What's Wrong With Football Supporters

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Chucky the tree

the reason its done too opposing players is to put them off, and as banter against away fans.

impr0v

Football, as is all competitive sport, is a metaphor for war. The rest of the tribe also want to be involved in some capacity, to help their 11 best warriors who have been chosen to represent them. That's why we argue for our team against other teams in here and why fans attempt to wound other players, and refs, with abuse at matches. Hurling abuse is enjoying the football, and is supporting their own team. They get their weekly dose of conflict at the matches by feeling involved and then can go back to the mind numbing and violence free working week. And besides, hacking legs off with a broadsword was done away with after tireless and sustained fifa campaigning.

A Dub in Glasgo

What's Wrong With Football Supporters

On the whole, absolutely nothing. There are elements which are a disgrace to football supporters.

I go to 40+ matches evey season and it really annoys me the way some fans will not sing, will not shout, will only sit at the game expecting to be entertained 100% of the time.

Telling a straight man that he takes it up the arse is not homophobic. Calling a blackman a monkey is racist. There is a huge difference.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

AngelofFire

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

[D4 ACCENT]ohh yes i agree davidirl, us rugby supporters have far morre claas y`knoow, unlike them filthy commoners and their primitive game.[/D4 ACCENT]

A Dub in Glasgo

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

I do sing to support my own team, the only match where I take pleasure in abusing (verbal) the other team/fans is the Rangers game I was talking about people who go to the games and will not 'support' their own team or slag the other team, they are just zombies.

Can't agree at all, clearly it's meant as an insult, therefore it's saying something is wrong with homosexuality.

BTW I don't know if you know about it, but read about Justin Fashanu and then tell me that football fans aren't homophobic, or rather the organisation isn't homophobic on the whole.

Although I am not gay, I do not have any hang-ups or problems with people who are. I would imagine the reason it is sung at some players (although i have never heard this type of singing at the games I go to) is because the fans know that the player will probably take offence because of his attitude to homosexuality. I see this kind of banter in a totally different light to abusing a player just because he is black. It would be wrong to abuse a player just because he was gay.

You will also find that during some games (especially where the opposing team are superior) the opposition players will get booed when they are in possession of the ball and your own team will be cheered more vigourisly. I can remember doing this when Celtic played Barcelona. The whole idea is to try and create an imposing atmosphere where it might put off the other team. It is debatable if this really does affect the other team but it makes for one hell of an atmosphere when you are part of it and Celtic Park on a good European night is hard to beat.

SCULLY

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Although I am not gay, I do not have any hang-ups or problems with people who are. I would imagine the reason it is sung at some players (although i have never heard this type of singing at the games I go to) is because the fans know that the player will probably take offence because of his attitude to homosexuality.

Interesting - by that logic I can say that you take it up the arse and if you take offence that's a sign of your attitude to homsexuality.

A Dub in Glasgo

SCULLY wrote:

Interesting - by that logic I can say that you take it up the arse and if you take offence that's a sign of your attitude to homsexuality.

If I was a multi-millionaire football player who does very little work, I would not take offence. Notice I started say 'I would imagine' in the text above.

So what do you think about football supporters? Are you are supporter? Do you go to any games? If you do, do you sing? Do you shout? Are you the zombie type? Are you an armchair fan? Do you watch football on your own?

Lex Luthor

Although what I heard the other night in Spain was disgusting, the Lansdowne Rd boo boys for International players that have/do play for Rangers are just as bad in my mind.

A Dub in Glasgo

Lex Luthor wrote:

Although what I heard the other night in Spain was disgusting, the Lansdowne Rd boo boys for International players that have/do play for Rangers are just as bad in my mind.

Why?

ZENER

Interesting topic lads - but to think it doesn't effect players may be contradicted by Ashley Coles' claim today that it would discourage him from making his proposed move to Real !!

Racism is wrong but we are the hypocrits really - how many of us cheered when England lost and Ireland won - I know I did !

ZEN

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

SCULLY

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

If I was a multi-millionaire football player who does very little work, I would not take offence.

But since you are not (I persume) a multi-millionaire football player, would you 'imagine' that you would take offence??

And if being a multi-millionaire is some type of shield against taunts , what is the problem with what happened during the spanish game as all of the players on the pitch are rich?

Lex Luthor

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Why?

because they are being jeered for playing for Rangers. What has that got to do with an international?

A Dub in Glasgo

Lex Luthor wrote:

because they are being jeered for playing for Rangers. What has that got to do with an international?

Correct, they are being jeered for playing for a certain football club. Not really relevant at an international but you think it is comparable to rascism?

A Dub in Glasgo

SCULLY wrote:

But since you are not (I persume) a multi-millionaire football player, would you 'imagine' that you would take offence??

I would imagine I would not take offence. Would you?

And if being a multi-millionaire is some type of shield against taunts , what is the problem with what happened during the spanish game as all of the players on the pitch are rich?

Rascism is wrong and illegal

Any answers to the questions I asked?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

A Dub in Glasgo

You are right and it probably applies to homophobia and sectarianism as well (certainly in Scotland). I have never heard homophobic chants at a football match I have been to. I have heard racist chants from certain opposing fans. I have answered the general question of why football supporters abuse/boo/shout/sing as honestly as I can. I wish the folk who are coming in here and picking up on little things post their view (assuming they are football fans).

SCULLY

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

I would imagine I would not take offence. Would you?

I would take offense to anyone who shouts untruths at me (regardless to how much money I did or didn't have).

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Rascism is wrong and illegal

I think you will also find that slander is illegal.

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Any answers to the questions I asked?

Although I think the questions are irrelevant to my original point relating to your previous post , as you have asked me again here's my response :

1)So what do you think about football supporters?
There are many types of football supporters :
I think that most are genuine fans of the game and of the excitement and passion that it can generate (including the banter etc between team rivals)- I think these types of supporters are sound.
Then you have the those who use football as a methods of expressing their bigotry, racism or sectarianism points of view (and often hide behind the mask of team rivalry) - these are imho w**kers.

2) Are you are supporter?
As we are on a soccer board that you have to apply for , I would have thought that that is a given. But , yes, I am a football supporter (Chelsea).

3) Do you go to any games? Yes I do (Not as many as I would wish but financial restrictions limit the numbers of trips I make to Stamford Bridge (I have gone to Eircom League games but they never sparked the same interest).

4) If you do, do you sing? Yes

5) Do you shout? Yes

6) Are you the zombie type? Apart from the eating brains thing, no.

7) Are you an armchair fan? Well I do own one or two

8) Do you watch football on your own? When no-one else is there, yes.

A Dub in Glasgo

SCULLY wrote:

Although I think the questions are irrelevant to my original point relating to your previous post , as you have asked me again here's my response :

The questions are very relevant to this thread!

1)So what do you think about football supporters?
There are many types of football supporters :
I think that most are genuine fans of the game and of the excitement and passion that it can generate (including the banter etc between team rivals)- I think these types of supporters are sound.
Then you have the those who use football as a methods of expressing their bigotry, racism or sectarianism points of view (and often hide behind the mask of team rivalry) - these are imho w**kers.

At a fanatical level, most football fans can be described in one way or the other as bigots

'In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.'

I have no problem with someone who wants to express their identity or beliefs through sport (as long as they are not illegal). Is your description of these people as w**kers bigotted?

2) Are you are supporter?
As we are on a soccer board that you have to apply for , I would have thought that that is a given. But , yes, I am a football supporter (Chelsea).

Not obvious from your posts. You made no comment on the topic of the thread.

4) If you do, do you sing? Yes

5) Do you shout? Yes

What do you sing & shout? Do you ever slag the opposing team, the opposing fans, the ref?

SCULLY

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

At a fanatical level, most football fans can be described in one way or the other as bigots

I disagree

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

'In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion.'

I have no problem with someone who wants to express their identity or beliefs through sport (as long as they are not illegal). Is your description of these people as w**kers bigotted?

My original comment was that i think that those who use football as a method of expressing their bigotry, racism or sectarianism points of view (and often hide behind the mask of team rivalry) are imho w**kers. I stand by this (although by your own definition as a I'm a football fan chances are that I'm a bigot anyway).

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

What do you sing & shout? Do you ever slag the opposing team, the opposing fans, the ref?

Yes but there is a big difference between slagging someone and being abusive towards them.

A Dub in Glasgo

SCULLY wrote:

I disagree



My original comment was that i think that those who use football as a method of expressing their bigotry, racism or sectarianism points of view (and often hide behind the mask of team rivalry) are imho w**kers. I stand by this (although by your own definition as a I'm a football fan chances are that I'm a bigot anyway).

The fact that we have an application only football forum points to the fact that most football fans are intolerent of the views of their rivals. This, in most definitions, is bigotry. I never stated you were a bigot.

What do you mean by bigotry? Racism is a bit easier to understand, what about sectarianism? What situations would put football fans into your defintions and hence are w**kers?

Yes but there is a big difference between slagging someone and being abusive towards them.

So you have never called the ref a wanker or an idiot then? At what point does slagging become abuse?

Lex Luthor

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Correct, they are being jeered for playing for a certain football club. Not really relevant at an international but you think it is comparable to rascism?

It is racism in a round about way..ok technically speaking it's bigotist, but I don't think I'd like to be called either.

AngelofFire

daveirl wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Yeah i was just trying to add a bit of humour to the thread, was never meant to cause offence to rugby fans. Yeah it is a bit of a phenomenon that football has a bit of a hooligan element. Im going to have to be careful about how i word this, but i think that its because of its accessibility.Its a lot easier to kick a football around a street than it is to rugby tackle people. Therefore areas in britain and other places in europe where there a lot of ruffians and racists like the BNP or the German National Democratic party will also have a lot of footballs being kicked around their streets. GAA also can be played on the streets but the only facists we have in ireland are the stormfront people, which is just 10 blokes sitting behind a computer.

I agree with dave its not a socio economic thing, there are many football hooligans that are middle class.

phenom

It was a disgrace in what the "fans" did. Yes Some Hooligans arent as bad as others but still the racial abuse I heard was a disgrace none the less.

MrJoeSoap

People who boo ex-Rangers players at Ireland internationals are IDIOTS. People who wear Celtic jerseys to Ireland internationals are IDIOTS.

I'm sorry if I offend you, but it is my goal in life to wipe out mindless Celtic fans wearing jerseys to Ireland games.

A Dub in Glasgo

What about people who wear any other jerseys to Ireland games (apart from the opposition fans of course)?

eirebhoy

On the topic of football supporters. If you seen the Rangers - Celtic game you would have seen how riled up Lennon and MON got because of the anti-Irish abuse Lennon received. Lennon went OTT in spitting at a Rangers scarf on the sidelines but every day of the week he gets abuse in Glasgow. I heard a few people on the radio saying O'Neill's actions (ie. bringing Lennon over to the Celtic supporters and giving them a clenched fist salute) should be looked at by the SFA. He didn't do anything wrong at all. Lennon is closer to O'Neill than any other player and it would be like watching your son getting abuse for 90 minutes, you'd want to hit one of the fans giving it.

MON: "Neil Lennon, for whatever reason, suffers abuse at every ground and particularly here," O'Neill said. "I went on to show him that he is well thought of by our fans, who rightly appreciate the contribution he has made to the side over the last four years.

"I don't think I'll regret my actions of going on to the park. Every incident, every hand movement, can be taken to be a provocative gesture."

A Dub in Glasgo

Of course, here in Scotland, the majority of the media have ignored this type of racism. Graham Speirs, writing in The Herald today, calls it absolute correct.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/28351.html

growler

The actions of some of the Spanish fans were totally inappropriate and the Spanish FA should certainly suffer as a direct result, racism has no place in football these days.

The abuse, insults and taunts directed at opposition players and fans in the english leagues is just a bit of banter, it's childish name calling and all of these players and referees are no doubt instructed in how to deal with it.

As a regular visitor to premiership games at chelsea I have no objections to the regular taunting of certain visiting fans, particularly those from liverpool, west ham , Leeds and spurs. Neither do I have any particular objections to taunting Matin Keown for his monkey shaped head , Van Nistleroy for his horse-shaped head, Jason Lee for having a "pineapple on his head"., Alan Smith for being Alan Smith, Rooney for looking like Shrek, Francis Jeffers for being a diving b@st@rd, Aberdeen for being sheep sh@ggers etc etc. Nor do I generally disagree (in the heat of the game) that the referee often is a w@nker.

It's harmless, 15 years ago they were kicking seven shades out of each other. At least it gets the supporters involved, you need to keep the passion on the terraces (seated though they are). A lot of first time visitors are amazed with the atmosphere at Premiership games ( Arsenal excluded) as it seems so unusual to see people getting really emotionally involved as supporters of most sports.

I don't think it's really relevant to compare with rugby and GAA as they get their violence by proxy. Most of the old hooligans I know are all happy middle class folk these days.

eirebhoy

eirebhoy wrote:

On the topic of football supporters. If you seen the Rangers - Celtic game you would have seen how riled up Lennon and MON got because of the anti-Irish abuse Lennon received. Lennon went OTT in spitting at a Rangers scarf on the sidelines but every day of the week he gets abuse in Glasgow. I heard a few people on the radio saying O'Neill's actions (ie. bringing Lennon over to the Celtic supporters and giving them a clenched fist salute) should be looked at by the SFA. He didn't do anything wrong at all. Lennon is closer to O'Neill than any other player and it would be like watching your son getting abuse for 90 minutes, you'd want to hit one of the fans giving it.

MON: "Neil Lennon, for whatever reason, suffers abuse at every ground and particularly here," O'Neill said. "I went on to show him that he is well thought of by our fans, who rightly appreciate the contribution he has made to the side over the last four years.

"I don't think I'll regret my actions of going on to the park. Every incident, every hand movement, can be taken to be a provocative gesture."

MON's press conference has just been live on Radio Clyde 2. He was asked why he went on the pitch with Lennon after the match, he supposedly went furious at the journalist. He said exactly why I presumed he walked up with Lennon and that is because he and Lennon suffered secterian abuse.

It looks like everyone's on the Clyde site waiting for it to be uploaded. It will be up in the next 10 minutes.
http://www.clyde2.com/Article.asp?id=22552

eirebhoy

Lads, here is Martin O'Neill talking about the secterian abuse:
http://exodus.interoutemediaservices.com/delivermedia.asp?id=f1cb7d35-04a2-40bd-8272-ac2a7765eb78&delivery=stream

starts at around 4.40 mins. He gets really riled up after a few minutes. This is only from the last hour BTW.

A Dub in Glasgo

The media reaction to O'Neill & Lennon is an absolute disgrace. I notice the Irish Independent had their own dig. A fan racially abuses Yorke and it is all over the media with Yorke getting universal support. Neil Lennon has been racially & sectarianly abused since he came to Scotland, it was 90 minutes of abuse on Saturday and the media are hounding Martin O'Neill & Lennon for not talking it on the chin.

A disgrace