IKEA are on the way

por

From the Irish Times

Ikea may be permitted by new guidelines
Liam Reid

The Minister for the Environment, Mr Roche, has said he intends to relax the current ban on superstores to allow furniture giant Ikea locate in Ireland.

He said he planned to amend the current retail planning guidelines to allow for one-off superstores in designated urban regeneration areas, but ruled out an absolute lifting of the current cap on supermarket size to allow for out-of-town shopping centres.

The proposal will be of specific benefit to Ikea, which has identified a site in the Ballymun regeneration area for its first store in this country.

The company has previously said it will only locate in Ireland if it can build its standard-size store of 28,000 square metres. The cap on the size of retail developments, outlined in current retail planning guidelines, is 6,000 square metres.

The Irish Times reported last month that Ballymun Regeneration Ltd (the Dublin City Council-owned company behind the north side urban renewal project) had held talks with representatives of Ikea in relation to a site close to the M50, which was formally earmarked for a technology park.

Mr Roche told The Irish Times that there was "pent-up demand" among consumers with thousands of Irish people travelling to Ikea stores in England. "All you have to do is take a trip down the docks to see this. I know of a company in the midlands which is doing a delivery service," he said.

Mr Roche said that, rather than providing a one-off exemption to Ikea, he favoured a "tightly worded" change to the current guidelines. This would allow one-off single retail outlets to be created, but only in areas designated for urban regeneration.

He acknowledged that there was a genuine fear among smaller retailers about the development of out-of-town shopping centres, and said mixed retail outlets or shopping centres would be excluded from the proposed relaxation. However, there were major consumer and employment benefits in lifting the cap to allow a company like Ikea to set up in Ireland.

"The issue is getting the balance right," the Minister said. "At the same time, I don't want to open the door to the type of problems that were introduced [in other countries]."

Mr Roche said he had asked his officials to examine the implications of the limited relaxation. This was with a view to drawing up detailed proposals that he intended to bring before Cabinet in the coming months.

"There are issues related to traffic that have to be examined before a final decision can be made, " said Mr Roche..

Green Party TD Mr Eamon Ryan, however, said that Ireland was "already the most car-dependent country in the world".

"A giant Ikea store without the possibility of rail connections can only add to this problem," he said. "Furthermore, if the cap on retail outlet size were to be lifted, such a decision could lead to a situation where three or four megastores ... could dominate the retail business throughout Ireland."

Ikea: success based on low-cost flat-pack furniture

With 186 superstores in 31 countries worldwide, Ikea has been part of a retail revolution based on low cost flatpack furniture and household goods.

Its 76,000 staff served 310 million customers and generated sales of over €10 billion last year.

The Ikea catalogue, which lists the 10,000 items on sale in its stores, has the largest print run in the world at 130 million copies.

Its founder, Mr Ingvar Kamprad, is believed to be one of the richest men in the world, with a fortune some put at over €45 billion. The company has disputed this figure.

The success of the company, which started off as a small furniture retailer in rural post-war Sweden, is based on its invention of flat pack furniture in the 1950s, allowing it to dramatically reduce its costs.

At least it is a step in the right direction. Hopefully more supersized store will appear in other regions

parsi

por wrote:

Green Party TD Mr Eamon Ryan, however, said that Ireland was "already the most car-dependent country in the world".

"A giant Ikea store without the possibility of rail connections can only add to this problem," he said

Oh yeah - why don't we extend the Luas to it so people can bring home their wardrobes and beds ...

Sleipnir

parsi wrote:

Oh yeah - why don't we extend the Luas to it so people can bring home their wardrobes and beds ...

Jeez he makes no sense. They must have asked him for a comment when he was in the pub.

Xterminator

Green Party TD Mr Eamon Ryan, however, said that Ireland was "already the most car-dependent country in the world".

I think it highlights the teletubby land people like the Greens seem think we live in. Their non-sensical policys are based on wishful thinking and not costed through.

I have no problem with most of their ideals, but they just dont have a clue about life in the real world.

Here is an example of somethig that can be done to combat the higher prices Irish people pay, compared to the rest of europe for goods. Of course they Greens object. They are above such things as simple fiscal policy etc.

X

ixoy

I applaud this... and does anyone feel sorry for the smaller shops, charging the higher prices, that cause us to have these planning restrictions?

okidoki987

Bring on IKEA, then we'll see what happens to the disgraceful prices that some of the furniture stores in this land are charging us.
At least then we will have a choice!

tba

Lost cost flat packed furniture, hmm
no thanks
Ill stick with the high quality expensive items, thanks all the same.

bonkey

parsi wrote:

Oh yeah - why don't we extend the Luas to it so people can bring home their wardrobes and beds ...

All wit aside, the man is making perfect sense.

The vast, vast majority of times I go to IKEA (which would be 3-6 times a year), I come away with a volume of stuff that I could easily fit in one decent shopping bag (and very, very easily in the classic IKEA bag). This would hold true of a good 50%+ if the shoppers I typically see there.

Having rail - or other mass transit - to the shop makes perfect sense, so that when you go to buy your wardrobe or bed, your car-parking space isn't taken up by someone going into pick up two six-packs of cheap wine-glasses and a packet of night-lights who drove cause there was no other ceonvenient way of getting there.

I really hope IKEA do get to Ireland, cause otherwise it'll kill me when I come home. My folx were visiting recently and my mum wanted to see this famous IKEA place. "Speechless" and "staggered" would be bordering on understatements.

jc

Sleipnir

Installing a mass transit system to service one shop, no matter what size, seems silly to me.
What if they closed down after 10 years!?

bonkey

Sleipnir wrote:

Installing a mass transit system to service one shop, no matter what size, seems silly to me.

If you look at it that way, yes.

But just as they don't build roads to shopping centres, but rather require that the shopping centre be located close enough to a suitable thoroughfare....

jc

koneko

tba wrote:

Lost cost flat packed furniture, hmm
no thanks
Ill stick with the high quality expensive items, thanks all the same.

Have you bought stuff from Ikea before? The quality is actually pretty good.

Plus they have a restaurant in the building usually that sells swedish meatballs.

magpie

Anything that takes money out of the pocket of greedy, price-gouging retailers like Habitat* and puts it back in the pocket of the punter has to be a good thing. Welcome to Ireland IKEA.





*The Habitat shop on Grafton St is the second most profitable store anywhere. The most profitable being Oxford St, London, which handles 4-5 times the volume of trade. And yet, despite the enormous profitability Habitat still provides shoddy, slow and condescending service.

narommy

bonkey wrote:

If you look at it that way, yes.

But just as they don't build roads to shopping centres, but rather require that the shopping centre be located close enough to a suitable thoroughfare....

jc

Is the proposed site not adjacent to the M50/ Ballymun Junction? Surely it will be adequate as soon as the M50 is upgraded

Xterminator

bonkey wrote:

If you look at it that way, yes.

But just as they don't build roads to shopping centres, but rather require that the shopping centre be located close enough to a suitable thoroughfare....

jc

Makes sense, and in this case it will be biult just off the m50 corridor.

As for rail link, I agree the area needs it, perhaps a large employer/outlet like Ikea would make it more economically attractive.

X

dmeehan

Just a note on car dependency (see article quote from green party td) and mass transit/rail link:

The IKEA store in East Palo Alto (San Francisco Bay area) has NO PEDESTRIAN entrance. pedestrians have to go through the multi storey car park to get to the entrance

only in America :rolleyes:

michaelanthony

Yet another place for people to spend money, most likely the banks' money too.

Brenner

yipee! Ikea,

good thing I have a credit limit extension, erm, every fortnight
admittedly it serves a good purpose for the one-off, bed purchase

but isn't that CEO dude a Nazi?

Will probably shop there...

Jip

I think everyone who think that if and when Ikea start trading in Ireland you're going to get very cheap goods like those sold in other countrys are going to be bitterly disappointed. Labour, transport and warehouse costs are all more expensive in Ireland than say Scotland and this will be reflected in the cost of goods sold by Ikea.

por

Jip wrote:

I think everyone who think that if and when Ikea start trading in Ireland you're going to get very cheap goods like those sold in other countrys are going to be bitterly disappointed. Labour, transport and warehouse costs are all more expensive in Ireland than say Scotland and this will be reflected in the cost of goods sold by Ikea.

However I would expect the prices to be cheaper relative to other furniture stores in Ireland. I hope this move will result in the abolision of the maxium size planning regulation, this country needs hypermarkets built out of town close to major raoads to give people more value and choice, instaed of having to travel into town to smaller stores that are just there to rip them off. Bring on B&Q, Wal-Mart etc etc.

A Dub in Glasgo

This is good news, especially for the regeneration of Ballymun. I have only ever bought picture frames in IKEA in Glasgow, I didn't really see much else that tempted me TBH.

LFCFan

Price Club wanted to Open up here before but couldn't because of size restrictions so hopefully they will be back. A Couple of Wal Marts would be excellent.

Enii

Ikea superstore may get go-ahead - Minister
08/12/2004 - 10:33:23

Fresh moves to allow Swedish giant Ikea to open a superstore may be given the go-ahead over the next few weeks, a senior minister claimed today.

Environment Minister Dick Roche said if certain problems were tackled the Government may grant special permission for a one-off change to normal planning restrictions over the next three to four weeks.

“I will probably get the go-ahead to take further steps but we have to be absolutely sure that if we do introduce changes they won’t have unforeseen consequences,” the Wicklow TD said. “If there is any probability they would do more damage then good, then we wouldn’t move in that direction.”

The furniture retailer has provisionally planned a 28,000 sq ft superstore for Ballymun in north Dublin, which is being hailed as a major boost for the area.

“The reality of it is that particular store will locate somewhere on this island. We can either have it in the Republic or we can have it in the six counties and those are facts,” Mr Roche said.

“We have to get the balance right because you don’t want to open Pandora’s box and cause damage throughout the whole retail industry.”

The minister said any changes to the planning regulations would be “ring-fenced” to prevent further problems.

Mr Roche said there were certain locations in the country where the store could run without problems.

He said the store needed an area with a large population, a capacity for high levels of traffic and a public transport operation. The minister said the Government had to be careful that any changes to regulations would not have a negative effect on other retailers.

The Government has delayed a decision on relaxing the planning laws due to concerns about the discriminating against other major retailers and the road traffic implications of the plan.

The Environment Minister also stressed that Ireland was lagging far behind Europe in the waste disposal field.

“We have to realise in this country that we have a major, major problem, we have to catch-up because we have not invested anything like enough money in the past,” he told RTE radio.

Mr Roche said that “modern incineration” rather than old-fashioned landfills had to be part of the solution to the rubbish problem. He claimed all of his Cabinet colleagues were behind the moves.

“Simply mass burning everything is not the way, you have to recycle you have to reduce, you have to do all of those positive things,” he added.

BrianD

It's funny how the rules can be bent for special cases! The maximum floor space regulation is a blunt instrument though I can see what it is trying to achieve. I am unconvinced that the opening of large out-ot-town hypermarkets are good for anybody. Certainly the UK experience would say it isn't. They have seen the death of inner city retail and petrol deserts resulting from this type of retail development. No doubt we will soon see these hypermarkets dotted up down the length of the unneccessary motorways radiating north of Dublin destroying our landscape and encouraging urban sprawl.

Will it encourage price competition? No, is the likely answer. UK multiples have shown an uncanny ability to vary their pricing to cream Irish consumers. Their view is that Irish consumers have loads of cash and they price accordingly. Once inner city retailing is killed off, the only people who can afford to operate are the "metro" versions of the out-of-town retailers who will charge premium prices. It would be nice to see Ikea here but hypermarkets are ultimately a lose-lose situation for Irish consumers.

He said the store needed an area with a large population, a capacity for high levels of traffic and a public transport operation.

A public transport operation?? Yep the sofa, chest of drawers and the bookshelf are really going to fit onto the 19A!

rondjon

And UK chain stores charge what Irish people will pay, and if they get away with that, then fair play to them.

If Irish consumers were unhappy with the prices charged by these UK chain stores, they're totally free to go elsewhere and not give these stores they money.

BUT NO!!! Irish people pay these prices willingly.

It's our own fault.


By the way, "unneccessary motorways"????

rom1

parsi wrote:

Oh yeah - why don't we extend the Luas to it so people can bring home their wardrobes and beds ...

I visited Ikea shops many times in a few countries, never by car. I got the stuff delivered to my place or rented one of their vans. Anyway, how would you fit a 3-seater sofa in your car? So what's the point of going there by car then?

ambro25

Jip wrote:

I think everyone who think that if and when Ikea start trading in Ireland you're going to get very cheap goods like those sold in other countrys are going to be bitterly disappointed.

Second that. Leeds (UK) IKEA prices are nearly double that of the Metz (France) IKEA for the exact same items.

The price difference was explained to me by the Leeds store manager as justified by cost of logistics only (Metz is an IKEA European Distribution Hub + retail outlet, e.g. they centralize deliveries there then ship out - Leeds is just retail outlet). IKEA chooses to not integrate pan-european shipping costs to their retail outlets to average prices throughout Europe, which help them take advantage of 'local propensity to pay' (UK/Ireland) (i.e. subsidize their operations in high price-unfriendly countries, such as France).

As Ireland is yet further than UK, I'd expect a ballpark 30% hike on UK prices, but time will tell. At least, now that I live over here, I'll be able to compare both catalogues in €

parsi

We went to Ikea in Nantes earlier in the year and before I went I compared prices for the items I was interested in - some things (eg Kitchen Doors) were a good bit dearer in France, other things (taps) were significantly cheaper and things like bulbs and minor fittings were the same .

Edit: I was comparing the IKEA UK paper catalogue with the online ikea.fr catalogue (both 2004/current editions)

ambro25

Nantes is about 550 miles from Metz (trace a line due East on map, slightly East-by North East and you're there) - might explain it. I'm looking at 'Artist Shelves', for instance (t'was about 6 months ago): Metz, France €35 - Leeds, UK £49.99 :eek:

EKRIUQ

Ikea's getting a lot of oppisition from Furniture stores in the navan and Dundalk area's of Ireland, theve all sent letters to their local TD's.

exactiv

Was there any talk of a possible store in the new Mahon Point development in Cork?

It would qualify for the urban regeneration zone thing.

Swarfboy

Lived in London (Ealing) for years and used Ikea in Wembley which had no direct tube or train link..(neither did we have a car).. but was still great...
Best bit that got my respect was when we went to buy a sofa, bed etc for the new house.. On that particular weekend they had posted record profits for the year throughout europe and so all weekend all profits went to the staff... Boy you should have seen how those people worked that weekend... they were even in the car park trying to sell towels at knockdown prices...
Now to me that is one of the best things I have ever seen from a multi national... I have worked for years for multi nationals and have never even received a penny more than my pay...
Another thing that is the size of retail units... I was involved in BLue Water which signalled the death of large malls in London forever (typically Ireland rushed in similar legislation).. It was the malls like this one that killed the small shops in towns, not necessarily stores like Ikea.....
If we are prepared to allow Intel, Microsoft, BMS, Wyeth, and all the other plethora of American companies come here to produce and sell why do we stop this European retailer.... Seems daft to me..!