Waterford North Quays

Wanderer78

Dunmoreroader wrote:

Some sour grapes out of Rob Cass in the Business Post. Disappointing, I've been a cheerleader for him.

Must have a read of it, you have to give it to him, it was and still can be something great for the region, we d be lost without people such as him, in regards their thinking. Its unfortunate it hasn't worked out, but I think whatever it ll be, could be better for us in the long run. We ve become too reliant on foreign investment for such projects, this results in more wealth extraction than anything, we must start believing in ourselves, that we can do such things ourselves, we have the people and know how, we can do it.

Harry Palmr

Don't see much wrong there on the face of it. The reference to the council's lack of expertise/ experience in this scale of project is clearly true. Was there ever a dedicated project manager on the public side of this?

Deiseen

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Don't see much wrong there on the face of it. The reference to the council's lack of expertise/ experience in this scale of project is clearly true. Was there ever a dedicated project manager on the public side of this?

No one dedicated to this at council level or government level as far as I know.

Frightening to believe that is true for a project of this scale.

dzilla

It didn't work out for him this time but cannot fault his effort.

Dunmoreroader

killbillvol2 wrote: »

Where's the sour grapes? And what did he say that isn't accurate?

I'm no fan of public sector speed, efficiency or value for money, believe me, but slagging it off in the media doesn't seem to me to be useful if Falcon intend re-tendering. He probably is accurate but WCCC have done a lot and spent more than Falcon, how does it help having little digs in the papers?

Wanderer78

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

I'm no fan of public sector speed, efficiency or value for money, believe me, but slagging it off in the media doesn't seem to me to be useful if Falcon intend re-tendering. He probably is accurate but WCCC have done a lot and spent more than Falcon, how does it help having little digs in the papers?

i suspect hes a free market libertarian, their default is to always blame the government for failures, in reality this is only partly true, he should take a long look at his own sectors failures!

killbillvol2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i suspect hes a free market libertarian, their default is to always blame the government for failures, in reality this is only partly true, he should take a long look at his own sectors failures!

You obviously haven't even read the piece. He clearly points to failures on their side.

Wanderer78

killbillvol2 wrote: »

You obviously haven't even read the piece. He clearly points to failures on their side.

i ll get to that alright, but such folks certainly are prone to defaulting, and it certainly seems this is the case, to a degree, but i do give him credit, because it is due to him

curmudgeonly

Wanderer78 wrote: »

i ll get to that alright, but such folks certainly are prone to defaulting, and it certainly seems this is the case, to a degree, but i do give him credit, because it is due to him

You're fairly good at the auld defaulting yerself!

Wanderer78

curmudgeonly wrote: »

You're fairly good at the auld defaulting yerself!

am indeed, has cass admitted that his sector is potentially one of the most dangerous currently in existence, and is one of the main causes of our housing shambles, in that article?

mayordenis

killbillvol2 wrote: »

You obviously haven't even read the piece. He clearly points to failures on their side.

He barely points to failures on their side, he basically says (government owned) Irish banks won't lend, the pandemic (and if you know his stance on this) and the (government imposed) lockdowns didn't allow his mates to come have a look at Waterford (5+ years into the project), a foreign bank pulled out, the council (local government) lack expertise and weren't timely enough (even though they had several extensions and they missed the crucial dates).

So, no I don't at all see anything in that piece that admits fault, even partially. Just some nameless foreign bank pulling out. Remember this was 'the smallest project' that him and his developers have ever undertaken, and they have apparently vast resources. Weird that if they saw such a project as something they believed in that they could secure the funds for such.

Like jesus, they even had 50% of office space, apartments, and of course the hotel already sold. They'd have to have had the worst bank on earth to think the risk there was too high.

Max Powers

mayordenis wrote: »

He barely points to failures on their side, he basically says (government owned) Irish banks won't lend, the pandemic (and if you know his stance on this) and the (government imposed) lockdowns didn't allow his mates to come have a look at Waterford (5+ years into the project), a foreign bank pulled out, the council (local government) lack expertise and weren't timely enough (even though they had several extensions and they missed the crucial dates).

So, no I don't at all see anything in that piece that admits fault, even partially. Just some nameless foreign bank pulling out. Remember this was 'the smallest project' that him and his developers have ever undertaken, and they have apparently vast resources. Weird that if they saw such a project as something they believed in that they could secure the funds for such.

Like jesus, they even had 50% of office space, apartments, and of course the hotel already sold. They'd have to have had the worst bank on earth to think the risk there was too high.

Some good points there mayor Denis, blaming the council doesn't really stand up on this, maybe they could have been a bit quicker on various things, I don't know if it would made much of a difference.

mayordenis

Couldn't agree more, like everyone I wasn't thrilled with the council at certain stages not being a bit quicker - but it didn't kill the project.

SeanieW1977

mayordenis wrote: »

He barely points to failures on their side, he basically says (government owned) Irish banks won't lend, the pandemic (and if you know his stance on this) and the (government imposed) lockdowns didn't allow his mates to come have a look at Waterford (5+ years into the project), a foreign bank pulled out, the council (local government) lack expertise and weren't timely enough (even though they had several extensions and they missed the crucial dates).

So, no I don't at all see anything in that piece that admits fault, even partially. Just some nameless foreign bank pulling out. Remember this was 'the smallest project' that him and his developers have ever undertaken, and they have apparently vast resources. Weird that if they saw such a project as something they believed in that they could secure the funds for such.

Like jesus, they even had 50% of office space, apartments, and of course the hotel already sold. They'd have to have had the worst bank on earth to think the risk there was too high.

Lyle Lanley.

jelutong

Getting the Ard Ri hotel up and running would be a good way to kick things off in my opinion. And possibly a theme park on the North Quays to attract families.

Wanderer78

jelutong wrote:

Getting the Ard Ri hotel up and running would be a good way to kick things off in my opinion. And possibly a theme park on the North Quays to attract families.

Definitely should be included in the plans, the whole north side of the city has huge potential

PTH2009

Is the Guardian Of The Deise still going ahead ?

Oscar Madison

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is the Guardian Of The Deise still going ahead ?

Would ye ever grow up!

Flow Motion

jelutong wrote: »

Getting the Ard Ri hotel up and running would be a good way to kick things off in my opinion. And possibly a theme park on the North Quays to attract families.

Bit delusional dont you think?? Kingdom of the Trolls overlooked by the Guardian of the Deise Statute and a cable car ride between the two. Sounds plausible eh?? Why dont the WCCC just turn the whole area into a public amenity pro tem?? Plant some trees, make a boardwalk, park etc just to take the vacant look off the area. Realistically its going to be a long time before any serious development appears on-site. The WCCC could then focus their attention on the actual city centre which at times appears vacant apart from Penneys, charity shops, coffee shops and a few nice independent shops. TBH a lot of folk shop outside the town these days be it online or instore; jump on a train @ 7.30 Sat morning and you are in Dublin for 9.30 approx. Luas into town and you are in the heart of things b4 10 bells. Catch the 5.30 back and you are back in the Deise for 8. All for 20euros. A nice day out all around.

friendlyfun

Could put a big statue of John Mullane with fire breathing out his mouth a regular intervals. They could have his head move sideways in line with the tidal patterns. We could have our own version of Tayto park beside it but for Blaas.

Wanderer78

friendlyfun wrote: »

Could put a big statue of John Mullane with fire breathing out his mouth a regular intervals. They could have his head move sideways in line with the tidal patterns. We could have our own version of Tayto park beside it but for Blaas.

free blaas, im in!

Harry Palmr

PTH2009 wrote: »

Is the Guardian Of The Deise still going ahead ?

I did hear mention of this last week but nothing of substance. It's still out there as a project it seems.

Flow Motion

friendlyfun wrote: »

Could put a big statue of John Mullane with fire breathing out his mouth a regular intervals. They could have his head move sideways in line with the tidal patterns. We could have our own version of Tayto park beside it but for Blaas.

Love it :pac: You are a visionary!

Imagine a grey foggy day when you could barely see a few feet in front of you; but rather than a fog horn sounding you could have JM's catchphrase "I loves me county" echoing through the hills of Waterford.

The Mullane statue would be a game changer though. Perhaps we could add a few more local characters to the mix over time so we could have our own Deise version of Mount Rushmore?? We'd need 3 more heads to fill the gaps. Any suggestions??

Harry Palmr

Retro showbiz.

Hal Roach, Gilbert o'sullivan, Brendan Boyer, Val Doonican, Anna Manahan.

imacman

Flow Motion wrote: »

Bit delusional dont you think?? Kingdom of the Trolls overlooked by the Guardian of the Deise Statute and a cable car ride between the two. Sounds plausible eh?? Why dont the WCCC just turn the whole area into a public amenity pro tem?? Plant some trees, make a boardwalk, park etc just to take the vacant look off the area. Realistically its going to be a long time before any serious development appears on-site. The WCCC could then focus their attention on the actual city centre which at times appears vacant apart from Penneys, charity shops, coffee shops and a few nice independent shops. TBH a lot of folk shop outside the town these days be it online or instore; jump on a train @ 7.30 Sat morning and you are in Dublin for 9.30 approx. Luas into town and you are in the heart of things b4 10 bells. Catch the 5.30 back and you are back in the Deise for 8. All for 20euros. A nice day out all around.

I was in Kilkenny at the weekend and a much as I dont like to saying it they are doing a decent job in the Abbey quarter .They are upgrading one of the old brewery buildings into new impressive office building and working on an urban park along the riverside. They recently opened a new skatepark down there too .Its much smaller than the NQ but is a good example of how a transformative public amenity project can driven by a local council .

Wanderer78

imacman wrote: »

I was in Kilkenny at the weekend and a much as I dont like to saying it they are doing a decent job in the Abbey quarter .They are upgrading one of the old brewery buildings into new impressive office building and working on an urban park along the riverside. They recently opened a new skatepark down there too .Its much smaller than the NQ but is a good example of how a transformative public amenity project can driven by a local council .

ah kilkennys a stunning spot, but we have tons of potential here, and great local businesses and business minds, we can do it

Flow Motion

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Retro showbiz.

Hal Roach, Gilbert o'sullivan, Brendan Boyer, Val Doonican, Anna Manahan.

All good names but I'd say you would have to have a variety of ppl from different backgrounds; Mullane for Sport; Boyer for Light Entertainment; which leaves two "heads" to fill. You would have to have a female for gender balance.

Thinking further down the line a la Prague how about a Charles Bridge effect? Any major/minor heads not on the Mount (of Deise) Misery focal point could have their heads (or statues) at various intervals either side of the Bridge.

The only drawback to Mount Deisemore would be the inevitable retaliation from our KK neighbours down the line. The ongoing phoney intermittent paint-your-county-flag-on-the-cliff-face wars would surely escalate into a full blown diplomatic incident. I can hear the thunderous footsteps of a Godzilla-like Henry Shefflin moving south towards Waterford Golf Course to pepper the city with sliotars!

jelutong

Is there anything to be said for another car park?

killbillvol2

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ah kilkennys a stunning spot, but we have tons of potential here, and great local businesses and business minds, we can do it

We don't though. Do we?

Our great local business minds bought the land by the river and paved it and painted white lines for cars. Then the visionary council narrowed the quay and painted more white lines on the other side for more cars!

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/pedestrianisation-of-irish-city-streets-begins-ahead-of-outdoor-summer-1.4574058

Article from the IT on Monday about plans to pedestrianise more areas of cities for the summer - mentions of Waterford's plans? Zilch. I actually rang the council to enquire about plans and was given an email address to contact - in other words PFO.

Crusty Blaa

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ah kilkennys a stunning spot, but we have tons of potential here, and great local businesses and business minds, we can do it

Having worked in Kilkenny for years I always found the grá and jealousy towards the place a bit puzzling and generally from people with rose tinted glasses. Yeah it's a nice town but unless you're mad for pints there's not much to it and the traffic is horrendous especially since they brought in the one way system. The castle is beautiful but we can't exactly build one of them.

Waterford has a lot more to offer tourists in terms of museums, landmarks, Waterford Crystal, walks, beaches etc. However we do need to sort out the hospitality shortfalls in Waterford - there's a reason it's generally only used as a day stop on tours whereas KK is an overnighter.