What use are the MANs?

MarVeL

I've just finished watching the Primetime segment in another thread and reading the comments on it and it has left me with the above question. Seriously what is the best we (as private individuals or voters as we are soon to be called again) can hope for from this infrastructure?

Will it provide a better priced source of access to other ISPs, be they wireless, cable or whatever? Will it be feasible to set up a local community fibre to the home project off it? Or will it even be of any use to medium to large scale businesses?

spongebob

They are an efficient method for a Rat to transit an urban area from one side to another without getting wet . Dry rats look much cuter and they know it.

M

raeGten

Didn't the ESB set up some sort of telecommunications hub a few years ago?....is that part of the MAN structure that Prime Time were on about or is this yet another network?

Ripwave

raeGten wrote:

Didn't the ESB set up some sort of telecommunications hub a few years ago?....is that part of the MAN structure that Prime Time were on about or is this yet another network?

MAN means "metropolitan area network". Each of the MANs aer seperate networks that are centred around a single town or city. They are connected to various other networks, and some of them are connected to the ESBs own national fibre network, but they aren't part of the same thing, as such.

Ripwave

MarVeL wrote:

I've just finished watching the Primetime segment in another thread and reading the comments on it and it has left me with the above question. Seriously what is the best we (as private individuals or voters as we are soon to be called again) can hope for from this infrastructure?

It really isn't likely to make much difference in the short term.

Will it provide a better priced source of access to other ISPs, be they wireless, cable or whatever? Will it be feasible to set up a local community fibre to the home project off it? Or will it even be of any use to medium to large scale businesses?

One of the major costs for a local community wireless scheme is the cost of backhaul back to an internet backbone. proximity to a MAN won't do much for a community broadband project if the cost of connecting from the MAN to the Internet is still excessive. If there's sufficient business in a town served by a MAN, then some 3rd parties may make large capacity connections to the MAN, and sell of small blocks of that capacity to business in the area, at prices that could undercut the incumbents prices. But the MANs of them selves don't do anything to address last mile connectivity (or first mile connectivity, if you prefer). And there is no guarantee that the presence of a MAN will lead to the successful development of alternative residential services.

MarVeL

So are these sitting in the ground unused (not more dark fibre!!!) or have some businesses taken up bandwidth?


E-net's site says that :

e-net provides cost effective telecommunications products and services to licensed operators on a wholesale basis.

So does this mean they only provide bandwidth to those who are already in telecommunications or could a community group apply.

Sorry these are questions I should be asking E-net (and may well do on Monday) but these MANs are looking more and more white elephanty as I go along despite the ministers assurances they are a panacea. Must be an election due

spongebob

I unfortunately suspect that ENet will not have any offering of interest to a community group or priced accordingly.

Tell us what they say . They have full authority to offer as much or as little bandwidth as is required.

Ask for a breakdown between ongoing and connection charges in year one.

M

flamegrill

I believe Smart telecom are working with the government on providing connectivity to the MAN's. However the connectivity on sale would probably be more usefull for local ISP's. For example, a Group Broadband scheme could make use of it with a wireless ISP starting up in one of the MAN towns/cities.

The esb do very competitive back haul rates as it happens. Something in the region of 8000 euro a year for a 10mbps link. Now thats for a point to point link, you still need to add on transit costs to that. Which could be anything from 20k a year with eircom for 2mbps or 12k a year for 10mbps from say Packet exchange or similar. This requires the far end of the link that esb provide to be in a data centre where the cheaper providers have firbre.

Paul

spongebob

flamegrill wrote:

The esb do very competitive back haul rates as it happens. Something in the region of 8000 euro a year for a 10mbps link.

What is their connection charge . €8000 a year is not hideous for a national link .

A similar Metro Ethernet port in London costs €6000-8000 a year BUT with a connection charge around the €3000 mark .I hear the ESB is Wayyyyyyyy above that.

M

flamegrill

Muck wrote:

What is their connection charge . €8000 a year is not hideous for a national link .

A similar Metro Ethernet port in London costs €6000-8000 a year BUT with a connection charge around the €3000 mark .I hear the ESB is Wayyyyyyyy above that.

M

Aye the annual cost is actually quite a bit below 8k, but for confidentiality reasons i didnt publish the price given to me.

With regard to install, its quite small, as the ESB have fibre in both locations and location 1 requires a radio/microware at their POP and the second site requires an ethernet crossover from a "meet me room" in the data centre where they already have kit. The price i shant divuldge.

Just for reference sakes eircom's quote was 45k per anum and 15k install. Eircom can clearly kiss my rear

spongebob

Is the €8k = Install + Yr One Rental (Including Wireless Tail) and VLAN 'Bridging' at the other end....all in ? Thats much better than the figures I heard from the ESB in the spring then ....install wise....

The Problem with the ESB is that they would try to slap an NDA on the price of toast

M

flamegrill

Well i feel offering 10mbit/s metro ethernet connections for sub 10k in Ireland is a fairly competitive.

As i said Muck, I don't have the install price. The wireless part we are doing ourselves, but will probably cost around 20k. This is the killer. its better than 80k all the way from dublin

LFCFan

excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject, but what's the difference between 10mb/s backhaul on a MAN or ESB's Fibre Ring, compared to what you can get in Sweden for €50 a month fom an ISP? I reckon Contention is obviously 1:1 on the MAN Backhaul but surely for the sake of some extra users on the line, the difference between what an ISP offers in Sweden isn't much different, apart from a serious price difference?

Moriarty

That's just a 10mbit connection back to dublin. Your connection to the net (which you buy off a carrier in dublin) will cost more.

There's also the small problem of getting your traffic from your local MAN POP to your actual house(s).

Ripwave

LFCFan wrote:

excuse my lack of knowledge on this subject, but what's the difference between 10mb/s backhaul on a MAN or ESB's Fibre Ring, compared to what you can get in Sweden for €50 a month fom an ISP?

How much does that Swedish ISP pay for his backhaul, and how many customers is he sharing that cost between? Don't forget that that Swedish ISP is only offering that service to customers within a quarter of a mile of the exchange, so he's only paying about €5 for the actual physical connection. Your share of the cost of an 80km fibre connection from Athlone to Dublin (for example) will be considerably more tha €5/month.