Goths

Karl Hungus

Keyzer wrote:

Then why bring up the subject?

I didn't, Achilles did when he brought up his point about jews and black people.

Keyzer wrote:

Of course I know that xenophobia is not confined to race and religion.

Then why act like people can't be discriminative against people based on their choices (In this case, the whole goth thing) as opposed to something their born as?

Keyzer wrote:

You shouldn't assume that you are intellectually superior to someone.
This site isn't called playschoolboards.ie is it? No its not, so stop playing around with ambigious, nonsensical points and speak english...

I don't have to assume that I'm superior.

Besides, this whole thread is absolutely retarded, and will most like get sent off to the thunderdome/recycle bin, or locked completely. So why not have some fun and roll around in the muck/eat worms with the other kids while the innevitable countdown to Mordeth's intervention it ticking away?

Corruptedmorals

chizzle dizzle wrote:

Corruptedmorals wrote:

That's the bottom line, eh? You sound like our PE teacher. Anyway, I wouldn't say anything. And to say that everyone would criticise them is generalising. I don't have a problem with skangers clothes, I don't like them and I would not wear them, but there's nothing wrong with that.


Thats Bull**** coruptedmorals, I know you personally and you hate skangers I've heard you totally critise them, dont lie, I've heard you.

Karl Hungus, back to reality hear. most people do critise the way skangers dress. i'VE HEARD YOU IN THE TRACKSUITE-DEPTHS OF FASHION thread.
You are totally contridicting yourself, jesus what is your problem.
A lot of rocker/goths are depressed weirdos that take drugs too ye know,every different class of people take drugs, its not just ****ing scags.
And yes I am being judgemental but so the **** are you.

Purplefistmixer this has every thing to do with skangers,you critise them so they have a right to critise how you dress!! DAH!! Stop just thinking that you are right,we all have our own opinions.

I don't judge them by their clothes though, you've misunderstood my post completely. Thanks for your neg rep, by the way. It is muchly appreciated.

Keyzer

At the end of the day, no one is saying anything on a personal level about Goths, I'm sure your all lovely people.

If you can't accept other peoples opinions without getting aggresive and moaning about it then your in the wrong place for a discussion/debate.
No one said that Goths were d1ckheads, or arseholes etc. They just said they dont like your clothes/fashion sense.

Probably Karl Hungus is right and this post will be shut down pretty soon so on that note lets start slagging each other off... you big bunch of C@ckknockers...

MrVestek

Wait hang on, where did the majority of my posts in this thread go? Were they deleted? If so... why?

Karl Hungus

Keyzer wrote:

Karl Hungus is right

YEAH! I'm right.
Everyone else STFU!

MrVestek

Wait never mind my last post... i have no sight... i cannot see...

This thread has degraded, alot. Point being... different people have different beliefs. Some like goths, as either a fashion trend or people (or whatever)... others don't. That's all... leave it alone now. No point in starting yet ANOTHER muppet war on boards.

Keyzer

Karl Hungus wrote:

YEAH! I'm right.
Everyone else STFU!

Im disappointed with this contextual ripoff after your "lecture" on the merits of contextuliasm...

Achilles, your posts were deleted when you submitted them because they were quite obviously filtered by the boards.ie bullsh1t filtering program...

Corruptedmorals

Why hasn't this been locked yet? The last thread of this ilk got a lock slapped on it pretty quick..

Fysh

chizzle dizzle wrote:

So we all have opinions and just deal with it and none of this"just get over it and its what we want to wear"crap.

Oh, bite me.

We all have opinions. Yes. You'll notice that, this being the fashion forum, those opinions being discussed generally fall under the region of clothing and associated styles. So far you and Keyzer have adamantly maintained several incorrect points, notably that being a goths and rockers are indsitinguishable (they're not), that goths are all black-wearing depressed losers (they're not : I presume that you've not heard of such subgroupings as cybergoths, etc) and most importantly, that being a goth is all about dressing in conformance to a certain style.

All of the above are wrong, particularly the notion of making assumptions about a person's entire personality based solely on their appearance. I don't assume that everyone wearing a velour tracksuit is a total scumbag, because quite a few people I know and like wear them. I still think they look crap, and I won't shy back from saying so. I think that it's a style that is popular with skangers, and again, I'll happily say so.

However, I don't sit here and say "everyone who wears a tracksuit is a total scumbag and should be set on fire, and furthermore people wearing t-shirts of bands they like is just f*cking not on, right!?". Spot the difference between me and you here.

It's perfectly damn obvious we disagree, and that's fine. What's not fine is claiming that your blatant and evident prejudice against anyone who appears to have any link to a certain lifestyle, based solely on the mainstream variant of the fashions associated with that lifestyle. And this is where the comparisons to xenophobia come in - you're looking at people and making decisions about their worth as people, based on what you can see of them. And before you say "well they don't have to dress like that", I'll remind you that this is, contrary to what you appear to believe, a relatively free country and there is no obligation on anyone to adhere to fashion standards defined by you. Nor do we have to put up with you ranting about how crap all rockers/goths are because they all, according to you, share certain characteristics. Especially not when people who evidently know far more about the finer details of being goth and associated styles repeatedly point out that you're, well, talking crap and you ignore what they say, instead choosing to claim that we're all as prejudiced as you are.

People having a choice about how they dress and what lifestyle they live does not make broad and offensive remarks like yours about an entire social group any less offensive than they would be if they were about a religious or ethnic group, and they're still pretty inflammatory.

In the words of John Constantine : "Here's a tip : get a new mind. The one you've got now is too narrow and full of crap".

PurpleFistMixer

chizzle dizzle wrote:

And yes I am being judgemental but so the **** are you.

Probably one of the worst reasons for doing something I've ever heard. Well, perhaps not THE worst but it's pretty bad. Do I need to say it? Oh well,
Just because other people do things you don't have to do them.
An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, ETCETERA.

chizzle dizzle wrote:

Purplefistmixer this has every thing to do with skangers,you critise them so they have a right to critise how you dress!! DAH!! Stop just thinking that you are right,we all have our own opinions.

Stop involving me personally in this now, I haven't mentioned (as far as I can recall, please correct me if I'm wrong) any opinions of mine for skangers as of yet and I have no intention to, it's irrelevant to the actual on topic part of this thread. Nor have I said I'm a goth (I would not consider myself to be, other people have/might but then again, it's clear some people don't really have a very good definition of what goth is), and I wouldn't criticise people over something in simple vengeance for their criticism of me.

Phh.

*claps at Fysh*
I'd give +rep but after all the whoring I don't exactly have any left.. x.x

mp3guy

now, the funny thing is, is this topic (and most other heated debates) would never end, things like this go on forever until someone murders someone, or people get bored. So, there isn't really much point in argueing a point, since no matter what you say, the other members will always have a comeback. But, i'm bored, so i'm going to anyway. Enough with the flaming and bad reping and what not, who started this topic knew that all this, well flaming and argueing was on the way. No ones ever going to win, so you might as well stop trying to solve different social groups disagreements and annoyances. But that would be no fun, so don't (this is a horrible post i know, but i don't care). I personally don't really care much about "goths" as some may call others/themselves. They don't bother me, so I don't bother them, or bother thinking about them... Basically, everyone should learn to not give a ****.

PurpleFistMixer

But arguing is so fun!


Until it starts just getting stupid.

mp3guy

meh, what you gonna do? All arguements are bound to get stupid... just like this one is getting now, in the last 3 posts (providing this comes in as number 114)

MrVestek

Ahh this is kinda getting ridiculous now tbh...

PurpleFistMixer

Well, when it gets to the point where it's just people repeating the same points at each other over and over again, you know it's just not worth it. But when people can actually come up with new angles or counters it's interesting.
And of course you know if yuo've let it get to name calling it's just waay too far.

mp3guy

yes, once name calling comes up, it means peoples ideas have ran dry (i never know ideas were wet in the first place) anyway, initally i came here to see what was going on, but it seems i've somewhat lightened the mood.l

segadreamcast

'An eye for an eye'... and the whole world will go blind.

Which, in the case of this thread, mightn't be such a bad thing - since seeing it hardly does anyone any good. Lock it - the debate's over.

mp3guy

there has been requests to lock it before, what makes you think you'll get it locked?

Keyzer

If I started a thread on "Bananas, love them or hate them", and people said the don't like bananas and give their reasons why and other people say the really love bananas and give there reasons why, thats fine isn't it?

The exact same thing, apart from the subject matter, should have happened here.

For instance, I don't particularly like banana skins, but I don't mind the fruit part under the skin (this does not mean I like naked goths, well, apart from sexy female ones but they'd have to be helluva sexy) does that mean my dislike of bananas is comparable to my opinion on Racism or Religion?
No, it doesnt...

Does it mean I am xenophobic? No, it doesn't....

It means one thing and one thing only, I don't like banana skins.
It doesn't mean I hate them, despise them, want every banana on the planet gathered up and destroyed... It means I don't like banana skins...

Now, I'm sure you all think I have taken a hit of mescaline or something, but substitute the word banana in the above analagy with Goth and clothing for skin.

Theres my point, plain and simple... thats it... thats all... really, thats all my original point is...

PurpleFistMixer

Yes, but that's because bananas aren't goths or anything to do with it. Bananas are just too different from this topic to use as a relevant analogy. Fashion/whatpeopledo/that stuff is something people choose. Bananas.. well, they're just bananas. Can't really do much about it.

Seraphina

Corruptedmorals wrote:

Why hasn't this been locked yet?

because Mordeth is a lazy stoner and spent most of the weekend smoking with me. hence he's missed the thread.

give him a while

anyways. i like the goth look, but its far too much effort to maintain on a daily basis. i have some gothy clothes i'd wear going out, cause i think the look is very sexy, but i would never consider myself a goth.
goths are fine by me, sure some of them look like muppets, but thats the way it is with every style. there are those who can pull it off and those who cant.

however. it appears to me that chizzle dizzle and keyser have some fundamental problems with 'other' people. i mean why are you getting so agressive over this? sure you dont like the look, but maybe i dont like your look? does that mean i should automatically decide you're a loser or not worth knowing? no, because i know this from your narrow minded and whiney posts.

get over yourself. you are not the fashion police (thank ****ing god)

Keyzer

however. it appears to me that chizzle dizzle and keyser have some fundamental problems with 'other' people. i mean why are you getting so agressive over this? sure you dont like the look, but maybe i dont like your look? does that mean i should automatically decide you're a loser or not worth knowing? no, because i know this from your narrow minded and whiney posts.

get over yourself. you are not the fashion police (thank ****ing god)

I dont have a problem with "other" people, my argument was based on fashion and the look of the Goth style... Please read my posts again before post remarks like this...

Keyzer

PurpleFistMixer wrote:

Yes, but that's because bananas aren't goths or anything to do with it. Bananas are just too different from this topic to use as a relevant analogy. Fashion/whatpeopledo/that stuff is something people choose. Bananas.. well, they're just bananas. Can't really do much about it.

Did you see the bit at the end of that post?
The bit where I said substitute etc.?

The reason behind using a banana was to highlight the ridiculousness of the Racism/Religion/Not liking other people points people were making...

For the last time - I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS

I just dont like the Goth fashion sense, if you seen me and didnt like my fashion sense then thats fine by me, your opinion, thats cool and the gang....

Seraphina

Keyzer wrote:

I dont have a problem with "other" people, my argument was based on fashion and the look of the Goth style... Please read my posts again before post remarks like this...

so why did you call them 'loser goths' or 'goth losers' or whatever it was you called them then?
why are they losers just cause they choose to dress in a way that you dont like?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Another thing is, these rocker clothes are so expensive so they seem to go to a lot of lengths just to buy some black t-shirt, but they cant by their clothes from like the ordinary shops like top shop or whatever, it has to be from asha or what ever your shops are called. cant let my frends know I shop in scag shops.

really dont think this happens, as far as i know asha only really sell stuff ya cant get in most other places (topshop anyway)

im sometimes called a goth (which im not) and all my t-shirts come from topman or gigs, and i work in another shop similar to topman and plenty of the goth\rocker types buy stuff there.

Someone mentioned something also about Converse being terrible for PE - yes they would be, they're the most uncomfortable shoes i have but maybe the girls had no other shoes?

leather coats comfortable in summer? - well in this country yes they probably are

If you are are a rocker or a goth or what ever you want to call yourself and if you see a scaganger walking down the street, you wouldn't say"oh ye their are entitled to their own dress sense and its whatever they feel comfortable in" you would critise and thats the bottom line. You would probably say"oh the state of them in their burbarry tracksuites-scumbags"

personally id think "sh|t is this guy gonna try steal my phone" (been mugged a few times) or if he was on his own i wouldnt think about him

Chizzle dizzle any chance you might be jealous of people who wear what they want (skangers, d4 heads included)and not what others want them to? - in one of your posts(think it was you anyway you practically slammed every style ive ever heard of)

on topic i think the goth look is great, more so on women

Fysh

Keyzer wrote:

For the last time - I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS I DONT HATE GOTHS

I just dont like the Goth fashion sense, if you seen me and didnt like my fashion sense then thats fine by me, your opinion, thats cool and the gang....

Let's have a review of Keyzer's early contributions to this thread:

Keyzer wrote:

Goths are losers, fullstop

Keyzer wrote:

Burn them all at the stake I say

Keyzer wrote:

to be honest when I see a Goth I think one word "Loser"

Keyzer wrote:

when I see someone wearing a trenchcoat, boots that you probably need to work out just to wear cos they are so heavy, white makeup and long black hair I think "Goth Loser"

Now, maybe it's just me, but the above comments do tend to suggest that, contrary to what you maintain, you do indeed have a problem with goths that goes farther than just not liking the fashion, since you're making assumptions about an entire social group based on their appearance. You've tried to claim that, because people's appearance and music tastes (and presumably by extension reading tastes, watching tastes, interests and hobbies in general) are a choice, that it's ok to lambast people for them, unlike the case of race and religion (which is a whole new can of stupid right there - Born-again Christians are just one example of a religion which requires people to make a choice as part of adhering to it, and it's possible for people of a religious background to choose to become atheists or vice versa. Now that it's made clear that people have a choice about their religion, is it ok for me to say "all catholics should be burned alive"? No, of course it's not.)

Your comments suggest a very poor interpretation of the idea of equal rights; equal rights means that no matter who you are or what your opinions are, you are considered to be of equal worth as anyone else. It makes no provision for you to judge people entirely on one aspect of themselves rather than treating them as individuals, irrespective of whether they have the power to change that aspect of themselves.

The reason the comparisons to xenophobia have arisen is because, if you interpret goth (correctly) as being a lifestyle rather than just a fashion (bear in mind that the "gothic" style includes schools of architechture, art, music, literature as well as clothing) then you can see how, in the comments I have selected above, substituting an ethnic or religious group for the word "goth" would in fact create an openly bigoted statement which would probably be considered incitement to racial or religious hatred.

You have tried to backpedal and claim that you only "meant" the fashion - but as I've pointed out, the fashion is only part of it. Your comments were stated in such a way as to apply to the whole lifestyle, hence the backlash.

DublinWriter

magpie wrote:

When I were a lad there was a terrible outbreak of goths / cureheads or whatever you want to call them, and I've noticed it creeping back into fashion parlance again courtesy of Mr Manson.

Goths...a totally middle class phenomina, usually a precursor to a brief period in third level education followed by a lifetime in marketing or accounting.

Spalk0

I have one or two Goth friends!And i have to say i admire them a bit!

Theres not many people out there who have the guts to fully express themselves in how they look or what they wear!I, for one, dont fully have the guts either!And while Goth is defineately not for me it is for some people!So what, id rather walk down the street and see all different types of people all dressed differently than everyone dressed similary!

Keyzer

In response to Fyshs post -

Thats my opinion mate, I think the modern Gothic "clothing" sense is terrible and pathetic. The thread asked for peoples opinions and I gave mine.
I am entitled to my opinion as are you, so respect my opinion as I respect yours. If you want to be Goth or wear chickens outfits or dress up like a f@cking klingon from star trek, go ahead, be my guest, I don't care. Thats not to say that I am putting a Goth in the same bracket as someone who wears a chickens outfit.

Now, as I repeat myself for 5 millionth time for all you people out there who cannot understand simple english, just because I think someones dress sense is ridiculous does not mean I hate them or that I am xenophobic.
It means one thing and one thing only - I think someones dress sense is ridiculous.

I gave my opinion, which I am entitled to.
I did not ever say that Goths shouldn't be allowed wear what they want or listen to what they etc.
I didn't say they should be exterminated or rounded up and sterilised so future goths will not exist. The comment about burning goths at the stake was in response to first post in the thread which said "Death to Goths or long live Goths"... I was not meant to be taken literally. It pains me that I have to spell this out for people.

We are talking about the clothes people wear (makeup included) here.
We are not talking about religion, race, ethnicicity or anything else. Goths are not a race, not a religion and not an ethnic group, so wake up and smell the coffee Fysh. Your talking complete rubbish if thats what you think. And if that is what what you think then you've got some serious problems. The fact that you even mention comparing Gothism to a Race/Religion and compare my dislike of Goth Style and my opinion of Goths to racism infuriates me. Its a stupid, idiotic, ridiculous argument to make which subsequently leads me to the conclusion that you, and as much as I dislike making this comment, are an imbecile.

I certainly think, from all the replies in this thread, that you "Goths" are very sensitive bunch of people who are not open to someone stating there negative opinion concerning your dress sense. I also think you need to grow up and get a life....

I swore to myself that I wouldn't get caught up another one of these threads, primarily because of the reaction of people to someone when that persons opinion is negative to theirs. If your not willing to accept another persons opinion, whether that be good or bad in your eyes, then why bother being part of a debate type thread in the first place?

Lemming

Keyzer wrote:

I dont have a problem with "other" people, my argument was based on fashion and the look of the Goth style... Please read my posts again before post remarks like this...

yes. You do. Tell me Keyzer, once again (since you didn't respond the first time I can only assume that I've caught a fallacy inside your own logic) do you insert the word "loser" when speaking about goths, but not "skangers" or "D4 Knobheads"

Statistically speaking, it should be "skangers" that have the word loser inserted since they seem to do the least well in society on every scale. Employment, criminality, social graces, etc, etc.

So explain to us all the psychological insertion of the word "loser" when speaking about goths whilst claiming not to have a problem with them and/or not hate them. The manner in which you use the word "loser" conveys very derisory conutations (sp?).

You are saying one thing, yet doing another.

So, either say what you mean or stfu being a muppet.

koneko

Who said the people replying in this thread are goths? You're making assumptions.

You can say you don't have a problem with them till you're blue in the face, but your words say otherwise. They're "losers", "terrible and pathetic", apparantly.

Calling people imbeciles btw is terribly infantile. Lemming you might want to take the advice from your own sig

Keyzer

koneko wrote:

Who said the people replying in this thread are goths? You're making assumptions.

You can say you don't have a problem with them till you're blue in the face, but your words say otherwise. They're "losers", "terrible and pathetic", apparantly.

Calling people imbeciles btw is terribly infantile. Lemming you might want to take the advice from your own sig

Form an opinion - Make up one's mind or decide what one thinks about something.

Loser, terrible, pathetic - yes, they are the words I used, thats my opinion, you don't have to like it, you just have to respect it.

Do you think I think about goths from one end of week to another?

I am not going to repeat this again - I don't have a f@cking problem with goths, I expressed my opinion in regards goths, thats all - Read this line over and over and over until you realise what it actually means.

I don't think the words I used merit the whining and moaning in this thread.
Again, stop being so sensitive get some lives...

Jim

Should you not respect the Goth's choice in what they wear?

koneko

I personally don't care, just think this thread is funny.

Again, stop being so sensitive get some lives...

So we don't have lives because we're questioning your posts, and you DO have a life despite your judgemental angry posts? That makes sense :rolleyes:

Anyway, like the man says, why should you respect your opinion if you can't respect people despite what they wear? Don't you see you're a hypocrite?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Keyzer wrote:

In response to Fyshs post -

Thats my opinion mate, I think the modern Gothic "clothing" sense is terrible and pathetic.
It means one thing and one thing only - I think someones dress sense is ridiculous.

Goths are losers, fullstop

hmmmmmmmmmmmm think the loser comment goes a *little* further than the dress sense bit

Lemming

Keyzer wrote:

Form an opinion - Make up one's mind or decide what one thinks about something.

Well then hurry up already and spare us the irritation of your blatant and bigotted hypocrasy

Loser, terrible, pathetic - yes, they are the words I used, thats my opinion, you don't have to like it, you just have to respect it.

I don't respect the "opinion" of someone who can't form their own opinion. Since it's clear you haven't. You don't have a thing against goths yet you use the above-mentioned words.

Apologies to Mord and Karl, but I'm going to call this one. You, Keyzer, sir, are a f*cking idiot. Siggy time for you.

I don't think the words I used merit the whining and moaning in this thread.
Again, stop being so sensitive get some lives...

Heh. Says he who is arguing on the 1nt3rw3b .... get a life indeed.

Keyzer

Forget it, Im bored trying to explain this.

Either the mental brainpower neccesary to interpret words properly and understand english just isn't there or people are just responding with tripe for a laugh, I suspect the former.

koneko

Keyzer wrote:

Either the mental brainpower neccesary to interpret words properly and understand english just isn't there or people are just responding with tripe for a laugh, I suspect the former.

Can you ever reply to a post without trying to insult people? Seriously....

Keyzer

koneko wrote:

Can you ever reply to a post without trying to insult people? Seriously....

Now you have just completely undermined yourself and contradicted yourself.

1. You critcise me for insulting people.
2. You ridicule me because I am arguing with people on the net.

You called me a f@cking idiot in you previous post and are now arguing with me on the web.

Do you see now why I post that?
You clearly have the I.Q of an insect to come out with moronic arguments like this.

koneko

I never called you an idiot, try checking WHO posts messages before making statements like that, you know the part on the left of someone's post? With the name, and the little picture? You see that? Good.

You just proved my point again, apparantly I have the IQ of an insect because I question why you have to insult people continuously. You might want to try discussing something instead of insulting people, you'd get more respect that way. I don't think anyone is going to respect your opinion (as you asked for), or you, if you continue to behave like a child.

Keyzer

koneko wrote:

Can you ever reply to a post without trying to insult people? Seriously....

Now you have just completely undermined yourself and contradicted yourself.

1. You critcise me for insulting people.
2. You ridicule me because I am arguing with people on the net.

You called me a f@cking idiot in you previous post and are now arguing with me on the web. You clearly have the I.Q of an insect to come out with moronic arguments like this.

Do you see now why I posted that comment?
The level of debate on these forums is childish to say the least.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Keyzer wrote:

Now you have just completely undermined yourself and contradicted yourself.

1. You critcise me for insulting people.
2. You ridicule me because I am arguing with people on the net.

You called me a f@cking idiot in you previous post and are now arguing with me on the web. You clearly have the I.Q of an insect to come out with moronic arguments like this.

Do you see now why I posted that comment?
The level of debate on these forums is childish to say the least.

hehe this guy just gets better and better

Keyzer

Enough, this is futile...
I love goths, they rock, your all great...
Argument over.... I lose, you win... there you go...

p.s apologies for mixing your post up with somone elses...

Lemming

Sorry guys .. I just _had_ to post this for you all. Kezyer unsurprisingly left me negative rep. But the commentary with it is priceless:

Why post personal attacks? Why post complete nonsense. I post my opinion yet your saying I dont have one? Is that what you telling me? Do you have an I.Q higher than an ant?

Lets go through this line by line shall we then Kezyer, since you obviously don't have much of the vaunted IQ that you proclaim the rest of us don't have.

Why post personal attacks?

because you are what I claimed you are, for reasons that you showed up nicely and I will elaborate on further below. Is stating the obvious a personal attack though?

Why post complete nonsense. I post my opinion yet your saying I dont have one? Is that what you telling me?

Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. You claim you have opinion "a", then proceed to do the actions/thoughts attributable with opinion "b" and then continue to claim that you are opinion "a". And then proceed to ridicule those who debate against you. You *have* no opinion worth considering Kezyer since you continually show by your actions that you have none of any substance. And yet you continue to argue with your very, very flawed logic.

Do yu have an I.Q higher than an ant?

Child. If you want to be so simplistic, allow me to give you a revelation....

I have a higher IQ than you evidently.

Keyzer

Lemming wrote:

Sorry guys .. I just _had_ to post this for you all. Kezyer unsurprisingly left me negative rep. But the commentary with it is priceless:



Lets go through this line by line shall we then Kezyer, since you obviously don't have much of the vaunted IQ that you proclaim the rest of us don't have.



because you are what I claimed you are, for reasons that you showed up nicely and I will elaborate on further below. Is stating the obvious a personal attack though?



Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. You claim you have opinion "a", then proceed to do the actions/thoughts attributable with opinion "b" and then continue to claim that you are opinion "a". And then proceed to ridicule those who debate against you. You *have* no opinion worth considering Kezyer since you continually show by your actions that you have none of any substance. And yet you continue to argue with your very, very flawed logic.



Child. If you want to be so simplistic, allow me to give you a revelation....

I have a higher IQ than you evidently.

That was a truly ingenious way of explaining yourself Lemming, really was, where did you learn to express yourself so well? Evidently you are a genius and have much to offer the world in terms with your mental powers.

You refer to me as a child? lets see, this is from you now so dont get it mixed up - I asked you why you called me a f@cking idiot and your resounding, emphatic, super intelligent response was, wait for it, the trumpets are sounding, "Because you are".... WOW... what an explanation!!!
Thats mind boggling stuff. I am genuinley in awe of your powers of intelligence which are, as you state yourself, evidently exponentially larger than mine and everyone else it seems.

Your right, all those posts stated no opinion at all.

I'm finished with this now, bye all...

Fysh

Keyzer wrote:

In response to Fyshs post -

Thats my opinion mate, I think the modern Gothic "clothing" sense is terrible and pathetic. The thread asked for peoples opinions and I gave mine.
I am entitled to my opinion as are you, so respect my opinion as I respect yours.

Now, as I repeat myself for 5 millionth time for all you people out there who cannot understand simple english, just because I think someones dress sense is ridiculous does not mean I hate them or that I am xenophobic.

You evidently missed the part of my post where I quoted you, verbatim, in this thread, repeatedly stating that all goths were losers. That's going far further than saying you don't like their clothing style. Stop trying to deny it.

Furthermore, you don't seem to have much respect for anyone else's opinion on here, I've seen at least four different posts in which you accuse people of having a miniscule IQ based mostly on the fact that they disagree with you.

For what it's worth, since nobody else has mentioned it: I don't particularly care that you don't like the goth style. I'm not a huge fan of it myself when it's overdone. What I'm getting at is your earlier comments in this thread and your constant defense of the attitude presented therein.

Keyzer wrote:

We are talking about the clothes people wear (makeup included) here.
We are not talking about religion, race, ethnicicity or anything else. Goths are not a race, not a religion and not an ethnic group, so wake up and smell the coffee Fysh. Your talking complete rubbish if thats what you think. And if that is what what you think then you've got some serious problems.

Err, no. As I pointed out, there is in fact an entire gothic style which extends far beyond fashion, and your comments in this thread (apart from your numerous posts where you try to deny having said anything offensive, despite the evidence) have been broad enough to attack it in its entirety, rather than just saying, right at the start, "I think the goth fashion looks silly". The fact that you're assuming I'm a goth just because I point out that you're talking crap simply highlights that you don't seem to see further than a fashion style when it comes to goths, somewhat denying your assertion that you don't have a problem with them.

Keyzer wrote:

The fact that you even mention comparing Gothism to a Race/Religion and compare my dislike of Goth Style and my opinion of Goths to racism infuriates me. Its a stupid, idiotic, ridiculous argument to make which subsequently leads me to the conclusion that you, and as much as I dislike making this comment, are an imbecile.

I don't really care that you think I'm an imbecile - you've repeatedly made comments deriding an entire cultural movement and are now trying to claim that, simply because this movement is not associated with a religion or ethnic group, that it's somehow ok and that its members are denied the equal rights that other groups are afforded. I think you'll find that, of the two of us, you're the one talking crap. At a loud volume, in a public space.

Keyzer wrote:

I certainly think, from all the replies in this thread, that you "Goths" are very sensitive bunch of people who are not open to someone stating there negative opinion concerning your dress sense. I also think you need to grow up and get a life....

I'm not a goth, and I'm not speaking as one. I have a couple of goth friends, who tend not to bother getting into arguments like this when confronted with comments like yours because its a waste of time, but I don't see the point in letting you spout a load of nonsense and not call you on it. You need to grow up if you think that you can learn everything you need to know about someone from how they dress; or do you genuinely not see just how open to manipulation that leaves you?

Keyzer

Fysh wrote:

You evidently missed the part of my post where I quoted you, verbatim, in this thread, repeatedly stating that all goths were losers. That's going far further than saying you don't like their clothing style. Stop trying to deny it.

Furthermore, you don't seem to have much respect for anyone else's opinion on here, I've seen at least four different posts in which you accuse people of having a miniscule IQ based mostly on the fact that they disagree with you.

For what it's worth, since nobody else has mentioned it: I don't particularly care that you don't like the goth style. I'm not a huge fan of it myself when it's overdone. What I'm getting at is your earlier comments in this thread and your constant defense of the attitude presented therein.



Err, no. As I pointed out, there is in fact an entire gothic style which extends far beyond fashion, and your comments in this thread (apart from your numerous posts where you try to deny having said anything offensive, despite the evidence) have been broad enough to attack it in its entirety, rather than just saying, right at the start, "I think the goth fashion looks silly". The fact that you're assuming I'm a goth just because I point out that you're talking crap simply highlights that you don't seem to see further than a fashion style when it comes to goths, somewhat denying your assertion that you don't have a problem with them.



I don't really care that you think I'm an imbecile - you've repeatedly made comments deriding an entire cultural movement and are now trying to claim that, simply because this movement is not associated with a religion or ethnic group, that it's somehow ok and that its members are denied the equal rights that other groups are afforded. I think you'll find that, of the two of us, you're the one talking crap. At a loud volume, in a public space.



I'm not a goth, and I'm not speaking as one. I have a couple of goth friends, who tend not to bother getting into arguments like this when confronted with comments like yours because its a waste of time, but I don't see the point in letting you spout a load of nonsense and not call you on it. You need to grow up if you think that you can learn everything you need to know about someone from how they dress; or do you genuinely not see just how open to manipulation that leaves you?

Dude, I had to respond to this...
I am getting a pain in my arse repeating this. The guy asked for an opinion.
I gave mine. I said I think Goth dress sense is terrible and that I think they are losers. So what? big god damn deal? why does everyone give toss?
Its one persons opinion.

Who said anything about denying people of equal rights?
Where the hell is this coming from?

I am only replying as you are the only person really putting any effort into your posts and I did regret calling you an imbecile in the first place.
But I think you are taking this way to far and getting way too deep.
Human Rights? Gothic Architecture etc.? Racism? This is getting absurd, it really is, laughable in some cases.

Can you please go back to the first post and read what the guy asked?
Did he not ask for opinions on Goths?

Jim

Right Keyzer, you keep saying everyone should respect your opinion, then wtf shouldn't you respect peoples decision to wear what they want?

Ah Keyzer, I'm not sensing a little hint of jealousy am I? maybe its you that wants to ditch off your sensible wear, (I presume you wear sensible clothes, sorry if you don't) and cover yourself in Black lipstick, White facepaint and run screaming through the town in the dead of night, clutching your full length Leather coat, trying to get home to Channel 4 where they're showing the crow. again. and its your 15th time watching it. again. And to get you in the mood, you listen to the cure. again.

Just remember, there's a little goth in all of us :cool:

Keyzer

Jimeatsmenu wrote:

Right Keyzer, you keep saying everyone should respect your opinion, then wtf shouldn't you respect peoples decision to wear what they want?

This is exaclty what I am talking about in regards ridiculous posts.

I do respect peoples decisions to wear what they want, that doesnt mean I have to like it, this is what an opinion is. I have repeatedly stated that just because I dont like the clothes goths wear doesnt mean I have a problem with goths as human beings.

I mean, for christsakes, will you read the posts prior to posting.