report for the Oilgate to Rosslare roads scheme. As Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, I have responsibility for overall policy and funding of the national roads programme. The planning, design and implementation of individual road projects is a matter for the National Roads Authority under the Roads Acts 1993 to 2007 in conjunction with the local authorities concerned. Therefore, this not a matter in which I have a role. Rather it is a matter for the NRA and I will ask the NRA to write directly to the Deputy in regard to the route selection report. If he does not receive a reply within ten days he should contact my office on the matter.

As I have indicated previously to the Deputy, the Oilgate to Rosslare scheme is one of a range of projects which have reached the route corridor selection phase but cannot proceed to construction for some time given the current difficult economic environment. When the project can be progressed it will be subject to approval by An Bord Pleanála.

Deputy Mick Wallace: I am not much the wiser having heard that reply. As Minister with responsibility for transport, it would great if the Minister had a little more control over the NRA than the previous Minister had. I do not understand the position if it is the case that the legislation does not allow Minister to have more impact in these decisions. Many of the decisions made by the NRA indicate that it seems keen to spend money a good deal of the time but we cannot afford it any more. We have been talking about the impact of severe cuts on people who need our help in this House during the past few months and the notion that roads would be built is a little over the top given the state of our finances. The Minister with responsibility for transport needs to have an impact in this respect and the decision should not be left with the NRA.

We pointed out to the Minister that it is claimed in the report that the project will benefit traffic congestion in the UK midlands - that is off the wall. It is claimed that the existing road is unsafe, which is completely true. It is a good road to travel on. I have travelled on it a good deal, probably as much as anyone. The traffic volumes on it are not bad. The road is fine. Wexford town is already bypassed and it does not need to be bypassed again. We do not need a bypass on the bypass. The traffic volumes that were assessed for the project do not bear up to scrutiny.

Deputy Leo Varadkar: The Minister does have a certain role in this regard in the sense that it is the Minister’s role to set policy, allocate budgets and oversee corporate governance. In this regard, the decision is not to spend additional moneys on this road for the time being because the money is not available to complete the project. Therefore, it does not make sense to spend further millions just to bring it from one stage of planning to the next.

I have changed the policy of the previous Government which was to spend hundreds of millions of euro planning and designing projects without knowing whether it could afford to build them. I am only proceeding with planning and design where we know that we can afford to build the project, and that is not the case at present. However, it is also my policy position that we should not stop planning for the future. Rosslare is a very large port with great potential. It makes sense that at some point in the future, and it may be the distant future, Rosslare should be connected by a high quality road to the motorway network, which is not the case at present. The road is adequate at present for the port that is there. I visited the port in recent months to see for myself. However, if Rosslare Port were to be expanded as a major port on the east coast in the future, it would require a better road connection. That is why it is important to plan for the future in this regard.

The route selection report, to which the Deputy referred, is available on Wexford County Council’s website. I believe the Deputy is mischaracterising it to the extent that what it argues is that Rosslare could be used as a port in the future to access the east coast of Ireland as an alternative to Dublin Port, thus allowing heavy vehicles to avoid the congestion that already exists in the UK midlands, it is not that the road would be built so that people could avoid that. It recognises the fact that there is a good deal of congestion in the UK midlands and it might make sense to develop another port on the east coast of Ireland so that heavy goods vehicles could come that way rather than having to go through the middle of England.

Deputy Mick Wallace: There is potential to develop the existing road to meet the requirements of Rosslare Harbour, if it were developed into a serious port at some point in the future, but in the meantime the notion of freezing the 300 m corridor along it and affecting all the people who have businesses there does not make sense. These people are affected by this decision. For example, a vegetable farmer has lost a grant of €150,000 to build more sheds - his enterprise is labour intensive. Jobs will be lost by freezing the land where that farmer is working. If Rosslare becomes a big port, this corridor may be needed eventually and the Minister has said that this is planning for the future. He might be planning for what will happen in 50 years time but in the meantime he is freezing land on people who are living in the present.

Deputy Leo Varadkar: I am conscious of the planning issue the Deputy raised, “planning blight” as it is described in other jurisdictions. The NRA has issued new guidelines to local authorities in the past few weeks giving them the criteria under which they could allow development to occur in these corridors, as in the case of developments such as agricultural sheds. Development in these route corridors is a decision of the planning authority, not the NRA. I would ask local authorities to take a pragmatic view when it comes to development in route corridors. There is a big difference between potting sheds or greenhouses and building a supermarket. Local authorities need to be pragmatic about that.

It is important to plan for the future. The Harcourt Street train line was closed for 30 or 40 years. I am glad it was not developed because if it had been we would not have had the Luas. The Dunboyne reservation and the reservation out to Navan was retained for the best part of 50 years and it is now coming back into use. One could say the same in regard to Midleton. It makes sense sometimes to maintain corridors.

Deputy Mick Wallace: Something like that is fine but this is a different scenario

Schadenfreudia

"Enniscorthy bypass work to start next September"

independent.ie/regionals

spacetweek

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

"Enniscorthy bypass work to start next September"

independent.ie/regionals

Not this project.

Schadenfreudia

No cigar, eh?

vicwatson

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

"Enniscorthy bypass work to start next September"

independent.ie/regionals

That's correct according to Wexford People, and the €341 million project will be in use by Q3 2018 (apparentely !)

spacetweek

vicwatson wrote: »

That's correct according to Wexford People, and the €341 million project will be in use by Q3 2018 (apparentely !)

As I said, the right thread to talk about the Enniscorthy Bypass is here.

PoolDude

I wonder will Oilgate to Rosslare come back on the radar once the Enniscorthy bypass work commences construction. I believe Brendan Howlin has said there will be continuous bypasses from Larne to Oilgate by 2017 and Joan Bruton has referenced motorway from Belfast to Rosslare again recently, i.e. Euroroute 1.

Interesting to see how this one develops of if it is left on the shelf. I doubt much will be done ahead of the election as it would be a divisive topic for politicians to manage.

Geogregor

PoolDude wrote: »

I wonder will Oilgate to Rosslare come back on the radar once the Enniscorthy bypass work commences construction. I believe Brendan Howlin has said there will be continuous bypasses from Larne to Oilgate by 2017 and Joan Bruton has referenced motorway from Belfast to Rosslare again recently, i.e. Euroroute 1.

Interesting to see how this one develops of if it is left on the shelf. I doubt much will be done ahead of the election as it would be a divisive topic for politicians to manage.

I don't think there is any need for motorway or even dual carriageway there.
What are the traffic levels there? Few thousands AADT? Pretty much only ferry traffic and a few locals.

There are many more important road projects in Ireland.

jd

Geogregor wrote: »

I don't think there is any need for motorway or even dual carriageway there.
What are the traffic levels there? Few thousands AADT? Pretty much only ferry traffic and a few locals.

There are many more important road projects in Ireland.

From the NRA web site


1112

N11 Between Ferrycarrig and Oilgate, Co. Wexford

2015 2014 2013
AADT 11922 12497 12351
% HGV 5.2% 5.2% 5.3%



N25 Southwest of Rosslare Harbour, Kilraine Co. Wexford

2015 2014 2013
AADT 5096 5859 5854
% HGV 9.0% 7.7% 7.2%
Coverage 23.8% 99.7% 83.5%

VR6

PoolDude wrote: »

I wonder will Oilgate to Rosslare come back on the radar once the Enniscorthy bypass work commences construction. I believe Brendan Howlin has said there will be continuous bypasses from Larne to Oilgate by 2017 and Joan Bruton has referenced motorway from Belfast to Rosslare again recently, i.e. Euroroute 1.

Interesting to see how this one develops of if it is left on the shelf. I doubt much will be done ahead of the election as it would be a divisive topic for politicians to manage.

Weasel words once again from the government.

There may well be continuous bypasses from Larne to Oylegate in 2017, but the last of these - the Enniscorthy bypass - will certainly not open for traffic by then. Even if it does start on schedule this summer it will only be 18 months into contract on the 31st of December 2017.
Not credible

Carawaystick

There's no bypass of Kilmacanogue, and none planned.

Schadenfreudia

Carawaystick wrote: »

There's no bypass of Kilmacanogue, and none planned.

I wonder if the cheapest solution there would be to buy up all the properties along the eastern carriageway through Kilmac, demolish them and build a proper (safe) road to the east of the existing median?

spacetweek

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

I wonder if the cheapest solution there would be to buy up all the properties along the eastern carriageway through Kilmac, demolish them and build a proper (safe) road to the east of the existing median?

You know, it probably would.

Carawaystick

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

I wonder if the cheapest solution there would be

What do you think the problem is?
is it peak time traffic?
egress from garages?
bus stops?

Reuben1210

Carawaystick wrote: »

What do you think the problem is?
is it peak time traffic?
egress from garages?
bus stops?

All of the above, and the fact the road was terribly designed there....it was acceptable at the time vis a vis standards. It has now become a huge headache for commuters, and future upgrading. Don't want to moan too much about how the country runs, as there is enough on this...but this was seriously short term thinking/planning

Schadenfreudia

Carawaystick wrote: »

What do you think the problem is?
is it peak time traffic?
egress from garages?
bus stops?

All of the above!

Just noticed Reuben beat me to it!

jd

VR6 wrote: »

Weasel words once again from the government.

Even if it does start on schedule this summer it will only be 18 months into contract on the 31st of December 2017.
Not credible

It's 2015 today - if it started in September 2015 it would be 27 months into contract on December 31st 2017 .

PoolDude

As expected, despite recent contract signings for the Enniscorthy bypass, I have seen little reference in the quotes to this scheme. The question needs to be answered on whether they plan to proceed or how they intend to deal with a Motorway stretch that will now end 1km from a small village which will likely create a new bottleneck.

Logic would imply they either need to extend scope to include Oilgate bypass or commit to the Oilgate Rosslare scheme but the silence is deafening ðŸ˜

Carawaystick

How did Camolin fare?

jd

Carawaystick wrote: »

How did Camolin fare?

Motorway from Coynes Cross to north of Oylegate when the Enniscorthy By-pass is finished

guylikeme

PoolDude wrote: »

As expected, despite recent contract signings for the Enniscorthy bypass, I have seen little reference in the quotes to this scheme. The question needs to be answered on whether they plan to proceed or how they intend to deal with a Motorway stretch that will now end 1km from a small village which will likely create a new bottleneck.

Logic would imply they either need to extend scope to include Oilgate bypass or commit to the Oilgate Rosslare scheme but the silence is deafening ðŸ˜

Is oilgate really that big a bottleneck? Even with the road, a good amount of the enniscorthy bypass traffic will be just crossing the Slaney or going onto new Ross.

Traffic counts are very low that area.

Roryhy

guylikeme wrote: »

Is oilgate really that big a bottleneck? Even with the road, a good amount of the enniscorthy bypass traffic will be just crossing the Slaney or going onto new Ross.

Traffic counts are very low that area.

That's what I was thinking, never recall seeing a tailback in Oilgate!

Carawaystick

That was kind of my point re Camolin, which is a bigger village than Oilgate and is the existing first place after the motorway ends.

PoolDude

Fair Point - Camolin is definitely worse than it was but isn't bad in fairness.

Hopefully the same will true of Oilgate. My perspective would be that Oilgate to Rosslare may not have the volumes to warrant development and if so, rather than fudge the issue for political reasons or shortsightedness, why not bring the Enniscorthy bypass to the Wexford side of Oilgate and leave it at that. I know at this point its too late but this should have been addressed at the design and route selection phase.

L1011

The hope would probably be for EU funded for Oilgate-Rosslare now. The route selection and design was done where there was money and an intent to do O-R shortly after so there is no reason they would have considered it.