Waterford North Quays

imacman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

We re getting there alright, but todays numbers are a little concerning, not everyone is an expert in our health system, including myself!

You can take the daily case figures with a pinch of salt at the moment

"With systems down due to the recent ransomware attack, the HPSC are reporting daily cases to the Department based on those daily positive lab results. Validation of these results will re-commence once systems are back up and running."

Wanderer78

imacman wrote: »

You can take the daily case figures with a pinch of salt at the moment

"With systems down due to the recent ransomware attack, the HPSC are reporting daily cases to the Department based on those daily positive lab results. Validation of these results will re-commence once systems are back up and running."

...and thats an extra level of concern, we may not know exactly whats going on, with both of these viruses, so id be a little cautious with reopening , that last thing we want now, is for a major surge

Jamie2k9

Some detail of the new plans:

https://waterford-news.ie/2021/05/19/back-to-the-drawing-board/

snotboogie

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Some detail of the new plans:

https://waterford-news.ie/2021/05/19/back-to-the-drawing-board/

Is it the council who will be submitting the planning permission? Will this be something similar to Limericks Opera Centre where the council end up being the developers via European loans?

hardybuck

I'd have a very mixed reaction to this.

We're in the middle of a housing crisis and the Council should be ring-fencing as much of this development for housing as possible. Any increase of residential units at the expense of retail units should be welcomed. We should be attracting people, and jobs, to Waterford on the basis that the average person can afford to live there.

However, If I owned a retail business in town, and I was paying rates to the Council, I'd be very unhappy about this. Visitors to the Kildare Village shopping outlet never set foot into Kildare Town - it's one of the bleakest towns you'll see (no offence to any Kildare residents reading this).

It looks as though they want day trippers to come in on the train or drive there, stay for the day or overnight in the hotel, shop in the new shopping centre, and then go home. Michael Street seems to been forgotten about completely.

I'd be much more comfortable if this development allowed for the population of the city to grow in a sustainable fashion, for badly needed hotel and conference space to be added, and for new office space to be created. While it could do some of those things, I just feel a Kildare Village type facility will kill the shops on the other side of the river.

Wanderer78

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Some detail of the new plans:

https://waterford-news.ie/2021/05/19/back-to-the-drawing-board/

this looks very promising, i clearly had serious reservations about the previous plans, but i think this sounds more hopeful, and overall better for the region, i just hope local business groups will be more involved, and encouraged to be more involved. we truly need something that improves everyone's future, we need all hands on deck now, covid has been horrendous for everyone. i wish everyone the best in regards these new plans, and thank everyone's efforts to date, including falcons

BBM77

snotboogie wrote: »

Is it the council who will be submitting the planning permission? Will this be something similar to Limericks Opera Centre where the council end up being the developers via European loans?

Think it is the way to go to be honest. I know it was just unlucky with the timing and COVID-19 but we have been waiting twenty plus years for private developers to redevelop the north quays. If you want different results then do something differently as they say.

south

I notice a cable car station in those plans beside the hotel.

Flow Motion

south wrote: »

I notice a cable car station in those plans beside the hotel.

Just wondering where the monorail is on those blueprints for the Mark 2 proposed planned development of the part brown/green SDZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "simulation".....?????

Anyone else gonna head for Shelbyville asap??:pac:

Lyle Lanley said it best:
Y'know, a town with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it!
Homer: Heh heh!

BBM77

Flow Motion wrote: »

Just wondering where the monorail is on those blueprints for the Mark 2 proposed planned development of the part brown/green SDZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "simulation".....?????

Anyone else gonna head for Shelbyville asap??:pac:

Lyle Lanley said it best:
Y'know, a town with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it!
Homer: Heh heh!

Have you ever left Waterford?

imacman

Looking back on the old NQ thread and I came across this story I have forgotten about
https://waterfordnow.ie/news/north-quays-developer-claims-hotel-is-sold-half-of-the-apartments-taken-and-a-tech-company-is-moving-into-the-offices/
Wow they told some lies

Half of the office space in the €400 million North Quays Development already has a tenant confirmed to move in when the project is completed. A source for the developers, Falcon Real Estate Development, told Waterfordnow.ie that the project has already attracted a tech company.
The source also confirmed the hotel associated with the development is close to sale, while 50% of the apartments included in the project already are accounted for.
“We have 50% of the offices gone, we have 50% of the apartments gone. The hotel is close to being sold. That’s half the project already sold.

killbillvol2

imacman wrote: »

Looking back on the old NQ thread and I came across this story I have forgotten about
https://waterfordnow.ie/news/north-quays-developer-claims-hotel-is-sold-half-of-the-apartments-taken-and-a-tech-company-is-moving-into-the-offices/
Wow they told some lies

Half of the office space in the €400 million North Quays Development already has a tenant confirmed to move in when the project is completed. A source for the developers, Falcon Real Estate Development, told Waterfordnow.ie that the project has already attracted a tech company.
The source also confirmed the hotel associated with the development is close to sale, while 50% of the apartments included in the project already are accounted for.
“We have 50% of the offices gone, we have 50% of the apartments gone. The hotel is close to being sold. That’s half the project already sold.

Did something happen since last March that would have affected interest in office space? Baffling really.

Harry Palmr

It's March 2020 for clarity. Plenty has changed since then.

The inside story of this has many pages which we haven't seen and probably never will but it would be a good case study in regional regeneration should someone be willing to undertake it.

Flow Motion

99

BBM77 wrote: »

Have you ever left Waterford?

Been all around the world. I love Waterford but once you cross that bridge and venture further afield you realise its a big place out there. Sure its a fab little place here at times but since I was a teenager I have seen so many false dawns and broken promises down thru the years that its hard to take any big plans seriously. The only positive stuff over the past 25 years has been the Greenway and the Viking Triangle IMO. We are still awaiting a University. I have a badge from a St Paddy Day parade in 1987 looking for University status. Yes that is how long that particular piece of political football has been dragging on! The last major shopping development in the City Ctr was City Sq - that being 1993. Sad to say but some of the surrounding towns have a better shopping experiences (Wexford/Kilkenny). If we we all honest we are too far behind in this sphere. With the N9 Dublin is only an hour and a half away. Cork is close too. Add in the online shopping experience and what chain really has the foresight & money to fund an outlet here in Waterford? Seriously? Take a look around the city ctr today; lots of empty units & a plethora of charity shops. Large empty units in City Sq - Debenhams gone and the new units @ Arundle Sq entrance still looking for tenants. Theres is no easy solution or magic wand. This is not just happening in Waterford but in towns/cities across the globe. The way of life has changed irrevocably since the early 90's. Thank capitalism and the multinationals.

Deiseen

So does anyone else think the new plans are just utter ****?

914

Deiseen wrote: »

So does anyone else think the new plans are just utter ****?

Are they not similar to the original plans? Wouldn't worry about it, if we get a developer they will most likely change to their own plan.

The new council plans my issue is the train station looks a bit away from the bridge. I would want that platform right at the bridge

Harry Palmr

The pictures are uselessly small and low resolution but it looks as if the train would stop at the bus park end but plenty will get out and be quite near the bridge.

Pete_Cavan

snotboogie wrote: »

Is it the council who will be submitting the planning permission? Will this be something similar to Limericks Opera Centre where the council end up being the developers via European loans?

The big thing Limericks Opera Development has going for it is that it has a state tenant (Revenue) to take a good chunk of the office space. The existing Revenue office building is reaching end of life and it is to be demolished and replaced with public space overlooking the river. Its that kind of integrated urban redevelopment/public space plan for which there is European money available.

I suspect it will be hard for the private sector to make it work given the vast site and the cost of developing it. I wouldn't be surprised if it requires a state tenant to anchor it to avoid it being a speculative development or even it comes down to the state, or arms thereof, to develop. Are there any large state offices in Waterford, or does the local Council have an adequate office?

Also, have they dropped the integrated bus station in the new plan?

Harry Palmr

The bus station is in the plan.

The Land Registry building is only about 25 years old I think so that's probably grand for years yet. I don't think a bunch of public servants is really the clientele developers would have in mind.

redlead

If the retail space is vastly reduced, what's the point really? The idea behind the larger retail space under Falcon was that it would be large enough to attract shoppers a from all over the South East. This won't and another city square is the last thing we need. Hard get excited about office space that will remain empty and residential apartments. Maybe this should be thought out more before rushing into something that will be a bit sh1te. Its all gone to pot really but we needed some big thinking.

914

redlead wrote: »

If the retail space is vastly reduced, what's the point really? The idea behind the larger retail space under Falcon was that it would be large enough to attract shoppers a from all over the South East. This won't and another city square is the last thing we need. Hard get excited about office space that will remain empty and residential apartments. Maybe this should be thought out more before rushing into something that will be a bit sh1te. Its all gone to pot really but we needed some big thinking.

Michael St is key to shopping development imo. North Quays as residential, business and finance sector.

This is the norm in a lot of EU cities, even Dublin all the Docklands is pretty much business and finance.

Distance from NQs to the applemarket is the same as Grafton St length in Dublin, therefore the cities shopping would be very close to this area but that is all depending the right development takes place in Michael St.

The 2007 development would definitely be worth a shot

Why not include a campus for WIT over there something with 2-3k student's, might be a better option than the crystal site

Santan

It is suck a pity that with such a blank canvas available that there is not enough bravery to go and make this one of the most attractive areas in Ireland for shopping, tourists and locals, something that would more than compete with cork or Dublin for shopping, a fantastic new and vibrant hotel accommodation zone, another night life area to compete with galway cork kilkenny by including john street with simple transport between the 2, get the old jury's in to it and something a bit crazy like the cable car idea, such a huge opportunity for the south east as a whole but I fear it will never be looked like that, too much infighting and not enough courage from local politicians

Deiseen

Santan wrote: »

It is suck a pity that with such a blank canvas available that there is not enough bravery to go and make this one of the most attractive areas in Ireland for shopping, tourists and locals, something that would more than compete with cork or Dublin for shopping, a fantastic new and vibrant hotel accommodation zone, another night life area to compete with galway cork kilkenny by including john street with simple transport between the 2, get the old jury's in to it and something a bit crazy like the cable car idea, such a huge opportunity for the south east as a whole but I fear it will never be looked like that, too much infighting and not enough courage from local politicians

The councils new plans are a complete sell out to the original North Quays vision.

Harry Palmr

How about some publicly funded anchor tenants, a few thousand of them (between students and staff)?

https://finneganwaterford.wordpress.com/2021/05/20/northquays-uni/

redlead

914 wrote: »

Michael St is key to shopping development imo. North Quays as residential, business and finance sector.

This is the norm in a lot of EU cities, even Dublin all the Docklands is pretty much business and finance.

Its entirely different in Waterford because the docks are in the heart of the city. In Dublin to get from the top of the quays to the centre of town is a surprisingly long walk (I worked there ). This was a big part of the reason the tall ships festivals were so much better in Waterford than elsewhere. We should not be wasting such a prime city centre location on cheap apartments. Have you seen the cost of housing in Waterford city at the moment? you could buy a lot of it with loose change. Apts there will not generate value when there is no attractive reason for people to live there.

We need to stop comparing Waterfod to Cork and Dublin because it is significantly smaller and is competing with other large towns in the region. For this to change, we need to be developing with servicing the region in mind I.e retail too big for Waterford alone but significantly better than anything else in the region. If we build a crappy retail area, then the residential zone will just turn into another marina and the office spaces will be half empty along with the retail in a few years (see city square). Do something properly or wait until someone else has the vision and ability to do it (unlike Falcon) properly.

Deiseen

redlead wrote: »

Its entirely different in Waterford because the docks are in the heart of the city. In Dublin to get from the top of the quays to the centre of town is a surprisingly long walk (I worked there ). This was a big part of the reason the tall ships festivals were so much better in Waterford than elsewhere. We should not be wasting such a prime city centre location on cheap apartments. Have you seen the cost of housing in Waterford city at the moment? you could buy a lot of it with loose change. Apts there will not generate value when there is no attractive reason for people to live there.

We need to stop comparing Waterfod to Cork and Dublin because it is significantly smaller and is competing with other large towns in the region. For this to change, we need to be developing with servicing the region in mind I.e retail too big for Waterford alone but significantly better than anything else in the region. If we build a crappy retail area, then the residential zone will just turn into another marina and the office spaces will be half empty along with the retail in a few years (see city square). Do something properly or wait until someone else has the vision and ability to do it (unlike Falcon) properly.

Totally agree, the plan that the council are going ahead with would squander the only decent chance that Waterford has to become a driving force within the region.

Can objections be lodged for this? If so, I will be objecting because they are setting the city up to fail for their half-arsed plan.

Santan

Deiseen wrote: »

Totally agree, the plan that the council are going ahead with would squander the only decent chance that Waterford has to become a driving force within the region.

Can objections be lodged for this? If so, I will be objecting because they are setting the city up to fail for their half-arsed plan.

Are these people elected, or civil servants

hardybuck

Santan wrote: »

Are these people elected, or civil servants

Civil Servants don't work in Councils.

Santan

hardybuck wrote: »

Civil Servants don't work in Councils.

But who will be the ones to plan and approve planning permission, I can't imagine that is a councillor job

hardybuck

Santan wrote: »

But who will be the ones to plan and approve planning permission, I can't imagine that is a councillor job

I think the SDZ applications go directly to An Bord Pleanala.

Councillors, to the best of my knowledge, can agree local area development plans etc. but don't have a role in approving applications for planning permission.