N11/N25 - Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour [route options published]

mcgeebers

For some reason the NRA website recently re-listed nearly all open (and not yet commenced) projects across the 26 counties as June 2010?!

Wild Bill

ForiegnNational wrote: »

Out of interest, does the NRA ever update it's website?l

Simple answer - no.

And I've written to them about it and might as well have have had a conversation with the cat. No reply; no updating. :mad:

spacetweek

mcgeebers wrote: »

For some reason the NRA website recently re-listed nearly all open (and not yet commenced) projects across the 26 counties as June 2010?!

There's been so much schedule slippage and changing that I get the impression they've stopped trying to keep up. I've been maintaining a personal list based on announcements and Boards though

road_high

I really think this project has slim enough chance of being built anytime soon without the locals kicking up a fuss. This would be of enormous benefit to Wexford economically and make it a far more attractive place to do business.

Amtmann

Not sure if this has been previously posted, but the constraints study is here: http://www.wexford.ie/ConstraintsStudy/Constraints%20Study%20Rev%20B/Constraints%20Study%20Report%20Part%20A%20Rev%20B.pdf

jd

From todays Wexford People

http://http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/

...
In its newsletter of July
23. the Chamber strongly
opposed the controversial
development saying it
would have `a detrimental
effect on the entire busi-
ness conununity situated
in the town of Wexford?
However. five days later,
on July 28, in another
newsletter. it came out
strongly in favour of the
road. maintaining that it
’Will reduce costs and
increase competitiveness
for Wexford businesses operating
both nationally and international-
ly’...
’The article which 'first appeared
in the Chambers e-zine to mem-
bers, reflected early feedback
received from members and as
such only presented a small part of
the views of a diverse business
community in Wexfordl it said....

It looks like the article last week carried the views of some of Wexford's shopkeepers, who are worried that improved roads will make it more convenient for town residents to shop elsewhere!!

Opposition mounts in Piercestown

THE Piercestown committee objecting to the proposed Oylegate-Rosslare motorway are calling on the National Roads Authority ‘ to see sense’ and withdraw the proposal...

Lorcan O'Shea points out that the existing road is well capable of dealing with the traffic currently on it and he, along with the others, sees no reason why the current road can't be upgraded, at far less cost and causing far less disruption.
...

The NRA last week, when asked, did not confirm that a motorway-scale road is planned, but the committee note that all indications from the public consultation process to date point to a motorway being built along a new route.
...

Pete_Cavan

The NRA should compile a report examining the commercial benefits experienced by towns that have bypassed (with proper motorway or duel carriageway, not some crappy ring road) compared to what the town was like when it was jammed with traffic. I have no doubt the report will show that towns experience huge economic benefits when they are bypassed. They should make the report good and thick and heavy and then use it to beat anyone who objects their town being bypassed on the grounds that it will destroy business in the town.

mcgeebers

The whole idea of this motorway, and completion of the N11 and N25 motorway / dual carriageway corridor, is to increase the amount of commercial traffic using the port of Rosslare. Businesses simply will not use Rosslare if they can't predict with accuracy the journey time involved, which will be the case if these towns aren't bypassed.

Wild Bill

Welcome to the page that nobody visits when they toss about the pros and cons of the Enniscorthy bypass(s).

So I'm gonna say it straight: New Ross to Enniscorthy and the M11 past Enniscorthy to Oilgate is a way higher priority than the M20. :cool:

123easy

Wild Bill wrote: »

So I'm gonna say it straight: New Ross to Enniscorthy and the M11 past Enniscorthy to Oilgate is a way higher priority than the M20. :cool:

...in the eyes of the NRA board

Chris_5339762

I'm not going to comment (much) although I do feel linking Ireland second and third biggest cities and replacing what is a disgraceful cart track some of which hasnt been realigned since the late 1800s should be more of a priority than an unnecessary motorway linking a town that should never have gotten a motorway bypass itself with a small regional port.

If ye want to go on about how important the ports are look no further than the cancelled upgrade of the N28; getting a proper link from Ringaskiddy to Cork is way more important than building a motorway to Rosslare

I will say no more for now

mcgeebers

The N11/M11 and M20 are being afforded the same priority according to the most recent Government pronouncements, if we are to believe them.

The M20 should of course be prioritised

invinciblePRSTV

Wild Bill wrote: »

So I'm gonna say it straight: New Ross to Enniscorthy and the M11 past Enniscorthy to Oilgate is a way higher priority than the M20. :cool:

Yup, building a white elephant motorway to a port in terminal decline rather then linking 2 of the larger urban areas in the state makes sense. Keep on believing.

mcgeebers

These projects are all going to be done so not sure why you're getting so excited. I never indicated a preference. I see them all as part of the same strategy, namely opening up Rosslare to increased commercial traffic with reliable journey times, both via the Atlantic Corridor (N25, M20, etc.) and the east coast (N11). No better time than now when labour and materials are so cheap.

The real pity is that we're not investing in an electricity connector between Ireland and mainland Europe to sort out the exorbitant prices both the general public and business is having to pay.

invinciblePRSTV

mcgeebers wrote: »

These projects are all going to be done so not sure why you're getting so excited. I never indicated a preference. I see them all as part of the same strategy, namely opening up Rosslare to increased commercial traffic with reliable journey times, both via the Atlantic Corridor (N25, M20, etc.) and the east coast (N11). No better time than now when labour and materials are so cheap.

why should the state pay billions to build a road to a port whose facilities can and are replicated closer to the large urban areas? whatever characteristics Rosslare might have Dublin, Cork & other urban ports are better located, nearer the factories with stuff we export and closer to the potential consumers who might use passenger ferry services.

As mentioned by Chris, if we're building motorways to stimulate trade at ports then the best possible candidate is Cork port & the N28 upgrade which would have a dual purpose of building a much needed commuter road as well.

I don't really think the N28 should be prioritised above the M20 but neither should the N/M11!

Sponge Bob

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

As mentioned by Chris, if we're building motorways to stimulate trade at ports then the best possible candidate is Cork port & the N28 upgrade which would have a dual purpose of building a much needed commuter road as well.

I don't really think the N28 should be prioritised above the M20 but neither should the N/M11!

Quite correct. M20 is the most important. I cannot really come down for the N28 or N11 otherwise.

Certainly Rosslare was very important ( pre Ryanair) but has declined in the past 20 years. However the government may have some deal inked with Stormont on a Larne to Rosslare dualler and may therefore be forced to pretend to deliver this .....even if only by appointing consultants and preparing BS reports on schemes south of Gorey if nothing else. Typical Dempsey crap.

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/transport/current/spt.pdf

Table 9

Total Goods Handled 16,958 14,305 2,747 5,913 1,957 41,880

Cork 1,315 3,095 1,754 1,045 759 7,968
Dublin 11,618 5,620 634 565 169 18,606

then

Rosslare 1,783 546 - - - 2,328
Shannon Foynes Port 1,059 2,114 189 3,773 442 7,577
Waterford 117 1,386 43 85 - 1,631

Table 10

This shows Rosslare and Dublin do all the Ro Ro traffic with Dublin 3x the size of Rosslare. Cork is easily the main Liquid Bulk port.

Cork would be all of the estuary not just Ringaskiddy and including the oil refinery.

Same data from 2005, table 10 in 2009 = Table 11 2005. Rosslare was marginally relatively more important for roro than Dublin then ( not much change ) but Cork has shrunk more than Rosslare since then

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/transport/2005/spt_2005.pdf

I can't decide

luohaoran

I'd imagine most sea freight to the European mainland would be shipped through Rosslare, assuming most of the manufacturing output is generated in the greater Dublin area. So the need for motorway between Dublin and Rosslare is conspicuous. (not talking about UK or US based freight in this instance obviously, where you'd use Dublin airport and port)

Equally conspicuous is the need to create a secondary business hub around Limerick, Galway, Cork, with good access to Cork harbour, Shannon and Cork airports. Not to mention good access betweens these cities for services business to grow.
Without this Dublin will remain the only focus for growth on the island, and I don't believe those in Dublin want this anymore than those living around the country.

We need both. Asap.

Wild Bill

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Yup, building a white elephant motorway to a port in terminal decline rather then linking 2 of the larger urban areas in the state makes sense. Keep on believing.

Arragh come on! Building a road from Dublin to anywhere means the combined population at both ends dwarfs any other two locations! Limerick to Cork? Nowhere near Tallaght to Sandyford. :cool:

OK - I'm joking guys - chillax. It's the Divil in me.

invinciblePRSTV

Wild Bill wrote: »

Arragh come on! Building a road from Dublin to anywhere means the combined population at both ends dwarfs any other two locations! Limerick to Cork? Nowhere near Tallaght to Sandyford. :cool:

OK - I'm joking guys - chillax. It's the Divil in me.

Strange sense of humour you appear to have.

Wild Bill

Like beauty - it is (or isn't) - in the eye of the beholder. But much truth is revealed in jest I guess.

I'd not describe the Dublin-Rosslare motorway proposal as a "white elephant". Let's put it no stronger than that. :cool:

123easy

The traffic volumes south of Gorey speak for themselves period. (as the yank from the NRA would say!)

jd

A bit out of date, but traffic volumes for most of the 2 schemes.
|2005Traffic Data||
|Route N25 Rosslare Hrbr - Wexford - New Ross - Waterford - Cork||
|||
|1 Wxfrd 409 RLY BRIDGE ROSSLARE HARB 6667 89 0||
|2 Wxfrd 801 JN R736 @ TAGOAT 6225 75 1||
|3 Wxfrd 218 JN R739 TO TOMHAGGARD/KILMORE QUAY9045 68 1||
|||
|Enter Wexford Bypass |Route N11 - Wexford - Enniscorthy - Arklow - Dublin|
|4 Wxfrd 389 RO WITH R730 TO WEXFORD 7922 160 0 ||
|5 Wxfrd 190 RO WITH R733 @ CLONARD 10816 98 2 |Start of Route : Ballindinas|
|6 Wxfrd 349 RO WITH N11 AND R769 10161 75 1 ->|3 Wxfrd 646 RO @ NEWTOWN MEET N25 12272 105 1|
||4 Wxfrd 1222 JN MINOR RD TO CASTLE-BR 11696 112 0|
|End Wexford Bypass ||
|7 Wxfrd 064 LARKINS CROSS ROAD 7744 187 0 |Enter Enniscorthy|
|8 Wxfrd 994 Y LEFT R738 TO TAGHMON 6895 135 3|5A Wxfrd 048 30 SL S ENNISCORTHY 11364 113 1|
||5B Wxfrd 006 SEAMAS RAFTER BRIDGE 17369 75 2|
||5C Wxfrd 016 ON ABBEY QUAY 15764 75 1|
||5D Wxfrd 008 ON OLD BRIDGE 14943 85 0|
||5E Wxfrd 021 ON SHANNON QUAY 13029 80 0|
||6 Wxfrd 153 JN WITH OLD BRIDGE 15001 90 2|
||End Enniscorthy|
|||
||7 Wxfrd 345 RO TO R890 & DUFFRY 14635 113 1|
||8 Wxfrd 654 JN TO BUNCLODY N80 9544 101 0|
|||
||Enter Ferns|
||9 Wxfrd 1627 JN R745 IN FRENS TC 7682 113 5|
||End Ferns|


More current data for N25
Traffic Counter Data for "Rosslare N25-1" in year 2009, based on*341*days recorded data
Average Daily Volumes in 2009 (both directions combined)
N25 immediately east of Kilrane (IG: 312812E 111355N)

|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sep|Oct|Nov|Dec|
|5237|5543|6160|6867| |7354|8206|8705|6915|6141|5290|5225|

Traffic Counter Data for "Carrigbyrne N25-10" in year 2009, based on*364*days recorded data
Average Daily Volumes in 2009 (both directions combined)
N25 east of Ballynabola (IG: 282602E 123801N)

|Jan|Feb|Mar|Apr|May|Jun|Jul|Aug|Sep|Oct|Nov|Dec|
|6466|6855|7225|7435|7619|7682|7962|8134|8003|7440|6925|6338|

Wild Bill

In a nutshell that seems to suggest about 6,000 per day on the N25 through County Wexford and about 12,000 on the N11 from the N80 junction south to Wexford town, is that a about right? (With much lager volumes through Enniscorthy itself, say 15,000+)

spacetweek

mcgeebers wrote: »

The real pity is that we're not investing in an electricity connector between Ireland and mainland Europe to sort out the exorbitant prices both the general public and business is having to pay.

Sorry for OT but aren't we getting one of these to Wales?

jd

From the Wexford People

COMMUNITIES who had been united against the Rosslare to Oylegate motorway are now going it alone, with some already backing routes that cut through the parishes of their former friends.
An umbrella group, representing communities against the proposed new motorway, held its first meeting just last July, with Miles Deas, a member of the Barntown committee, elected as its chairman.
...
The main argument put forward by the joint committee has been that a motorway is not needed
...
correspondence from the NRA and County Manager Eddie Breen has made it abundantly clear that this is not an option and the motorway will proceed as planned.
...
Barntown is now pushing route H, which cuts through Cleariestown and Murrintown. The Crossabeg committee is also in favour of this option, as it is the only route not running through the parish.
...
Wexford County Council County Manager Eddie Breen said the preferred route will be announced at the end of this year.

Bodan

jd wrote: »

From the Wexford People

it sounds like they are a bunch of NIMBY's . They only care about their own personal situation rather than the benefits it will bring to the whole community and visitors to their area.

HouseMartins

I see the NRA have changed their status on Oilgate to Rosslare road to Route Selection, last week it was Constraints Study!!!! So does this mean we will finally hear which route!!! :rolleyes:

NRA, i know u have some1 keeping an eye on these boards!!! So just put us out of our misery please!!! 6 mths is along time to wait!!! You're going to get **** what ever the route, so stop sticking your heads in the sand!!! You know the route, so just tell us!! :mad:
AA89AE35-F3D9-5783-1C12-0958E7C3B8DF
1.02.28

Nuttzz

The county manager is also a member of the NRA board
http://www.nra.ie/AboutUs/BoardMembers/

They have little hope of opposing it

Wild Bill

There should be something built into the planning process to detect Nimbys from "genuine" objectors (such as crazed Greens). Now that the slow emergence of a preferred route is exposing these Oilgate Nimbys for what they are, their objections should be disallowed en masse. :cool:

jd

The various groups opposing the motorway have a web site
http://www.motorwayaction.info/

The figures they are giving are 1 billion total (I presume total cost over the life time of the PPP)

Also they are making claims that a new motorway would be less safe than the existing road !
"Health & Safety
The existing N11/N25 Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour road has an excellent safety record. Upgrading or building a larger road in it's place will result in a much lower safety rating."

I'll look at the site again when I can