Doctor`s Fees

uberwolf

you should know to use the sarcasm tags then!!!

RuggieBear

I don't think Doctors get paid enough....altho i admit that 40e is a large sum.

My father is a GP ( i know i'm biased;) )and spent the bones of 8years getting qualified with ****all income and when he first started he worked 8am to 8pm mon to fri and sat morning as well... He was on call every night and often got about 2hours sleep. We didn't take a holiday for 5 years and then it was only to Rosses Point.

Over the years he has helped thousands, from people with colds, the depressed, AIDS sufferers, drug addicts, people who want to change their gender, and saved hundreds of lifes, by diagnosing heart attacks and cancer. He hasn't had anyone die in his surgery yet but he has been on housecalls where he had people die in his arms....I've been with him when he has stopped by traffic accidents and helped the seriously injured and gone with them to the hospital, leaving me to get a ride home with the GARDA.


He has been puked on countless times, had junkies threatening him and the Surgery has been robbed loads of times...

It's a horrible job and one of those that people don't really appreciate till the Doctor saves your life...then your 40e really is money well spent

Nuttzz

I'm not a cop, nor do I live with my parents, it was just a line I heard in a show..... I pay for my own pension.

Samo: I get your point, thats fair enough, i dont have kids so dont fully grasp the whole thing

samo

It does put a different perspective on it when your responsible for somebody elses health and not your own and fair play to you having pension etc sorted because like i said in this country you really do have to look after yourself and theres an awful lot of people going to get a big shock come retirement day!

Also ruggie bear, not to take away from the responsibliity a doctors has and I agree they put the work in to get themselves to that level of profession which is an inavluable one.

I wouldnt expect the government to subsidise a plumber for me if the boiler breaks down so I can see the other side of the coin!

vector

jonny68 wrote:

...I might need to go back in a few weeks but the thoughts of shelling out another €40 for 5 minutes and an unfriendly Doctor doesnt appeal.

Well, on the second visit you could say, "Sure, I'll give you 40 for todays visit, but only if you refund me the 40 from my first visit because it didn't work"

Has anyone ever tried that?

Captain Trips

vector wrote:

Well, on the second visit you could say, "Sure, I'll give you 40 for todays visit, but only if you refund me the 40 from my first visit because it didn't work"

Has anyone ever tried that?

I was reading a book recently and in it was some history from around 1350 in the UK when a surgeon was introducing a new surgery for an anal fistula. He would charge £40 for the procedure and a £40 annuity for as long as the patient survived!

shoegirl

Nuttzz wrote:

Doctors spend 7 years in Med school for no pay, they then have to go through the ringer of being a lowly paid junior doctor.

Lowly paid? My ar**! An intern starts on €26,052. Thats massive money compared to starting money when you consider the person is probably about 25 or so.
Junior Doctors (or non consultants) get about 140k per year.
I don't think this includes overtime pay.

GPs in Ireland actually get about 25-30% more than their colleagues in the British NHS, even though average salaries in the UK are about 30% higher than in Ireland. Doctors are considerably better off Ireland, largely because we do not have free healthcare.

There is currently an ad on the IMO website for instant approval for GPs of loans of €15,000 a year. Think carefully about this. Thats a very welathy person that gets offered loans like that.

There is a real anomaly here in the fact that a person earning 120k a year pays the same as a young couple on maybe only 2 small incomes with children. The idea of different kinds of medical cards to suit different needs isn't all that bad. From friends who work with doctors I hear that apparently some medical card holders come in as much as twice a week really just for the chat. Thats not only a lot of doctors time wasted, its wasting taxpayers money. I suffer from asthma so I visit a doctor at least 2 to 4 times a year and then medication is 78 per month (it would be 95 without the DPS scheme). If just moved to a different job where I get a 5k pay rise but still pay the same. And I remember at one point in my life when that was a lot of money and it was difficult to afford.

Unemployed people certainly deserve assistance but there seems to be a free for all in this country whereby people who don't want to work or stay on the dole/welfare while working on the black economy are able to continue for years like that. I know several "unemployed" people who have incomes of over 400 a week from working and being paid under the counter. Now I don't begrudge Doctors making reasonable money but they do seem to be an exceptionally welathy bunch, compared to many people these days.

eth0_

shoegirl wrote:

Lowly paid? My ar**! An intern starts on €26,052. Thats massive money compared to starting money when you consider the person is probably about 25 or so.

For a start, if you're 25 and only earning 26 grand you're not exactly doing well for yourself.

I know two junior doctors and they're working 100 hour + weeks. Do you think 26k is fair pay for working over ONE HUNDRED HOURS a week? And virtually LIVING in a hospital? It's slave labour.

Also, consider the enormous debt med students have. After first year you really cannot afford to work part time because you have such a heavy workload, so you rely on student loans to survive.

If you go to uni in the UK you're working in a hospital from first year with no pay. So you'll be working for the NHS for free for five or six years.

PRHO's in the UK start on I think £23-25k. So they're on a bit more than junior doctors here. Which is pretty good going considering UK residents don't pay a penny for healthcare (apart from their taxes of course).

sixtysix

do a google on junior doctors earnings
in 2002 their average overtime earnings is quoted at €45,000
in 2003 their average earnings is put at €140,000
this for junior non consultant doctors

http://archives.tcm.ie/breakingnews/2002/08/07/story62967.asp

http://www.sbpost.ie/web/Home/Document%20View%20Business/did-79533948-pageUrl--2FBusiness-2FNews-Features-2FAdvice-Specials.asp

RuggieBear

while i'm not sure of those figures...jnr drs are getting better paid than they were due to the fact they now get paid for the overtime they do. When my pop was doing overtime he would get one third pay for all hours over the basic working week :eek: Think this only change over the last couple of years

Tazz T

eth0_ wrote:

For a start, if you're 25 and only earning 26 grand you're not exactly doing well for yourself.

I know two junior doctors and they're working 100 hour + weeks. Do you think 26k is fair pay for working over ONE HUNDRED HOURS a week? And virtually LIVING in a hospital? It's slave labour.

Also, consider the enormous debt med students have. After first year you really cannot afford to work part time because you have such a heavy workload, so you rely on student loans to survive..

In all fairness Etho, the average wage in Ireland is 24k, whatever age you are, so earning 26k when you're 25 isn't too bad. This whole thread is about ppl who don't make that much and have to pay for their medical expenses. You make a fair point that Junior Doctors work excessive hours (and I believe that's wrong) but that's because, in the future, they will benefit from massive wages. That's also why they're prepared to run up big debts while they're studying. The point is it's not fair on low income families to run up debts visiting the doctor that they'll never have the chance to pay off and that's what this thread is about.

eth0_

I know and I agree that it costs a bomb to get medical care in this country, and medical insurance is worthless unless you're at deaths door. Having lived in the UK for the majority of my life I can appreciate the benefits of the NHS.

I just took exception at the attacks on Doctors wages.

MrPudding

Is junior doctor working hours not a moot point? Did the new European Working Hours directive not sort this out?

For me no child should be denied the right to see a doctor. Towards the end of the month things can get tight, I would hate to think that a child isn’t taken to the doctor because the parents can’t afford it. Being €1 over the threshold for a medical card does not mean you can pay €40 to take your child to the doctor.

I appreciate that some people think that as they do not have children they should not have to pay for other peoples children to receive medical and education. Thankfully these people are in a minority. As members of a society we have a responsibility to look after those less fortunate than ourselves, even if they are only slight less well off than we are ourselves.

No one like to pay good money to people who are abusing the system. Personally I would rather the abusers got away with the abuse than the needy get denied in error. Obviously I would like to see people that do not deserve the money not getting it, my worry would be that people that do need it would also be denied.

MrP

Imposter

MrPudding wrote:

For me no child should be denied the right to see a doctor. Towards the end of the month things can get tight, I would hate to think that a child isn’t taken to the doctor because the parents can’t afford it. Being €1 over the threshold for a medical card does not mean you can pay €40 to take your child to the doctor.

I appreciate that some people think that as they do not have children they should not have to pay for other peoples children to receive medical and education. Thankfully these people are in a minority. As members of a society we have a responsibility to look after those less fortunate than ourselves, even if they are only slight less well off than we are ourselves.

Why is it more important that a child gets to see a doctor rather than an adult?

There's a couple of things in play here. Firstly the medical card system is very unfair and is being abused. There are people who are just over the threshold and they realistically should get some assistance with medical costs. This works for everyone, not just children.

Then there's the issue of parents having children and not being realistically being able to afford them (That might sound incompassionate or whatever but this is a discussion about money and not about emotions). If these people didn't have the kids then they wouldn't have to worry about being able to afford to bring their kids to the doctor.

MrPudding

Imposter wrote:

Why is it more important that a child gets to see a doctor rather than an adult?

It’s not really more important, it is simply that children normally do not have their own income and need to rely on someone else for pay their way.

Imposter wrote:

There's a couple of things in play here. Firstly the medical card system is very unfair and is being abused. There are people who are just over the threshold and they realistically should get some assistance with medical costs. This works for everyone, not just children.

I agree, as I said in my post. I know I only mentioned children but the issue is accross the board.

Imposter wrote:

Then there's the issue of parents having children and not being realistically being able to afford them (That might sound incompassionate or whatever but this is a discussion about money and not about emotions). If these people didn't have the kids then they wouldn't have to worry about being able to afford to bring their kids to the doctor.

I also agree with you here, to a certain extent, but there are a few things you need to remember. Firstly accidents do happen. A couple may end up with a child even if they are taking precautions. It happened to me. Perhaps we should allow abortion on economic grounds? After all I am sure some couples realise they cannot afford their little accident and would opt for an abortion if it was available. Secondly, and most important for me, the child did not ask to be born. It should not be denied medical treatment because it parents should not have had it in the first place.

MrP

samo

Imposter wrote:

Why is it more important that a child gets to see a doctor rather than an adult?

Then there's the issue of parents having children and not being realistically being able to afford them (That might sound incompassionate or whatever but this is a discussion about money and not about emotions). If these people didn't have the kids then they wouldn't have to worry about being able to afford to bring their kids to the doctor.

so maybe you think the government should do a means check or check bank balances before conception takes place?? :rolleyes:

Imposter

samo wrote:

so maybe you think the government should do a means check or check bank balances before conception takes place?? :rolleyes:

That's not a bad idea. :eek: :rolleyes: :eek:

MrPudding wrote:

I also agree with you here, to a certain extent, but there are a few things you need to remember. Firstly accidents do happen. A couple may end up with a child even if they are taking precautions. It happened to me. Perhaps we should allow abortion on economic grounds? After all I am sure some couples realise they cannot afford their little accident and would opt for an abortion if it was available. Secondly, and most important for me, the child did not ask to be born. It should not be denied medical treatment because it parents should not have had it in the first place.

Without getting into an abortion debate i'll say yes. I presume a lot of people already do have abortions for this reason.

I get what you are saying about the child's position and it's a tricky one. I personally would prefer if healthcare (doctors, hospital, prescriptions and dentists) was free or very cheap (say 5€ a visit) for basic and/or necessary services for everyone. That might mean more tax is required to fund such services (but not before they get to the bottom of where all the money is going at the moment and do something about that), but it would have the effect of eliminating the medical card as exists at present and may even cause some people who refuse to work because of the medical card, to go back into the workforce.

That way everyone is guaranteed basic healthcare for a minimum cost that everyone, no matter how poor, should be able to afford.

samo

maybe an intelligence test could be an idea too....???

Imposter

samo wrote:

maybe an intelligence test could be an idea too....???

Couldn't hurt I suppose.

samo

Out of curiosity how much do you think somebody should earn before they can conceive a child so they can prove their effectiveness at being able to support them without any government assistance?

And of course what happens if one of the parents dies or is made redundant or something else financially unsettling happens in their life??

Well we could just let the child suffer and not be treated becuase its of the course the parents fault they were not able to sustain the child financially....

Dont think I'd like life in your world much!!!!


Ok well I posted the above before I saw you had edited your post with something I'd agree with!!

Yeah,i agree there should be a minimum level of healthcare for veryone in this country no regardless of income. Its the way it is in England and its not often I find myself thinking things are better over there but I cannot see it happening here and if it was a comprimise between healthcare for veryone as you suggest and i agree with but cant see happening or healtcare for children - I would still go for the latter than nothing at all

Imposter

Get off your high horse there for a minute and read the bit I edited on to the end of my 2nd last post.

samo

Imposter wrote:

Get off your high horse there for a minute and read the bit I edited on to the end of my 2nd last post.

I just did and was in the process of editing my post - I think I'l have to agree to disagree with yourself and Nutz on this post but it is something i felel strongly about and that is my conviction on it and i accept the points you made in the edited post and agree with you

samo

and aslo I do think the medical card in its present state is ridiculous. I have a neighbour in her 60's who is minted and has a medical card and has a doctors appointment for something no matter what every couple of days, they can well afford the doctors fees and its wrong that the tax payer gets no assistance with medical fees in most cases.

the current situation is well out of hand and needs to be overhauled drastically and in an ideal world there should be the same level of healthcare regardless of status

Tazz T

Hear, hear!

Victor

samo wrote:

.... and its wrong that the tax payer gets no assistance with medical fees in most cases.

But you do get tax relief if you pay over X amount.

samo wrote:

And of course what happens if one of the parents dies or is made redundant or something else financially unsettling happens in their life??

It's obvious, kill half of the children.

samo

you are truly hilarious!

uberwolf

I heard mention yesterday of recent survey results which showed that we spend a much greater percentage on the make up and similar as compared to health care. I can't find the survey (mentioned on radio yesterday or weds). Confirmed for me teh impression that we begrudge spending on health and other things we need.

funkyniff

jesus listen to your selves!!!
i lived in the uk for alot of my life and paid the taxs.
when i came over here i was disgusted at having to pay for doctors bills but i did!! i think it is very steep and so are the dentists.
in the uk all birth control is free and in ireland it is not !
this makes no sense!!i actually go home for the weekend (with my partner) to wales see my gp get my pills and come back all on a cheap ryan air ticket!! wrong maybe but i get to see my family as well and still come of better than seeing a doctor and paying for my perscription!!
i get really annoyed at people digging at children too
if you handed them over to go in to care they wouldnt pay for the doc.
they arnt earning money so they deserve a medical card.
my friend has just found out she has cancer..she has private insurance (which helps ) and she has been granted a medical card without this she would have had to pay about 3grand in medication alone!she is also still trying to work and pays her taxes.
i dont know what point im really trying to make but you really cant mess with peoples health just over money!!
also some people have medical cards because they are unemployed some still have bills but some dont and some dont have morgages !
sorry i just get really stressed about this
sometimes when im sick my partner forces me to the doctor ..even drives me there and lends me the money (now the uk have probs eg i have to book 2 weeks in advance enless its a emergency..eg very sick!!)and you pay £6 per perscription wether its penacillin worth £2 or a major lie saving tablet that cost £200. but i prefered it !

jonny68

uberwolf wrote:

I heard mention yesterday of recent survey results which showed that we spend a much greater percentage on the make up and similar as compared to health care. I can't find the survey (mentioned on radio yesterday or weds). Confirmed for me teh impression that we begrudge spending on health and other things we need.

If this is true then its nothing short of a disgrace...

flyz

Only just come across the thread now.
Personally I think that children should be entitled to free Health the same way that they get free Education.

I have no problem with the salary that Doctors get, they provide a necessary and valuable service in our Society.

However, to pay €45 to go to a Doctor to get a prescription repeated is outrageous. They should stagger the fees somehow. Pass more duties onto the Nurse.
Last I saw anyway a nurse is perfectly capable of taking someones blood pressure.