Firearms Acts Amendments

Sparks

From listening to comments made by the Minister on the radio today regarding the statistics on gun crime, it appears that there will be at least three amendments to the Firearms Act; the secure storage amendment we've already heard about; one giving a mandatory sentence for possession of a sawn-off shotgun of either 5 or 7 years (to be decided in the Dail); and a third to do with firearms possession that I didn't catch fully (anyone hear the full comment on the radio news at 2200?).

Nothing said regarding pistols in any way though, at least not in the report.

fiacha

the gardai were on crimeline pushing the secure storage issue tonight.

best quote of the show "...halogen floodlights are very important, especially at night"

civdef

Question that struck me yesterday, with the new amendment, if your Super says you need a titanium safe, with 12 hours fire resistance and retinal recognition - have you any course of appeal?

Irishglockfan

QUOTE]Question that struck me yesterday, with the new amendment, if your Super says you need a titanium safe, with 12 hours fire resistance and retinal recognition - have you any course of appeal?[[/QUOTE]

As the way it stands as far as I read it in the law .Nope! This is the problem the law gives too much power to the super INMO to impose excessive restrictions.As your above example,i suppose you could try for a judical review as the above security impositions as excessive.

Possesion of a sawn off shotgun!! Whatever next!! Considering that there is already a minimum length of 24ins on the barrel [apart if you own a 16in winchester 1896 trench gun]. Mr Mc Dowell could do with reading the already in law firearms laws.It is already an offence to chop the barrel below 24ins.There is no OVERALL length specified!!!

Well if thats going to be all gun cabinets,sawn off shotguns.Thats liveable sofar.-Would like the min length shotgun barrel brought to 16ins tho]

Sparks

Irishglockfan wrote:

Considering that there is already a minimum length of 24ins on the barrel [apart if you own a 16in winchester 1896 trench gun]. Mr Mc Dowell could do with reading the already in law firearms laws.It is already an offence to chop the barrel below 24ins.There is no OVERALL length specified!!!

Actually Glock, there's no law that says a sawn-off is illegal - just a definition that rules that it is not a "sporting firearm". And prior to June, you wouldn't get a licence for it on that basis. But with that policy gone, we're in the odd circumstance of sawn-offs being technically legal (though no Super in his right mind would give you a licence for one, obviously). But it is technically legal.


And civ, no, just a High Court judicial review. And while it's definitely a case for the soliciters, I think Dunne v. Donoghue means that noone can tell the Super what preconditions he can or cannot impose.

Sparks

There's a PQ being asked today, presumably on the behest of the NARGC:

*294. To ask the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if he will remove
Section 30 of the Criminal Justice Bill 2004 which amends Section 4 of the Firearms Act
1925; if he will introduce an appropriate amendment to the Firearms Act 1925 as requested
by the National Association of Regional Game Councils; and if he will make a statement
on the matter. — Joe Costello. [26172/04]

Sparks

Okay, just following on from the news stories about firearms crime in yesterday's news, we have stories today in the Irish Times here, Irish Independent here and Irish Examiner here and here.

civdef

Joe Costello of Labour said the only firm proposal offered by the Minister related to legally held weapons. “It’s the illegally held firearms we have to deal with and he has no proposals on that issue. He will make noise but he will not take action.”

Encouraging remark from the opposition.

Irishglockfan

Sparks,
the sawn off defination is in either the 1925 act or the 199[2]? act.
Either which way you aint going get it liscensed.
Think he is referring to criminals who nick somones gun and chop it down to pistol configuration.So there are three crimes already there to prosecute, unlisencsed possesion,theft of property,and possesion of an illegal weapon.

Wonder how they will deal with SHOT PISTOLS?As there are/were some pistols modelled on sawn off shotguns made for self defence and vermin disposal.

BTW the Times link demands you register and stump up 60E Per annum

Sparks

You sure about that definition Glock? A quick check and I can't find it, other than the 24" barrel length rule that defines a sporting firearm (1971 act).

So there are three crimes already there to prosecute

Don't forget possession with intent, and a few others if you actually commit the crime with it...

BTW the Times link demands you register and stump up 60E Per annum

Ah. Bugger. Right, hold on...

Gun crime, rape increase but fall in some offences
Conor Lally

Gun crime and the incidence of rape has continued to increase through the third quarter of the year despite an overall reduction in the number of headline, or serious, offences in the period, new figures from the Department of Justice reveal.

The provisional figures show a 40 per cent increase in the discharging of firearms, to 219 cases, for the first nine months of the year. Rapes of females have increased by 32 per cent, to 336 cases.

The Minister for Justice, Mr McDowell, said measures contained in the forthcoming Criminal Justice Bill 2004 would target gun crime. However, while he welcomed the overall decrease of 13 per cent in the category of sexual offences he expressed "grave concern" at the rise in the numbers of rapes.

"The nature of the relationship between the number of rapes reported and the number of actual incidents remains a complex one. For various reasons, victims may be unwilling, or may feel unable, to report these crimes to the gardaí."

Research by his Department into this area was still ongoing and when it was completed any "shortcomings in the law" would be addressed.

While gun crime had increased, mandatory sentencing for such offences would be introduced as part of the new legislation. A new offence of possession of a sawn-off shotgun would also be introduced. However, Mr McDowell said the number of murders committed in the first nine months of the year, at 28, represented a 20 per cent decrease on the same period last year.

"We are frequently told that . . . gardaí are losing the battle against professional murderers. Yet the figures tell us otherwise."

Prosecutions in this area would be aided in the future by provisions in the Criminal Justice Bill 2004, which would allow gardaí use witness statements made to them incriminating suspects even in cases where the witness had since decided not to take part in a trial.

As well as the increases in gun crime and rapes of females, other notable increases in the first nine months of the year included:
Aggravated sexual assaults, where a weapon or threat of a weapon was used, increased by 75 per cent, to 14 cases.
Cases of unlawful carnal knowledge increased by 26 per cent, to 77 cases.
Robbery of cash or goods in transit increased by 10 per cent, to 46 cases.

Overall, the total number of headline offences committed in the period dropped by 6 per cent, to 74,728 cases. False imprisonment decreased by 20 per cent, to 37 cases. Abduction fell by 26 per cent, to 28 cases. Possession of drugs for sale or supply fell by 14 per cent, to 1,568 cases.

Labour's spokesman on justice, Mr Joe Costello, said Ireland had become "a much more dangerous place to live" since the Government took office in 1997.
© The Irish Times

Irishglockfan

Pretty much what the Indo and de Examiner articles are saying as well.
nothing new really.

Gun Shy

Sparks10-09-2004, 22:01
Incidentally, I spoke to the DoJ today about the amendments - so it's confirmed, there are amendments upcoming other than the secure storage one, and I got the impression that there are quite a few of them, but since they've not yet been published, the DoJ wouldn't give me any details without the Minister's okay.

---

Just wondering if there have been anymore developments in relation to the above and also if there has been any info forthcoming in relation to a mininum standard of Gun Safe

Sparks

Well, we wrote to him and got back a form letter that gave no details. He's since said that there will be a law against owning a sawn-off shotgun with a mandatory sentence, so that's another of the amendments; but we don't know if he's thinking of making pistols illegal yet or not.