Waterford North Quays

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199802#Comment_122199802

+1 ….

'some' people cant understand that ….

"Shur just build something, its better than whats there" - Thats the desperate part

Bards

By my highlighting that harcourt failed to lodge their application in time stops them from blaming the council when their application goes in late and is deemed invalid.. It takes that bullet out of their gun... I hope the media will begin to ask some hard questions now of harcourt and why they have failed to deliver on their own self imposed timeliness again and again...

In the normal planning process, you don't publish a pre planning application until you are ready to lodge the actual application and are just waiting for the newspaper advert to appear so you can include it in your application pack... It's not rocket science

In my humble opinion, it seems that Harcourt by their actions and inactions never had any intention of playing by the rules and are happy to string everyone along for as long as possible.

It's the art of seeing to do something while doing nothing at all

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122199982#Comment_122199982

I hope there's tighter conditions than that.

There's a buy back clause if the development dates not take place within two years of planning permission being granted.

What happens if planning permission hasn't been granted? Can the developer hold onto the land indefinitely if planning hasn't been granted? ...or even applied for?

Bards

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200919#Comment_122200919

That's the big issue.. Imagine how much that land will be worth once BAM have finished the access infrastructure.. Many multiples of that 5.1m for sure..

Makes Hopcast Ltd ripe for a takeover / Sale

Valhalla90

It is very strange they didn’t make the planning deadline! Then again do we really want a lame 6 storey hotel where we could have something of scale and a standout building.

Bards

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201336#Comment_122201336

Without a planning application we can't make submissions and observations unfortunately...

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122201399#Comment_122201399

Yes true but with a SDZ there’s not much room for change. The developer goes by the requirements from the SDZ and it’s almost a guaranteed safe sailing through the planning process as there cannot be appeals lodged.

Bards

Unless of course someone takes a Judicial review... Another developer perhaps who sees that things were not done quiet right.. Such as scaling back the retail element

Flow Motion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122198989#Comment_122198989

Thats not a bad shout. Wasnt John Cummins all over the media a few ago..

https://www.johncumminswaterford.ie/post/harcourt-developments-due-to-submit-transformational-north-quays-plans

As if this was gonna make ppl vote FF-FG ffs! Its exactly the kind of smoke + mirrors charade modern politics has become. Dont they realise that the GP have access to a wealth of info @ their fingertips and probably know as much as them! A clarion call on double-U-hell-R …

https://www.wlrfm.com/news/planning-for-north-quays-development-to-be-submitted-357880

He should be called on to update his "opinions" to the electorate before the local elections.

Or will elect to hideaway just like he did during Covid after 'Golfgate'!

Deiseen

Where are the SDZ guidelines for the North Quays?

Bards

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202418#Comment_122202418

Use Google.. Not hard to find

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202543#Comment_122202543

I have been trying to find it’s not that easy!

Bards

City Council website seems to have a lot of broken links since it was updated .. Email the council would be the best bet I would imagine

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202807#Comment_122202807

Yes the council site links don’t work!

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122200919#Comment_122200919

so are you saying that the developer has been ‘gifted’ all the SDZ lands for free as they have stated that they intend to lodge a planning permission and the council can ‘buy back’ the site in 2/3 years even if the planning and subsequently the development never takes place…..I know the council lads are deemed ‘thick and incompetent’ by the majority of the population but I doubt they are going to give away lands for next to nothing and have to buy them back at a future date at an inflated cost….?

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203274#Comment_122203274

No. The council sold the site to the developer. The conditions of sale include a buy back clause where the council can buy bank the site, at the original sale price, if the development does not take place within two years of planning being granted.

I would hope the council had the foresight to also have included unconditional time limits on when planning needs to be applied for and when the development needs to take place, otherwise the clock might never start ticking on the two year buy back condition if planning permission was not granted, or even applied for. In the absence of such terms the developer could in theory sit on the site without doing anything indefinitely.

Bards

... Meanwhile this valuable asset adds to the book value of the company to get favourable loan rates for other projects

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203378#Comment_122203378

they have already been through this process with the Arab lads and site was ‘purchased back’ was it not….? Surely they have leaned or adjusted the conditions since if there was anything ‘loose’ legally…?

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122202543#Comment_122202543

Actually very hard to find.

Bards

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203492#Comment_122203492

Site was never purchased by falcon.. The council wanted to see the money before handing over the land and it never transpired

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122203634#Comment_122203634

so why the change in tact this time….could be interpreted that council are desperate for something to commence…? You obviously know a lot more than me about how interest rates are applied based on balance sheets and other such financial ratios etc. Would be utter madness on councils part if this new developer could end up holding council to Ransome in a few years and profiting from it

Bards

It's worth reading this document dated 17th May 2021 which is now just over 3 years ago...

Here is an extract "A revised planning permission will only take three months to complete once ready given the Strategic Development Zone designation and there is a reality that the broader development market is in serious trauma post-Covid and it is only now that signs of re-emergence are beginning. It would be our clear objective to be at market by September where we envisage the broader development market growing significantly again in line with the reopening of society and we would now be targeting development commencement in Quarter 2, 2022."

https://waterfordcouncil.ie/waterford-north-quays/page/2/

Dexpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122197340#Comment_122197340

Thanks for highlighting this. It does look really unprofessional not to proceed after the notice was posted. Who knows what's going on in the background.

I very much doubt the council entered into the sale without a clause to buy back the site if planning permission is NOT applied for within a specified time. That would have been a very obvious thing to include to preclude sitting on the site while the value rises as the infrastructure is delivered.

The architects have presumably incurred huge costs and still have the NQ project as the banner on their homepage. The newspaper notice can be submitted followed by full planning documents the next day, if required. Until we have more information about the reasons for the delay, I'm hopeful it will be forthcoming. Maybe I'm being naive.

It's good to bring it to light and to follow up with the council and the media. The politicians who announced that planning was imminent should be held accountable.

You'd really need the patience of a saint with this though.

Aquos76

John Cummins seems to think the planning application will be submitted next week

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C7oXnLJNrAB/?igsh=MzdtMTl5OXlrcTZm

Bards

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206074#Comment_122206074

At this stage, it's a case of believing when I see it.. Don't trust any announcements about an announcement

Dexpat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122206161#Comment_122206161

Yeah I thing everyone would agree with this. Lets see.

914

I would expect them to submit the plans, worst case scenario, they just printed it in the paper again and submit it.

If a further two weeks pass then I'll begin to question it.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122207875#Comment_122207875

Can some answer this question…..do these developer guys actually now own the site / lands that the tower blocks and six storey hotel are supposed to be built on or not……?

Also is there anything stopping a serial objector from putting a spanner in the works and effin up the whole thing……

Is there any possibility that the money for the train station and bridge etc will dry up if the gubberment changes and Sinn Fein and some sort of coalition with independents got into power…?

Bards

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122208615#Comment_122208615

Hopcast Ltd owns the site

Only a Judicial review can put a spanner in the works (very costly to take)

Change of government will have no effect as contracts have been signed with BAM to undertake the works

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122209034#Comment_122209034

still find it difficult to comprehend that the developer has been given full ownership of the site in advance of getting planning permission and before a single brick is laid….have BAM ownership of the lands that they are building their stuff on….?