U.S Presidential Elections - Dare to call it?

omnicorp

em, it turns out "Land of the Free" America isn't really a democracy.
oh, and I think a Bush up the ass would serve Those gun-totting Americans right.
Tell them that the world is not their plaything.

MeatProduct

Kerry has it cause he has the more royal blood and for some strage reason that seems to count in US presidential elections!

Nick

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

OfflerCrocGod

I don't care. It wont make a difference the US is still going to screw the rest of the world and it will still be able to do what it wants when it wants. At least Bush doesn't try to hide that fact, Kerry will smile and wave while he's doing it.

Victor

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

It wont make a difference the US is still going to screw the rest of the world and

The difference is Kerry will kiss you when he is screwing you.

nutkase

http://www.comedycentral.com/games/gameplayer/play.jhtml?game=/tv_shows/indecision2004/game/Kerry-Man_pre.swf&gametype=GFLASH
thats how to decide

bonkey

omnicorp wrote:

em, it turns out "Land of the Free" America isn't really a democracy.

By any reason-based standard which says that the US isn't really a democracy, you should logically end up concluding that there are no democracies on earth.

Whats your point?

jc

omnicorp

Al Gore got 51% of the vote, Bush got 46% (Nader and other small canditates got the other 3%).
Yet, legally Bush won thanks to the Electoral College system whereby the State gets different amounts of votes depending on the Population, BUT it also gets a vote for each senator it has.
So, it is possible to win an election legally without getting most votes.

Hence, no democracy.

sceptre

omnicorp wrote:

Al Gore got 51% of the vote

No he didn't.

omnicorp

He got more than Bush.

sceptre

omnicorp wrote:

He got more than Bush.

Yes he did


On the main topic, I'm finding it very hard to call in advance (understandably, lots of other people see themselves in the same boat). I reckon Kerry will take it but I've no idea on margin.

omnicorp

I think Bush will get it, I don't want him to get it, but people don't know Kerry's name which tends to be a bit of a draw back when push-comes-to-shove at a polling station.

OfflerCrocGod

omnicorp wrote:

He got more than Bush.

I read that as "He got more Bush"

omnicorp

oh so funny(!) No, what I'm getting at is America is prancoing and nancing around the world "spreading democracy" whaen they eren't really a democracy.

bonkey

omnicorp wrote:

So, it is possible to win an election legally without getting most votes.

Hence, no democracy.

Ah, now I see. YOu believe that anything which doesn't have a "one man one vote" system isn't democratic.

I take it you also accept that the EU isn't democratic either?

jc

omnicorp

yeah, I believe that any system whereby the majority of people vote one way and wins is a democracy.
Any system whereby a candidate can get most votes and LOSE is not a democracy.
If someone could explain how it is, please tell me.

steviec

omnicorp wrote:

yeah, I believe that any system whereby the majority of people vote one way and wins is a democracy.
Any system whereby a candidate can get most votes and LOSE is not a democracy.
If someone could explain how it is, please tell me.

It's the system USA has had in place since it was founded and 2000 was not the first time the man with less total votes won. Winning a few states by a landslide and losing the rest by a small margin might get you the popular vote but won't win the election. This year could actually go the opposite way, with Bush winning the popular vote and Kerry being elected. And you won't get the same people calling Kerry an illegitimate president.

Whether or not its an ideal system is debatable but most countries are similar and everyone knows the rules before the election and candidates campaign accordingly, if the popular vote counted there'd be less concentrating on swing states and votes would go differently, so it can't really be blamed for giving 'wrong' election results.

FatherTed

omnicorp wrote:

yeah, I believe that any system whereby the majority of people vote one way and wins is a democracy.
Any system whereby a candidate can get most votes and LOSE is not a democracy.
If someone could explain how it is, please tell me.

Isnt is also possible for a party in Ireland get 51% of the votes cast in the country and still lose the election? So, by your theory Ireland is not a democracy too?

segadreamcast

Indeed, it also went that way in 1882 (?)

segadreamcast

omnicorp wrote:

I don't want him to get it, but people don't know Kerry's name

Oh come on now - what the heck is that? People know Hitler's name, they certainly aren't going to vote for him...

On another note your argument lacks logic - you actually presume that the vast majority of Americans are ignorant and totally oblivious to the second party in this election?!?

Madness.

In_Diana_Jones

NoelRock wrote:

Oh come on now - what the heck is that? People know Hitler's name, they certainly aren't going to vote for him...

On another note your argument lacks logic - you actually presume that the vast majority of Americans are ignorant and totally oblivious to the second party in this election?!?

Madness.

Please be Bush...please!

In_Diana_Jones

Third_Echelon wrote:

kerry... for the same reason...

I have this funny feeling in the back of my mind though that bush will win somehow... friends in high places like the last time around may come to the rescue.. democracy my arse!!!

Bush I hope.

what's undemocratic about it?

In_Diana_Jones

gandalf wrote:

Unfortunately at this moment I think Bush will win it and that outcome makes me sick to my stomach!

Bush for President.
The lesser of two idiots!

Victor

omnicorp wrote:

I think Bush will get it, I don't want him to get it, but people don't know Kerry's name which tends to be a bit of a draw back when push-comes-to-shove at a polling station.

He just has to introduce himself as "JFK". Oh, the irony that JFK I sent* JFK II to Vietnam and JFK I got shot in Dallas.

* You know what I mean.

omnicorp

Dear God, we're ruined, another four years, get out those Nuclear bomb shelters, I have a feeling that the market for them will rise.
Well, we lasted four years, maybe we'll last another four, we just have to be string.