Gardai joining age increased to 35.

Sleipnir

So what do you all think of this? Good/bad to have older gardai joining
up with people 17 years their junior?

Personally, I don't think it will make a huge difference. Most people of 30 odd years are probably already earning twice what you make as a garda trainee.
Can they afford to halve their pay for 3 years while they train down in Templemore?

I also think the training time is far too long at 3 years, NZ have a very good one which lasts a total of 18 months.
I knew an American seasonal cop who did a six week training course and then they gave him a gun!
It's stupid that traineee Garda's have to go to Irish class!

Guy:Incognito

Sleipnir wrote:

It's stupid that traineee Garda's have to go to Irish class!

Surely the whole Irish thing will have to be dropped eventually with the amount of immigrants coming into the country. It's hardly fair to exclude people frm a certain job because they dont speak an minority language thats not even needed. Everyone in the country speaks english and for the vast majority its their primary language. Its like telling people in the uk they cant join unless they learn welsh.

Mighty_Mouse

And as a guard what do you say to a speeding motorist who answers "Ni Thigim" to all your charges!!

"Ni caint lom bearla"

klong

i think its a good thing theyve increased the age limit- wise heads and all that

bonkey

Stekelly wrote:

Surely the whole Irish thing will have to be dropped eventually with the amount of immigrants coming into the country.

What has the number of immigrants got to do with teh constitutional and legal standing of Irish as a language?

It's hardly fair to exclude people frm a certain job because they dont speak an minority language thats not even needed. Everyone in the country speaks english and for the vast majority its their primary language.

No, everyone in the country does not speak English.

Its like telling people in the uk they cant join unless they learn welsh.

No, its like telling people in Wales that they can't join unless they learn Welsh.

An Irish policeman can be assigned anywhere in the country, which includes Irish-speaking areas. You don't get to apply to be a Dublin cop, for example.

Whether you want to believe it or not, there are people in the Gaeltachts who speak only Irish, and they have a right by law to be dealt with by the police in Irish. Not only that, but they have a right by law to be dealt with by the police even when they're outside the Gaeltacht.

That law isn't gonna change anytime soon, so its unlikely they drop the requirement for the police anytime soon either.

jc

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Whether you want to believe it or not, there are people in the Gaeltachts who speak only Irish, and they have a right by law to be dealt with by the police in Irish. Not only that, but they have a right by law to be dealt with by the police even when they're outside the Gaeltacht.

didn't the last man who didn't know a word of english in Ireland die a few years back? he lived on some island off the coast or something.. I'd imagine most of the people are at least semi-bilingual now

Stark

Raising the joining age to 35? That's the most rediculous idea I've ever heard. What are their motivations? Do they think "older means wiser"? You need to get people in young,so you get value out of training them and also they're fitter and healthier so they're better able for patrolling the streets and the like before being confined to a desk job.

There is the issue with young gardaí of what happens when you have to confront your drunken peers on a night out, but they attempt to solve that by having them work in a different district to the one they grew up in for their first few years.

klong

NYPD take people up to 52. Ireland had the youngest cut-off point of pretty much anywhere iirc

delly

The age increase can only be a good thing, what with life experience and all that. I do think that the training time is a little bit too long tho', and with the age increase i think that there would/should be more chance of a highly skilled private sector worker joining for a spacific task such as net crime or pc related investigations. You might even get accountants joining the CAB, but afaik everybody starts off on the basic pay, and having to complete the 3 years.

On another note, i can remember there being different ads to join the Garda band some years ago. I remember being told by a family member who is a rozzer that they have the same power etc. as a regular garda, but don't do any normal garda jobs.

delly

Stark wrote:

You need to get people in young,so you get value out of training them and also they're fitter and healthier so they're better able for patrolling the streets and the like before being confined to a desk job.

I have been told by same family member that the new recruits coming out of Templemore are 'dangerous', simply cause they come out on a bit of a power trip, i've also seen this in action as well. Maybe if they got older recruits, there would be less of the brainwashing that goes on down there.

Guy:Incognito

bonkey wrote:

What has the number of immigrants got to do with teh constitutional and legal standing of Irish as a language?



jc

Because not only have they to learn english because it is th emain language in the country they will also have to learn a secondary language which is useless to them. I'd say their are very few eastern uropean, african or anyone else for that matter who is going to have an interest in Irish.


I passed Irish to the standard needed for the guards, but wouldnt have a hope of haveing even a basic conversation with anyone, and id say that is the case for a huge amount of people. So then you cant expect every guard to be fleunt, id say very few are.

People in the gealtacht areas can speak english, and for their own sake, especially in emergencies, they are probably better off speaking englsh. Besides i bet if they were trying to explain an injury to their doctor they could switch to english.

Sleepy

Of course it's a good thing. There are plenty of people who would be interested in joining the Gardaí that are over 35, an oft quoted example of whom being Irish soldiers who retire their commision.

As to the requirement to speak Irish, come off it. This is 2004, not 1904. Every resident in this country now has, or is in the process of acquiring a decent standard of English. Like it or not, it's our de facto national language. We're becoming a multi-cultural country an to exclude someone of Eastern European, African or Asian heritage from the police force because they don't have Irish is tantamount to racism. How can you ever expect our immigrants to integrate into this country if they're blocked from joining the Gardaí? Remember what happened last time on this island there was a police force that blocked membership to a section of the community?

People in the gealtacht areas can speak english, and for their own sake, especially in emergencies, they are probably better off speaking englsh. Besides i bet if they were trying to explain an injury to their doctor they could switch to english.

didn't the last man who didn't know a word of english in Ireland die a few years back? he lived on some island off the coast or something.. I'd imagine most of the people are at least semi-bilingual now

I have relations in Connemara near oughterard that only speak a few words of English. They were brought up speaking Irish and have had no need or desire to learn english. There's still many Irish people who speak just our national language.

I passed Irish to the standard needed for the guards, but wouldnt have a hope of haveing even a basic conversation with anyone, and id say that is the case for a huge amount of people. So then you cant expect every guard to be fleunt, id say very few are

The Irish that is required by State jobs is not at the fluency level. Its a requirement that the employee has basic knowledge of the language. Its only for teachers that more than this is required & enforced.

It's hardly fair to exclude people frm a certain job because they dont speak an minority language thats not even needed. Everyone in the country speaks english and for the vast majority its their primary language.

its still the National language. We're irish, not English. If they wish to apply for a job that's state driven they need to learn some Irish. That should never change.

As for the Age limit increase, its a great thing. It allows people from the military to choose to join the police force if their first 5 years is finished or if they want to get out after their second tours. It will also allow members of the other services to join, when before they may have been to old...

pickarooney

bonkey wrote:

No, its like telling people in Wales that they can't join unless they learn Welsh.

Or telling people in Switzerland they can't join unless they speak both dialects of Romansch?


As for the age limit, I reckon it can only be a good thing allowing ostensibly maturer people to make a decision to join the Gardaí.

Stark

klong wrote:

NYPD take people up to 52. Ireland had the youngest cut-off point of pretty much anywhere iirc

pickarooney wrote:

As for the age limit, I reckon it can only be a good thing allowing ostensibly maturer people to make a decision to join the Gardaí.

But isn't the new age limit a lower age limit, not an upper one.

leeroybrown

Stark wrote:

Raising the joining age to 35? That's the most rediculous idea I've ever heard. What are their motivations?

The motivations are fairly simple.

Firstly (unless I'm mistaken), the previous age limit was 25 years old. This was too low given that many people now spend longer in school, attend college and possibly travel before making a decision like this.

Secondly, and more importantly, this move is designed to allow the Gardaí to recruit people who have developed high levels of qualification, skill and experience in other fields that can be applied to a position in the Gardaí. People like this are invaluable in a modern police service.

Stark wrote:

But isn't the new age limit a lower age limit, not an upper one.

(Edit - misread) No, they've increased the maximum age a person may be on application to join the Gardaí. Any 18 year old can join subject to certain educational and physical requirements. I think the mandatory retirement age for the Gardaí remains at 57 years. I don't think there are any plans to alter this.

Sleepy

Stark wrote:

But isn't the new age limit a lower age limit, not an upper one.

Nope, they've just raised the maximum age.

seamus

leeroybrown wrote:

Secondly, and more importantly, this move is designed to allow the Gardaí to recruit people who have developed high levels of qualification, skill and experience in other fields that can be applied to a position in the Gardaí. People like this are invaluable in a modern police service.

And on top of that, there's no way in hell we're going to recruit the personnel we need in the Gardai at the current rate. Especially given the entry wage (although the perks do make up for it), many younger people will choose more money in a different career. Vocational employment, like the Gardai, only tends to appeal to people later in life.

bonkey

pickarooney wrote:

Or telling people in Switzerland they can't join unless they speak both dialects of Romansch?

The police system in Switzerland has large Cantonal aspects. You only need to be able to speak the language of the Canton you apply to, as far as I know, and you also cannot be arbitrarily transferred to another canton.

jc

Stark

Nope, they've just raised the maximum age.

Ah. In that case I take back my earlier points, increasing the maximum age is a good idea.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote:

The Irish that is required by State jobs is not at the fluency level. Its a requirement that the employee has basic knowledge of the language. Its only for teachers that more than this is required & enforced.

Someone further up the thread made a statement that it is a person right to deal with a Gaurd in irish, so unless they are fluent then its not going to work, hence my point.

pork99

Stekelly wrote:

Someone further up the thread made a statement that it is a person right to deal with a Gaurd in irish, so unless they are fluent then its not going to work, hence my point.

Wouldn't it make more sense to have a policy of recruiting a certain proportion of police officers who are fluent in Gaelic, maybe 5% to 10% who are actually have a good knowledge of it rather that the current policy of making all applicants have some superficial knowledge? Such officers could have an extra allowance in their salary for having this skill. This would better meet the contingency that someone wants to deal with the Gardai in Gaelic - fluent speakers would be available to deal with such a case properly rather than in a half-arsed fashion as I believe would happen now. As in so many other areas we have a tendency to go for quantity over quality.

Victor

Sleipnir wrote:

I also think the training time is far too long at 3 years,

Includes probation time in the station.

Sleipnir wrote:

I knew an American seasonal cop who did a six week training course and then they gave him a gun!

Criminals can buy a gun at a gun fair just like that.