Kerry Won. Here the facts by Greg Palast

Sparks

I'd love to know how eleven states banning gay marriage and/or civil unions, with Bush promising to do the same at a constitutional level, translates to championing gay rights. I mean, we're not talking here about the ceremony or the words; we're talking here about property rights and the right to adopt children and raise them and a few other non-obvious things that are tied into the whole marriage theme.

Payrolls may be up in October; but look at the real figures and you'll find that the total disposable income for ordinary (earning less than $100,000 p.a.) families has fallen. You'll also note a $7 trillion national foreign debit and a $400-odd billion federal deficet - and that's before the social security creative accounting adjustments are done.

No trade war? Ask the WTO how much they charged the US in penalties over steel subsidies.

And as to 60 million can't be wrong:


What's this? Answer here.

therecklessone

Essey wrote:

Hey Sparks - can we have a bit more drama there?? 60 million people are wrong - but your right??? The unemployment rate in the US is 5.5% - whats it in Ireland? Today it was announced that payrolls in the US experienced an increase in Oct. Gay rights are championed and protected here in the US - they just cant get married - cant they in Ireland? What about a womans right to choose - what are her choices in Ireland? Trade war? No war - the US dollar is weak make US good more competitive than Europes - would buy something that was more expense - just because the Europeans are cute? Murder the English language - ever been to Cork?

Could you please - lay off the hyphens?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

steviec

Sparks wrote:

Payrolls may be up in October; but look at the real figures and you'll find that the total disposable income for ordinary (earning less than $100,000 p.a.) families has fallen.

According to CNN's exit polls, more people said they were financially better off now than four years ago. It was close(32% better off vs. 28% worse off), but it's not like the American economy has been devastated. It's recovered reasonably well from the effects of September 11th on consumer confidence etc. which threatened to destroy the economy a couple of years ago.

oscarBravo

Sparks wrote:

I'd love to know how eleven states banning gay marriage and/or civil unions, with Bush promising to do the same at a constitutional level, translates to championing gay rights. I mean, we're not talking here about the ceremony or the words; we're talking here about property rights and the right to adopt children and raise them and a few other non-obvious things that are tied into the whole marriage theme.

An interesting facet to this: several of the 11 states framed the question in such a way as to not only prevent gay marriage, but also to eliminate any marriage-like rights from gay couples.

The good news is that several of these states will probably have the bans reversed in state supreme courts, because the wordings violate requirements that such proposals have only a single, clearly-understood purpose. Also, at least one state had a different wording on the ballot from that which will be written into law, which will probably also lead to it being reversed.

MisterAnarchy

Figures:
9.3 Million people unemployed in US
4.7 Million bankruptcies declared during Bush's first 3 years in office
2.3 Million American jobs lost during Bush's first 3 years in office
489 Billion Dollars ,2003 US Trade Deficit,worst in history
401.3 Billion Dollars ,2004 military budget
Look at these figures and tell me Bush is a good president ?
The guy is a moron.
Without doubt he will go down in history as the worst leader of a first world country in the modern world.

gandalf

Any linkie to those figures Anarchy, otherwise you could pulling those figures outta your ar$e :rolleyes:

steviec

The Chamber of Commerce's Regalia has devised a chart comparing several economic indicators during the first 31/2 years of Clinton's first term to Bush's that would seem to make Bush a shoo-in for re-election: real disposable personal income up 4.8 percent under Clinton and 7.3 percent under Bush, productivity up 2.4 percent versus 14.1 percent, and the average 10-year interest rate at 6.5 percent versus 4.5 percent.

Economic growth in the third quarter of last year, in fact, hit a 20-year high, Banerji noted.

But "the unusual feature of this recovery has been the deficiency in job growth," Banerji said. "Even as you had the strongest GDP (gross domestic product) growth since (Ronald) Reagan's first term, you also had the longest average duration of unemployment. These two occurred simultaneously."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/08/15/MNGHJ88FB01.DTL

Anyone can cook the figures to make the economy look good or bad to suit their own beliefs, plus there's a lot of factors completely outside the presidents control. The one major problem with Bush though is the budget deficit, which may end up being left for future presidents to resolve.

MisterAnarchy

Any linkie to those figures Anarchy, otherwise you could pulling those figures outta your ar$e

Try the front page of Wednesdays Examiner

Victor

caulfield wrote:

Your missing the point sparks, and actually, it's 293 million Americans but course all cannot vote.

Not all 293 million people in the USA are American citizens or have the vote. [strike]A further 8-10 million Americans abroad are entitled to vote (IIRC the figure I saw was 7 million registered Democrats, but a much smaller number of Republicans).[/strike]7.1 million American citizens abroad

http://www.electoral-vote.com/info/votemaster-faq.html

dahamsta

Bush locks up Iowa

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — President Bush won Iowa yesterday, finishing the 2004 campaign with wins in all three of the states that were still up in the air on election night.
With the Iowa decision, Mr. Bush finished with 286 electoral votes and Democratic candidate Sen. John Kerry 252, and became the first Republican since President Reagan in 1984 to carry the state.
Although Mr. Kerry had conceded the race for the White House on Wednesday, the counting of absentee ballots continued in Iowa, which had been too close to call.

[...]

................

bonkey

Essey wrote:

The unemployment rate in the US is 5.5%

I thought that was the percentage of the population receiving unemployment benefits? ANyone long-enough unemployed falls out of that percentage again, right?

And - as already pointed out :

whats it in Ireland?

Less, and our growth-rate consistently outperforms the EU average...so we'd be one of the best games in this part of town.

Murder the English language - ever been to Cork?

At least in Ireland we still recognise that its the English language, rather than deciding that by simplifying some spelling, and replacing some s's with z's we can call it after our own nation.

jc

nobodythere

I suppose it's a little too late to say "vote Dean" **** it anyway, we're screwed

Victor

bonkey wrote:

I thought that was the percentage of the population receiving unemployment benefits? ANyone long-enough unemployed falls out of that percentage again, right?

Gah just lost a long reply.

Essentially yes headline unemployment numbers in the USA tie-in closely with the numbers getting benefits. Here, the "live register" includes a large number of people recieving part benefits because of part-time or temporary work, which means the figures here they don't align as closely.