Life. Is it worth living?

tribble

I just wanted to get peoples opinions on what keeps them going.
Not necessarily what keeps them from the bridge but rather what causes you not to even consider it.

From what I can see (and I may need glasses) the majority of people spend the majority of their waking time either bored in work or depressed in their free time save for a few brief moments of joy.
These moments of joy are for the most part derived from sex, drugs or some other temporary short lived (<4 hours) chemical imbalance in the brain.
Even love fades rather quickly when it is not liberally combined with endless of hours of drudgery with which to compare it.

Having said this I obviosly incorrect in my hypothesis (,I hope, ) or we would have far more that the few hundred every year who decide to end it all.

Argument such as "I couldn't do it, my family would be so upset" are redundant as this is a purely social customs and as such are subject to change (the wests attitude vs. the Japanese attitude for example).

So what am I overlooking?

tribble

PS : no this is not a PI.

Fysh

Not exactly a philosophical question, is it?

Whether your life is worth living depends on what criteria you choose to judge it by. If you want to make this thread worthwhile, I'd suggest posting up a few different types of criteria and then questioning their pros and cons. A good example would be the difference between eastern and western attitudes to suicide, what this entails for the individual and what it suggests about the culture itself.

Brian33

Why continue to live? Well, why not?

Life isn't drudgery to everyone, if you find it that way, maybe it's time for a change in perspective. If, to you, the majority of people look bored or depressed, that says much, much more about you than it does about them.
Life, just as it is at any moment, is all that it can be and is therefore perfect. It's a persons appreciation of this statement that decides how happy their life is.

In the words of a good friend of mine:
I'm Living to Love,
Loving to Learn,
And Learning to Live.

~Brian

DadaKopf

You might enjoy reading Albert Camus. The Myth of Sysiphus examines why life is worth living. Why, if the universe is meaningless do we not just kill ourselves? This theme is eloquently covered in his beautiful novel The Outsider.

A famous quote by Beckett goes something like: "I can't go on! I'll go on."

This should explain everything.

I was really into him as a moany teen and, having just reacquainted myself with his ideas, after four years of philosophy, he really had something going.

tribble

Fysh wrote:

Not exactly a philosophical question, is it?

To use DadaKopf's Albert Camus reference "There is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide."
But I agree with you on the non specific nature of my post, bit too fluffy, I knew that when posting.

Cheers DadaKopf for the references. This has been annoying me for a few years and I now have the time to look at it properly.

Brian33 wrote:

In the words of a good friend of mine:
I'm Living to Love,
Loving to Learn,
And Learning to Live.

Weird, I've been try that from the opposite way around.

mike65

Hope.

Mike.

Flamingfud

Ah, the old Pandora's Box answer. But I'd have to disagree. Do I not kill myself because I hope that one day I'll be happy, that I won't have to work, or worry, or stress or toil like I have to now? Frankly, no. I think that they're always be problems in life and that that's part and parcel of what the universe is. Hell, we make problems for ourselves.

I'd agree with what Brian 33 said. It's all about perspective, about relating to reality in a certain way. You say that "moments of joy are for the most part derived from sex, drugs or some other temporary short lived (<4 hours) chemical imbalance in the brain.". I happen to that that I'm a rather longer-lived chemical imbalance in my brain. The question is not 'Why is Life So Hard/Boring?Depressing?", but rather, "Why Do I Think Life Is So Hard/Boring/Depressing?"

By the way, thanks for the book references, I've Amazoned the 'Myth' which I'd read before but forgotten the name of. Thanks!

DadaKopf

I think the key is to live for something bigger than yourself. The problem is caring too much about achieving it.

In a sense, tragedy is the most wonderful aspect of human life.

Georgiana

Possible reasons most people keep living

(1) The status quo is "I'm alive now" and its a big challenge most people could not or would not undertake to do anything about the status quo

(2) The issue never occurs to them

(3) They realise that life is an interesting journey and accept that there is a lot of crap along the journey as well as really good stuff- this could be called maturity.

elivsvonchiaing

"Veronika decides to die" by Paulo Coehlo... This book made me think! It really does reach into the question imho

Crucifix

DadaKopf wrote:

A famous quote by Beckett goes something like: "I can't go on! I'll go on."

From waiting for godot right? To the poster, you should see that play if you get a chance.
As for the topic at hand, sometimes I do feel the only thing keeping me going is a vague desire to fight adversity.

tribble

elivsvonchiaing wrote:

"Veronika decides to die" by Paulo Coehlo... This book made me think! It really does reach into the question imho

Freaky, there's actually a copy of that downstairs sitting on my kitchen table.
Don't know who owns it but it's been sitting there all week.

tribble

Crucifix wrote:

From waiting for godot right? To the poster, you should see that play if you get a chance.

Hmmm, is the book a equally good bet or should I try see the play?

blobert

If the alternative to life is nothingness (unless you believe in heaven) then I'd say being alive is always going to be more interesting than being dead.

I used to be a lot gloomier. But my general attitude to things has improved greatly in the last few years. Thus while circumstances haven't changed very much my outlook on life is much improved. The same life, I might have said was crap a few years ago, I really enjoy now. It's all a matter of how you look at things.

On a philosophy related note, don't read any Schopenhauer. His views on life will depress the hell out of you. A lot of philosophy is quite depressing come to think of it.

Try reading something more cheerful..

Seraphina

sometimes i wonder. when i look at everyone wasting 40 hours of their life a week. just to live. it seems so pointless. especially when studying archaeology and hunter gatherers who spend on average 12-15 hours a week foraging for food.
modern society seems intent on creating so many complications that life is no longer life. it is an endless cyclical struggle just to live.
it boggles the mind.
people spend four years in college studying something they dont like so they can spend the rest of their life working in a job they dont like.
i have lived for 20 years, yet lived and experienced so little.
why? because im apparently working towards something greater. a job. a job which will take more and more of my life away. just so i can continue living.
it seems such a waste. but then im kinda depressed right now, so my view of the world is obviously a little skewed.
i live, because while it seems pointless. well so is death. if i continue living, things may get better. i may be able to make changes. if i die. well i dont know what happens, but i certainly wont be able to see if things ever get better.

ferdi

seraphina, that is un ****ing believable, you completely just read my my mind.

in order to live you have to forgo life itself and wait out your drone like existance until your body finally gives out and you are returned to the dirt from which you came.

Trebor

well to me life is about pleasure. i can get pleasure from anything i want, it need not be the big things like love, sex, drugs, religion. as long as i can get pleasure from the little day to day things like a good movie, nice food, good company and interesting topocs to read about then i will always be happy. if something depresses me i just try not to think about it or go find somthing to distract myself but very little actually does depress me.

shiv

Veronika decides to die made me re-think things as well. Very profound.

For me, it's pure and simple, unadulterated curiousity.
What would I miss out on if I wasn't around tomorrow?
What would happen next in each area of my life?

It's like missing out on the news of your own life.
Maybe a bit of hope as well thrown in.

And I agree, you have to believe you're hanging around for something bigger than yourself.

What if it all means something???

shiv

tribble wrote:

Freaky, there's actually a copy of that downstairs sitting on my kitchen table.
Don't know who owns it but it's been sitting there all week.

Maybe it's not a "coincidence"...

Phil_321

If there was a painless way to end it, I'd consider checking out. I'm not depressed or anything, just don't really find life that interesting anymore.
Like some posters have said, you just trudge through it, waiting for the next bit of excitement, but as life goes on you find less and less to get excited about.

Seraphina

ferdi wrote:

seraphina, that is un ****ing believable, you completely just read my my mind.

cooooool... i wonder what else is in there...


*concentrates really hard and attempts to penetrate ferdi's BRAAAAAAAIIIN*

hrm... this doesn't appear to be working now... maybe if i got a poking device...

*wanders off in seach of poking device*

anyway, back on topic... i suppose curiousity is as good a reason as any. i dont believe im waiting around for something bigger than myself. as phil pointed out though, when you've pretty much seen it all, and get less and less excited about things, and cynicism finally drags you down (i can see this happening to me disturbingly early in life) well, whats the point then eh?

elivsvonchiaing

Seraphina wrote:

cooooool... i wonder what else is in there...


*concentrates really hard and attempts to penetrate ferdi's BRAAAAAAAIIIN*

hrm... this doesn't appear to be working now... maybe if i got a poking device...

*wanders off in seach of poking device*

Jebus! I was beginning to fancy this woman! Ah well I never wanted to be a dirty-old man anyhow

elivsvonchiaing

...Then again, come to think of it... I've no idea that you're NOT dead-set against dirty old men...

Fysh

Phil_321 wrote:

If there was a painless way to end it, I'd consider checking out. I'm not depressed or anything, just don't really find life that interesting anymore.
Like some posters have said, you just trudge through it, waiting for the next bit of excitement, but as life goes on you find less and less to get excited about.

I can't say I'd want to end my life now, or conceivably at any point - there'll always be things to experience and while it will obviously get harder to find new or different things to experience, I consider it a challenge.

Thordon

If the alternative to life is nothingness (unless you believe in heaven) then I'd say being alive is always going to be more interesting than being dead.

This is pretty much my feeling on it.

I dont think there is any major goal in life. Society romanticizes a lot of thing to make it seem that way (marriage, procreation etc), but its the simple pleasures that are worth doing. I try to never catch myself being bored and doing nothing about it. Theres always something fun/interesting I could be doing.

neuro-praxis

If you are not happy with the course of your life, then I would encourage you to change it, even if it means going against the grain. I don't mean throw sense out of the window, and I don't mean quit things if they are hard, but I do mean, analyse, examine, move.

I have made a lot of decisions in my life that my family or peers or whoever just don't understand, but they have been part of being honest with myself and more importantly TRUE to myself, and fulfilling what I think God wants for my life. Having faith, I believe that if you search after God, you will be given the desires of your heart...whatever they might turn out to be.

My point here is not "find God" (although searching after Him is a good idea in my opinion ), it's to do what is necessary to make your life into something really worthwhile.

Something that helped me sort out my direction in life this year was making a list of my values (i.e., things that are important to me). This really helped because I knew what I needed to be happy and peaceful and I went after it.

Make a list of:

1) Things I Need Every Day

(for me these were things like - spending at least some time with friends, at least some time working [whatever form that might take], hearing some music I like, laughing, at least some time alone - undisturbed, at least some time praying, at least some time with my husband, a good home environment, as much honesty and authenticity as possible, etc. etc.)


2) Things I Can't Live Without (the bigger picture)

(for me these were things like - deep, quality relationships [not just surface] with family and friends, grace, forgiveness, truth, using my brain and being challenged as an intellectual and as an individual, etc. etc.)


3) Things That Are Useful (either that you currently enjoy or aspire to)

(here I put down - good grades, livable income, car, etc. etc.)

---

Maybe if you feel your life is pointless you should find out what is important to you. Write it down, and pursue it. This has helped me a lot.

Good luck to all of you.

tribble

Trebor wrote:

well to me life is about pleasure. i can get pleasure from anything i want, it need not be the big things like love, sex, drugs, religion. as long as i can get pleasure from the little day to day things like a good movie, nice food, good company and interesting topocs to read about then i will always be happy. if something depresses me i just try not to think about it or go find somthing to distract myself but very little actually does depress me.

Agreed - I have mostly decided on a hedonistic lifestyle.
However, there are considerations such as...
1/ money (which requires some sort of work - be it regraded as moral, immoral, amoral by soceity)
2/ opportunity choice - if i do x i can't do y.
3/ conscience - which i am not completly devoid of yet.
4/ laws of physics - i can actually do very few of the things that i would like to do, such as intersteallar travel, swimming to China in 5 minutes etc.

tribble

shiv wrote:

Maybe it's not a "coincidence"...

True, I live at home and have recently stopped pretending to be happy (not necessarily unhappy, but neutral) when I am not - which is most of the time.

tribble

Fysh wrote:

I can't say I'd want to end my life now, or conceivably at any point - there'll always be things to experience and while it will obviously get harder to find new or different things to experience, I consider it a challenge.

There are lots (near infinite) of things to experience, but the most require going throught the motions until you can afford to do them. I've been drunk and alone at three in the morning wandering the streets of Beijing , fantasticly surreal experience - but the amount of time I spent in work to pay for the trip was considerable.

shiv

tribble wrote:

True, I live at home and have recently stopped pretending to be happy (not necessarily unhappy, but neutral) when I am not - which is most of the time.

Hey tribble, maybe you should read the book then, it's all about not faking being happy yet discovering that given the choice, it's amazing the happiness that is out there if you think your time on earth is limited..

It's good to let the facade drop though, it sure is exhausting..

paulinimus

tribble wrote:

I just wanted to get peoples opinions on what keeps them going.
Not necessarily what keeps them from the bridge but rather what causes you not to even consider it....

.

I have not studied philosophy in the accademic sence - instead I cose the sciences. I believe there is a philosopher in the heart of all of us, only it is suppressed, and no matter how wise a person considers themselves to be, they still do not know that they know...

Everyone has there own formula or paradigm for living and of course it will always be largely determined by the start given to you by chance.

It is worth bearing in mind that it is society and not the universe that dictates much of what you get or not get out of life.

Taking this on board, your opinion on whether life is worth living should of cource have nothing to do with tour relationship with society and everything
to do with the universe. I don#t believe there is any justification for a link between the ills of society and the nature of our chaotic universe. We are all <i>in medias res</i> so to speak. I do believe you get out what you put in, but of course you need to know what ingredients to put in and appreciate the
fruits of your labours. As a relatively young single man, I try to live life as if I dont have much time. This doesn't mean I am under pressure to do allot with life. On the contrary I take it very slow. For me it is all about what I dont do not what I do. I try not to waist time on things that dont have rewards.
I think you have to be strong inside to get the most out of life. You need to develop allot but show only a little. For me, a person should be an intrigueing
puzzle. That way if there are sparks between you and the right person, they can spend the rest of their lives trying to solve you and vice versa.
But, as I say, it is all about the universe for me, not society when it comes to philosophy, but what do I know...

: )