Waterford North Quays

Harry Palmr

https://waterford-news.ie/2020/12/01/coming-months-crucial-for-north-quays/

and

Separately, Cllr Jason Murphy (FF) asked if the integrated transport hub was going to be future proofed as a multi-platform railway station that could provide for expansion. He also sought clarification on what was going to happen with Plunkett Station once the new hub is built.

In response, Mr Walsh said there would be two platforms at the integrated transport hub, which will be longer than that available at the existing station. What is done with the current station was a matter for Irish Rail, he said.

As the green light has been given for the North Quays, Cllr Pat Nugent (FG) asked if there was any movement on the Ard Ri Hotel.

Director of Services, Economic Development & Planning, Michael Quinn said the Council has had some discussions with the reported owner of the former hotel. “There are plans for its redevelopment, but obviously they can’t proceed until the legal issues are full resolved.”

from here which mentions crossing at Tower Hotel.
https://waterford-news.ie/2020/12/01/second-vehicular-bridge-across-river-suir-remains-a-viable-option/

smellyoldboot

fricatus wrote: »

There was a pretty major investment in the Bus Éireann Waterford city services about 18 months ago. You can Google the details, but all the buses were replaced, frequency increased, Leap card introduced, Sunday service brought in, etc. Despite having cars, we got Leap cards ourselves and started using the bus for trips into town just before the pandemic struck. Once it’s over, we’ll be doing so again.

Still ****e, always late and only operate specific and archaic routes ie; you can't link between a lot of suburbs and the Industrial Estate,WIT or Hospital without first entering the city centre and changing bus at least once. Think John's Park to Industrial Estate or Lisduggan to Ardkeen. Can't be done without at least one change and potentially 90 minutes journey time. Mental. They are almost a blueprint for how to run transport services so badly you actually force more people into cars.

The one thing I will give them is the newly hired drivers are streets ahead in terms of basic manners and professionalism from the grumpy entitled old sods that were there before.

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote:

Still ****e, always late and only operate specific and archaic routes ie; you can't link between a lot of suburbs and the Industrial Estate,WIT or Hospital without first entering the city centre and changing bus at least once. Think John's Park to Industrial Estate or Lisduggan to Ardkeen. Can't be done without at least one change and potentially 90 minutes journey time. Mental. They are almost a blueprint for how to run transport services so badly you actually force more people into cars.

Yup, if they want people out of their cars, they're gonna have to pull something amazing outta the bag, nobody has a spare hour or two a day to be jumping from bus to bus, you d probably walk to your destination quicker

BBM77

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Yup, if they want people out of their cars, they're gonna have to pull something amazing outta the bag, nobody has a spare hour or two a day to be jumping from bus to bus, you d probably walk to your destination quicker

Always thought there needs to be an orbital route around Waterford. All the routes are radial from the city centre. If you live out the Dunmore road area for example and work out the Cork road area or attending WIT, it takes forever to travel back and forth by bus so is not really an option as you say.

91wx763

smellyoldboot wrote: »

Still ****e, always late and only operate specific and archaic routes ie; you can't link between a lot of suburbs and the Industrial Estate,WIT or Hospital without first entering the city centre and changing bus at least once. Think John's Park to Industrial Estate or Lisduggan to Ardkeen. Can't be done without at least one change and potentially 90 minutes journey time. Mental. They are almost a blueprint for how to run transport services so badly you actually force more people into cars.

The one thing I will give them is the newly hired drivers are streets ahead in terms of basic manners and professionalism from the grumpy entitled old sods that were there before.

Points well made there indeed.

On the driver comment though there are still one or two needing the P45. One in particular on hospital route is going to get a bump on the nose one day for the way he berates the passengers for the slightest reason.

Finnbar01

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Reinforced? I understood the old wharfs and pillars were being removed and completely replaced, no?

Those old wharfs and pillars are donkey years old and are historical artifacts.

There's no way in the World am I going to stand by and watch our history and heritage been cast aside!

I'm immediately going to start a petition to prevent this from happening!

Who's with me?

Dunmoreroader

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Those old wharfs and pillars are donkey years old and are historical artifacts.

There's no way in the World am I going to stand by and watch our history and heritage been cast aside!

I'm immediately going to start a petition to prevent this from happening!

Who's with me?

Maybe you could collect them as they're being demolished and sell off chunks at a time like the Berlin Wall.

Wanderer78

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Those old wharfs and pillars are donkey years old and are historical artifacts.

There's no way in the World am I going to stand by and watch our history and heritage been cast aside!

I'm immediately going to start a petition to prevent this from happening!

Who's with me?

i ve a couple of wetsuits if you wanna save them yourself, maybe you can chain yourself to them

Harry Palmr

North quays now officially owned by Falcon properties.

https://t.co/u7IXwmhAjD?amp=1

smellyoldboot

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Those old wharfs and pillars are donkey years old and are historical artifacts.

There's no way in the World am I going to stand by and watch our history and heritage been cast aside!

I'm immediately going to start a petition to prevent this from happening!

Who's with me?

Few appeals to go along with it. Might get a right oul run of a few years out of it.

smellyoldboot

Harry Palmr wrote: »

North quays now officially owned by Falcon properties.

https://t.co/u7IXwmhAjD?amp=1

Alan Azkabar!

Wanderer78

Harry Palmr wrote:

North quays now officially owned by Falcon properties.

Easy money, bought relatively cheaply, build some high value property on it, little or no wealth taxes involved such as a lvt(land value tax), happy days!

Asdfgh2020

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Those old wharfs and pillars are donkey years old and are historical artifacts.

There's no way in the World am I going to stand by and watch our history and heritage been cast aside!

I'm immediately going to start a petition to prevent this from happening!



Who's with me?

Very few with you I’d say.....you will be paddling your own canoe 🛶 against the flow and tide of the river suir.....

Asdfgh2020

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Easy money, bought relatively cheaply, build some high value property on it, little or no wealth taxes involved such as a lvt(land value tax), happy days!

Unfortunately it’s the way of the world these days if you believe in loosely regulated free market economics/capitalism...at least some ‘money’ has changed hands for the lands.....do we actually know what the ‘agreed price was’.....?

Could you elaborate on how the LVT and wealth tax model you talk about would actually work....?

rekdtangle

Asdfgh2020 wrote: »

Unfortunately it’s the way of the world these days if you believe in loosely regulated free market economics/capitalism...at least some ‘money’ has changed hands for the lands.....do we actually know what the ‘agreed price was’.....?

Could you elaborate on how the LVT and wealth tax model you talk about would actually work....?

Reported to be €9m. This includes Michael Street site which was the more expensive of the 2.

Bards

Harry Palmr wrote: »

North quays now officially owned by Falcon properties.

https://t.co/u7IXwmhAjD?amp=1

Not yet, contracts still need to be signed..

Harry Palmr

Anyone got a pen?!

Wanderer78

Asdfgh2020 wrote:

Unfortunately it’s the way of the world these days if you believe in loosely regulated free market economics/capitalism...at least some ‘money’ has changed hands for the lands.....do we actually know what the ‘agreed price was’.....?

The reality is, if we continue as is, humanity is screwed, it's clearly obvious that critical elements of society are showing significant distress, this is very evident, politically, economically, socially and environmentally, we can't keep doing this, particularly for younger generations!

Asdfgh2020 wrote:

Could you elaborate on how the LVT and wealth tax model you talk about would actually work....?

I've an extremely vague understanding of lvt, but you 'll find most economic commentators, primarily left leaning, advocate for it, including respected Irish ones. My understanding of it, and I could be completely wrong, taking the north quays as an example, the price of that land is now sky rocketing, and will continue to do so, and more than likely, for the remainder of it's existence. This rapid increase in valuation is effectively untaxed, developers use this rapid increase in valuation to guarantee it's debt obligations, and any other debt obligations, including from other projects globally. And since we currently live in the age of record low rates, receiving credit from creditors, is like receiving free money, as the developers are almost guaranteed massive returns on their investments, virtually tax free, or low rates of tax.

These activities are what is called 'rent seeking', and they truly only benefit a small proportion of society, many of which don't even live here. So effectively, we pick up the tab, while others prosper, and how do we pick up the tab! You 'll find these activities cause feedback loops, particularly in relation to property and land prices in the region, causing them to rise! Then of course, don't forget about taxes such as property tax!

Oh yea, developers try to, and successfully do so, 'derisk', their projects, id argue this is being done by pushing the public infrastructure needed for the project, which is essential, firmly into the public domain. The developer could easily borrow the money required, and handle the actual work required, but it's a little more difficult to engage in rent seeking behaviour from it's activities, but not impossible. One of the most common ways of doing so, is by tolling this infrastructure, which would probably mean tolling rice bridge, and probably other infrastructure. This clearly wouldn't go down too well, so in the view point of a developer, it would make sense to push it towards the state. It also means not having to deal with other complexities such as public sector unions etc.

I personally also believe the developers are also derisking by engaging in other property developments in the region, this land is also rising significantly in value, so when they go to sell these other properties to the market, it's all easy money, as their overall activities cause property and land prices to rise significantly in the region, resulting in the rising tide, where everyone wins, or do they!

Bards

Wanderer78 wrote: »

The reality is, if we continue as is, humanity is screwed, it's clearly obvious that critical elements of society are showing significant distress, this is very evident, politically, economically, socially and environmentally, we can't keep doing this, particularly for younger generations!



I've an extremely vague understanding of lvt, but you 'll find most economic commentators, primarily left leaning, advocate for it, including respected Irish ones. My understanding of it, and I could be completely wrong, taking the north quays as an example, the price of that land is now sky rocketing, and will continue to do so, and more than likely, for the remainder of it's existence. This rapid increase in valuation is effectively untaxed, developers use this rapid increase in valuation to guarantee it's debt obligations, and any other debt obligations, including from other projects globally. And since we currently live in the age of record low rates, receiving credit from creditors, is like receiving free money, as the developers are almost guaranteed massive returns on their investments, virtually tax free, or low rates of tax.

These activities are what is called 'rent seeking', and they truly only benefit a small proportion of society, many of which don't even live here. So effectively, we pick up the tab, while others prosper, and how do we pick up the tab! You 'll find these activities cause feedback loops, particularly in relation to property and land prices in the region, causing them to rise! Then of course, don't forget about taxes such as property tax!

Oh yea, developers try to, and successfully do so, 'derisk', their projects, id argue this is being done by pushing the public infrastructure needed for the project, which is essential, firmly into the public domain. The developer could easily borrow the money required, and handle the actual work required, but it's a little more difficult to engage in rent seeking behaviour from it's activities, but not impossible. One of the most common ways of doing so, is by tolling this infrastructure, which would probably mean tolling rice bridge, and probably other infrastructure. This clearly wouldn't go down too well, so in the view point of a developer, it would make sense to push it towards the state. It also means not having to deal with other complexities such as public sector unions etc.

I personally also believe the developers are also derisking by engaging in other property developments in the region, this land is also rising significantly in value, so when they go to sell these other properties to the market, it's all easy money, as their overall activities cause property and land prices to rise significantly in the region, resulting in the rising tide, where everyone wins, or do they!

And this relates to the North Quays how?

Please stop sabotaging forums with your waffle and start your own thread

Wanderer78

Bards wrote: »

And this relates to the North Quays how?

Please stop sabotaging forums with your waffle and start your own thread

god, take me off this planet!

this is how the world of the fire (finance, insurance and real estate) sectors works, this is at the heart of the north quays project!!!!!

again, boards is a public forum, whereby people should be allowed to express their opinions on the subject matters discussed, boards has also facilitated its users with functions to make the experience more pleasurable such as an ignore function!

azimuth17

Wanderer78 wrote: »

god, take me off this planet!

this is how the world of the fire (finance, insurance and real estate) sectors works, this is at the heart of the north quays project!!!!!

again, boards is a public forum, whereby people should be allowed to express their opinions on the subject matters discussed, boards has also facilitated its users with functions to make the experience more pleasurable such as an ignore function!

I'm beginning to form the opinion that you are Asdfgh2020 and are talking to yourself. The written syntax is remarkably similar?

Wanderer78

azimuth17 wrote: »

I'm beginning to form the opinion that you are Asdfgh2020 and are talking to yourself. The written syntax is remarkably similar?

or are we the same person! possible both with similar issues, who knows

Aquos76

Bards wrote: »

And this relates to the North Quays how?

Please stop sabotaging forums with your waffle and start your own thread

@Wanderer78, I actually agree with Bards here, you speaking about humanity is nothing to do with the North Quays project. Some of the points you make in this thread can be attributed to the impact of such a development, but you have a tendency to go further into things which then start to take the thread off topic.

Other users including myself has asked you to create a separate thread on your views, you seem to be very passionate about these views and I respect your point of view, but you then go on the offensive when others disagree with you but telling users to put you on ignore and that they don’t have to read your posts. Well this is the final warning to you, stop trying to detail threads. You are a very good contributor to this forum but you are in danger of having a ban issued if you continue to ignore the instructions to stop derailing threads

Wanderer78

Aquos76 wrote: »

@Wanderer78, I actually agree with Bards here, you speaking about humanity is nothing to do with the North Quays project. Some of the points you make in this thread can be attributed to the impact of such a development, but you have a tendency to go further into things which then start to take the thread off topic.

Other users including myself has asked you to create a separate thread on your views, you seem to be very passionate about these views and I respect your point of view, but you then go on the offensive when others disagree with you but telling users to put you on ignore and that they don’t have to read your posts. Well this is the final warning to you, stop trying to detail threads. You are a very good contributor to this forum but you are in danger of having a ban issued if you continue to ignore the instructions to stop derailing threads

lads, please do some reading on this, theres plenty of respected economic commentators writing about this, including irish ones, seriously, or your kids and grand kids are probably gonna get screwed, particularly in relation to their property needs, this is now becoming deeply disturbing! hope your own young fella is doing better

heres an idea, maybe ive a different view point on these matters to most other posters, maybe i have a much deeper interest and understanding, im more than willing to explain where i get my information, all this info is easily accessible on the internets, it includes respected academics, none academics and even some central bank research.

im not trying to derail, these issues are at the heart of the north quays project, theres a reason why major developers have close links with the global financial sector! we are currently entering another credit fueled development boom in the region, we all know what happened the last time!

yes, it is okay for users to have differing views, and yes respect is required for discussions, but has respect being shown towards myself? does respect now mean, users can openly tell other users to take their opinions else where? theres something a little weird about that! im more than willing to engage with others regarding these matters, but respect all round, including from myself, is required to do so. always be wary of the plutocrat's, always! ive had these discussions, offline, with respected local business owners, they regularly agree with me! trust me, this is the heart of the project!

azimuth17

The Economic implcactions (sic) of housing in Waterford thread was started in July 2020 to cover the points being made ad nauseam by Wanderer 78. At least could we beg for brevity? The regurgitation of first year economics 101 etc. Those who are interested, have long read the points made. Those who are not, I suspect simply scroll past.

Wanderer78

azimuth17 wrote: »

The Economic implcactions (sic) of housing in Waterford thread was started in July 2020 to cover the points being made ad nauseam by Wanderer 78. At least could we beg for brevity? The regurgitation of first year economics 101 etc. Those who are interested, have long read the points made. Those who are not, I suspect simply scroll past.

so, respect means, trying to effectively force other users into other treads, so they cant express their opinions on particular matters, very interesting, very very interesting!

Aquos76

Ok,by us continuing to discuss Wanderer78 we are actually taking the thread off topic again now. I honestly don't feel comfortable where it seems everyone is ganging up on a particular user. In the future when posts are reported from this user, I am going to let another mod deal with them as the last thing I was to do is be accused of singling him out.

Wanderer78

are particular interest groups, such as politically aligned ones, involved!;)

smellyoldboot

What are we looking at now, 2041 completion date on this yoke?

Wanderer78

smellyoldboot wrote:

What are we looking at now, 2041 completion date on this yoke?

Has there been announcements of any changes, if not, I'd imagine it's full steam ahead?