Ireland tops poll in Reporters Sans Frontières Press Freedom Index

dahamsta

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

The greatest press freedom is found in northern Europe (Denmark, Finland, Ireland, Iceland, the Netherlands and Norway), which is a haven of peace for journalists. Of the top 20 countries, only three (New Zealand 9th, Trinidad and Tobago 11th and Canada 18th) are outside Europe.

I was rather surprised by this, considering our libel laws. Do they not have a chilling effect, or are press freedoms that bad in other countries?

adam

PH01

dahamsta wrote:

http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=11715

I was rather surprised by this, considering our libel laws. Do they not have a chilling effect, or are press freedoms that bad in other countries?

adam

All we need now are some good reporters.

Hobbes

Press is free here? You not remember how quickly Bushes picture in Dromoland was censored.

mycroft

Exactly Hobbes, I think there Irish Press tends to exercise a great deal of self censorship, not reporting certain facts for fear of libel.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

spanner

really the press have loads of freedom, the libel laws are there for a reason, once the journalist can prove that the story is truthful and accruate there is no problem. usually theres censorship for stupid reporting that can damage a persons reputation, just look in england with the john leslie affair the press absolutely ripped him apart.

serious question here, does anyone know of a case were a journalist was unfairly censorship

uberwolf

spanner wrote:

does anyone know of a case were a journalist was unfairly censorship

isn't that the point though, that we wouldn't find out about the situation.

mike65

Me suprised at this as well. Oh and here's the picture!



Mike.

Meh

spanner wrote:

once the journalist can prove that the story is truthful and accruate there is no problem.

See, that's the problem. Libel is the only crime where the defendant has to prove their innocence. The burden of proof should be on the plaintiff like it is for all other crimes.

(Maybe if we had a proper free press, we wouldn't need all those expensive tribunals to investigate public figures...)

Victor

I think they should have also considered press ownership, which at best is incestuous and at worst cartelish.

spanner wrote:

serious question here, does anyone know of a case were a journalist was unfairly censorship

Was it Gene Kerrigan was told to retract a story about Haughey not having debts with AIB? With (in)appropriate pressure being applied?

therecklessone

spanner wrote:

serious question here, does anyone know of a case were a journalist was unfairly censorship

Mary Ellen Synon was hounded out of a job with the Sunday Independant for somr rather crass comments about the Paralympics. That's close enough I suppose...

spanner

therecklessone wrote:

Mary Ellen Synon was hounded out of a job with the Sunday Independant for somr rather crass comments about the Paralympics. That's close enough I suppose...

but no one actually censored her, she was allowed to publish her artical. and what she said really did hurt alot of people

therecklessone

spanner wrote:

but no one actually censored her, she was allowed to publish her artical.

True.

But after the article was published, state-funded health boards threatened to remove their advertising spend from the Sunday Independant. Funnily enough, the Sindo's editor published an apology and Synon disappeared from the paper.

You do the sums.

spanner wrote:

and what she said really did hurt alot of people

Also true, but is it free speech we want, or free speech (as long as you say the right things)?

Bogger77

therecklessone wrote:

Mary Ellen Synon was hounded out of a job with the Sunday Independant for some rather crass comments about the Paralympics. That's close enough I suppose...

She was free to write the article, but, just because the freedom to publish exists, she didn’t have to publish an offensive article (didn't name an individual or hint at one, so wasn't libellous). It, also, doesn't mean that it wasn't right for her to be pushed from her job.

TBH, she was, at best, a mediocre writer of the sort that the SunIndo seem to employ lots of.

therecklessone

Bogger77 wrote:

It, also, doesn't mean that it wasn't right for her to be pushed from her job.

If the reason for her losing favour at the paper was pressure from advertisers then then the decision was wrong.

Its a long time since I read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent, but doesn't he cite this very from of pressure as a form of censorship? Just because its not a liberal journalist being silenced by corporate interests doesn't mean its not wrong.

Bogger77

therecklessone wrote:

True.

But after the article was published, state-funded health boards threatened to remove their advertising spend from the Sunday Independant. Funnily enough, the Sindo's editor published an apology and Synon disappeared from the paper.

You do the sums.



Also true, but is it free speech we want, or free speech (as long as you say the right things)?

Freedom of the press works in three ways,
1) The paper can choose publish what it wants to
2) We, the public, can choose to buy and read that paper, if we so wish. We have the right to choose to boycott a paper due to its previous editions.
3) The advertisers, can choose to be associated with a news paper by placing ad's in that paper or not. An advertiser can choose not to place an ad in a paper due to it's contents.

The issue is choice and freedom of choice.

Lets be honest, one of the main hidden facilities provided by health boards in this country is care of and support for the families of mentally handicapped/disabled people. They'd have been very hypocritical to place ad's in the Indo after the comments of ME Synott.

If She'd have been so cynical and insulting of Travellers or refugees, there'd have been more uproar, but this group of people are in the situation of being unable to defend themselves against such attacks. Lets not forget, the people she disparaged are citizens of this country.

Bogger77

therecklessone wrote:

If the reason for her losing favour at the paper was pressure from advertisers then then the decision was wrong.

Its a long time since I read Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent, but doesn't he cite this very from of pressure as a form of censorship? Just because its not a liberal journalist being silenced by corporate interests doesn't mean its not wrong.

I think to call her, a journalist, is pushing the limits on what a journo is. She was a column writer, and, imho, not a very good one. Her editor made the mistake of allowing his paper to publish that drivel, that tirade of abuse. Emo Dunphy, hung-over, perhaps still drunk, wouldn't have made the fatal error of insulting the audience.

It was for business reasons, they had a bad journo losing them revenue and readership, she had to go. This wasn't some journalist doing research on the event and uncovering a scandal, and the people involved forcing the paper to hush it up. This was an occasion where somebody should have read her piece before it got to press, and hand it back to her, it simply shouldn't have been published as it was offensive without reason, discriminatory, badly wrote and misinformed.

therecklessone

Let me make one thing clear. I abhor Mary Ellen Synon, and everything she stands for. And I felt she was nothing than a sensationalist hack. As you said yourself, perfect Sindo material.

Bogger77 wrote:

3) The advertisers, can choose to be associated with a news paper by placing ad's in that paper or not. An advertiser can choose not to place an ad in a paper due to it's contents.

The issue is choice and freedom of choice.

The advertisers can choose to be associated with a paper or not, agreed. However, when the advertiser chooses to apply pressure (drop her or we drop you), they are exerting undue influence on the editorial policy of a paper. They should either advertise or not advertise, but choosing a third option (applying commercial pressure) sets a dangerous precedent. Would you feel that way if it were a multinational oil company (for example) threatening similar action against a left-wing columnist?

The issue is commercial pressure to change the content of the paper. Thats censorship.

therecklessone

I'll burn in hell for this...

Bogger77 wrote:

badly wrote

Bogger77

therecklessone wrote:

I'll burn in hell for this...

I was referring to the content of her article, rather than her spelling.


I'm dyslexic, what's your excuse

(btw: why is that such a b@stard of a word to write)

Bogger77

therecklessone wrote:

Let me make one thing clear. I abhor Mary Ellen Synon, and everything she stands for. And I felt she was nothing than a sensationalist hack. As you said yourself, perfect Sindo material.



The advertisers can choose to be associated with a paper or not, agreed. However, when the advertiser chooses to apply pressure (drop her or we drop you), they are exerting undue influence on the editorial policy of a paper. They should either advertise or not advertise, but choosing a third option (applying commercial pressure) sets a dangerous precedent. Would you feel that way if it were a multinational oil company (for example) threatening similar action against a left-wing columnist?

The issue is commercial pressure to change the content of the paper. Thats censorship.

To be honest, they got rid of her, because she'd managed to alienate the SunIndo's target audiences. Middle Ireland and Rural Ireland. These were the main groups that complained about her, and I know of some who still boycott the paper.

therecklessone

Bogger77 wrote:

I'm dyslexic, what's your excuse

I'm a cnut. And I type too fast.

Seriously, lighten up. I just though I'd pull your leg after you accused MSE of poor standards when you should have said "badly written", not "badly wrote". I'm hardly a lesson in grammar myself.

Sorry if I caused offence

therecklessone

Bogger77 wrote:

To be honest, they got rid of her, because she'd managed to alienate the SunIndo's target audiences. Middle Ireland and Rural Ireland. These were the main groups that complained about her, and I know of some who still boycott the paper.

Well, TBH, if it took that article for people to realise what a rag the Sindo is then I'd ahve serious questions to ask about their judgement in the first place.

therecklessone

Final comment for the moment.

http://www.freemedia.at/wpfr/Europe/ireland.htm

In a highly controversial article published in The Sunday Independent on 22nd of October 2000, the limits of free speech were rigorously tested. Mary Ellen Synon, a weekly contributor to The Sunday Independent wrote a highly controversial article concerning the athletes participating in the Paralympics, that were taking place in Sydney at the time. Ms. Synon referred to the athletes as "cripples", and the participation in disabled sports "grotesque". She persisted with her provocative language and wrote "One must question the propaganda that says one ought to applaud the physical performance of the lame as we applaud the physical performance of the fit … It is part of the propaganda that wants to convince you that all cultures are equal in value, that all lives are equal in value and that all philosophies are equal in value." Naturally these remarks caused public outrage. The insult and injury that Ms. Ellen’s views caused were endemic.

The editor of The Sunday Independent failing to realise initially the public’s abhorrence at Ms. Ellen’s comments, issued an unapologetic statement on the Tuesday at noon, enunciating the importance of a free press, and of the paper’s conviction that no columnist should be censored.

Later that evening, following a threat from the Health Boards to withdraw their lucrative advertising deals from The Sunday Independent, the editor delivered and apology for Mary Ellen Synon’s article on the Sunday. Ms. Synon has not written for the paper since. The editor of The Sunday Independent, Mr. Aengus Fanning, denied that commercial considerations or fear of prosecution influenced his decisive u-turn in opinion.

Bogger77

therecklessone wrote:

I'm a cnut. And I type too fast.

Seriously, lighten up. I just though I'd pull your leg after you accused MSE of poor standards when you should have said "badly written", not "badly wrote". I'm hardly a lesson in grammar myself.

Sorry if I caused offence

I know, and grammar isn't affected by it, anyhow, doubt anyone who writes or wrote for that rag will notice