Waterford North Quays

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232197#Comment_122232197

Well Ferrybank may open anyway as a shopping centre and obliterate Waterford City while also lining the pockets of Kilkenny CC....

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232295#Comment_122232295

Indeed it may, albeit subject to planning as its the worst national example anywhere on this island of predatory planning (by KCC), but surely extra retail on NQ would merely exacerbate that obliteration? I dont think you want that ?

914

Plans are available on the council planning website for anyone interested

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232381#Comment_122232381

Bringing tens (possibly hundreds) of thousands of extra people into the city using a modern shopping centre (with all the brands people want) would only help the city centre. The current North Quays plan will not solve the leakage that we currently have.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122232451#Comment_122232451

So an 11 storey section to the hotel in line with the bridge.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233204#Comment_122233204

Looks like it. Saw this tweet where someone has screen shots of the offices/apartments for anyone who can't access the council site

https://x.com/bonjo7/status/1799211423010329087?t=DhWE9diKrmw9Xv1cG59v3w&s=19

Bards

here are all the photomontages for anyone interested.. I'm still not convinced it's a good plan.. Looks like something out of Russia (more akin to brutalist modern architecture rather than contemporary ) the whole development is just big blocks with no sense of place or different shapes to break up the monotony .. The hotel is hideous.. The whole development will date very quickly I feel

The temporary car parks should not be allowed and green space should be left instead until such time that phases 2 and 3 begin

Overall the whole development lacks imagination and the architects need to go back to the drawing board and start afresh

https://waterfordcouncil.eplanning.ie/iDocsWebDPSS/ViewFiles.aspx?docid=586873&format=djvu

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233255#Comment_122233255

When I saw the carparks in the plans I nearly vomited! I guess there is no way to dress up a carpark.

As for the apartments, they look bland, it's probably hard to dress apartments up also, they are always going to be a square block, I think the fact there is so many of them it's off putting.

I think Falcon had the apartments confined to one area and staggered where as this just places them in row which looks very me'h!

I think the hotel looks ok and is pretty standard in hotel design, the finish of it will be the deciding factor.

I am all for the development and the positivity but I really don't want us looking at this in 20 years and thinking "we f'd that up"

orangerhyme

Images here

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/threads/waterford-north-quays-sdz-hotel-residential-retail-up-to-10-fls-planning.2230642/page-14?post_id=188780519#post-188780519

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233435#Comment_122233435

The car parks indicate what many thought, that the development will be sequential and all the better for it, exactly like the Dublin NOrth Quays. What goes on then Cassin Wharf end of the site will be determined by the success or otherwise of the rest of the site. Its too valuable to be left for car parks. In my opinion anyway, no developer is going to do all out plans for an entire new site like this without seeing how things progress..

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233448#Comment_122233448

Anyone else feel like the hotel is facing the wrong way, as in the tallest part most iconic part should be on the river and now doc road.

I'm not convinced with the renders, too square and grey looking, easy for me to say as I'm not a developer but I would just love to see some ambition and imagination in the design

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233517#Comment_122233517

100% agree. The hotel is idiotic and ugly.

Deiseen

You seem to know more about the process than most.

What are the chances of tweaks to the design? I cannot fathom why they don't have the most iconic / highest part of the hotel situated on the waterfront.

Valhalla90

Hotel is horrific. Can’t believe we waited so long to be given this. It’s completely the wrong way around with the taller part on the train line side rather than the riverside. The hotel should be a minimum of 15 storeys. The SDZ stated there had to be a minimum height and a building of height and scale, this hotel is not suitable for this prime location.

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233754#Comment_122233754

I'm not sure if this is for me. I wouldn't be overly knowledgeable in the area but I wouldn't expect the plans to twerked dramatically

azimuth17

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233900#Comment_122233900

Presumably the hotel site has been marketed around to existing providers and what you see is the end result of those deliberations. Its a copy of hotels that one can see all round the country, six/seven storeys with top floor set back under a brise soleil to form a penthouse area, and is probably what the hotel groups would be happiest with. Waterford is not a mature hotel market, like Cork, Limerick or Galway, its still very much early stage tourism etc in this area and the cautious hotel design probably reflects that.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122233435#Comment_122233435

This is developer driven and therefore private sector money / borrowings…..they will have done their due diligence on the potential/non-potential of the site….i doubt a few comments on a group like this will overly bother them……if they feel a 15 storey hotel is not viable /doesn’t economically stack up there isn’t a huge amount Joe Public or the council can do to make them change anything….??

Dum_Dum_2

I can't see any utility for the people who live here. Who's it for? At least the original 'destination' retail element provided something interesting.

Just a nothing construction designed by nothing people.

Better off as a park/gardens/covered market/entertainment venue/anything but this

Anyway this design is in direct contravention of the local plan. A flat refusal by the Council is on the cards.

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234316#Comment_122234316

They have worked side by side with the council. There will not be a refusal on this site!

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234193#Comment_122234193

It's just my opinion and I don't expect a developer to take any notice of me or anyone else.

I think we were a bit spoilt with Falcons plans, had this have been the first go we would probably all be delighted but I guess we are comparing it to falcons and other previous designs/plan over the years.

I've already said it, I am looking forward to the development. Architects, Harcourt, council have put serious work into this, and as you say they will develop it to what they believe is financial viable.

It's worth noting this is just phase 1, we still have 2 and 3 to come.

Tbf while I, like others would like an iconic building of sorts even in falcons designs the area around the bridge was low rise buildings and the height development was where phase 2 and 3 will be located, I'd imagine the reason is not to over power the new bridge clock tower (pure guess btw).

Like all Waterford people I want the best for Waterford and crave something substantial that we can look at and be like "that's Waterford".

I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting some ambition and imagination which we may see in phase 2 and 3

914

A flat refusal on what grounds? I highly doubt there will be any refusal or amendments to the plans

Bards

Anyone interested in lodging a combined submission?

Dum_Dum_2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234452#Comment_122234452

As per Waterford City & County Development Plan 2022 – 2028:

Development on this key strategic brownfield city centre site should provide strong architectural design as a key landmark/ gateway to Waterford City;

Any development on the site must adhere to the North Quays STZ Planning Scheme as applicable at the time;

Development should maximise the sites river location and facilitate the development of the greenway/walkway along the riverside;

Any development should incorporate natural assets (river side location etc.) include potential open space and provide green infrastructure links. The site has potential to accommodate taller building(s) and has a potential yield of c. 300 units.

Fails on the first and third criteria.

Generic architectural design, not identifiable as a landmark nor gateway. Does not maximise riverside location.

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234503#Comment_122234503

Yes

914

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234512#Comment_122234512

Is that not on opinion though, some people in Waterford could look at these palms and be blown away with them as they buildings are nothing like we currently have in the city (on scale at least)

It allows for greenway/walkway along the riverfront and the plans have ample greenspace between buildings which I presume also has a view of the river.

I think points 1 and 3 are subject to opinion.

I'll find it very hard to see the council refuse this or look for the developer to make changes. It wasn't long ago the council themselves changed plans for Michael St as they stated there was no demand for another hotel.

Valhalla90

I think the apartments are fine my issue is with the hotel it’s a missed opportunity even had they made it all of glass with some sort of Viking or shipping theme it would compliment the city’s history. It just all feels very copy paste of the Dublin docklands!

orangerhyme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234503#Comment_122234503

I think people should be realistic.

Yes it would be great if it was more awe-inspiring and iconic.

But at the same time, it's probably difficult to build something financially viable there. This isn't Dubai where every developer is trying to make a statement and stand out from the others.

Developers want to make money. That's their primary motive.

If the hotel was taller, the costs go way up.

Valhalla90

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234624#Comment_122234624

The hotel and apart hotel could have been combined into one building,problem solved for height! It’s crazy in some aspects as in other cities there’s uproar due to height yet here in Waterford we are asking for it yet the developers don’t choose that route.

Bards

Even if they designed phase 2 and 3 and gave us an idea of what they are planning might help

Deiseen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122234629#Comment_122234629

I said the exact same thing. Combine them and increase the height.

Throw in another apartment block then to better the finances.