Burn in Hell Al Queda (Margaret Hassan murdered)

Moriarty

sovtek wrote:

Because Robert's tin hat readers might remember how the CIA would never do such a thing.
They might also remember Robert's reporting of the accusations coming from Sadr's paper that the CIA were behind suicide bombings in Iraq. Then the CPA did the smart thing and shut down the paper and tried to arrest Sadr as well as attacking Najaf...you know instead of using the US run Al Hurra to show evidence that would descredit such baseless assertions.

Wait a second. You actually believe she was assassinated by the CIA?


aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

.. /looks again

hahahahaha.. stop, you're killing me..

Why would the CIA let you think such a thing when they control all our minds with the secret mindrays anyway?

sovtek

Rock Climber wrote:

This has been discussed before and no one could point to me where a court had declared coalition actions illegal.
That illegality was never declared by the body responsible for policing whether it was illegal or not ie the UNSC.

Of course government bodies never use their control of said government bodies to make sure that their crimes are never prosecuted.
I would actually be surprised to find out that the Bush regime wouldn't tell the acting US Ambassador to the UN to veto any resolution which stated that the US was actually committing illegal acts against the UN Charter.

Untill it does, theres two opinions, one that it was illegal and the other that it wasn't.
Both are just opinions.

That's fine...but then I'm going to require that everyone who asserts Saddam's crimes (or any other leader of a "rogue" nation) to show me the court proceding that proves said assertion.

Where was that declared illegal??

It wasn't. IIRC there was a UN resolution authorizing it. Not that I agree that it was the right thing to do.

sovtek

Moriarty wrote:

Wait a second. You actually believe she was assassinated by the CIA?


aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

.. /looks again

hahahahaha.. stop, you're killing me..

Why would the CIA let you think such a thing when they control all our minds with the secret mindrays anyway?

No I didn't say that I believed it is what happened but I'm not going to act so childishly towards someone for stating it's possibility especially considering that similar things have been carried out by the CIA in the past.
But I guess the FOI documents proving it were created by godless Communists trying to take over the world....or maybe aliens.

Moriarty

Show me an example of something similar to assassinating an aid worker who was the citizen of a close ally, please.

sovtek

Moriarty wrote:

Show me an example of something similar to assassinating an aid worker who was the citizen of a close ally, please.

If you didn't catch it the first time...it's killing someone and then blaming it on another group in an effort to get condemnation of that group and therefore justifying brutality against anyone that could be associated with that group....like that town where all people are terrorists....ie Falluja.
You know that's never happened before and anyone to suggest it must be wearing a tin foil hat and believe in fairies.

Moriarty

So no examples then? Nothing to actually base that conspiracy theory on?

Grand so, at least we got that settled.

Memnoch

Moriarty wrote:

So no examples then? Nothing to actually base that conspiracy theory on?

Grand so, at least we got that settled.

show me something that proves she was killed by iraqi's who were defiantely not acting on behalf of the Bush administration?

nothing to base that on either is it?

but its a lot more logical to assume that the coalition of the killing are responsible as they have gained the most from it, and have in the past repeatedly demonstrated callous disregard for any kind of international law, for human rights law, and civillian life.

mr_angry

A lot more logical? Hardly.

Hyperbole.

Captain Trips

DublinWriter wrote:

Which is exactly the response her murderers were trying to generate worldwide.

Except is wasn't Al Queda.

It wasn't even Mohamad al-Zaquari's group (Ken Bigley's killers).

Even on Mohamad al-Zaquari's own website, he called for her release. This is a *very significant* fact.

Robert Fisk made the above comments on the PK radio show yesterday and alluded to the fact that her murder was a 'black-op' carried out by agents of the current US-installed Iraqi government in order to generate worldwide hatred for Al Queda.

It seems to have worked, anyways.

It seems that my sarcasm was not picked up; I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiment - it reeks of psyops as does the recent clip of the US soldier killing the guy saying "he's dead now" that aired last weekend.

Reminds me of an Onion article with the content being along the lines of: The US economy is struggling and in order to gain jobs and money for honest Americans we have to go to war with Iraq. The earthquakes devastated Florida which means that without any delay we must go to war with Iraq...and so on.

Captain Trips

Moriarty wrote:

Wait a second. You actually believe she was assassinated by the CIA?


aaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

.. /looks again

hahahahaha.. stop, you're killing me..

Why would the CIA let you think such a thing when they control all our minds with the secret mindrays anyway?

No, your mind and ideas are influenced by television and by what you regard as being comfort zones in your own life, contrasted with images and sounds to make you feel uncomfortable.

Search for psyops under site:.mil in Google and educate yourself.

MeatProduct

It's not hard to concieve that the US could have manufactured her killing.They did invade the country after all, why would that be any less difficult than setting up any number of "terrorist" hostage situations in order to gain support for their invasion?

Some people don't have very good imaginations or live in incredibly small boxes. Of course I could be living in a small box labelled "delusional"

Nick

SkepticOne

sovtek wrote:

No I didn't say that I believed it is what happened but I'm not going to act so childishly towards someone for stating it's possibility especially considering that similar things have been carried out by the CIA in the past.

Maybe thats just what they want you to think. Both Rober Fisk and the CIA are mere tools of the Opus Dei. Robert Fisk is paid to write speculative rubbish which some people believe and blame on the CIA while others dismiss as groundless conspiracy theories. Both groups of people completely fail to see the real agenda.

If you remember after the Nick Berg unpleasantness, people on this forum were convinced that it could not possibly be the Iraqi Baathists or foreign islamists. It has to be the CIA or some US group. Look at the orange boiler suit, people said. This proves it is must be the Americans since this is what they are forced to wear in Guantanamo Bay. People stopped using this when other hostages started appearing with the same suits including Bigley.

I think some people can't handle the idea that evil may be possible for groups other than the US. If the US are evil, the reasoning goes, then anyone pretending to fight them must be good. How could brave freedom fighters possibly participate in such barbarity?

The resulting conflict when presented with evidence to the contrary forces them to rationalise using the flimsiest of evidence, in this case a suggestion by Robert Fisk.

mr_angry

I'm not entirely dismissing the possibility, but the fact that Al Zaquari called for her release does not necessarily make it more likely that it was a covert US operation.

MeatProduct

mr_angry wrote:

I'm not entirely dismissing the possibility, but the fact that Al Zaquari called for her release does not necessarily make it more likely that it was a covert US operation.

Of course, agreed. It could mean further subterfuge on both sides, it could mean nothing. It just smells very much like 1984, inventing an enemy and all that lovely stuff in order to play around with the public's beliefs.

Personally I'd have to say that there certainly seems to be an agenda that is well hidden from the public. I have no proof and I require none but I always remain open to other possibilities.

Nick

sovtek

Moriarty wrote:

So no examples then? Nothing to actually base that conspiracy theory on?

Grand so, at least we got that settled.

I guess you didnt' read that FOI document that I provided a link to that was authored by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

sovtek

SkepticOne wrote:

Maybe thats just what they want you to think. Both Rober Fisk and the CIA are mere tools of the Opus Dei. Robert Fisk is paid to write speculative rubbish which some people believe and blame on the CIA while others dismiss as groundless conspiracy theories.

I also remember some other speculative rubbish reported by Fisk whereby some documents were found in an abandoned building post Saddam exit that "proved" they were hiding WMD....of course the documents turned out to be supplied by the very newspaper that reported them found....something that Fisk reported well early on.

I think some people can't handle the idea that evil may be possible for groups other than the US. If the US are evil, the reasoning goes, then anyone pretending to fight them must be good. How could brave freedom fighters possibly participate in such barbarity?

That may very well be the motivation for some people....other people might not dismiss Fisk so easily because he's reported on alot of US/UK lies that took place before (and after) the war started in Iraq. This when even the BBC wasn't getting right.
So therefore I think someone that dismisses Fisk out of hand with childish rubbish, or "flimsy" evidence like previously seen here might very well have to eat it in the end, especially when Fisk's assertions have historical precendent.

Moriarty

sovtek wrote:

I guess you didnt' read that FOI document that I provided a link to that was authored by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

I read it years ago. It's completely irrelevant, unless you can show me the paragraph where they talk about publicly assassinating an aid agency chief of, say, Canada.

Seriously sovtek, give it a break.


(I'm purposely not replying to meatproduct and captain trips' posts due to their outlandish nature. I've learnt not to argue with conspiracy nuts for my own sanity, but to just point and laugh from a safe distance.)

ionapaul

Moriarty wrote:

Why would the CIA let you think such a thing when they control all our minds with the secret mindrays anyway?

Moriarty, I don't think you understand...if you're wearing the tin-foil hat, the CIA secret mindrays can't hit your brain!!!!!!!!!!! I got mine on right now

Moriarty

aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh..... so cardboard doesn't cut it?

mycroft

Moriarty wrote:

Show me an example of something similar to assassinating an aid worker who was the citizen of a close ally, please.

Em here ya go

edited

oh and more here

AN SALVADOR, El Salvador -- After 17 years of silence, all four of the former national guardsmen convicted of killing three American nuns and a lay worker here in 1980 have said for the first time that they acted only after receiving "orders from above." The churchwomen -- Maura Clarke, Jean Donovan, Ita Ford and Dorothy Kazel -- were abducted, raped and shot to death on the night of Dec. 2, 1980. The next day, peasants discovered their bodies alongside an isolated road and buried their remains in a common grave. The van they had been driving when stopped at a military checkpoint turned up 20 miles away, burned and gutted.

Sand

Em here ya go

El Salvadorean soldiers shoot American nuns. Years on soldiers claim they were ordered by senior commanders to do it. US State Dept says an investigation must be launched.

Well thats open and shut that is.

Moriarty

mycroft wrote:

Em here ya go

That story doesn't even link what the soldiers did to the US? What happened to the investigation in the intervening 6 years?

mycroft

Moriarty wrote:

That story doesn't even link what the soldiers did to the US? What happened to the investigation in the intervening 6 years?

For starts to be pedantic you asked for evidence of
"Show me an example of something similar to assassinating an aid worker who was the citizen of a close ally, please."

The murder of three US nuns aid workers, by a soldiers working for a US supported regime. You didn't ask for specifics you asked for a general example.

Sands if you'd bothered to read on you'd have read this

But Robert White, who was the U.S. ambassador to El Salvador at the time of the killings, said in a telephone interview last week that "when the act was done, I knew immediately it was the military" and that a cover-up was under way. His suspicions centered, he said, on Col. Oscar Edgardo Casanova Vejar, the local military commander in Zacatecoluca, near the airport, and his cousin, Colonel Vides Casanova, who later in the war was promoted to general and minister of defense and worked closely with U.S. military and intelligence forces.

and

In 1983, Judge Harold Tyler, after conducting an investigation for the State Department, concluded that "Colindres Aleman acted at his own initiative" and that "the evidence of lack of higher involvement is persuasive." But that finding was based largely on a piece of secret "special evidence" that was made available to him by the U.S. Embassy in San Salvador and that remains classified to this day.

Moriarty

mycroft wrote:

For starts to be pedantic you asked for evidence of
"Show me an example of something similar to assassinating an aid worker who was the citizen of a close ally, please."

The murder of three US nuns aid workers, by a soldiers working for a US supported regime. You didn't ask for specifics you asked for a general example.

.. and all you provided is unsubstantiated rumour, basically. That's not what I was looking for.

mycroft

Moriarty wrote:

.. and all you provided is unsubstantiated rumour, basically. That's not what I was looking for.

Sorry I can't provide a photo of nixon bluggening peace corp workers like baby seals, but the link points to strong evidence that senior El Salvador Colnels trained in the school of the america's ordered the murder of US nuns , and that the US govt has helped cover this up.

I don't know if the US govt ordered the murder of Hassan or if if she was murdered by terrorists, but I do know, if she was murdered by the US you'll never conclusively prove it.

SkepticOne

The most likely explanation is that she was captured by one of several criminal gangs that operate in situations of lack of law and order in many parts of the world. These groups often sell politically valuable hostages to the likes of Al Zarqawi and others (mainly Iraqis) they hold for ransom. It could also be the case that a fanatic group captured her only to find that she was liked by the Iraqi's even though she is a dirty infidel and thus they decided not to identify themselves. It is a very common occurenc and the kidnappers don't discriminate.

The idea that it has been orchastrated by the US is a possibility but that it is the most likely explanation seems a bit nutty tbh. Are the US also kidnapping all the Iraqis too? Did they kill Bigley, the Japanese, Italians, the Nepalese?

Some people believe that the US not only knew about the exact day in which the WTO bombing would occur but that the US actually planned the event to create the pretext for the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Moriarty

mycroft wrote:

Sorry I can't provide a photo of nixon bluggening peace corp workers like baby seals, but the link points to strong evidence that senior El Salvador Colnels trained in the school of the america's ordered the murder of US nuns , and that the US govt has helped cover this up.

What the hell? Where's the followup news articles about the trial then? Are allegations really enough for you? Is it ok if I say there are WMD in Iraq because those were allegations which were made too?

mycroft wrote:

I don't know if the US govt ordered the murder of Hassan or if if she was murdered by terrorists, but I do know, if she was murdered by the US you'll never conclusively prove it.

What, never prove it just like the cuban CIA ops? Yeah, I see exactly what you mean. (!?)

MeatProduct

SkepticOne wrote:

Some people believe that the US not only knew about the exact day in which the WTO bombing would occur but that the US actually planned the event to create the pretext for the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Unhappily enough that doesn't sound so strange to me.

Nick

Captain Trips

SkepticOne wrote:

Some people believe that the US not only knew about the exact day in which the WTO bombing would occur but that the US actually planned the event to create the pretext for the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.

The likening is most akin to the bombing of the Reichstag.

Who benefitted from 9/11? Al Queda (which doesn't even exist as an entity other than one coined to focus minds on a single enemy)? the neocons? My money is on the neocons - e.g., oil prices have gone way up, Condi has made a fortune. The military corps like Lockheed, GD, Northrop - check msn.com and look at the stock prices since 9/11. Increased police powers? Does that benefit Al Queda? Does it benefit the citizens? Or do increased police powers benefit the...eh....police!

1 plus 1 also, as it turns out, makes 2.