Gaming Rant

flogen

As we all know GTA:SA has been released as of friday, and it is easily the biggest game of the year so far, and may well be the biggest of the year as a whole. This is without doubt the most well known 18+ game out there at the moment. Most people who can work any form of console or PC have played at least 1 of the 6 different versions of the game (if you include GTA:London).

We can all recall the Manhunt controversy, in which a supposed fan of the game killed his friend after seeing the same thing in the game. We can all recall the hysteria that followed this tragic incident. From my time working in a games shop I can most certainly recall the hypocracy that lies within parents across this city and this country.

I was a sales assistant for the launch of Vice City, and I am a sales assistant for the launch of San Andreas and I've seen history repeat itself. When I turned away children they would usually return with one of their parents. I'd get asked "Is this violent?" or something like that (if they bothered to ask at all), to which I'd reply "well, yes it is.. that's why it's an 18 cert. It includes <list of activities available in VC/SA". The parent would then justify their decision by telling the child they could only play an hour a day, or something equally stupid. Never once have I had a parent refuse to buy the game after they hear what it's about.
This is what annoys me the most though. These parents aren't deadbeats. They're just lazy and maybe ignorant. They are, however the first behind Tipper Gore when things go wrong. God forbid their child ever got into trouble in some way or another they'd be the first to cry outrage at this filthy game that has corrupted their innocent child, they of course ignore how their 12 year old managed to get a copy of it. They demand the heads of these games producers on a plate, they demand the government ban this filth, they demand someone else protects their children, because they're too lazy to give a sh*t. Why do you think it's an 18's game? Why do you think it's illegal to sell this to a young child?

My manager told me that after the Manhunt incident they were forced to take down their stock of the game for a while, much to his disgust. I'm just sick of parents getting on their high horse regarding these things when they can't be bothered doing something effective at the root. Don't get me wrong, I'm certain there are parents that have denied their children this game, and similar because they don't feel they're old enough, but I'd put good money on it that it's the ones that don't bother that kick up the most stink when things go bad. Then they just forget about it and buy the next bloody kill-fest for their just-out-of-nappies child.
Also, if a parent knows what their getting their child, and is happy with the message in the game, the content and the conuntations of it thats fine. Once they know what it's all about and they don't try and blame anyone else. I mean, some people are happy to let their kid watch a violent 18+ film, and that's their choice, I'm all about personal choice over censorship as long as they know the decision rests in their hands and they have the ability to stop it.

Today I was getting a copy of SA for a woman at the till. The manager said jokingly to me "Is that for her 2 year old? Make sure you warn her about the chance of her son trapping his finger when the CD drawer shuts, it can be very dangerous. Otherwise you're grand.", truthfully she probably would have been more concerned with that warning than any other.

/rant

flogen

magick

its like in the usa in the 50s when they blamed comic books causing "evil deeds" in the kids , same scare tactic different media to blame it on.

smemon

couldnt agree more, when going in to pick up my copy there were countless, u18's in there getting it too, parents by their side.

tbh, its a game, hugely entertaining for all ages. i dont think it does damage to kids minds, unless they have a mental disablility. parents who moan about violence in games are a joke as ultimately they are the ones responsible for getting the game.

i love games like gta as its like sticking 2 fingers up at the moaners and fusspots.

Stormfox1020

While in the states, at the release of GTA 3 we were checking the ID's of everyone we sold a game to, even 30-40 year olds it was the law and we would get fined individuly if we broke the law. It was kind of ironic actually because I was 16 at the time and i wasnt able to sell the game to 17 year old's . I got a great (possibly evil) crack out of refusing to sell the game to whiny american kids. So when I saw 8-9 year olds buying Vice city in the shops I was quite disgusted.

rainbow kirby

Lol...
When I was in work today, this guy (about 16-ish) came in to the shop, he'd come in from town looking for San Andreas because he couldn't find a copy in town. When he came into us, he'd been pretty much everywhere else in the square and couldn't find one.
We had stock.
I asked him for ID.
*insert sound of soul being crushed here*
Then obligatory skanger whine. 'buh i came all de way from towin!'

I found it funny. I'm an evil bitch sometimes.

flogen

Stormfox1020 wrote:

So when I saw 8-9 year olds buying Vice city in the shops I was quite disgusted.

That's one thing I forgot to add in my rant above

I know there are plenty of shops that don't care if you're 8 or 80, they just want your cash. I'm not going to suggest that the company I work for considers the potential innocence of a child more important than money, but personally I would never sell a game to a kid, no matter how bad I felt about depriving them. Also the constant scrutiny the big chains are under on the matter means that not adhering to the rules would be at a great cost to their company and best avoided (not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it wouldn't be company policy to attract bad publicity).
For example, I heard after the Manhunt story broke, The Irish Independent sent out 8 kids to try and buy the game for a feature. None of them got it. Naturally each shop was ultra-aware at that point due to the media coverage, but I don't think the result would be all that different at any other time (at least in the big chain shops). Imagine how bad it would look for one company to be the only place that sold the game to a kid!

flogen

flogen

rainbow kirby wrote:

Lol...
When I was in work today, this guy (about 16-ish) came in to the shop, he'd come in from town looking for San Andreas because he couldn't find a copy in town. When he came into us, he'd been pretty much everywhere else in the square and couldn't find one.
We had stock.
I asked him for ID.
*insert sound of soul being crushed here*
Then obligatory skanger whine. 'buh i came all de way from towin!'

I found it funny. I'm an evil bitch sometimes.

lol. yeah, I do feel bad sometimes, others (when they get all arsey about it) I'm glad in a way! tis all part of the job.
We had a guy in today and he was asked for ID, frankly I wouldn't have asked him cos he looked over 18, but he got all upity about it, and acted offended. He asked his mate to go to the car and get ID for him, a bit later he came back and said he had none (I wondered why he would be driving without his licence on him ). The way he acted afterwards made me think he may have been under 18. Ah well!

flogen

Placebo

rainbow kirby wrote:

Lol...
When I was in work today, this guy (about 16-ish) came in to the shop, he'd come in from town looking for San Andreas because he couldn't find a copy in town. When he came into us, he'd been pretty much everywhere else in the square and couldn't find one.
We had stock.
I asked him for ID.
*insert sound of soul being crushed here*
Then obligatory skanger whine. 'buh i came all de way from towin!'

I found it funny. I'm an evil bitch sometimes.

LMAO !!!! classic.

also well said flogen, cant agree more although i find the INFLUENCE from such games quiet comical, you have to be very simple minded to be brainwashed by video games, movies may have more of an affect but they dont so games are out of the questions, CULT Movies would be a totally different topic.

KdjaCL

Bang on there , if parents allow their kids to play it cant really blame the game. I was playing umm all yesterday when my bro came up with his kid i switched over to football as i said he shouldnt be seeing the gmae or playing it. When i went to make tea both were playing it (kid is 8 ) only reason i was playing it during day was kids were out wouldnt let em see or play with the game until they 18

And its mine mine MINE!!!!!!!!!!!


kdjac

RuggieBear

i was in GAME on Dawson St the other day and a 12yr kid was with his mother, trying to buy the original GTA3/VC. The manager of the shop was actually quite funny about it...something along the lines of "well if you don't mind your son beating up prostitutes, killing people with baseball bats and shooting police officers....then it's a great game!!!"

The mother looked at me for a secondary opinion and i told her i agreed that it was unsuitable for children...if looks could kill: one very embarrassed and pissed off 12yr old!

But i say fair play to the manager and fair play to the mother to actually ask why "a simple game" would have an 18 cert.

On another note, legally, can someone underage get an over 18 product even with parental consesnt? Seems a bit stupid if they can, imo!

Absolam

What I can't believe is, a huge number of parents are quite happy to buy their children games containing truly graphic violence, so Grand Theft Auto no problem, but when I worked in a shop for the Perfect Dark launch, many parents decided not to buy that, not because of the violence, but because there was a cut scene of the heroine in her underwear......It seems in good Catholic Ireland it's acceptable to beat up grannies with a baseball bat, or shoot someone, or steal cars, but we draw the line at semi naked women

Deadwing

Most parents still dont have a clue about games, or consoles or whatever. They still think along the lines of games being like pac man. That all games are just stupid video games with eggs wearing boxing gloves or italian plumbers jumping on malformed monsters heads. They really fail to realise the games nowadays can be just as graphic, and have as much of an impact as any movie.

Movies are given 18's certs for a reason, as are games. I was talking to my sister last night, and she mentioned people had been queing outside shops to get thier hands on SA, and said 'yeah my friend had a real hard time buying it for her little brother'. Her friends brother was only 14, and found it a little hard to realise that these games really arent suited to under 18s, i had to explain that in SA you can beat up whores, pimp women, shoot cops, sell drugs, etc etc.

Parents just need to be educated about games until they realise that theyre no longer 'just for wee little kiddy winkies' and that, no not all games have happy endings, floating platforms, rainbows and sunshine.

Swifty

The day I got my copy a few cousins visited our house with their kids. Two boys 9 and 12. First thing they said to me when they got in the door was "Hey did you get San Andreas?!" (They are aware of my greasy nerd game fascination). I said I did and I let them go up to my room and play it. I'm such a bad person. It felt like I was destroying their innocent minds when I had to explain the best way to obtain money in the game was to plough over prostitutes in you car Later they told me they would be getting the game for christmas.

That got me thinking would I let my kids play a game like this if I ever do have kids. I don't think I would if they were 9 or 12. Some of the content in SA shocks even me, it's the most violent and explicit GTA yet.

knifey_spoonie

When i went to buy the game your man a the counter asked if i was over 18 , i said yes , the way he said sounded as if he was forced to say it and as long as the answer he got was yes he did'nt care

Jammer

turn on WWE on a saturday morning and see HHH whacking someone with a sledgehammer...REAL people smacking other people with chairs/sledgehammers etc etc. IMO thats worse

Blaming computer games is just easier then blaming neglegence....

honru

Also, the boxart for (at least) the last three Grand Theft Auto games have had relatively cartoony illustrations, and most parents still live in a world where they believe that cartoony graphics are aimed at kids and teenagers. The 18s rating is there for a reason; the stuff you'd find in San Andreas is worse than most 18s movies.

cHilliSheep

rainbow kirby wrote:

Lol...
When I was in work today, this guy (about 16-ish) came in to the shop, he'd come in from town looking for San Andreas because he couldn't find a copy in town. When he came into us, he'd been pretty much everywhere else in the square and couldn't find one.
We had stock.
I asked him for ID.
*insert sound of soul being crushed here*
Then obligatory skanger whine. 'buh i came all de way from towin!'

I found it funny. I'm an evil bitch sometimes.

You most deffo are an evil bitch, im sorry but id hit you if it was me in that situation..


Halo 2 has had over 1,000,000 preorders which gives it the highest ever prerelease sales record. YEY! COME ON XBOX! But after playing GTA, im not sure if it can top it, more like it cant. at all. ever. damn..

Jammer

cHilliSheep wrote:

You most deffo are an evil bitch, im sorry but id hit you if it was me in that situation..

its THE LAW, not much you (or her) can do about it..

frodi

I think that some of the ratings are a bit of a joke. I've let my 10 year old son play GTA VC (belonged to a 10 y.o. friend of his) I watched them as they played. They were both well able to differinitate between real life violence and cartoon violence. I saw a lot worse violence in Lord of the Rings which was 12PG. A lot comes down the the kid who knows the difference between games/films/cartoon and real life. I think that it also lets him work out his natural aggression on the game 9new controller every three months or so) rather than on his siblings.

Sarky

frodi wrote:

I saw a lot worse violence in Lord of the Rings which was 12PG

He STABS him with the arrow... Then SHOOTS him! With the arrow!

flogen

frodi wrote:

I think that some of the ratings are a bit of a joke. I've let my 10 year old son play GTA VC (belonged to a 10 y.o. friend of his) I watched them as they played. They were both well able to differinitate between real life violence and cartoon violence. I saw a lot worse violence in Lord of the Rings which was 12PG. A lot comes down the the kid who knows the difference between games/films/cartoon and real life. I think that it also lets him work out his natural aggression on the game 9new controller every three months or so) rather than on his siblings.

Well lets not get into the argument as to what effect gaming has on children. Some say it has a huge effect, others say it has none. I think that gaming in general has a negative effect on children, but no more than watching too much TV (gaming is addictive from my experience). As for games like GTA, I don't think anyone would become extremely vicious (to the point of really damaging someone else) as a result of a game alone, it takes so much more than that. However, I do think that some children would become more aggressive when playing violent games, not neccisarily (sp?) to any huge degree, but it would have some effect.
Anyway, that's not really what my rant is about. I have more or a problem with people who blame something that they have introduced to their children when things go bad. In your situation you know what GTA is about, you've weighed up the pro's and con's and you've made a decision. If anything (god forbid) were to happen in the future you wouldn't blame the game makers because you understood what was involved and made the decision yourself. That's fine by me tbh. When I ever do have kids I'll make the decision too, although I think I'd be more likely to stop them from playing them until they were mature, but that's my perogative.

oh and regarding violence in other games that have a lower rating, I know what you mean, but I think that GTA has more types of adult content than Lord of The Rings. It's also an important point to make that GTA is just an example because its a brand new game (and it's what inspired my post). In reality good parents should have a knowledge of every game or movie their child has, be it GTA or Ratchet and Clank. I gather from your post that you play the games yourself, so that's the perfect research. It applies to every factor of life that a good parent knows a lot about their child, what their interests are and what they do as a hobby (here I am giving out parenting advice... maybe I should pop over to the parenting forum!! )

flogen

evad_lhorg

RuggieBear wrote:

i was in GAME on Dawson St the other day and a 12yr kid was with his mother, trying to buy the original GTA3/VC. The manager of the shop was actually quite funny about it...something along the lines of "well if you don't mind your son beating up prostitutes, killing people with baseball bats and shooting police officers....then it's a great game!!!"

The mother looked at me for a secondary opinion and i told her i agreed that it was unsuitable for children...if looks could kill: one very embarrassed and pissed off 12yr old!

But i say fair play to the manager and fair play to the mother to actually ask why "a simple game" would have an 18 cert.

On another note, legally, can someone underage get an over 18 product even with parental consesnt? Seems a bit stupid if they can, imo!

hahah yea i was standing right beside the manager when he said that.


Kirby: brilliant! i love the spelling of the skanger-ish language.


ive really enjoyed working the past few days cause it's so funny to see how desperate people are for this game. Ive played it and i cant say i didnt love it but there is such a thing as over hype. me personally,if i had a ps2 and xbox as well as my cube, id play metroid prime 2 more than it and enjoy it more. i love the game , dont get me wrong but it's really about the violence and not the game itself.


oh and flogen..... shut up!

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

stevenmu

smiaras wrote:

This post has been deleted.

To me that's a sign that the parents are failing, not the video game classification system. Every time the whole game controversy thing comes up it reminds me how messed up society has become, it's almost as if some people expect the government to raise their kids for them. The rating is there, if people choose to ignore it it's their own fault, not the system. If we have to explicitly tell people that it's not ok steal cars, drive around shooting the place up and running over ho's, or stand on a tram as it goes around the city shooting cops off their bikes, then we may as well just give up now.

Personally I think the worst affect GTA:SA is going to have on people is that they're going to be running around saying things like "Fo sho" and "I'm down with that, I ain't no busta".

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Keyzer

The majority of parents allow there kids to play these games to get rid of them "go on up and play the playstation"... five hours later little johnny comes back speaking like a compton rapper... Parents are just too lazy...

I have 2 nephews who play my playstation when they come over and they wont be getting near san andreas...

stevenmu

smiaras wrote:

This post has been deleted.

You're right, I think this reflects a larger problem in society where people always look to blame someone else for their misfortunes. Perhaps education would help, but I think in many cases parents will ignore ratings anyway.

Prior Of Taize

It is right to not sell 18+ games to under 18's...

The problem with Game is that the staff are complete and utter assholes...

RuggieBear

Prior Of Taize wrote:

It is right to not sell 18+ games to under 18's...

The problem with Game is that the staff are complete and utter assholes...

nice sweeping generalisation there, mate

Absolam

Prior Of Taize wrote:

It is right to not sell 18+ games to under 18's...

The problem with Game is that the staff are complete and utter assholes...

Aaaawww..diddums left his id in the car eh?

Illkillya

flogen wrote:

I was a sales assistant for the launch of Vice City, and I am a sales assistant for the launch of San Andreas and I've seen history repeat itself. When I turned away children they would usually return with one of their parents. I'd get asked "Is this violent?" or something like that (if they bothered to ask at all), to which I'd reply "well, yes it is.. that's why it's an 18 cert. It includes <list of activities available in VC/SA". The parent would then justify their decision by telling the child they could only play an hour a day, or something equally stupid. Never once have I had a parent refuse to buy the game after they hear what it's about.
This is what annoys me the most though. These parents aren't deadbeats. They're just lazy and maybe ignorant.

When I was 17 I watched Rated 18 movies. Unless you're a freak, you won't be stealing a Cossie and trying to mow down a line of Hare Krishnas after playing a video game. Most parents who allow their children to buy these games realise that their kids aren't retarded sheep, and a violent video game isn't a big deal for the average Irish teenager. This does not imply that they are lazy or ignorant, on the contrary... I'd have much less respect for the parents who don't allow their normal 17 year old to play GTA.

flogen wrote:

They are, however the first behind Tipper Gore when things go wrong.

No, they aren't. The parents who walk into your Irish game shop and specifically ask if its OK for the kid are NOT the same ones that start a riot when theres a bit of bad press. You are generalising so much in your rant, you're missing the fact that those parents are a DIFFERENT SPECIES.

The parents who walk into your shop allow their kids to watch the Simpsons. Their kids are allowed to say 'damn'. Next time the parents ask about the 18's game, ask them if they PERSONALLY were up in arms over manhunt. They will say wtf is manhunt. So many Americans parents freak out when their kids eat cocopops, because the sugar content will make him go berserk. These parents ban their kids from the Simpsons, but they are NOT the same people who you talk about in your rant. These are the parents whos kids buy Manhunter off their next door neighbour secretly.

Please do not tar decent Irish parents who understand the way things are, with the same brush as those other freaks, because your rant applies to a very very very [....] very small minority of adults in Ireland.