N11/N25 - Oilgate to Rosslare Harbour [route options published]

vicwatson

jd wrote: »

They have to do it what is required legally required as changed. If they don't, someone will go down the Judicial Review route..

Why do they have to though? Why is this the law? Has it always been the law? Is this a relatively new law?

vicwatson

jd wrote: »

They have to do it what is required legally required as changed. If they don't, someone will go down the Judicial Review route..

Why do they have to though? Why is this the law? Has it always been the law? Is this a relatively new law?

What law is it that forces them to do this?

Jayuu

Looking at the 2011 preferred route option on the website this seems to be a mix of an offline/online build. Would this prevent the road from being granted motorway status? I assume that a 2+2 is being proposed here with fully grade separated junctions.

marno21

Jayuu wrote: »

Looking at the 2011 preferred route option on the website this seems to be a mix of an offline/online build. Would this prevent the road from being granted motorway status? I assume that a 2+2 is being proposed here with fully grade separated junctions.

My guess is 2+2 Wexford-Rosslare and 2+2 or motorway north of Wexford.

The road between Wexford and Rosslare shouldn't even be in the top 50 national priorities to be perfectly honest.

Jayuu

marno21 wrote: »

The road between Wexford and Rosslare shouldn't even be in the top 50 national priorities to be perfectly honest.

Don't entirely disagree although I suppose because it's part of the Euroroute it probably has a higher profile. That being said, given Brexit there may be some interest in Rosslare as a direct connection point to the continent.

marno21

Jayuu wrote: »

Don't entirely disagree although I suppose because it's part of the Euroroute it probably has a higher profile. That being said, given Brexit there may be some interest in Rosslare as a direct connection point to the continent.

Traffic on the N25 approaching Rosslare is currently at around 50% the capacity of the road current road. It would be ~30% the capacity of a 2+2 and ~12% the capacity of a full motorway.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if it went ahead despite this, and despite there being far bigger needs on the N25 itself.

jd

vicwatson wrote: »

Why do they have to though? Why is this the law? Has it always been the law? Is this a relatively new law?

From what I remember, it goes back to 2012.
https://www.tii.ie/technical-services/procurement/
If you google a bit, you'll find the changes (as I did a a few months ago, not going to do it again)

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

Traffic on the N25 approaching Rosslare is currently at around 50% the capacity of the road current road. It would be ~30% the capacity of a 2+2 and ~12% the capacity of a full motorway.

That said I wouldn't be surprised if it went ahead despite this, and despite there being far bigger needs on the N25 itself.

This road was upgraded in the early 90s/late 80s. It is not a priority and perfectly adequate for the traffic volumes. I don't get this frenzy about the M11 ending at Oylegate- they can get by perfectly fine until far more pressing needs are looked after first. There's no major bottle neck really.

vicwatson

jd wrote: »

From what I remember, it goes back to 2012.
https://www.tii.ie/technical-services/procurement/
If you google a bit, you'll find the changes (as I did a a few months ago, not going to do it again)

Nah, I’ll get a politician on to it

Kev11491

I imagine in the long run with Rosslare now attracting new routes to continental Europe that such an upgrade would be wise future proof upgrade.

I told ya

IMO the M11 should be extended all the way to Rosslare Harbour, soon as. Given the uncertainty of Brexit, and the possibility of a bust up with the UK, goods being exported to the continent should go direct.

In a bust up situation, I could see all sorts of delays, paperwork, inspections, when going through the UK.

road_high

I told ya wrote: »

IMO the M11 should be extended all the way to Rosslare Harbour, soon as. Given the uncertainty of Brexit, and the possibility of a bust up with the UK, goods being exported to the continent should go direct.

In a bust up situation, I could see all sorts of delays, paperwork, inspections, when going through the UK.

That's not a good enough reason tbh. It's a lightly trafficed road that was completely upgraded early 1990s. Far worse and busier roads that need attention first.

I told ya

road_high wrote: »

That's not a good enough reason tbh. It's a lightly trafficed road that was completely upgraded early 1990s. Far worse and busier roads that need attention first.

I fully accept there are numerous roads requiring attention. But the country has to keep exporting, competitively.

A Brexit bust up could lead to a lot of difficulties. Best avoided.

MichealD

road_high wrote: »

That's not a good enough reason tbh. It's a lightly trafficed road that was completely upgraded early 1990s. Far worse and busier roads that need attention first.

As a daily user of the road I tend to agree with your overall point. However some solution needs to be found to alleviate congestion on the Wexford bypass section particularly the Maldron roundabout to Whitford roundabout section.

The bypass is effectively a national primary route combined with an outer relief road. 2km+ tailbacks/ 30 minute delays from the Maldron (N25/N11/Wexford town) roundabout are common at peak times/ferry arrival/departure times. If this section was upgraded it would negate any immediate need for a full length upgrade. As the proposed new road is along the existing corridor this could be incorporated into new road at a later stage.

road_high

MichealD wrote: »

As a daily user of the road I tend to agree with your overall point. However some solution needs to be found to alleviate congestion on the Wexford bypass section particularly the Maldron roundabout to Whitford roundabout section.

The bypass is effectively a national primary route combined with an outer relief road. 2km+ tailbacks/ 30 minute delays from the Maldron (N25/N11/Wexford town) roundabout are common at peak times/ferry arrival/departure times. If this section was upgraded it would negate any immediate need for a full length upgrade. As the proposed new road is along the existing corridor this could be incorporated into new road at a later stage.

I agree- but it's the poor roundabout layout that is constraining. Need double lanes likes the N10 Kilkenny ring road has at the major roundabouts and capacity is much enhanced. Also upgrade the Johnstown Castle exit to a flyover and close off the existing dangerous junction.
The Wexford bypass element only opened around 1990 I think.

BelfastVanMan

road_high wrote: »

I agree- but it's the poor roundabout layout that is constraining. Need double lanes likes the N10 Kilkenny ring road has at the major roundabouts and capacity is much enhanced. Also upgrade the Johnstown Castle exit to a flyover and close off the existing dangerous junction.
The Wexford bypass element only opened around 1990 I think.

December 1989, if memory serves me right.

kneemos

https://wexfordtoday.com/2020/02/28/oylegate-bypass-expected-to-begin-within-2-years/

spacetweek

Not clear if he has any evidence for the 2 year claim or if it's just a hunch.

vicwatson

spacetweek wrote: »

Not clear if he has any evidence for the 2 year claim or if it's just a hunch.

Political hogwash

kneemos

Not everyone agrees with the minister.

https://wexfordtoday.com/2020/02/28/oylegate-bypass-is-still-many-years-away-cllr-kavanagh/

marno21

kneemos wrote: »

https://wexfordtoday.com/2020/02/28/oylegate-bypass-expected-to-begin-within-2-years/

Zero chance of this starting within 2 years. It's at the very least late 2024, and that's assuming perfect conditions and sailing through ABP etc.

That's also not factoring a global pandemic and economic downturn we are now looking at.

steeler j

If it got to ABP in 2 years that would be more realistic

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

Zero chance of this starting within 2 years. It's at the very least late 2024, and that's assuming perfect conditions and sailing through ABP etc.

That's also not factoring a global pandemic and economic downturn we are now looking at.

Was on part of it the other day. Definitely not a priority scheme in the context of far worse N roads. It was all upgraded 30 or less years ago and below Wexford a low ADDT count. No obvious bottleneck bar a couple of roundabouts that are poorly executed. Sort those and this could trundle for a other few years without issue.
Places like dungarvan, killeigh and castlemartyr are far far worse and barely a word about them.

MichealD

Mapalerter

N25 Maldron to Whitford Roundabouts - Topographical Surveying from Monday 9th March for 2 weeks 09.00 to 17.00 daily. Possible Stop and Go at times.

Decoda

MichealD wrote: »

Mapalerter

N25 Maldron to Whitford Roundabouts - Topographical Surveying from Monday 9th March for 2 weeks 09.00 to 17.00 daily. Possible Stop and Go at times.

Its topo surveying by the TII Regional Design office for a proposed resurfacing scheme later this year / early 2021. Unrelated to the Oilgate to Rosslare Hbr scheme.

marno21

http://oilgate2rosslareharbour.ie/public-participation/

Public consultation pending removal of covid-19 restrictions.

kneemos

Public consultation process 6-20 July

https://wexfordtoday.com/2020/06/29/council-seeks-views-on-oilgate-to-rosslare-bypass/

marno21

Route options published: http://oilgate2rosslareharbour.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/N11-N25-Oilgate-to-Rosslare-Harbour-Public-Consultation-Brochure-June-2020.pdf

More detailed information available on the website here: http://oilgate2rosslareharbour.ie/public-consultation/

Chris_5339762

C is pretty much the old plans, I reckon they'll go for that one.

Whoever designed G was on the sauce, thats the wildest route selection I've ever seen in Ireland.

mydiscworld

Assume this is tied in to the new road plans

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0703/1151146-rosslare-port/

€30m investment planned for Rosslare Europort

kneemos

mydiscworld wrote: »

Assume this is tied in to the new road plans

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0703/1151146-rosslare-port/

€30m investment planned for Rosslare Europort

Think it's mainly something to do with offshore wind development plans.
Doesn't really have the roads to support freight,even for the southern half of the country.

spacetweek

It's hard to see the individual route options on that map. On this page they're drawn separately and are easier to see.

I'd also encourage everyone to fill out the feedback form.

nowayout1

I know option G is a bit of around the world route. But looking at it, it looks like it causes the very small impacts on current rounds like the other options seem to use the existing N25 in parts.

Option G could would & as it approaches Stephenstown/Killinick it could follow the iv option then onto the route for A & C onto Rosslare, or follow the iv option north of Killinick & onto the second iv option before rejoining the rest of option G to take the left/right bend out of the route, or just leave it the whole of route G. Very minimal impact on existing national primary roads & would be seem less from existing M11 south of Enniscorthy. Plus would have future option of M25 to Waterford via the new New Ross bridge & onward to Cork.

Major investment needed with south & southeast of Ireland in a post brexit world if landbridge is refused & would open up to tourism from the continent as well, major boost to both businesses & local economy’s & quality of life. We’ve a tendency to let this get unbearable before we fix things maybe this could be a first & act before things get worse.

Pete_Cavan

The new road should use as much of the existing road as possible, particularly the Wexford Bypass. It reduces conflicts with landowners, is cheaper and is more environmentally friendly, all of which make the project more likely to happen. The short term pain will be worth the long term gain.

vicwatson

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The new road should use as much of the existing road as possible, particularly the Wexford Bypass. It reduces conflicts with landowners, is cheaper and is more environmentally friendly, all of which make the project more likely to happen. The short term pain will be worth the long term gain.

Makes completes sense, that was the route chosen at their first go of this process.

marno21

Some disquiet in the area about two of the potential route options

https://www.independent.ie/regionals/wexfordpeople/piercestown-united-against-risk-of-bypass-splitting-village-in-half-39382941.html

vicwatson

Anyone know the original route letter? We have a preferred route in place, from 2012, but what was that route letter? Was it a combination of A, B & D on the original routes set out? Anyone remember?

vicwatson

Actually I think might be the answer I wanted - "Going from north to south, this route generally comprises Route Option B, crossing onto Route Option D as it crosses the River Slaney west of Ferrycarrig Bridge, and continues as Route Option D for the remainder of the route to Rosslare Harbour"

RadioRetro

A Tweet from the Wexford People's Padraig Byrne;

"Public consultation on the N11/N25 Oylegate to Rosslare Europort scheme has been extended again until August 10, Dir of Services at @wexfordcoco Eamonn Hore has said."

marno21

Public consultation report published:

https://oilgate2rosslareharbour.ie/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/229100548-MMD-0000-XX-RP-C-0025-P5-Public-Consultation-Report.pdf

Preferred route corridor expected by February/March 2021.

marno21

Tender out for LIDAR surveys for the project

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/177566/1/0

vicwatson

marno21 wrote: »

Tender out for LIDAR surveys for the project

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/177566/1/0

Can we know the value on this tender?

hometruths

marno21 wrote: »

Tender out for LIDAR surveys for the project

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/177566/1/0

Study area for the survey suggests E, F and G are off the table

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/docmgmt/downloadPublicDocument.asp?FMT=5&AT=3&LID=200635&DVID=2743659

KrisW1001

My guess is they'll go with A. I wonder how much of this will be produced as Type 1 DC/motorway. It's possible that all of it could be 2+2, but realistically, I think they'll bring the motorway down to wherever the N25 is going to meet the new route (as M11 will also be carrying Dublin traffic to/from Waterford and the south coast via N25), then continue as 2+2 to Rosslare itself. I don't think even the Wexford bypass needs to be upgraded to Type 1 DC.

The traffic through the port really doesn't justify the capacity of a Type 1/ motorway (20,000+ daily) - even a single-carriageway road would do the job, but 2+2 would be the preferred choice for safety.

(A typical roll-on, roll-off ferry holds around 350 vehicles; you'd need to be operating 10 sailings a day to trouble even a single-carriageway road).

marno21

KrisW1001 wrote: »

My guess is they'll go with A. I wonder how much of this will be produced as Type 1 DC/motorway. It's possible that all of it could be 2+2, but realistically, I think they'll bring the motorway down to wherever the N25 is going to meet the new route (as M11 will also be carrying Dublin traffic to/from Waterford and the south coast via N25), then continue as 2+2 to Rosslare itself. I don't think even the Wexford bypass needs to be upgraded to Type 1 DC.

The traffic through the port really doesn't justify the capacity of a Type 1/ motorway (20,000+ daily) - even a single-carriageway road would do the job, but 2+2 would be the preferred choice for safety.

(A typical roll-on, roll-off ferry holds around 350 vehicles; you'd need to be operating 10 sailings a day to trouble even a single-carriageway road).

If I were to guess I would say motorway from Oilgate to where the N25 meets the N11 which will be a significantly better powered junction than the current one. South of the N11/N25 junction motorway is complete overkill. Debatable whether any upgrade is required south of Wexford for now.

riddlinrussell

marno21 wrote: »

If I were to guess I would say motorway from Oilgate to where the N25 meets the N11 which will be a significantly better powered junction than the current one. South of the N11/N25 junction motorway is complete overkill. Debatable whether any upgrade is required south of Wexford for now.

I could see them anticipating a post Brexit uptick in European sea crossings to justify 2+2 as a 'future-proof', as you say, probably not needed but I'm sure plenty would want to see all key ports linked by Dual carriageway.

kneemos

There's another ferry service planned to Dunkirk from Rosslare,so that might be a factor.https://wexfordtoday.com/2020/11/27/new-rosslare-to-dunkirk-daily-ferry-service/

On another note I notice one or two cars have gone through the roundabout at Oylgate coming from the motorway. Maybe better road markings?

blindsider

marno21 wrote: »

If I were to guess I would say motorway from Oilgate to where the N25 meets the N11 which will be a significantly better powered junction than the current one. South of the N11/N25 junction motorway is complete overkill. Debatable whether any upgrade is required south of Wexford for now.

Isn't the route on the Ten-T network/plan? I also seem to remember that Rosslare is not a 'core' port? Again, might change after Brexit...?

murphaph

DC further down towards Rosslare also gives somewhere to stack HGVs in the event of ferry disruption (weather, strikes, pandemics etc.).

Rosslare was a pretty sleepy roro port up until now but that could change significantly.

Jayuu

Just putting this here as I can't find another thread suitable. With the increase in freight traffic from Rosslare arising from Brexit and a number of new ferry crossings I wonder that there seems to be no plan on any improvements on the N25 between Wexford and New Ross to link this scheme with the New Ross bypass and then on past Waterford (as soon as the Glenmore link is complete).

I know the road is fairly decent for a WS2 but one would have thought that a potential bypass of Ballinaboola might be considered as it's the only village between Wexford and New Ross that the N25 goes through.

I also assume that this Oilgate/Rosslare road itself will be built to 2+2 standard now given how Rosslare may become more of a key port.