Manchester United Vs Arsenal (inc. scores after 4.05pm)

jesus_thats_gre

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Now say that without your ABU glasses on...

Its a fact though, granted my opinion is biased but at the end of the day, it is a fact.

Rooney cheated in gaining the penalty. If the scored peno had of been the only goal of the match it would have been a major shame. It was better that a second goal came from genuine skill as it means the game wasnt over shadowed completely.

However, the second goal came from Arsenal having to press on to get an equaliser.

The stat of 7 peno's in 7 games in United's favour, all in Old Trafford is worth talking about?

yop

"Match of the day 2 is just starting "

Ya, great to watch it again, even better the 2nd time to watch the great run come to an end.
Fredinand was lucky really but that is the way it goes.
Was no way a peno but it made up for the Ronaldo one that was.
Nice play by smithy and Rooney.
One again we see Henry cannot cope when he comes up against good defenders.

Ref was very poor some very strange decisions, G Nev should have been booked for the challege from behind
Arsenal created very little, seemed to play for a draw.
RVN will probably get cited, daft move by him.

Arsenal are pathetic losers, moaned and groaned at ever chance they got, all over the ref at every decision and how convenient that Arse Whinger sees the incident with RVN and the penalty, selective viewing!!

Not to worry, a win is a win, end of record against their biggest rivals, very hard to stomach.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Draupnir wrote:

if anyone but you posted **** like that Gandalf you would be banning them straight away so I think maybe you should take it easy.

You are most definitely wrong there Draupnir, he has said nothing that has not been said more or less by some other man u fans here today.

Good game, Ferdinand lucky to stay on the pitch for the chalenge on Ljungberg along with G Neville and Viera for persistent fouls, can't believe that Neville was not sent off for the number of times that he kicked Reyes when he burned him.

Anyway, game was enjoyable to watch and great interplay for the second goal. Last time Arsenal lost, they went on a 49 game unbeaten run, wonder how they will respond to this.

cournioni

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Its a fact though, granted my opinion is biased but at the end of the day, it is a fact.

Rooney cheated in gaining the penalty. If the scored peno had of been the only goal of the match it would have been a major shame. It was better that a second goal came from genuine skill as it means the game wasnt over shadowed completely.

However, the second goal came from Arsenal having to press on to get an equaliser.

The stat of 7 peno's in 7 games in United's favour, all in Old Trafford is worth talking about?

Sure it is worth talking about, however you can't just put up a stat like that and say that he's being biased towards United... As Strachan said United crowd the box and more often than not will get a penalty for genuine fouls. So don't read too much into that stat.

And what about Ronaldo's penalty claim? If that wasn't a stonewall penalty I don't know what is... He was hardly being biased towards United then. He was giving Arsenal free kicks for next to nothing after United scored and they could have cost us.

Why wasn't Vieira sent off for persistant fouling, how about a couple of Edu's tackles that weren't carded. There was a number of incidents that went unpunished on Arsenal's behalf.

Seriously, everything evened itself out today. And United deserved the win.

mike65

Just seen the MOTD footage, Horseface should be banned for 3 games at least. Clearly Rooney dived, there was no contact though the ref proberly honestly thought it was, while Freddie L was clearly fouled by Ferdinand who as last man should have been red-carded. Utd as "lucky" as only Utd can be.

I was listening to the match live on "Five" and from the sound of it refs really
should start to book players who seek to pressurise and intimidate officals by rushing half-way across the pitch to "have a word".

Mike.

cournioni

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

can't believe that Neville was not sent off for the number of times that he kicked Reyes when he burned him.

Twice. The one he was booked for was a genuine attempt to play the ball. And he was close to getting the ball too. So you are incorrect.

cournioni

mike65 wrote:

Just seen the MOTD footage, Horseface should be banned for 3 games at least. Clearly Rooney dived, there was no contact though the ref proberly honestly thought it was, while Freddie L was clearly fouled by Ferdinand who as last man should have been red-carded. Utd as "lucky" as only Utd can be.

I was listening to the match live on "Five" and from the sound of it refs really
should start to book players who seek to pressurise and intimidate officals by rushing half-way across the pitch to "have a word".

Mike.

You didn't see the whole match? They didn't show all of Arsenal's little incidents including Bergkamp elbowing Smith in the face right in front of the referee. They didn't show Ronaldo's penalty claim... FFS I could go on all night.

You should watch the full match before making a judgement on it. United fully deserved to win. Arsenal are just as bitter as they've always been when they don't get their way. Isn't it funny how Wenger see's so much when things are going wrong for him?

A Dub in Glasgo

mike65 wrote:

Just seen the MOTD footage, Horseface should be banned for 3 games at least.

erm... for what? Scoring against Arsenal or the 'tackle'?

mike65

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

mike65 wrote:

Just seen the MOTD footage, Horseface should be banned for 3 games at least.[ /QUOTE]

erm... for what? :rolleyes:

Deliberatly kicking Ashley Cole full on, on his leading knee. He knew exactly
what he was doing.

Mike.

cournioni

If he knew exactly what he was doing, why was he facing the other way when he caught him? Please explain mike.

Memnoch

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Sure it is worth talking about, however you can't just put up a stat like that and say that he's being biased towards United... As Strachan said United crowd the box and more often than not will get a penalty for genuine fouls. So don't read too much into that stat.

And what about Ronaldo's penalty claim? If that wasn't a stonewall penalty I don't know what is... He was hardly being biased towards United then. He was giving Arsenal free kicks for next to nothing after United scored and they could have cost us.

Why wasn't Vieira sent off for persistant fouling, how about a couple of Edu's tackles that weren't carded. There was a number of incidents that went unpunished on Arsenal's behalf.

Seriously, everything evened itself out today. And United deserved the win.

i'll have to disagree, you can't say that everything "evened" out, because had Ferdinand been sent off early on the game would have been entirely different. United would have been much more likely to have to defend even deeper and conceede more of the possession to arsenal.

secondly the penalty was clearly a dive, and once that goal went in, that also changed the match significantly. After that arsenal were forced to throw caution to the winds, and this allowed United more opportunities on the break and when they got possession, so there is a good chance that Ronaldo's foul (which i accept was a foul) would not have happened, and the same goes for the 2nd goal scored by Rooney in the 92nd minute.

At the end of the day the fact remains that the referee made 2 very incorrect decisions that had far reaching consequences and handed Man U the win.

Patrick vierra's fouling wasn't as extreme as you try to make it out to be, atleast it didn't seem that way to me, especially when you compare it to the two times where Van Nistelroy purposefully dug his studs into Ashley cole and Lehman.

Being a neutral soccer fan, I enjoy a good game of football, but nothing irks me more than watching a side win undeservedly, and even more so because of bad refereeing, I also have no tolerance for the kind of malicious rubbish that was being pulled by Nistelroy, or the "dive" by Rooney. You can say its "a part of footbal" but we know thats just a poor excuse

edit - p.s. btw Van Nistelroy cheating is nothing new to me. I supported Holland in the Euro championships, but even then I wasn't happy with his antics. I'm not denying that he is a good player, but all that is irrelevant if you cheat

The Muppet

mike65 wrote:

Deliberatly kicking Ashley Cole full on, on his leading knee. He knew exactly
what he was doing.

Mike.

I think there was miimal contact TBH. Cole played out the match with no obvious sign of injury. It looked worse than it was IMO.

Thanx 4 The Fish

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Twice. The one he was booked for was a genuine attempt to play the ball. And he was close to getting the ball too. So you are incorrect.

Hang ona minute there Porn, to be incorrect there has to be some evidence, apart from your interpretation of the act, that what I said is wrong. Now since I watched the same coverage I'd imagine as you and saw the same camera angles as you and heard the same commentary as you and interpreted it differently I will say you are incorrect. It is always down to interpretation, if I was reffing that game there would not have been eleven left on either team at the end of that game. Seemed like Man U, or possibly just Nevilles gameplan was to kick lumps out of Reyes and I would have sent Neville off for those persistent fouls. Viera would have been off for the same offence as well as for continuously annoying the ref and getting involved where he need not have. Ferdinand would have been off for knocking Ljungberg over and I prob would have given united two penalties. Now you can say I am incorrect but it would be plain WRONG of you to do so as it is all down to interpretation.

mike65

The Muppet wrote:

I think there was miimal contact TBH. Cole played out the match with no obvious sign of injury. It looked worse than it was IMO.

I view intent as the crime rather than the effect. Anyways I'll bow out here before I get banned for expressing my true feelings about Van Dutchman!

Mike.

Memnoch

mike65 wrote:

I view intent as the crime rather than the effect. Anyways I'll bow out here before I get banned for expressing my true feelings about Van Dutchman!

Mike.

yup it was a very cynical and malicious act. I have no respect for players like that

cournioni

Sounds like an ABU talking, rather than a neutral in all fairness Memnoch.

Why should Ferdinand be sent off when Ljungberg has lost control of the ball? That just doesn't make sense.

Secondly, how do you know it was a dive. Are you sure there was no contact? It may have been minimal, but then again Campbell should have thought twice before hanging out his leg. When I saw it at first, I thought straight away, that is a penalty as did Andy Gray. And as did the referee. The referee only gets one look at it remember.

There was more than two very incorrect decisions today that could have changed the face of the game. You're just trying to justify Arsenal's arguement, when it could have went either way on the day. And you are also taking away from the fact that United were the best team on the day, regardless of who scored what. How do you know United wouldn't have won it anyway.

Patrick Vieira's fouling was indeed extreme as I made it out to be. He made more than four cynical fouls in the first half alone. You really need to watch the game again mate.

How can it be purposeful when van Nistelrooy isn't even facing Cole when he made that tackle? How can that be malicious when he cant even see him?! FFS. You didn't mention Bergkamp elbowing Smith in the face in front of the referee either. Yet you are singling Ruud and Rooney as the "bad guys".

cournioni

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Hang ona minute there Porn, to be incorrect there has to be some evidence, apart from your interpretation of the act, that what I said is wrong. Now since I watched the same coverage I'd imagine as you and saw the same camera angles as you and heard the same commentary as you and interpreted it differently I will say you are incorrect. It is always down to interpretation, if I was reffing that game there would not have been eleven left on either team at the end of that game. Seemed like Man U, or possibly just Nevilles gameplan was to kick lumps out of Reyes and I would have sent Neville off for those persistent fouls. Viera would have been off for the same offence as well as for continuously annoying the ref and getting involved where he need not have. Ferdinand would have been off for knocking Ljungberg over and I prob would have given united two penalties. Now you can say I am incorrect but it would be plain WRONG of you to do so as it is all down to interpretation.

That is a fair enough point. It was my interpretation that you were wrong though!

The Muppet

Memnoch wrote:

yup it was a very cynical and malicious act. I have no respect for players like that

I dont believe there was any malicious intent . If there had been he could/would have followed through and inflicted a very serious injury on Cole. AS TFTF says its down to interpretation and Football fans {including neutrals apparently } tend to see what they want to.

cournioni

mike65 wrote:

I view intent as the crime rather than the effect. Anyways I'll bow out here before I get banned for expressing my true feelings about Van Dutchman!

Mike.

You haven't answered my question...

If he knew exactly what he was doing, why was he facing the other way when he caught him? Please explain mike.

A Dub in Glasgo

Memnoch wrote:

i'll have to disagree, you can't say that everything "evened" out, because had Ferdinand been sent off early on the game would have been entirely different. United would have been much more likely to have to defend even deeper and conceede more of the possession to arsenal.

Minimal shoulder charge type of contact with the ball knocked so far ahead that the goalie was picking it up. Very very harsh decision if Ferdinand was sent off for that

Memnoch wrote:

secondly the penalty was clearly a dive

You must be the only one who thought that whilest watching it live at the time. Everyone near me either shouted 'Penalty' or 'Oh No'. Listen to the commentary again, there was no question that it was not a penalty at the time from almost everybody. From the angle the ref was at, he could give nothing other than a penalty. The assistant ref should have seen it and brought it to the referees attention. Same goes for the Ronaldo penalty claim.

Memnoch wrote:

After that arsenal were forced to throw caution to the winds, and this allowed United more opportunities on the break and when they got possession, so there is a good chance that Ronaldo's foul (which i accept was a foul) would not have happened, and the same goes for the 2nd goal scored by Rooney in the 92nd minute.

You cannot say that with any logic at all. Who knows what might have happened. The shot in the first half from Scholes might have gone in therefore there probably would not have been any penalty incident

Memnoch wrote:

At the end of the day the fact remains that the referee made 2 very incorrect decisions that had far reaching consequences and handed Man U the win.

Hindsight and numerous camera angles is very good for the keyboard ref

Memnoch wrote:

Being a neutral soccer fan, I enjoy a good game of football, but nothing irks me more than watching a side win undeservedly, and even more so because of bad refereeing, I also have no tolerance for the kind of malicious rubbish that was being pulled by Nistelroy, or the "dive" by Rooney. You can say its "a part of footbal" but we know thats just a poor excuse

You don't sound very neutral

cournioni

By the way, they didn't show Edu raking his studs down the side of Paul Scholes's leg either. I'm beginning to think that the BBC are living up to their reputation as a true Londoner's station. They didn't show any of the incidents that Arsenal were guilty of. They seemed intent on trying to put down United's victory to the ref as much as possible.

Memnoch

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Sounds like an ABU talking, rather than a neutral in all fairness Memnoch.

no idea what ABU is tbh. And weather you believe it or not, I'm a neutral, I don't really care who wins the premiereship.

Why should Ferdinand be sent off when Ljungberg has lost control of the ball? That just doesn't make sense.

the keeper was still at his line, the fact is that ferdinand took Ljunberg down, so you don't know what he might have been able to do, but to me it seemed like he was through and was brought down by ferdinand, so he should have been sent off

Secondly, how do you know it was a dive. Are you sure there was no contact? It may have been minimal, but then again Campbell should have thought twice before hanging out his leg. When I saw it at first, I thought straight away, that is a penalty as did Andy Gray. And as did the referee. The referee only gets one look at it remember.

this is a very self-contradictory arguement. On the hand hand you say the contact was "minimal" yet Rooney went down? The replays made it pretty clear that Rooney went down off his own accord, hence its a dive. Yes I agree with your point that the refree got only one look at it, nevertheless, that would be little consolation to the team that looses a goal on an incorrect decision.

There was more than two very incorrect decisions today that could have changed the face of the game. You're just trying to justify Arsenal's arguement, when it could have went either way on the day. And you are also taking away from the fact that United were the best team on the day, regardless of who scored what. How do you know United wouldn't have won it anyway.

I'm sure the refree made more than two incorrect decisions, for example Van deserved a booking at least for his behaviour, and perhaps Vierra also for constantly "harassing" the ref, but i think he got booked in the end anyways. There were minor things like that sure, but those two decisions that I've mentioned are THE REASON that United won. Your statement that united were the "best on the day" is just your opinion, and off course you will say that since you are a United supporter. To me it seemed like the match was pretty even, and arsenal were really threatening at the beginning of the second half. I wonder how well Man Utd. would have been able to deal with that situation with 10 men?

Patrick Vieira's fouling was indeed extreme as I made it out to be. He made more than four cynical fouls in the first half alone. You really need to watch the game again mate.

No, I don't need to watch the game again. Patrick Viera's "fouling" didnt' seem like that to me. He did make a poor challenge and got booked for it as far as I remember. Your point of view is that basically an opposing team player should be booked every time they commit a foul.

How can it be purposeful when van Nistelrooy isn't even facing Cole when he made that tackle? How can that be malicious when he cant even see him?! FFS. You didn't mention Bergkamp elbowing Smith in the face in front of the referee either. Yet you are singling Ruud and Rooney as the "bad guys".

its funny how much being a "fan" can color someone's vision. He stuck his leg out and "turned" the other way, his foot was NO WHERE near close to the ball. It seemed pretty obvious to me. Only a United fan would contest that imo. I didn't see the "elbow" you are talking about, but if it did happen then my opinion of bergkamp would be no different than my opinion of what Ruud did. Thing is i've seen Van Nistelroy do this kind of stuff time and time again. There is no singeling out, to me it seemed like these two engaged in seriously unsportsman like play.

Memnoch

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Minimal shoulder charge type of contact with the ball knocked so far ahead that the goalie was picking it up. Very very harsh decision if Ferdinand was sent off for that

but the fact remains that Ljunberg was brought down by ferdinand, and it was a shoulder push into the back, than a shoulder-shoulder tackle. In this kind of situation the rules are pretty clear. And it wasn't that close to the goalie, you don't know that freddy would have gotten to the ball or not.

You must be the only one who thought that whilest watching it live at the time. Everyone near me either shouted 'Penalty' or 'Oh No'. Listen to the commentary again, there was no question that it was not a penalty at the time from almost everybody. From the angle the ref was at, he could give nothing other than a penalty. The assistant ref should have seen it and brought it to the referees attention. Same goes for the Ronaldo penalty claim.

I don't shout, I just sit and enjoy the football :P. I wonder if you would have applied the same logic had it been arsenal recieving the penalty. I'm sure every single Man U supporter would have been up in arms about it, replay or not.

You cannot say that with any logic at all. Who knows what might have happened. The shot in the first half from Scholes might have gone in therefore there probably would not have been any penalty incident

thats really a very poor analogy. I have no idea which "scholes" shot you are talking about. And yes I can say that, you want to tell me that if Ferdinand had been sent off and that first penalty NOT been given the game would not have played out differently? I find that very hard to believe. And the FACT is that Arsenal were force to play more aggressively due to that penalty, and this DID open them up.

Hindsight and numerous camera angles is very good for the keyboard ref

i'll remember that next time you comment on a poor decision made by a ref

You don't sound very neutral

so are you accusing me of lying? If so do it openly, instead of trying to be snide about it. TBH, it doesn't matter to me weather or not you "believe" me. I gave my opinion on the game as a neutral spectator, obviously since its unfavorable of United, you are going to say its not "neutral", but that really goes to more to show your bias than mine

cournioni

Memnoch wrote:

no idea what ABU is tbh. And weather you believe it or not, I'm a neutral, I don't really care who wins the premiereship.

Well from what I can see, you aren't very neutral.

the keeper was still at his line, the fact is that ferdinand took Ljunberg down, so you don't know what he might have been able to do, but to me it seemed like he was through and was brought down by ferdinand, so he should have been sent off

No, Carroll was out on the edge of the box collecting the ball. He collected it before Ljungberg was even on the ground. So no sending off I'm afraid.

this is a very self-contradictory arguement. On the hand hand you say the contact was "minimal" yet Rooney went down? The replays made it pretty clear that Rooney went down off his own accord, hence its a dive. Yes I agree with your point that the refree got only one look at it, nevertheless, that would be little consolation to the team that looses a goal on an incorrect decision.

He could have lost his balance, that wouldn't have been a dive would it? And there was minimal contact. There are plenty of "incorrect" decisions in every match. Campbell made the mistake of hanging out his leg for Rooney to win the penalty as any player would do. Don't tell me for a second that Henry wouldn't do it at the other end because he would. Toure done an Olympic style dive near the end of the match too. Unfortunately for Arsenal the judges didn't rate it.

I'm sure the refree made more than two incorrect decisions, for example Van deserved a booking at least for his behaviour, and perhaps Vierra also for constantly "harassing" the ref, but i think he got booked in the end anyways. There were minor things like that sure, but those two decisions that I've mentioned are THE REASON that United won. Your statement that united were the "best on the day" is just your opinion, and off course you will say that since you are a United supporter. To me it seemed like the match was pretty even, and arsenal were really threatening at the beginning of the second half. I wonder how well Man Utd. would have been able to deal with that situation with 10 men?

That is silly saying that the decisions were the reason for United winning the match. Anything could have happened if they weren't given. United were the better team on the day and possibly would have won anyway. Arsenal had 1 shot on target in the whole game. So how exactly can they be the best team on the day? United had more of the posession (53%), and were more threatening in the whole match.

I wonder how Arsenal would have done with ten men too. But then again none of their players were sent off were they?

No, I don't need to watch the game again. Patrick Viera's "fouling" didnt' seem like that to me. He did make a poor challenge and got booked for it as far as I remember. Your point of view is that basically an opposing team player should be booked every time they commit a foul.

He made at least 4 cynical fouls in the first half alone. As I've pointed out to you already. It may not have "seemed" like it to you but I was counting.

No I do not believe that an opposing player should be booked for every foul. I believe they should be booked for persistant fouling, dissent and bad fouls. Like any other team in the world. For some reason Mr. Vieira was getting away with them all.

its funny how much being a "fan" can color someone's vision. He stuck his leg out and "turned" the other way, his foot was NO WHERE near close to the ball. It seemed pretty obvious to me. Only a United fan would contest that imo. I didn't see the "elbow" you are talking about, but if it did happen then my opinion of bergkamp would be no different than my opinion of what Ruud did. Thing is i've seen Van Nistelroy do this kind of stuff time and time again. There is no singeling out, to me it seemed like these two engaged in seriously unsportsman like play.

Did you see Bergkamps elbow on Smith? Did you see Edu raking his studs down Paul Scholes' leg? You ARE singling out van Nistelrooy for that offence when other things happened that were just as bad, if not worse.




Again, you are not a neutral, as you are focusing on everything United did wrong. If you were a neutral, you would be focusing on everything that happened in the game. You are an ABU.

LegacyUser

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

if I was reffing that game there would not have been eleven left on either team at the end of that game. Seemed like Man U, or possibly just Nevilles gameplan was to kick lumps out of Reyes and I would have sent Neville off for those persistent fouls. Viera would have been off for the same offence as well as for continuously annoying the ref and getting involved where he need not have. Ferdinand would have been off for knocking Ljungberg over and I prob would have given united two penalties.

Thank ****ing God you are not a ref as you would have ruined the game.

talla

Head is spinning, I'll probably reget this in the morning. It wasnt a peno, full stop,rooney dived. Cole took ronaldo out of it, how that wasnt a peno i'll never know. It was a disgrace he gave that peno but it was even more of a disgrace he didnt give the ronaldo peno. There wasnothing between the teams though

A Dub in Glasgo

Memnoch wrote:

but the fact remains that Ljunberg was brought down by ferdinand, and it was a shoulder push into the back, than a shoulder-shoulder tackle. In this kind of situation the rules are pretty clear. And it wasn't that close to the goalie, you don't know that freddy would have gotten to the ball or not.

You see, we are talking in the realms of ifs, buts and maybes here. If FL did not fall after a shoulder charge, he may have gotten to the ball but I very much doubt he would have looking at the available evidence.

Memnoch wrote:

I don't shout, I just sit and enjoy the football :P. I wonder if you would have applied the same logic had it been arsenal recieving the penalty. I'm sure every single Man U supporter would have been up in arms about it, replay or not.

It is irrelevant how I would react to another incident. The fact remains that everybody near me, of whatever support, thought it was a penalty. More importantly, the referee thought it was a penalty and he could give nothing else from where he was positioned (which was a good position). The assistant referee should have helped him out there and on the more blatant Ronaldo penalty shout. You are honestly stating here now that at the time, you thought Rooney dived when Campbell put his leg in his path? I commend your X-Ray vision!!!

Memnoch wrote:

thats really a very poor analogy. I have no idea which "scholes" shot you are talking about. And yes I can say that, you want to tell me that if Ferdinand had been sent off and that first penalty NOT been given the game would not have played out differently? I find that very hard to believe. And the FACT is that Arsenal were force to play more aggressively due to that penalty, and this DID open them up.

Of course Arsenal played differently but so did Man Utd, another case of ifs, buts and maybes. You are speculating and nobody can say for certain how the match could have panned out. The analogy with the Scholes shot is valid because it was dealing with the scenerio you love, ifs, buts & maybes.

Memnoch wrote:

i'll remember that next time you comment on a poor decision made by a ref

Good, don't forget your reaction to poor refereeing either, coming from a neutral and all that

Memnoch wrote:

so are you accusing me of lying? If so do it openly, instead of trying to be snide about it. TBH, it doesn't matter to me weather or not you "believe" me. I gave my opinion on the game as a neutral spectator, obviously since its unfavorable of United, you are going to say its not "neutral", but that really goes to more to show your bias than mine

It does seem strange that the innocent comment of 'You don't sound very neutral' should provoke such a rant. Thou Dost Protest Too Much.

Mossy Monk

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

You must be the only one who thought that whilest watching it live at the time. Everyone near me either shouted 'Penalty' or 'Oh No'.

i shouted "no ****ing way", rooney is a little tramp

kida

My Summary
1. Rooney Incident wasn't a penalty even though it looked it from all angles bar one - Can't blame the referee - maybe the linesman
2. Ronaldo incident was penalty - and another booking for Cole and so off.
3. Ferdinand incident could have been given as a foul but it did not deny a clear goal scoring opportunity as he had played the ball too far ahead and thus no red card. I think he was playing for something as he turned as Rio went to shoulder him.
4. Viera should have been sent off for both persistent cynical fouling and mouthing at the referee.
5. Toure should have been booke for his 7.9 in the area.
6. Bergkamp should have gone for the elbow - if they use video evidence on Ruus they shoudl also review this.
7. Viera, Campbell and Wenger should all be up for bringing the game into disrepute for comments about the referee.

As someon else mentioned what is it with the BBC they showed every controversial United incident and no Arsenal one - IMHO the Bergkamp incident was fat worse than Ruuds - where was the outcry there?

Big Nelly

Ok I am a real neutral! Shef Wed all the way!!

From my point of view there is a few things to clear up!

1. Ferdinand should have been yellow carded and free kick to Arsenal! no red card! Ljungberg last control of ball about 3 secs before Ferdinand got to him but it was a free kick!

2. G. Neville deserved a yellow card for first free kick but dont think he wud have made the second if he was already on a yellow.

3. Vieira should have been sent off! have you ever seen such a cry baby in all ur life? even Andy Gray said about 20 mins in he should be booked and it was late in the second half before he got a booking.

4. I think it is a f**kin joke that everytime there was a free that 3 Arsenal players where around the ref crying! Utd did the same every so often but Arsenal where 10 times worse! if it was me I wud have told them to f**k off and cry to Wenger! but he was in the fourth officials ear all game as well! wat a joke!!

5. Wasnt a peno! but then ref's view was that it was and everyone I wasnt wit though so until the fourth replay from a differnet angle changed things!

6. Ronaldo should have had a peno! linesman was a chicken s**t! bailed out on Ref for peno and that dicision as well!

7. Henry should have been sent off for kicking Heinze in the head when he was on the ground! dirty play when a player is on the ground to kick him! then he goes around shrugging his shoulders as if he hadnt a clur wat was going on!

8. Also on that point! Ferdinand should have been sent off as well because he ran half the pitch to start shoving players! Rooney was on top of the play so that why he pushed Henry over but Ferdinand just jumped in to start a fight without even knowing wat happened!

9. Bergkamp should have been sent off! rules of the game is that if u raise ur arms then ur off! did it right in front of ref and nothin! so how Arsenal can say ref was Utd biased is beyond me!

In overall terms from my point of view Utd deserved it! Again Arsenal(and Arsenal fans must agree wit this) bottled it on the big game! favorites for Champion league? r u takin the p**s? havent a hope! sure its great beating Charlton but once they come up against the big boys they r f**ked so to speak! Utd cant be too happy either! tis was the worst team they have had for a number of years! Phil Neville in midfield??? this shows how useless Jam sandwich and the other Brazilian(needs another season) is! if they where any use they wud have started! mind u Neville did a decent job defensively but this is where Utd fell down when they attacked! Neville cudnt pass da ball if he tried!

Arsenal will still win PL but if I was a Arsenal fan I wud be asking why ever top game Henry goes missin and starts crying! Best forward in the world??? no chance! look toward Milan for that!

Utd need to shape up midfield! get rid of Giggs! was useless yesterday and has been for 2-3 seasons! also need replacement for Keane! rumours of Edu moving seem to be getting more common now! but by the state of his tacking yesterday Ferguson mite be thinking again!!

Anyway my 2 cent! pick ur way thru it people!

Edit

10. Sorry forgot the Van da Man incident! not much he cud do! was trying to turn Cole and wasnt even looking at him! if you look was tryin to trap the ball but Cole was 2 quick so caught him! didnt mean to catch him! u cud see this when he was the first player up to say sorry! at least Cole didnt do a Campbell and go off crying and wouldnt shake hands! Another Wenger product! never seen him do that at Spurs! Arsenal fans have alot to be proud of!!

SteM

Mossy Monk wrote:

i shouted "no ****ing way", rooney is a little tramp

You're the only one then. I was watching the match with mates, 50/50 split between Liverpool and United fans and even the Liverpool fans in full ABU mode thought it was a penatly when they first saw it.

The Muppet

Big Nelly wrote:

Ok I am a real neutral! Shef Wed all the way!!

From my point of view there is a few things to clear up!

1. Ferdinand should have been yellow carded and free kick to Arsenal! no red card! Ljungberg last control of ball ..................................................

Thats a good post and fair comment. I don't necessarily agree with all of it but its more in line with what I would expect from a truly neutral view of yesterdays game. When United are involved there are very Neutrals but your post is very balanced , Fair dues.

Big Nelly

The Muppet wrote:

Big Nelly wrote:

Ok I am a real neutral! Shef Wed all the way!!

From my point of view there is a few things to clear up!

1. Ferdinand should have been yellow carded and free kick to Arsenal! no red card! Ljungberg last control of ball ..................................................

and ur point is? :rolleyes:

A Dub in Glasgo

Mossy Monk wrote:

i shouted "no ****ing way", rooney is a little tramp

Well I did not want to swear on a forum

The fact is that almost everybody (IMO) thought Campbell had fouled Rooney therefore a penalty was given. The numerous camera angles bar one seemed to confirm it was a penalty.

Mossy Monk

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The fact is that almost everybody (IMO) thought Campbell had fouled Rooney therefore a penalty was given. The numerous camera angles bar one seemed to confirm it was a penalty.

i agree with this, i must have great eyes or something i fear for man city on wednesday night. arsenal will be out to punish someone for what happened yesterday

Draupnir

I may have gotten a bit lippy in here last nite folks, sorry if I pissed anyone off majorly.

I dont think anyone can have a totally neutral view of the game so arguing the minor incidents is impossible. Even the major ones are hard.

My point of view is that the penalty wasnt a penalty, not if you have slow motion replays or are either Campbell or Rooney. From the refs or linesmans point of view at the time, it looked like a blatant peno so he gave it. And thats all he can be expected to do.

My initial reaction to the RvN thing on Cole was that it was a horror tackle, havent seen it more than twice but all I can say is that Cole was moving at a fair rate of knots so the only defense RvN has could be that he was trying to get his body in the way, although I must admit, that doesnt hold a lot of water even with me.

I thought United were slightly more deserving of the win though as Arsenal never really went for the win.

I didnt think Ferdinand should have gone as Freddie had knocked the ball too far ahead anyway and it was shoulder to shoulder. Another thing is that he sprawled on the deck as soon as he could, and Ljungberg is very strong normally so it could be possible he was trying to get Rio sent off.

I think these things even themselves out over the course of a season anyway. Some of the reports of food being thrown over Fergie sound like we might be seeing some Arsenal bannings and fines this week, and Id imagine RvN will be up in front of the FA too for the tackle.

Big Nelly

Draupnir wrote:

I think these things even themselves out over the course of a season anyway. Some of the reports of food being thrown over Fergie sound like we might be seeing some Arsenal bannings and fines this week, and Id imagine RvN will be up in front of the FA too for the tackle.

Just heard that it seems one of the Arsenal players threw soup over him! actually if you remember his interview afterwards he was changed from his suit into a track suit! prob Henry! he was complainig to Carroll and Ferdinand for ages after the game in the middle of the park!!

Can see how RvN can be up in front of FA! cudnt see the player so how can he be charged? did Redknapp get charged for his tackle on Cahill earlier this season? that was 10 times worse and he cud see the player coming at him!

Draupnir

good point! the FA dont normally worry about stuff like that though, look at the Beckham intentional booking incident

Jivin Turkey

Pretty awful game. Hardly any goal action/shots until the peno. United probably just shaded it for me but even the 2-0 margin flattered them a bit. Always a danger of a second goal though if a team is chasing the game.

Absolutely no point in moaning about the peno. It wasnt a peno, but they should have had another one 5 minutes after. Perfect example of how things even themselves out. No one can argue with that.

Its funny seeing some peoples views on the game. Thinking 6 or 7 people should have been sent off? Get a grip folks.

The only possible sending off decision for me was the Ferdinand thing. People are saying Ljungberg didnt have the ball as the excuse. Well if he didnt have the ball Ferdinand shouldnt be tackling him. Also they showed on angle (the one they usually use for offsides I think, from the side of the pitch) and Carroll was no where to be seen. Personally, I think Ljungberg at full pace would have definately been in if it wasnt for Ferdinand, but it annoys me to see players going down so easily, so I wasnt exactly disappointed to see the ref leave it. Why didnt Ljungberg just go for it? Total waster, could have won the game for Arsenal if he wasnt looking to just get Ferdinand sent off.

All in all, United can take heart in ending Arsenals run. But it had to end sometime. They are still miles of the pace. And this "oh we can go on a run now" mentality means nothing until that run is put together (it was supposed to happen after the Liverpool game). Reminds me of old Liverpool speak "Oh we will win it next year (which we will )".

The title is still going to be decided between Arsenal and Chelsea in my opinion.

PHB

Can somebody tell me what Ferdinand did wrong?

He shoulder charged the player, shoulder to shoulder, and the player fell down.
How exactly is that a foul?

The Muppet

I,m just watching a replay of the match on MUTV and Paddy Crerand says Campbell on Rooney was definitely a penno. Thats good enought for me,

PHB

BTW

Manchester United Team Statistics Arsenal
2 Goals 0
0 1st Half Goals 0
5 Shots on Target 1
5 Shots off Target 7
2 Blocked Shots 4
3 Corners 3
20 Fouls 24
2 Offsides 1
2 Yellow Cards 3
0 Red Cards 0
75.6 Passing Success 77.2
58 Tackles 61
46.6 Tackles Success 49.2
48.3 Possession 51.7
41.1 Territorial Advantage 58


1 Shot on target in the entire game, that was Henrys shot which was saved.
Thats it. Deserved to win? Created chances? Not in the real world

Töpher

Rooney should be fined or punished for that though. I'd like to see a match ban for cheating and unsporting behaviour, same as if he'd got a red card. It's blatantly obvious from several angles that he just threw himself on the floor, which tbh makes a mockery of the referee (although he seemed to take care of that himself! ) and the rules. I know it happens alot, decisions on actual incidents going the wrong way, (such as Ronaldo's penalty claim), but when the player cheats for it it should be considered as unsporting as pretending a player hit you or deliberately kicked a ball into your face. It's actually disgusting, and makes a mockery of the game, and the authorities associated with it. Even on MOTD2 last night they didn't even condemn it, which pisssed me off no end too! Ack!

smemon

i see the fa might look at the cole-van nistelrooy challenge, usually i'd get hot and bothered over that but i dont care, we have 3 class acts if he gets banned and anyway, it was worth it as cole was going to clatter into van anyway.

a 3rd consecutive clean sheet for utd, signs our defence is returning to that of a champions defence ( ).

long way to go but this game will show everyone arsenal are by no means 'better than man utd' man for man.

utd had to win it, and what did they do?? WON IT. now lets go back to the fa cup last year and championsleague matches were arsenal went into both games under pressure to win as they were favourites, what did they do??? lose both.

beating fulham, bolton, southampton etc.... is were arsenal excel, they're playing against weakish teams with not much attention or hype on the match like say a champs league knock out stage or fa cup match would have.

their infamous ability to choke on big occasions shows they're bluffers. play like a great team on the training pitch but cant do it when the spotlight is on. this game was a chance for arsenal to announce their dominance and throw utds season into tatters. champions are supposed to be able to handle pressure, perhaps thats why arsenal have never retained the league.......

cournioni

I thought Graham Poll gave a fair assessment of the game on Sky Sports News. A few of you Arsenal fans should have a listen to what he says.

jank

eh does your football knowledge go back before the premiership :rolleyes:

oh and ill hold you to that come May

Utd didnt out play arsenal at all and at the end of the day we are talking about the ref and not football which is a shame and proves my point that the ref had a major influnence of the out come of the game.

Arsenal were playing for the draw then bam peno! changed the whole game so roanldos incident even though it was a peno could not have been factored in like the second goal where arsenal were pushing men forward

Utd didnt look like scoring from open play(before peno), neither did arsenal and the game looked like it was heading for a draw.

So after all the talk its the ref we are talking about not any tactics or great play from either side

Arsenal didnt deserve to win it but based on yesterdays performace neither did utd, but thats life!

LegacyUser

kida wrote:

My Summary
1. Rooney Incident wasn't a penalty even though it looked it from all angles bar one - Can't blame the referee - maybe the linesman
2. Ronaldo incident was penalty - and another booking for Cole and so off.
3. Ferdinand incident could have been given as a foul but it did not deny a clear goal scoring opportunity as he had played the ball too far ahead and thus no red card. I think he was playing for something as he turned as Rio went to shoulder him.
4. Viera should have been sent off for both persistent cynical fouling and mouthing at the referee.
5. Toure should have been booke for his 7.9 in the area.
6. Bergkamp should have gone for the elbow - if they use video evidence on Ruus they shoudl also review this.
7. Viera, Campbell and Wenger should all be up for bringing the game into disrepute for comments about the referee.

As someon else mentioned what is it with the BBC they showed every controversial United incident and no Arsenal one - IMHO the Bergkamp incident was fat worse than Ruuds - where was the outcry there?

I totally agree with you.

As for the BBC, you should see their ridiculous player ratings. Totally inaccurate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/3948815.stm

cournioni

cheesedude wrote:

I totally agree with you.

As for the BBC, you should see their ridiculous player ratings. Totally inaccurate.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/3948815.stm

Yeah, they also said that Arsenal had 6 shots on target... :rolleyes:

****.

therecklessone

PORNAPSTER wrote:

I thought Graham Poll gave a fair assessment of the game on Sky Sports News. A few of you Arsenal fans should have a listen to what he says.

And don't miss Jeff Winter's comments either. He pointed out that:

1. Arsenal weren't throwing a hissy fit when Pires dived agaist Portsmouth last year to earn his side a penalty, and
2. Sol Campbell plays with Rooney for England and would congratulate Rooney for doing exactly the same in an international.

Its not the inconsistencies in refereeing that managers and players abhor, its those inconsistencies working against their team.

Its about time we had some honesty from all involved in the game.

smemon

you'd hardly notice bergkamp, henry and pires were playing. wimps afraid of a hostile match.

where were the fancy 1-2's and dazzling runs yesterday? arsenal weren't up for the game (most of them). they didnt deserve anything from the game as they played for a draw.

lack of passion cost arsenal the game, all the arsenal hard men moaning after the match when they should accept the decision and play on looking for a goal. there was plenty of time left to score, the penalty didnt cost arsenal the game, they just didnt have enough to get past a fired up utd defence.

unbeaten in 13 now for utd in all comps, 6 clean sheets in those games too. get the goals in and we'll be back to our old selves.