N11/N25 - Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour [route options published]

gym_mom

first 5 here

gym_mom

rest here

Official documents from Wexford Co Council Road section

gym_mom

can't post key for documents for some reason, might be too big.

jd

I think they are probably going for a 2+2 , based on the new bridge at Ferrycarrig...

mac.the.hat

For the record, there has been no mention of upgrading the existing road. It will most likely be a new road (dual carriageway or motorway) running parallel with the existing road. It will cut off a number of businesses that depend on passing trade. It will also affect more people than is initially apparent. There is also a huge question mark over the exit at the Whitford Roundabout. they are not guaranteeing it.

dubhthach

mac.the.hat wrote: »

It will cut off a number of businesses that depend on passing trade.

National routes aren't there to provide passing business to businesses. They are for getting traffic quickly and safely from one destination to another.

dubhthach

gym_mom wrote: »

first 5 here

Thanks for that looking at that map most of the proposed uproute subsumes the existing route with a number of diversions to bypass the following:

• Oilgate
• Ferrycarrig -- new bridge
• New alignment of N25 from near end of Wexford bypass

jd

gym_mom wrote: »

can't post key for documents for some reason, might be too big.

It may post if you zip it first.

Wild Bill

Good stuff!

Let's just get on and build it

Safety first - upgrading the existing road is both daft and dangerous.

jd

Cllr Joe Ryan posted this pic of route

http://twitpic.com/5okvkt/full

jd

Wexford Co Co have updated their web site
http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/Roads/NationalRoadsLiaisonOffice/OilgateRosslareHarbourProject/DetailedMapsOfOilgatetoRosslare/

Also

Proposed Road Type & Access

The cross-section and proposed road type for the N11/N25 Oilgate to
Rosslare Harbour Scheme will be decided at the Design Phase.
In determining the cross-section, a number of factors will be considered
including predicted traffic volumes, consistency of alignment with adjacent
schemes, safety considerations, scheme specific issues (e.g. topography,
ground conditions), access requirements/restrictions, cost, road safety and
Government strategy and policy objectives.

Non-national roads intersected or met by the proposed route may either be
bridged over or under or may have access restricted. Junction numbers and
type will not be finalised until the Design Phase and those shown are
preliminary and are subject to change.

spacetweek

Certainly looks online to me. If they do, it'll be unusual for Ireland these days.

jd

Been away, so not been keeping up to date on this. As as I've said before I'm not convinced of the need for a motorway, with 2+2 perhaps what is needed. That been said, I cannot agree that national roads should go through villages (Oylegate/Tagoat/Kilrane), which seems to be the position of those against the scheme, presumably as they feel it will affect shops and petrol stations. I think someone also said this scheme will kill off Wexford Town, and that bypasses destroyed Arklow, Drogheda and some other towns, but no evidence is supplied to back this up. The Rosslare section of the route was agreed without much opposition years ago.

Irish and Proud

jd wrote: »

Been away, so not been keeping up to date on this. As as I've said before I'm not convinced of the need for a motorway, with 2+2 perhaps what is needed. That been said, I cannot agree that national roads should go through villages (Oylegate/Tagoat/Kilrane), which seems to be the position of those against the scheme, presumably as they feel it will affect shops and petrol stations. I think someone also said this scheme will kill off Wexford Town, and that bypasses destroyed Arklow, Drogheda and some other towns, but no evidence is supplied to back this up. The Rosslare section of the route was agreed without much opposition years ago.

+1

The purpose of a National Road is to get people from one strategic part of the country to another such as Dublin to Rosslare. National Roads were traditionally routed via the large towns in order to serve a larger catchment. However, the basic principle still remains: getting people from A to B quickly and safely.

If towns/villages want business, it is up to them to compete for business rather than reaping the benefits of a captive audience - such conditions were frequently abused by way of high prices and poor services that motorists experienced en-route (the impression I get by some previous posts on this forum).

In short, no town or community has the right to force the motorists to travel a certain way - especially for private local gain. This to me is a violation of civil rights - as a motorist, I simply don't see why I should be denied the freedom of a bypass (thereby forcing me through a congested town) just because certain locals want my €€€s - this is simply not fair!!!

thedarkroom

jd wrote: »

Been away, so not been keeping up to date on this. As as I've said before I'm not convinced of the need for a motorway, with 2+2 perhaps what is needed. That been said, I cannot agree that national roads should go through villages (Oylegate/Tagoat/Kilrane), which seems to be the position of those against the scheme, presumably as they feel it will affect shops and petrol stations. I think someone also said this scheme will kill off Wexford Town, and that bypasses destroyed Arklow, Drogheda and some other towns, but no evidence is supplied to back this up. The Rosslare section of the route was agreed without much opposition years ago.

It's hardly likely that this scheme will kill off Wexford town as any traffic going to Roslare is already bypassing it anyway using the road through Enniscorthy. Major roadways should not be routed through towns and villages as it creates a physical division which fractures communities. Look at what the N11 does to Kilmacanogue!
Arklow actually thrived for a while after the bypass was opened but it's downfall was the opening of the new shopping centre on the quays as it took all the shoppers away from the town centre and away from the existing shops. Arklow's Main Street is now an access route to the new shopping centre. Arklow died because of bad planning and interference by the councillors, not because of the bypass. Gorey, similarly, benefitted when the bypass was built but suffered when the new shopping centre was built.

Jayuu

I think everybody knows there is no substance to the "bypasses destroy businesses" argument. I've never seen one report which backs this argument up. Most towns are pretty happy to get rid of vast amounts of traffic, especially large vehicles and I would imagine that this route has a significant amount of those heading to and from Rosslare. Also in this particular case realistically most traffic using this road will either be Rosslare bound and are unlikely to stop that close to Rosslare, or have just come from Rosslare and are again unlikely to stop so soon after starting their journey so again I think this undermines the "loss of business argument". Wexford is already bypaseed at this stage so the upgrade is going to make very little difference in that case.

I can appreciate that any road building exercise will always cause upheaval and there will always be somebody who loses out in these cases and here I suppose the people who are on the selected route will end up in somewhat of a limbo, which is unfortunate. However if route selection is completed then more people will be freed up from the process and able to get on with their lives.

(BTW, as it turns out I think I know the man who is chair of the local anti-road group, but don't hold that against me)

jd

Interesting report from The Echo. Peter Sweetman made the trip from Rossport, and local Councillor Padge Reck is as combative as ever though he's not standing for election again.

http://www.enniscorthyecho.ie/news/eyausneycw/

Councillors lambasted at motorway meeting

AS FAR as perfectly-timed pantomime ripostes go, it was up there with “he’s behind you”.

When Labour councillor George Lawlor told a public meeting that it was impossible to stop the Oylegate to Rosslare motorway, a member of the crowd was quick to disagree.

“[Oh no] it’s not impossible to stop motorways. I’ve stopped three,” said a modest Peter Sweetman, whose antipathy to motorways can be traced back to the NRA routing a bypass through his back garden in Kill many moons ago.

..
While Mr Sweetman decried various motorway projects as rackets that “keep foreign consultants in business” there was nobody in attendance to defend the scheme because the county manager, the NRA liaison officer, the county council chairman and local TDs were unavailable.

Instead, six county councillors, four of whom huddled together at the top of the packed function room in the Riverbank Hotel, and one borough councillor, took all of the flack.

..


While the ill-concealed contempt from local people affected by the motorway scheme was hardly surprising, the tirade of abuse from the local priest was.

“These councillors are telling us that this road is essential but that it may not be built for 30 years. There’s a contradiction there.

“They have not thought about the health hazard being caused by this. My own brother was affected when the Gorey bypass went through his land and he was in a half-mental state over it.

..


Never backward at coming forward, Independent councillor Padge Reck decided the crowd needed to hear a few home truths.

“I’ve been a public representative for 33 years and I listen to the people but only four people have contacted me personally about this road,” he said, to a chorus of boos.

“You’re not living in the real world,” shouted Mr Sweetman, a verbal jibe that had the same effect as poking an angry grizzly bear with a big stick.

“You’ve had your opportunity to speak and, as far as I can tell, you’re an expert on everything. I am nobody’s fool and I don’t kow-tow to anyone.

“Now, when the Waterford bypass was announced I was lambasted by about 70 or 80 people who told me I was useless and Waterford was stealing a march on Wexford.

..
Declaring that he didn’t come to the meeting to “have people sniping at me”, Mr Reck said threats that the JCC would stand candidates in the next local elections didn’t bother him.

“Put up your candidates, we’ll all watch and see. Maybe you’ll learn something,” he scoffed.

..
Meanwhile, JCC Chairman Michael Carroll informed the crowd that the main justifications for the scheme, increased traffic projections and the development of Rosslare Europort, were both non runners.

..

He said the port made a profit of €67 million between 1987 and 2009 and said the cost of dredging and underpinning just one berth in the harbour, to allow larger ships use the port, would amount to between €40 and €50 million.

Attempting to assuage concerns, Paul McCormack, whose house near the Heritage Park could be wiped out if the scheme goes ahead, said the road cannot be built as there is no legal basis for it.

“It can only be built in accordance with the law and the law says there must be a need for it and there isn’t.
..

Amtmann

What three motorways did Sweetman stop?

dubhthach

Tremelo wrote: »

What three motorways did Sweetman stop?

Obviously not the one through his backyard in Kill -- I'm assuming the N7 dualler/tri-carriageway

L1011

Tremelo wrote: »

What three motorways did Sweetman stop?

Three in his mind.

He has, at best, delayed a dual carriageway in Galway for long enough that its not going to be built and otherwise just cost the state millions before the roads actually *did* get built.

Surprised to not see our main anti O->R protestor on here's name mentioned.

spacetweek

Sweetman's probably referring to the Slane bypass too. He hasn't stopped it. Since it's shovel-ready, it likely would have started next year if not for the spending freeze.

L1011

He didn't stop it and its not a motorway, despite the grand insistances on here that it'll be made one by people who don't understand what a Type 2 is.

Can't let dreamers get credit.

spacetweek

MYOB wrote: »

He didn't stop it and its not a motorway, despite the grand insistances on here that it'll be made one by people who don't understand what a Type 2 is.

Can't let dreamers get credit.

Oh I know well it wasn't one, but it's common in Ireland for people to call something a motorway even when it's just a few KM's of dual.

Now that I recall, Slane was Salafia actually.

Slane Resident

Neither Sweetman nor Salafia have stopped the Slane Bypass, and the hope is that funding may still be found for it. Shane McEntee certainly doesn't seem to be of the impression that it's a "done deal" that it won't be built, and Varadkar hasn't confirmed that it has been cancelled. They say that the priority for road building now will be safety rather than traffic, and as such Slane has got to be the most needed road in the country.

As for Sweetman, he stated at the ABP hearings that the work done in relation to habitat for the proposed bypass was the best he'd ever seen, so I would certainly not see him taking credit for its cancellation. Salafia only turned up once, gave a very long spiel about how the road broke EU regulations because it was cross-border (it isn't even cross-county) and was never seen again. The main opposition was by John Rogers who didn't want his view ruined from his garden (until a detailed survey showed that the road would be barely visible from his garden once a period of time had elapsed to allow planting grow sufficiently high to hide it).

Irish and Proud

Slane Resident wrote: »

Neither Sweetman nor Salafia have stopped the Slane Bypass, and the hope is that funding may still be found for it. Shane McEntee certainly doesn't seem to be of the impression that it's a "done deal" that it won't be built, and Varadkar hasn't confirmed that it has been cancelled. They say that the priority for road building now will be safety rather than traffic, and as such Slane has got to be the most needed road in the country.

As for Sweetman, he stated at the ABP hearings that the work done in relation to habitat for the proposed bypass was the best he'd ever seen, so I would certainly not see him taking credit for its cancellation. Salafia only turned up once, gave a very long spiel about how the road broke EU regulations because it was cross-border (it isn't even cross-county) and was never seen again. The main opposition was by John Rogers who didn't want his view ruined from his garden (until a detailed survey showed that the road would be barely visible from his garden once a period of time had elapsed to allow planting grow sufficiently high to hide it).

Ok Mods, I know this is OT, but...

I found a perfect answer (though it's now over a year old) to the likes of Sweetman on this webpage of 'Bypass Slane Campaign, Ireland' on Facebook:

Maria

I think there's also a certain element of wishing to keep Slane, and its environs, as a "theme park". The problem is, this isn't Quiet Man country. It's the real world, with real problems, and real dangers, and real people live here and have to deal with those dangers on a daily basis. It's nice to think we should keep the countryside intact and pristine, but the reality is this isn't Disneyland and the locals don't get to clock out at 5.00. This is a 3.5 kilometre stretch of road which will keep Meath residents safe. To me, it's a no-brainer.

Well said!!! :):)

jd

The Route selection report has been released

Route Selection Report, Oilgate to Rosslare
http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/Roads/NationalRoadsLiaisonOffice/OilgateRosslareHarbourProject/RouteSelectionReport/

Main Text
http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/Roads/NationalRoadsLiaisonOffice/OilgateRosslareHarbourProject/RouteSelectionReport/Thefile,18787,en.pdf

Have skimmed through it -kinda busy at the moment

Table 2.2:
Site
No.
Observed 2010 AADT flows
Location Description
2010 Observed
AADT
AADT %HGV
1 N25 southeast of Ashfield Cross Roads 6,640 14%
2 R740 east of Ashfield Cross Roads 3,560 8%
3 N25 north of R739 13,970 11%
4 R730 north of N25 Roundabout at Sinnotstown 11,940 10%
5 Local road between Murntown Lower and R730 at 2,910 6%
Starvehall
6 R733 east of N25 Roundabout at Clonard Great 13,830 7%
7 R733 west of N25 Roundabout at Clonard Great 7,980 7%
8 R769 east of N25 Roundabout at Ballindinas 10,460 8%
9 N25 west of N25 Roundabout at Ballindinas 12,880 13%
10 N25 350m east of Davidstown Cross 10,130 15%
11 R730 east of N11 Ferrycarrig Junction 3,630 6%
12 R741 east of Wexford Harbour Bridge 13,490 8%
13 N11 north of Ferrycarrig Bridge 12,980 14%
14 N11 south of Oilgate in townland of Whitefort 13,160 13%
15 N11 south of Enniscorthy Town near Salville 12,340 13%
16 N30 west of Enniscorthy near Jamestown 7,040 14%
17 R702 west of Milehouse 2,120 9%
18 N11 north of Enniscorthy Town near Moyne Lower 15,520 13%
19 R744 east of Clonhasten Cross Roads 3,250 11%
20 R741 north of Ballymartin Crossroads 5,440 17%
21 R741 south of the R741/R744 junction 4,440 13%
22 R741 immediately south of N11 8,050 9%
23 N25 east of Tagoat 7,180 12%
24 N25 north of Rosemount 14,960 9%

It is noted that there has been a reduction in traffic since 2007 due to
the economic downturn. This is especially apparent on the N11
between Ferrycarrig and Oilgate, where the 2007 traffic volumes
reduced from an AADT of 17,486 (Segment 7 Table 2.1) to 12,980 (Site
Nr 13 Table 2.2). It should also be noted however that in the same
period the traffic on the N25, South of the N25/R730 roundabout
(Rosslare Road Roundabout), has increased from an AADT of 11,643
(Segment 1 Table 2.1) to 14,960 (Site Nr 24 Table 2.2). In any event,
the current traffic on the N11 North of Ferrycarrig and the N25 south of
the Rosslare Road Roundabout have an AADT of in excess of the
recommended desirable minimum Level of Service D (AADT of 11,600)
as per TD9/10 of NRA Design Manual for Roads and Bridges.
It is therefore concluded that based on traffic, an upgrade from a single
carriageway to a Type 1, Type 2, or Type 3 Dual carriageway would
increase the traffic capacity and should aid in achieving a LOS of at
least LOS D on the stretch of the National Primary Roads (N11 & N25)
between Oilgate and Rosslare Harbour. It should be noted that final
carriageway type will be determined by an incremental analysis during
the Design phase (Phase 3 of the NRA Project Management
Guidelines).

dubhthach

Map showing all the route options is in this file:
http://www.wexford.ie/wex/Departments/Roads/NationalRoadsLiaisonOffice/OilgateRosslareHarbourProject/RouteSelectionReport/Thefile,18814,en.pdf

jd

Interesting to see they mention type 3 DC (2+1 road) in some of the analysis . I don't think the NRA plan to build these in the future.

Chris_5339762

Now if THIS was to be done before the N28, my god!

jd

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Now if THIS was to be done before the N28, my god!

Doubt we'll see any work on this this side of 2018. There is still Rathnew-Arklow and Gorey-Oylegate to complete ahead of it...